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from the lockdowns-were-supposed-to-be-just-one-part-of-defense-at-depth dept.
Economists warn of 'widespread costs' from lockdown:
Blanket restrictions on economic activity should be lifted and replaced with measures targeted specifically at groups most at risk, say economists.
[...] They argue that while the extent to which the lockdown contributed to a subsequent slowing in the rate of new infections and deaths is not easy to estimate precisely, it seems clear that it did contribute to these public health objectives.
However, they say it is "very far from clear" whether keeping such tight restrictions in place for three months until the end of June when they began to be lifted was warranted, given the large costs. They say that the costs of carrying on with such a lockdown are likely to have become significantly greater than its benefits.
Debate over the global dilemma continues.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:30AM (17 children)
People with non-COVID illnesses do not get help in time, with hospitals and doctors' offices denied to them, and either die at home or have the condition (such as cancer) progress to terminal, to do their dying a little bit later.
People with no money cannot afford proper medical help and/or medicines, see above for results.
People go crazy being cooped up, or desperate losing everything, and kill themselves.
People gone crazy and/or desperate kill other people, in robberies and various conflicts.
If things are not televised, does not mean they are not happening.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:49AM (14 children)
So, If you get the transmission rates down, the hospitals won't be overwhelmed,
This is the US, where "universal health care" is rejected because of the "socialist" in "socialized", so you do have people who can't afford health care or hospital, or medicine, and your society allows (demands!) that they do to without..
Effective suppression (or better still, elimination [cnn.com], means people wouldn't have had to be locked up for months...
People gone crazy, but with less access to guns.. kill fewer people - but that is a separate issue.. better treat the symptoms and causes of the crazy first, right?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @12:41PM
Yeah, that "elimination" works right up until one person comes in on a plane or boat with it and starts it all right back up because nobody has any immunity.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @12:48PM (7 children)
FTFY. Reality check, as they say.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:01PM (6 children)
While that happens, it's more difficult, so less frequent.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:09PM (4 children)
Absolutely and verifiably untrue.
Take the Brits, as they're a fine example of strict gun control. Their homicide rate per capita is up not down since strict gun control was implemented back in the mid-60s. By around fifty percent.
Here in the US, murder rates appear largely unrelated to per capita gun ownership. Not lacking just a causal relationship but even a decent correlative one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday July 30 2020, @07:59PM (2 children)
Got a reference I could check that thing on the British on? The US case is complex, since rural populations have different needs than urban populations. I can certainly see rural populations having a need for guns...if nothing else it helps avoid rattlesnakes. But I also doubt the validity of the gun registration numbers. If I had wanted a gun a decade or so ago I could easily have gotten it without registration. It would probably have been wise to do so, as my father had Alzheimer's. But I'm a lousy marksman, so I wasn't interested.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @04:06AM (1 child)
Nah, closed the tabs before I read this. Just google "historical murder rates uk" and you should find the one I used pretty easily though.
As for guns, you can easily get one today that isn't registered. Buy it from a private individual. I mean, this is still America and you can still sell your own property, one individual to another, without registering anything with the government so long as you don't need tax paperwork for it. There's nothing even slightly illegal or even shady about doing so.
As for rural populations needing guns more than urban ones? I've lived in both and disagree most emphatically. Guns are rarely taken out of wherever you store them in rural areas unless you're an avid hunter or have a kid that needs taught to shoot. When they are it's more often than not as a tool. You know, remove turtles from a pond, put down a horse with a broken leg, shoot a dog that's getting after your chickens or cattle, thin the local coyote population because they're becoming a nuisance... That sort of thing. The rest of nature isn't remotely as dangerous as other human beings though, so urban life is vastly more in need of firearms.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday July 31 2020, @01:44PM
OK. A brief search, mainly using Wikipedia pages, didn't confirm your assertion. I'll agree, though, that there's lots of noise in the data, and obviously other factors are also involved.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday August 03 2020, @03:35AM
It's amazing what years of austerity will do.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:12PM
Your faith's gospel contradicts documented reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate [wikipedia.org]
Russia, with very restrictive gun laws: 8.21 murders per 100,000.
Meanwhile in Lithuania: 4.57 per same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Lithuania [wikipedia.org]
Gun crime
Between 1995 and 2018 number of homicides using firearms has fallen by more than 98% from 252 to four, while overall number of homicides has fallen by 85% from 505 to 72.[5][2]
4 vs 68. Which type of weapon is 17 times more dangerous than the other?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:25PM (4 children)
I don't know where you're pulling that in from. Many millions of guns have been bought up this year. Feb, Mar, Apr, and May, and probably Jun as well, the numbers have been crazy high. Many of those gun sales have been to first time gun owners, who are frightened of Covid as well as political unrest around the country.
I put a search term in, and got zillions of hits. Didn't even try to scroll down to find a "reputable" citation. This one should work - https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/three-months-6-million-guns-sold/ [freebeacon.com]
If you don't like or trust freebeacon, do your own search, with whatever terms you like.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:42PM (3 children)
That was probably a pointless reply. Anyone who believes that nonsense is already under a huge mountain of denial.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:57PM (1 child)
Yes - but - it's so hard to sit back and watch the liars and damned liars spout their meaningless bullshit . . .
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @07:25PM
It's the internet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:53PM
Silly Buzzard! Everyone knows De Nile is a river in Eygpt, not a Mountain in Turkey.
(Time to take away Runaway's gun. He's loosing it!)
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:17PM (1 child)
I agree, we should try to ensure to keep the infection from spreading, since lower infection rates mean that medical professionals can concentrate on other diseases rather than having to spend time treating those infected by Covid. Could you think of a way to lower infection rates?
And this changed due to Covid in what way exactly? People already couldn't afford proper medical help and medicine. Mostly because your country has the medical insurance system of a third world country. It does work in countries with a sensible social security system. You're barking up the wrong tree here.
And your solution is what? Having people go work in crowded spaces, knowing fully well that this not only ensures that the disease will continue but also killing them? I'd rather use the system Europe designed, that we keep people from worrying by actually paying them to stay home for the time being with a sensible security system.
Ok, I can't fix stupid. Maybe you're right, maybe it is better to kill off the batch that currently litters the country and start over with a new seed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @05:59PM
Social distancing, obviously. Convincing people with respiratory symptoms to self-isolate at home just in case. NOT hospitalizing COVID-positive people with no or mild symptoms, keeping them isolated at home; hospitalizing only those ill seriously enough to actually need medical care. Tracking the infection cases where at all possible. Isolating the new arrivals from infected countries at their place of residence for two weeks.
All the things that Latvia used to great effect.
Observe that lockdowns and mandatory masks are not on the list; the neighboring Baltic countries, having done those things, fared about twice worse.
Are all those who could afford that, before they got their livelihood ripped from them, NOT people in your view?
You are lying through your teeth. Are those who die while on the waiting list somehow "unpersons" in your view?
The observed "social security" reality is, you can either wait for half an year or more to see a medical specialist, do an MRT, or anything, while your condition worsens; or pay from your pocket and live.
Latvia's solution is to forbid crowding, not forbid working. Guess what? It works!
And a fat lot of good it has done to most part of Europe. The "Second Wave" is upon you, isn't it?
Problem is, it is not the crazies but those who lived near them, who get murdered.