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posted by Fnord666 on Monday July 27 2020, @03:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the and-they-need-to-actually-fit dept.

Home-made face masks likely need at least 2 layers to curb COVID-19 spread:

Home-made cloth face masks likely need a minimum of two layers, and preferably three, to prevent the dispersal of viral droplets from the nose and mouth that are associated with the spread of COVID-19, indicates a video case study published online in the journal Thorax.

[...] A team of Australian researchers therefore compared the effectiveness of single and double-layer cloth face coverings (175 g/m² cotton fabric, with a thread count of 170/ inch) with a 3-ply surgical face mask (Bao Thach) at reducing droplet spread.

[...] The video recording showed that the 3-ply surgical face mask was the most effective at reducing airborne droplet dispersal, although even a single layer cloth face covering reduced the droplet spread from speaking.

But a double layer covering was better than a single layer in reducing the droplet spread from coughing and sneezing, the recording showed.

This is just one case, added to which several other factors contribute to the effectiveness of cloth face masks, note the researchers. These include the type of material used, design and fit, as well as the frequency of washing.

Nevertheless, based on their observations, a home made cloth mask with at least two layers is preferable to a single layer mask, they say, adding: "Guidelines on home-made cloth masks should stipulate multiple layers."

And they emphasise: "There is a need for more evidence to inform safer cloth mask design, and countries should ensure adequate manufacturing or procurement of surgical masks."

Journal Reference:
Prateek Bahl, Shovon Bhattacharjee, Charitha de Silva, et al. Face coverings and mask to minimise droplet dispersion and aerosolisation: a video case study [$], Thorax (DOI: 10.1136/thoraxjnl-2020-215748)


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  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @04:15PM (86 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @04:15PM (#1027151)

    This is no straw man. People in the great outdoors will yell at you from 20 feet away before passing by you (closest distance 8 feet away, max time 0.2 seconds) about having to wear a mask because the governor said so. All in an otherwise empty park. No knowledge of real risks. They think the mask is a magic talisman.

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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @05:07PM (74 children)

    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @05:07PM (#1027175)

    This is no straw man. People in the great outdoors will yell at you from 20 feet away before passing by you (closest distance 8 feet away, max time 0.2 seconds) about having to wear a mask because the governor said so.

    We also had a terrifying increase in COVID cases immediately after an avalanche of anti-mask dipshittery. You're angry at the wrong group.

    --
    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:14PM (43 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:14PM (#1027180)

      Yes, those BLM riots didn't help.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @05:18PM (39 children)

        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @05:18PM (#1027183)

        Yes, those BLM riots didn't help.

        Actually the protests mostly didn't cause much of a spread, largely because the protestors wore masks. Thank you for bringing this up, it really supports my point!

        --
        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:27PM (13 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:27PM (#1027190)

          So then social distancing is unnecessary as long as we have a bandana over our mouth?

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @05:33PM (12 children)

            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @05:33PM (#1027196)

            So then social distancing is unnecessary as long as we have a bandana over our mouth?

            No, for the same reason airbags didn't mean removal of seatbelts. Different protections for different situations.

            --
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            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:42PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:42PM (#1027206)

              That's what the supposed media claims. There is more than one media, all of Congress tunes into the classified news where they say don't worry about masks.

              • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @06:06PM (2 children)

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @06:06PM (#1027221)
                Ok. No prob. Science has provided you ways of testing and verifying the effectiveness of masks and social distancing yourself.
                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @06:25PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @06:25PM (#1027228)

                  The ideal mask lets in germs from others but blocks the outgoing germs. That way you keep your own immune system strong while not posing a threat to anyone.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:02PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:02PM (#1028134)

                    Except when the disease in question kills you or interrupts your ability to function in a way you can't afford, or you are already immunocompromised for any number of reasons, or you realize that 'ideal' is not possible.
                    Let's just say you're wrong, OK?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @10:15PM (7 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @10:15PM (#1027342)

              So youre point being that the protests shouldnt have been allowed to happen? Like how we have seat belts and airbags?

              • (Score: 3, Touché) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @11:00PM (6 children)

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @11:00PM (#1027368)
                I wasn't aware that protests in the United States could be disallowed. ;)
                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:34PM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:34PM (#1027393)

                  I wasnt aware the us could dictate what type of businesses and gathers could be allowed at a whim

                  • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:03PM (4 children)

                    by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:03PM (#1027644)

                    Public safety is not "at a whim".

                    And the U.S. has been in "a" state of emergency since 1974/2001, which does let the government ignore certain rules, apparently.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]

                    --
                    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @07:34PM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @07:34PM (#1028249)

                      So the protests should not have been allowed or endorsed as a matter of public safety. Yet they were. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who is being discriminated against. Public safety as a battle cry is the same as think of the children, and i find it just as unacceptable as i would any rhtoric used to deny basic human rights.

                      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday July 29 2020, @08:34PM (2 children)

                        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday July 29 2020, @08:34PM (#1028281)

                        So the protests should not have been allowed or endorsed as a matter of public safety.

                        I mean...I guess you can make that argument if you want to; I didn't. I just pointed out that "widespread contagion and people dying" is a fairly good reason, not "at a whim." Somebody upthread pointed out that outlawing protests is actually unconstitutional.

                        --

                        Public safety as a battle cry is the same as think of the children

                        No, "think of the children" is the narrower, stupider application of Public Safety.

                        My right to swing my fists around ends at your nose, as the saying goes. Feel free to apply this to me going up to you and coughing in your face.

                        --

                        Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who is being discriminated against.

                        I don't see how this relates to the topic at hand. Are you sure "discrimination" is the word you're looking for?

                        the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

                        Telling the people they can't peacably assemble isn't discrimination unless you only tell certain groups of people; otherwise it's just a violation of rights.

                        --

                        and i find it just as unacceptable as i would any rhetoric used to deny basic human rights.

                        People are literally dying from Covid, and you can't just suck it up and wear a mask when you go outside occasionally?

                        --
                        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @01:36AM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @01:36AM (#1028413)

                          Plenty of evidence and examples of some groupd being allowed to assrmble and others not. And people literally die of alot of things...if we used that rhetoric for everything that killed people, we wouldnt exactly be living free lives, would we? Just suck it up and wear a mask is not justification for law, nor is the science behind wearing bandana over your mouth preventing the spread of infectious airborn disease, yet thats what we have in some states.

                          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:53PM

                            by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:53PM (#1028658)

                            Plenty of evidence and examples of some groups being allowed to assemble and others not.

                            So how about you provide any?

                            And people literally die of a lot of things...if we used that rhetoric for everything that killed people, we wouldn't exactly be living free lives, would we?

                            These are hardly normal circumstances. If widespread plague were a common occurrence when they wrote the Constitution, it would've been in there.

                            nor is the science behind wearing bandana over your mouth preventing the spread of infectious airborne disease [justification for law]

                            So are you saying you don't believe that wearing masks does anything, or you admit that it does but don't think these minor inconveniences are worth the public safety benefit?

                            Normally I have a very high bar for what constitutes an acceptable invasion of our rights--widespread contagion is basically the only exception, because in the absence of a cure, there are very few ways to effectively fight it. It may not be strictly legal to take certain actions to do so, but pragmatism demands them if the situation gets bad enough.

                            --
                            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by slinches on Monday July 27 2020, @05:28PM (24 children)

          by slinches (5049) on Monday July 27 2020, @05:28PM (#1027191)

          protests mostly didn't cause much of a spread

          Do you have any data that indicates this? How does it separate out the protests from confounding variables?

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:38PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:38PM (#1027201)

            In the video I watched the virus is basically a thermal blob. That won't spread during protesting due to all the turbulence, only during calm activities like shopping, eating, praying, etc.

          • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @06:01PM (19 children)

            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @06:01PM (#1027220)

            Do you have any data that indicates this? How does it separate out the protests from confounding variables?

            Proof of what didn't happen is hard to come by, testing is still questionable and Contact Tracing is not anywhere near capacity. (In other words you're asking a very good question.) Another complication is that people aren't getting tested until they get symptoms another is that contact-tracing is under-performing right now. Hard to determine, right? This is why most places are reporting "...no evidence of COVID spread during protests...." as opposed to "...definitely no COVID cases spread by protests!" (I have seen one claiming Tom Hanks is a pedophile...)

            Let's ask this question: What would we expect to see if the protests did spread COVID? I'd expect to see: "Entire PD shut down due to COVID..." or "...detention center shut down due to covid!" or ... "here's a facebook post about protestors changing tact after being a number of infections!" Remember that this is all during a period where the protests are under extreme scrutiny. I'm actually kinda surprised I haven't seen fake stories of protests spawning COVID hotspots.

            Now if you're saying: "That's hardly conclusive", I agree. Lack of proper testing alone makes that statement true. I check up on this every couple of days in case new data comes along. I live near a protest hotspot and my wife is high-risk, so this is a *very* important issue to me and not one I can afford to be wrong about. When this first started in June I was worried after the protests rolled through we'd then have a bunch of sick people in our neighborhood, but, thankfully, that didn't happen. Even the local businesses are consistently manned by familiar faces.

            Don't stop asking this question! Tomorrow I could be wrong.

            --
            🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @07:02PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @07:02PM (#1027244)

              The BML riots more directly coincide to the spike of cases. Yet, you only lay blame to one group that were 1) fewer peopler 2) less sustained 3) in some instances stayed in vehicles (before June the back to work protests).

              Why would detention centers shut down when anyone arrested for rioting is let go? Police have been calling in the Blue Flu.

              Most infected are asymptomatic. Those riots could have spread it and most would not have known. Yet, we do see a spike following the riots.

              • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @07:16PM

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @07:16PM (#1027252)

                Yet, you only lay blame to one group...

                Heh. What group is that?

                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:32PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:32PM (#1027290)

                Except the spikes in cases aren't in the same areas where the protests and riots have occurred in the highest numbers. If you naively correlate U.S. numbers overall it can appear that there is a strong one, but not once you factor in geography or the lag nature of cases and other indicators.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @10:19PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @10:19PM (#1027346)

              The readon you didnt see news of the protests, imho, is that there is a political bias surrounding media narrative regarding what causes "spikes". Churches and barbers arent ok, but ghetto parties and protests are. Can you refute or expound?

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @10:51PM

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @10:51PM (#1027362)

                The readon you didnt see news of the protests, imho, is that there is a political bias surrounding media narrative regarding what causes "spikes".

                Media bias means you won't hear about it on a given news network or channel, it doesn't mean they can stop the info from reaching the world. If the info's there, someone will report it. Again, this is ALL under intense scrutiny.

                Oh, and I don't know what a 'ghetto party' is, can't help you there.

                Churches and barbers arent ok, but ghetto parties and protests are.

                I'm unaware of any media outlet actually saying "Protests are okay!" I don't know if you're in the USA or not but we have to be very careful here about saying "Don't protest" especially when the entire point of the protest is that people are getting KILLED by the police. You've got a double-whammy of Constitutional Freedom and people actively stopping people from being killed. As opposed to ... say... protesting to get a haircut. If that part's not being made clear to you then you may want to expand your news sources.

                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:34PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:34PM (#1027623)

                That's odd. Churches *and* barbers are both open in NYC.

                Where do you live?

            • (Score: 2) by slinches on Monday July 27 2020, @10:41PM (11 children)

              by slinches (5049) on Monday July 27 2020, @10:41PM (#1027356)

              Let's ask this question: What would we expect to see if the protests did spread COVID? I'd expect to see: "Entire PD shut down due to COVID..." or "...detention center shut down due to covid!" or ... "here's a facebook post about protestors changing tact after being a number of infections!

              Reality not meeting your expectations of what might happen isn't exactly rock solid evidence, especially when your expectations are a bit hyperbolic. There's no reason to think that police departments would shut down or that protesters would even be aware that they were infected at one vs anywhere else they've been. The only way to know for sure would be to do a study that tested random individuals which includes a sufficient number of protesters to be a statistically relevant cohort. As far as I'm aware, there isn't one of those published yet.

              • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @11:04PM (10 children)

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @11:04PM (#1027370)

                There's no reason to think that police departments would shut down or that protesters would even be aware that they were infected at one vs anywhere else they've been.

                You know more than a month has passed, right?

                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                • (Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:18PM (9 children)

                  by slinches (5049) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:18PM (#1027587)

                  You know that not everyone exposed will get sick and most who do don't have severe enough symptoms to seek treatment, right?

                  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:46PM (8 children)

                    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:46PM (#1027600)
                    Is there some reason protestors are unique in that regard?
                    --
                    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                    • (Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:09PM (7 children)

                      by slinches (5049) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:09PM (#1027651)

                      Nope. You are the one suggesting that protests are uniquely immune from spreading the disease. I was just pointing out that your expectations of how it spreads seems to be informed by watching zombie apocalypse movies.

                      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:04PM (6 children)

                        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:04PM (#1027739)

                        Nope. You are the one suggesting that protests are uniquely immune from spreading the disease.

                        Nope, never said that. What I DID said they wore masks and that they were mostly effective.

                        I was just pointing out that your expectations of how it spreads seems to be informed by watching zombie apocalypse movies.

                        You were attempting to discredit the concept but failing to take into consideration that they were still a large group of people going out and bumping into other people. So either the protestors have a unique ability to hide their illness or we have to take the suggestion seriously (not necessarily believe it, just consider it...) that by and large they didn't get sick.

                        --
                        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                        • (Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:44PM (5 children)

                          by slinches (5049) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:44PM (#1027747)

                          You keep stating that because "by and large they didn't get sick" it is due to something the protesters did that makes their gatherings less susceptible to spreading the disease than other large gatherings. There is no evidence for that assertion. It's just as likely that is just how it works in large gatherings. Most won't get sick, some will but it won't be immediately obvious that they were infected at the gathering vs anywhere else they have been. Unless we have study data that can determine the difference in infection rates between those who only go out for essentials and those who have been attending protests and other gatherings of various sizes and demographic profiles, there's no way to know what the relative risks of these activities really are.

                          • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:19AM (4 children)

                            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:19AM (#1027880)

                            You keep stating that because "by and large they didn't get sick" it is due to something the protesters did that makes their gatherings less susceptible to spreading the disease than other large gatherings. There is no evidence for that assertion.

                            Heh. We know they wore masks. We know there's no evidence they got sick. We have good reason to believe evidence of them getting sick would have been abundant. We know masks work and why. We know lotsa other gatherings happened without masks and there was a corresponding spike. We know more than ample time has passed for credible direct AND indirect evidence to come to light. The odds are pretty good the study you want has been done by now, try Googling around. (I'm wearing my mask in the mean-time.)

                            Unless we have study data that can determine the difference in infection rates between those who only go out for essentials and those who have been attending protests and other gatherings of various sizes and demographic profiles, there's no way to know what the relative risks of these activities really are.

                            🙄 Gee, that's a familiar sentiment.

                            Well at least I can say your posts on this topic have been far more rational than what I typically get: "Why is it okay for those looters* to be out but I can't go to the beauty salon, church, or a number of other places we've heard tragic tales of that somehow won't apply to me?!" Assuming you're not doing something stupid like refusing to wear a mask in public I think you've got a pretty healthy attitude. We don't actually disagree that much.


                            * ...or 'rioters' or some other term that is both derogatory and also doesn't point directly at the reason for the protest cos saving lives is inconvenient to the narrative.

                            --
                            🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                            • (Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday July 29 2020, @04:09AM (3 children)

                              by slinches (5049) on Wednesday July 29 2020, @04:09AM (#1027993)

                              I agree, we aren't that far off, but this is the key point of contention:

                              We have good reason to believe evidence of them getting sick would have been abundant.

                              We don't have anything of the sort. The number of people protesting isn't large enough to make a big obvious impact on the population level numbers, which are all we have to go by. The signal is easily lost in the noise of essential workers going about their daily lives, large numbers of smaller gatherings and those who are choosing to ignore CDC and local guidelines.

                              I just want us all to make informed, rational decisions about how we go about our lives. That means understanding that going to any gathering is a personal risk and that you are also taking that risk for everyone in your community. That doesn't mean that I think protesters are reckless or that it's okay to go out to bars and party. Both may or may not be a reasonable risk, depending on the circumstances of the particular individuals involved and who they may be exposing to that risk. We all have the freedom to make these decisions for ourselves and the responsibility to make them wisely. So making sure that we have a sound and objective basis for making those decisions is of paramount importance.

                              • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:19PM (2 children)

                                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:19PM (#1028117)
                                I think you're being a lot more rational than I am. I'd give you excuses but the important thing here is that you're right. I just feel like a number of people are slipping way from rational thought and devolving into ... well sports teams really. It's weighing on me.

                                Thanks for being civil, thanks for being insightful, and thanks for being patient with me.
                                --
                                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                                • (Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday July 29 2020, @06:37PM (1 child)

                                  by slinches (5049) on Wednesday July 29 2020, @06:37PM (#1028216)

                                  Thanks, I appreciate that you recognize that I'm trying to be rational (not that I always succeed). It's exceptionally difficult these days to have a well-reasoned and meaningful discussion. The level of emotional manipulation by most media sources is insane and it feels so much better to have your opinions validated or contradictory ones invalidated than it does to recognize the flaws and gaps in your own views. The sports team analogy is a good one and recognizing what your "home team" is is important. My brother pointed me to a good series of articles about what's been happening to public discourse and why that sports team mentality is so forecful right now that are really relatable here: https://waitbutwhy.com/2019/08/story-of-us.html. [waitbutwhy.com] It's a little long winded, but I think it has to be to approach the subject without pushing too many people away.

                                  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Friday July 31 2020, @06:19PM

                                    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 31 2020, @06:19PM (#1029426)

                                    I am so sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I wanted to let you know that I've started reading that link and you're right, it is interesting! I'm only a chapter and a half in right now but I wanted to mention to you that i've been doing a little hobby'ist creative writing lately and I think that's the reason I'm finding it a fun read! I appreciate your time and have a good weekend.

                                    --
                                    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday July 27 2020, @11:02PM

              by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @11:02PM (#1027369) Journal

              Yeah. That two week delay before signs appear is a bugger. Particularly since many are contagious during that period.

              --
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          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 27 2020, @10:50PM

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 27 2020, @10:50PM (#1027361) Journal

            They waited 3 weeks and there wasn't a spike, basically.

            Research Determines Protests Did Not Cause Spike In Coronavirus Cases [forbes.com]

            However, researchers found “no evidence that urban protests reignited Covid-19 case growth during the more than three weeks following protest onset.”

            In fact, they determined that, based on cellphone data, “cities which had protests saw an increase in social distancing behavior for the overall population relative to cities that did not,” leading to “modest evidence of a small longer-run case growth decline.”

            Study in question: BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS, SOCIAL DISTANCING, AND COVID-19 [nber.org]

          • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:22AM

            by dry (223) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:22AM (#1027449) Journal

            Lots of protests where I am, still around 30 cases a day, couple of deaths a week and those cases are mostly tied to parties, bars and today, a blueberry packing plant.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @04:37AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @04:37AM (#1027502)

            Do you have any data that indicates this? How does it separate out the protests from confounding variables?

            Yep. Here you go. [nyc.gov].

            There have been protests in NYC every day since the end of May. And cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been declining/steady throughout that eight week period.

            What's more, NYC is among the most densely populated areas in the world and NYC has gone from phase 1 to phase 4 [nyc.gov] of reopening (with a couple important caveats -- no indoor restaurant dining, gyms still closed) during that time, it's clear that protesting isn't the primary factor in rising case rates.

            I hypothesize that spending extended periods doing indoor stuff like dining, bars, nightclubs, gyms and other, similar stuff has more to do with it than protesting outdoors.

            Do you have any data that contradicts this?

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:45AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:45AM (#1027475)

        The funny thing is when I see the BLM protests and I seen a Youtube video of and hear from others about many of the posts on Twitter/Facebook/social media advocating the BLM movement so many of those rioters and social media posts aren't even coming from African Americans. Many of them are even white leftists that have hijacked the BLM movement into something it's not and even some (some of which are strongly left leaning) African Americans I have talked to disagree with what they are doing. In fact I would go so far as to say that I can't really think of many African Americans that agree with the vandalism that the rioters are committing and many have expressed strong disdain for it. Some of the rioters that have been caught burning cars and burning things aren't even African American.

        The leftists are trying to take BLM and make it about promoting their own agenda and there are multiple agendas. Some of them may be the sovereign citizen agenda (which isn't really a leftist agenda? Who knows). Some of them may be to get rid of Trump and elect Biden (this is especially true of the MSM. BTW, I'm not defending Trump, I think there is plenty of legitimate criticisms against him. I also don't like Biden). Some of them may be they want more welfare and government programs. They claim they want the government to give hand outs in the name of compensating the African American community for what the whites have historically done to them but many of the beneficiaries that are advocating for more government handouts are in fact not African Americans and they want the handouts for themselves.

        The sad thing is the victims in all this mess are the African Americans. The non-African Americans that have hijacked the BLM movement and started riots, burned cars, vandalized buildings, etc... all in the name of fighting against the victimization of African Americans have in fact victimized the African Americans by making them look bad and making them look like they are the ones responsible for these criminal acts when in fact many African Americans are against these actions and only wanted to peacefully protest their true cause. By making them look bad it makes it even harder for the African Americans to get their message across. The leftists that are using the BLM movement to push an alternate agenda should truly be ashamed of themselves because you are not helping the African American community make their point. You are harming them for your own gain.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:48AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:48AM (#1027477)

          You are harming them for your own agenda. You are harming them to promote an agenda that has little to do with what the African American community is actually protesting.

        • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:00AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:00AM (#1027481)

          "The sad thing is"

          Sad and ironic ...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:35PM (#1027197)

      The problem with that statement is, in your words, terrifying. Media is designed to generate revenue and viewership, and playing on a fear response is one of the most powerful ways to do so. Ergo, what people consume as news is designed with the intention of generating fear and uncertainty. Ergo, some of what many people take to be whole cloth truth is not. And personally, i doubt that the mask is the cure all we are being led to believe. But people shouldnt hack all over the buffet line either

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:54PM (21 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @05:54PM (#1027214)

      no, all you bootlicking slaves are the fucking problem. i'm not against anyone wearing a mask. i would actually prefer to wear one. I'm against the masses helping to enforce mandates that violates everyone's freedoms. don't give me that collectivist bullshit about me being responsible for nature and your compromised immune system either. die already.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @06:12PM (2 children)

        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @06:12PM (#1027223)

        no, all you bootlicking slaves are the fucking problem. ... I'm against the masses helping to enforce mandates that violates everyone's freedoms.

        Actually if there were more 'bootlicking slaves' earlier then you wouldn't have had to endure this strange group-delusion about your freedoms being violated.

        --
        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:23PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:23PM (#1027284)

          In Jan/Feb the "bootlicking slaves" were saying closing the borders, etc was racist. Instead we should hug chinese tourists. Do not listen to the media.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:31PM (#1027288)
            > In Jan/Feb the "bootlicking slaves" were saying closing the borders, etc was racist ... Regulating who can and cannot enter is not 'closing the border'. > Do not listen to the media. Yeah cos the news source telling you your freedoms are being infringed is working out sooOOooo well for you.
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 27 2020, @06:55PM (17 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 27 2020, @06:55PM (#1027242) Journal

        Yes, being forced to wear a piece of cloth is TYRRANNY!!!

        That's why I demand the freedom to display my balls in all public spaces. Pants mandates violate everyone's FREEDOM!!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:16PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:16PM (#1027281)

          That's why I demand the freedom to display my balls in all public spaces.

          All you need to do is self-identify as a woman.

          Then if anyone challenges you, call that person a bigot and proclaim that you are being oppressed.

          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 27 2020, @08:42PM (1 child)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 27 2020, @08:42PM (#1027294) Journal

            Women are required to wear TWO pieces of cloth. DOUBLE TYRRANNY!!!!!!

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:47AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:47AM (#1027518)

              Yeah, but they don't have to hide their balls which is what you were complaining about.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by helel on Monday July 27 2020, @09:02PM (13 children)

          by helel (2949) on Monday July 27 2020, @09:02PM (#1027298)

          You joke but anti-nudity laws are a clear example of violating our rights without any justification. "Your rights end where my nose begins," as people like to say. You may not like seeing my naked body but, fundamentally, it's my body and should be my choice on how to present it in public.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 27 2020, @09:29PM (11 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 27 2020, @09:29PM (#1027318) Journal

            And yet, all those conservatives oppose the Free the Nipple stuff.

            It's almost like they don't actually believe a goddamn thing they're saying!

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Monday July 27 2020, @10:01PM (10 children)

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday July 27 2020, @10:01PM (#1027336)

              It's almost like they don't actually believe a goddamn thing they're saying!

              They don't, but they have also managed to train a whole bunch of Americans to hold mutually contradictory positions and swear by both of them.

              It's weird, but propaganda is powerful.

              • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:31PM (8 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:31PM (#1027390)

                There is such a thing as common decency. Apparently there are some people who dont have it and thats why theres anti nudity laws. I see the parallel but i cant equate the mask thing. Its more restrictive and a hindrance to communication and living than clothes are. Efficacy is also questionable. And theoretically people arent as uncomfortable seeing a face than a cock and balls, and im pretty sure thats not a conservative only viewpoint when out in public.

                • (Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:59AM (7 children)

                  by sjames (2882) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:59AM (#1027545) Journal

                  I would say that at least trying not to give people COVID during a pandemic falls under common decency.

                  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:17PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:17PM (#1027833)

                    I would say that at least trying not to give people COVID during a pandemic falls under common decency.

                    Which is done by keeping distance from people you do not need be near to (the "social distancing") and not going in public when having any respiratory symptoms (and definitely not when tested to actually have COVID). This is sufficient, as Latvia's example amply demonstrates - by having, and continuing to have, much better results than in all the neighboring countries that had the lockdowns and the mandatory masks (and than in most countries in the world that had those).
                    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ [statista.com]

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @01:38AM (5 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @01:38AM (#1028416)

                    Do you truly believe wearing a thin layer of porous clith over your face does anything at all? Wow

                    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:27AM (4 children)

                      by sjames (2882) on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:27AM (#1028436) Journal

                      Yes. This was discovered in the mid 19th century and is why surgeons wear masks. Do try to keep up!

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:49AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:49AM (#1028551)

                        https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy [rcreader.com]

                        Also, bacteria are why surgeons wear masks. Little different there guy. Do try to keep up.

                        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday July 31 2020, @05:29PM

                          by sjames (2882) on Friday July 31 2020, @05:29PM (#1029383) Journal

                          You (or another AC) trotted that one out already and it got shot down since none of the cherry picked studies were actually relevant to the current situation. Try to read more critically. Details matter.

                          There is nothing specific to bacteria about masks, it's pretty much anything that might hitch a ride on droplets of saliva and mucous.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @12:17PM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @12:17PM (#1028559)

                        Also, see the article headline. See congressional hearings. Take mask off to talk, defeat whatever imaginary purpose it had to begin with. See restaurant protocals, wear mask through door, take off to eat, no purpose. Itsfundamentally stupud and should be seen to be a farce to any rationally minded semi educated individual that doesnt believe in magical talismans or authoritarian compliance indicators. Its bullshit, and anyone with a scientifically literate mind can see that. I dont know if youre being desingenious or uneducated and stupud, but it doesnt mattet. This site, like most, is heavily biased as far as moderation and narrative is concerned. Yall are lucky people with thinking minds still care to comment under these circumstances. The studies cited in the link on the previous reply show the lack of efficacy of even surgical masks regarding airborn respuratory infections. Let alone wearing a ratty unwashed bandana or knit scarf over the face. The mask thing is obviously nothing more than a compliance/submission indicator, and i find it hilarious how stupud, uneducated, and submissive to your masters backing current policy makes you all look.

                        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday July 31 2020, @05:38PM

                          by sjames (2882) on Friday July 31 2020, @05:38PM (#1029389) Journal

                          The first one makes sense if you consider that the person speaking is at a fair distance from the audience and that it was a necessary compromise to get the more paleolithic congress critters on-board at all.

                          The second is mostly perpetrated by other political critters that want to open all the things yesterday and loss of life be damned. For the record, I oppose the mask exception for restaurants exactly because it does make a mockery of appropriate precautions.

                          As for the rest, you sound like you're about 30 seconds away from going on a rant about modern people using little boxes they hold up to their ears to talk to the devil.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:00PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:00PM (#1027564)

                It's weird, but propaganda is powerful.

                Nah, more of a case of Americans having a feeble mind.

          • (Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:44PM

            by Oakenshield (4900) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:44PM (#1027577)

            "Your rights end where my nose begins," as people like to say. You may not like seeing my naked body but, fundamentally, it's my body and should be my choice on how to present it in public.

            You need to spend some time browsing People of Walmart. If that isn't assault on the eyes I don't know what is. Do you really want to see any of that nekkid?

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by FatPhil on Monday July 27 2020, @07:21PM (6 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 27 2020, @07:21PM (#1027255) Homepage
      Yes, the problem you're talking about is *dipshittery*. Not being out alone in wild free open spaces without a mask. Can you really not tell the difference? If you can't, *you're* the problem.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @07:29PM (5 children)

        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @07:29PM (#1027259)

        Can you really not tell the difference? If you can't, *you're* the problem.

        Yeah? What problem specifically am I a part of?

        --
        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by FatPhil on Monday July 27 2020, @08:13PM (4 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 27 2020, @08:13PM (#1027276) Homepage
          The problem of having a vote. As if you use the great insights and wisdom you've just displayed to chose someone to vote for, you're probably going to vote for a dipshit, and then the laws will at least remain as retarded as they are, or, preferably, get worse.

          Not my problem, fortunately.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 27 2020, @08:16PM (3 children)

            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 27 2020, @08:16PM (#1027280)
            ?? Did you reply to the right post?
            --
            🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 3, Funny) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:06AM (2 children)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:06AM (#1027414) Homepage
              Yes. You posted something moronic, and I called you out on it. You demonstrated that that had gone right over your head, so I informed you of how clueless you were, and how dangerous such cluelessness would be were you to have any responsibility for anything.

              You're reinforcing my point remarkably well. Feel free to dig further if you like this hole.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 3, Touché) by Tork on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:01AM

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:01AM (#1027443)
                Heh. I posted something, you disagreed with it, and when I asked for clarification you strangely asserted that I’m not voting for whoever you like and that means I’m dumb. While I appreciate your generosity, I simply cannot share the credit for such an original insight!
                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:11AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:11AM (#1027447)

                Jesus Christ you big fat slob, I hear exercise has cognitive benefits, look into it.

  • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Monday July 27 2020, @06:44PM (9 children)

    by Opportunist (5545) on Monday July 27 2020, @06:44PM (#1027233)

    Yes. People. People are stupid. Care to point at any official statement telling you to wear a mask when nobody is around?

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by sjames on Monday July 27 2020, @07:30PM (1 child)

      by sjames (2882) on Monday July 27 2020, @07:30PM (#1027260) Journal

      Considering that he reports that when he's outside with nobody around, people yell at him, I suspect mental illness.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @08:59PM (#1027297)

        Learn English, dummy.

    • (Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:07PM (6 children)

      by Oakenshield (4900) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:07PM (#1027583)

      Care to point at any official statement telling you to wear a mask when nobody is around?

      State of Ohio mask requirement order starting July 23 @ 6:00PM.

      Masks are required with very narrow exceptions:

      --- At an indoor location that is not a residence

      I am in a building mostly by myself in an office completely by myself. I see maybe two people per day as our place of work is closed and I am considered essential personnel. This is no exception despite the fact that I frequently have the whole floor of the building to myself and may see nobody the entire day. I am at least given a generous exception while actively eating lunch.

      --- Waiting for, riding, driving, or operating public transportation, such as a taxi, a car service, or a private car used for ride-sharing.

      Standing outside your home waiting for an Uber or taxi requires a mask regardless of proximity to anyone.

      https://governor.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/governor/media/news-and-media/covid19-update-07222020 [ohio.gov]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:39PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:39PM (#1027627)

        That's what you get for living in a state with an (R) governor.

        Move out of the sticks, friend.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:26PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:26PM (#1027657)

          That's what he gets for living in Ohio! Seriously, you should have known the government would be drooling retards when you look at the population

          • (Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:42PM (2 children)

            by Oakenshield (4900) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:42PM (#1027730)

            Nice to see the open bigotry of those who hate us flyovers. It reminds me of how we so narrowly dodged the bigot-in-chief and queen snob back in 2016.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:30PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:30PM (#1027783)

              Nice to see the open bigotry of those who hate us flyovers. It reminds me of how we so narrowly dodged the bigot-in-chief and queen snob back in 2016.

              I don't *hate* anyone. And going to college in Ohio, and living in a wide variety of places in the US over the past 30 years, I found that we're all pretty similar. With similar interests, dreams and desires. And most of us are decent, caring humans who just want a decent life for themselves and their families.

              That you think people *hate* you because you live in "flyover country" (your term, not mine) says more about you than it does about everyone else.

              Perhaps that's something you should consider?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:15AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:15AM (#1027875)

                That you think people *hate* you because you live in "flyover country" (your term, not mine) says more about you than it does about everyone else.

                When someone posts the following:

                That's what he gets for living in Ohio! Seriously, you should have known the government would be drooling retards when you look at the population

                I think it's a safe bet someone hates us. What is says about me is that I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:55PM (#1027708)

        Often such requirements like "at all times" which violate common sense are merely to make enforcement easier. Clesrs up any possible confusion about when exactly they have to put it on. Generally I just use my common sense and put the mask on when needed and don't worry too much about a cop hassling me over a technicality.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:07AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:07AM (#1027446)

    Oh noes, people being idiots mean you have to go full arrdard?