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posted by martyb on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:10AM   Printer-friendly
from the ro-o-o-a-a-rrrrrr^W-whir-r-r-r dept.

Last week Monday VW opened up its pre-orders list for the ID.3, its first all-electric car built on its MEB platform. A week later, and 37,000 customers have put €1000 [~1,176 USD] in advance already.

There are a couple of reasons for the apparent enthusiasm. First the range, going from an official 330 km [~200 mi] (45kWh battery) standard range over 420 km [~250 mi] (58kWh) medium to 550 km [~330 mi] (77kWh) for the long range battery. Practical range is estimated at 260, 330 and 430 km. [~156, ~200, and ~260 mi],

Second the price. The standard version comes in at €21,000 [~24,700 USD] in Germany (€30,000 [~35,300 USD] list price, €9,000 [~10,600 USD] subsidy). Medium range has a list price of €36,000 [~42,300 USD], for the maximum range the price is not yet known, but below €50,000 [~58,800 USD].

The car is rear-wheel driven by an 150kW motor, with top speed limited at 160 km/h [~100 mph]. Torque is 310Nm, delivering 0-60 kph [~37 mph] in 3.7 seconds (1st version; the standard version 9 seconds).

No talk about autonomous driving though: only lane assist and adaptive cruise control are provided.

Delivery of the car starts in September. There are no plans to bring the ID.3 to the US. Volkswagen said it is on track to deliver 70,000 ID.3's by year's end, and an additional 30,000 upcoming ID.4 SUVs along with that. Tesla, in contrast, sold more than 90,000 of its cars last quarter alone.


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  • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:57PM (11 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:57PM (#1027608) Journal

    The range is not there for my household; we're basically out in the ass end of nowhere.

    It's 285m (458.7km) from here to the nearest city in my state with no opportunity to charge between here and there; and rear wheel drive is an absolute can't-go-there, as it means the vehicle is a driveway queen in winter. I'm dubious about the range numbers anyway... I need 280 always-reliable miles with AC/summer or heater/winter running the whole time.

    The Tesla S and X both have all wheel drive; that's a huge point in their favor for me. Tesla's model X "long range" has a claimed 325m (523.0km) range; the model S "long range" has a claimed 370m (595.5km) range, which sounds closer to what we're after — although again, with heater or AC on, the range is reduced severely... hand wavy numbers say a 40% range reduction. Ouch. Then there's battery degradation over time to consider. And the prices! The X/LR is $85k, and the S/LR is $80k.

    More patience is required. Probably about ten years worth...

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:42PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:42PM (#1027628)

    Even if you do live in the city, if you haven't got a charging station on either end of your commute, you're going to be massively inconvenienced from time to time when you need to charge.

    For those that live in multi-family housing, you may not even have the option of installing a charging station. Which is a shame because the city is really where electrics are playing to their strengths. I have no doubt that the range and charging times will improve enough that they can be used in more rural areas. But, let's be honest, the bulk of the people live in cities, so if the relatively few people living in more rural areas need gas or diesel, it's still a massive improvement over the status quo.

    But, even in the rural areas, I could definitely see charging stations popping up at local businesses as they try to get money from the folks in electric vehicles that are passing through.

    • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday July 29 2020, @01:32AM

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Wednesday July 29 2020, @01:32AM (#1027928) Journal

      Until charging times and stations improve, charging stations are pretty much a non-starter. What I've learned from owning a BEV is that what you really, really want is to be able to make a round trip without charging. Do all your charging at home, where's there's no bullcrap to deal with, like all available charging stations being occupied-- for hours because that's the kind of time it takes.

      I've found charging stations that are turned off for the night (and it was of course night when I needed it), ones that have been permanently closed, and plenty of issues. You can't just plug in and get a charge, even at the so-called free stations. You can't simply swipe a credit card to pay for a charge, like you can at a gas pump. No, you have to set up accounts with half a dozen different networks. You need a special card, which takes a week to come in the mail. Or you need to install their app on your smart phone, and if you don't have or use a smart phone, or their card, you simply cannot get a charge, even if it is supposedly free. Even when you do have the account and the app, the charging station may be malfunctioning, and will blame the problem on your car.

      One other thing is that charging stations along the route are nigh useless, only good if you've messed up and don't have enough juice left to reach your destination, in which case you will be stuck for only an hour or 2, instead of, say, a whole day. Only those very near or at the endpoints, or at long stops of at least an hour, are at all useful. There just plain aren't enough. Even in a major metropolis, there are many places that are over 2 miles from the nearest charging station. Forget about parking at the closest charging station and walking the last mile or two. Simply takes too damned long to walk that kind of distance, and American cities are quite hostile to walking.

      You can double your effective range if there is a charging station at the other end and you're willing to take you chances with it. But if there's any problem, you will be stranded. Even if the other end is a friend or relative's home and they are willing to let you recharge, you need to watch for certain things, can't count on that going smoothly. Last time I tried that, I forgot to check that there was nothing else drawing power from the circuit my friend let me use. And so what happened, is that 15 minutes after I had plugged in, some appliance like a fridge turned on, and drew enough additional power to trip the circuit breaker. Was 3 hours before anyone noticed. So I had impose on my friend for an extra 3 hours to get enough charge to get back home.

      Still another problem is incompatible charging stations. Tesla does their own thing. You can't charge a non-Tesla BEV at a Tesla charging station. Tesla thoughtfully provides their customers with adapters so that their Teslas can use any charging station. But they don't provide adapters for the opposite situation, to allow the owner of a Tesla charging station to charge non-Tesla BEVs. So much for getting a quick charge while I visited my relative who owns a Tesla.

  • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:03PM (4 children)

    by Freeman (732) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:03PM (#1027646) Journal

    That leaves you what, in the middle of nowhere New Mexico/Arizona/Nevada/Utah/Montana somewhere? Definitely not anywhere in the east as you don't even have to travel that far to get out of many of the states.

    Yeah, without a lot of infrastructure that people take for granted with gas cars, electric cars have very limited use. A switch to all electric would take a serious effort to change that in a relatively small time period or it will eventually change over a long time period. That's assuming that electric cars actually will take over. As opposed to just being a nice fancy toy for the rich and virtue signalers.

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    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:38PM (2 children)

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:38PM (#1027698) Journal

      That leaves you what, in the middle of nowhere New Mexico/Arizona/Nevada/Utah/Montana somewhere?

      Yes, Montana. Near Canada. And not much else.

      As a friend of mine once said:

      This isn't the end of the world.... but you can see it from here.

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      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:16PM (#1027762)

        Ah, the Hi-line! Hwy 2! Hinsdale? Nashua? Chinook?

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday July 28 2020, @10:48PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @10:48PM (#1027815) Journal

        I used to think that, but last summer we crossed Canada on the trans-Canada highway. Between Medicine Hat and Kenora is the ass end of nowhere. Crossing the border immediately south of that it instantly feels vibrant, populous, and cosmopolitan.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:41PM (#1027699)

      i'm hoping for vastly improved batteries and solar. maybe hydrogen/electric hybrids.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @04:25PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @04:25PM (#1027675)

    > rear wheel drive is an absolute can't-go-there, as it means the vehicle is a driveway queen in winter

    You already ruled the VW out on other grounds. Why add this jab, unless you already know the weight distribution of the ID.3?

    After all, the original Beetle with rear engine and RWD was great in the snow. We had one through the 1960s with many snowy winters in Buffalo and it got through when many others couldn't (minimal heater was the major problem). Also it is great fun to have rear wheel drive in the snow, sliding around at low speeds is a blast.

    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:35PM

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:35PM (#1027694) Journal

      the original Beetle with rear engine and RWD was great in the snow

      Lol, no, they were not. I've owned a couple of them, both in Montana winters and in Pennsylvania winters. They're awful compared to something with 4WD/AWD. They're just better than a RWD vehicle with a poorer weight distribution.

      You already ruled the VW out on other grounds. Why add this jab

      It's not a "jab", it's a legit factor that rules it out. If they increase the range, it'll still stand in the way. They would have to address both issues to address my concerns.

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      Ticket Minion: No. Still too short.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:28PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:28PM (#1027723)

    Gee, thanks for that image of fyngyrz in the ass end of nowhere.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:05PM (#1027757)

    I'm all "rah rah rah" for the electric car revolution, but I'm not going to waste your time or mine trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. The electric cars today fit best in a suburban or urban environment, for people who only drive more than 150 miles a day a few times a year. On those days, you just rent something that can travel further. I do know Tesla owners that take longer trips, but they're in areas with an impressive amount of charging stations and a lot of the country still isn't covered.

    I live in the suburbs and I already have a combustion engine minivan in the driveway. A second electric vehicle would suit us just fine. When I had a commute, I was driving 24k miles per year but almost never more than 150 miles on any single day.

    If you desperately want an electric car, move. (That was a joke.)