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from the lockdowns-were-supposed-to-be-just-one-part-of-defense-at-depth dept.
Economists warn of 'widespread costs' from lockdown:
Blanket restrictions on economic activity should be lifted and replaced with measures targeted specifically at groups most at risk, say economists.
[...] They argue that while the extent to which the lockdown contributed to a subsequent slowing in the rate of new infections and deaths is not easy to estimate precisely, it seems clear that it did contribute to these public health objectives.
However, they say it is "very far from clear" whether keeping such tight restrictions in place for three months until the end of June when they began to be lifted was warranted, given the large costs. They say that the costs of carrying on with such a lockdown are likely to have become significantly greater than its benefits.
Debate over the global dilemma continues.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:49PM (46 children)
You were doing okay until that bit of #fakenews. Which got you a -1 spam mod, since we don't have a -1 #fakenews mod — which is what you really deserved.
No one who advocates the use of masks that I know, or have ever run into online, or have read or heard iin any news report, has ever said or suggested that masks will "prevent everything." The assertion is that they reduce the spread primarily by reducing the distance exhaled viral particles quicky reach, and to a minor extent, reduce the intake of particles that are riding on moisture and adhere to the mask on the way by, which reduces the viral load and in turn can reduce the severity of the case if the disease is contracted. All of this is predicated on handling the mask as advised.
Reduction of spread is important, as it works to reduce the R0, which needs to be under 1.0 for this thing to back off, and even above 1.0, the lower it is, the better, because that reduces the load on the medical system, which is already stressed to its limits in some locations in the USA. When the system is overloaded, all manner of nasty follow-on effects begin to make themselves known — when poor or no medical care for things that would normally be treatable comes into play, that extends the harm of the pandemic well beyond those who actually contract COVID-19.
You made some decent points. See if you can avoid hyperbolic nonsense and outright lies, and perhaps more people would find your position(s) worth considering. Even a fine meal is pretty much ruined by a single turd on the table.
--
I set my clock ahead to prevent being late
But all it did was sharpen my subtraction skills
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @02:57PM (16 children)
His post was not spam -- it was his opinion. He isn't selling anything. I once lost my mod privileges for some time period for using spam incorrectly and that appears to be appropriate here.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:24PM
Taken care of.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:33PM (11 children)
The portion I quoted wasn't exactly spam, however, the closest available mod is spam, unfortunately, due to our aging moderation system's inability to cope with posting issues that have arisen since the whole #fakenews thing really got a grip on social media in general, Soylent being no exception:
That is not presented as opinion — that's a statement presented as fact, and what's more, one serving a very specific agenda. It is manifestly untrue. Absolutely #fakenews. I explained why in some detail.
I also pointed out that good points were made — clearly I wasn't saying the whole post was spam. When he got to it, though, he was presenting a lie as if it was established fact. That deserves moderation, IMO.
TMB took unbrage at my temerity in showing why a #fakenews mod is needed, and rage-banned me at the slightest excuse, invalid though it was; so be it. Hardly the end of the world. It doesn't make me wrong, either. It simply demonstrates his willingness to abuse his position here.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
--
Eschew Obfuscation.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @06:26PM (4 children)
That's his opinion. He's entitled to it like you to yours, but unless it is designed to induce you to engage in a financial transaction that would benefit him, it's just an opinion and cannot be spam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:34PM (2 children)
Unless he is lying, and by his lying trying to get us all kilt!
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:49PM (1 child)
Yeah -- I'm sad that's not the definition of spam sometimes -- if it was Rachel Maddow would be locked up for life for trying to spark a nuclear war, but ultimately, unless the post is along the lines of selling pills to grow dick or whatever, it is not spam.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @03:42AM
Fuck, dude, we could never interview a politician if we used that standard. Like, ever.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday August 03 2020, @03:12AM
Spam is usually defined as unsolicited messages. Here, while selling stuff is obviously spam, I'd also consider APK repeatedly posting the same shit to also be spam.
(Score: 5, Troll) by martyb on Friday July 31 2020, @02:03AM (3 children)
At the bottom of every comments page is a "Moderator Help" button which links to https://soylentnews.org/faq.pl?op=moderation [soylentnews.org]. At the top of the page is a section labelled "contents", the 7th item of which links directly to https://soylentnews.org/faq.pl?op=moderation#spam [soylentnews.org] which I quote here verbatim and in its entirety:
Based on the foregoing, I find that comment https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=38735&page=1&cid=1028583#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] had not met the criteria for a Spam moderation. Therefore, a moderation ban was appropriate.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 3, Troll) by aristarchus on Friday July 31 2020, @05:35AM
Would it be a faux pas to spam mod the moderator help on the spam mod? Interesting recursive features, in accordance with the best Unix and Linux traditions.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 01 2020, @02:50AM (1 child)
That is so awesome! I've never seen a +5 Troll (or forgot if I did)!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 01 2020, @02:37PM
One Troll mod and 5 Underrated. I'm guessing some admins colluded to engineer that score.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @04:12AM (1 child)
You were better than this. Stop weaseling. The rules were clear, you broke them, now take your punishment.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @11:50AM
He's wanting us to include a downmod that has nothing at all to do with differentiating signal from noise, which is the entire purpose of having downmods. It's not gonna happen but I expect him to keep loudly feeling oppressed about it for a while.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:32PM (2 children)
Tell that to Herman Cain! VLM's posts are not spam, VLM is spam! He's selling racist bullshit! And Hemocyanin is buying!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @11:54PM (1 child)
Yeah -- I'm a nazi, also Jewish but whatever, and racist, and fragile, and a troll and flamebaiter. You might as well call me a chocolate slug or a marshmallow. I used to care but I've realized that the words you use have no weight and don't mean what normal people think they do. Your knife is dull from over use and just doesn't stab people like you're used to any more.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @12:21AM
Fricking Nazi! Sorry you have become so cynical and jaded as not to be able to believe in the superiority of the white race any more. Must suck to be you.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:21PM (15 children)
You can fuck right off and die with that #fakenews mod idea. We are not going to turn mods into meaningless tags by introducing any non-noise categories of downmod so that your abuse of the mod system is vindicated.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:17PM (14 children)
From you, to me, today:
Well, the mod ban... yeah, not unexpected, considering your remarks in IRC yesterday. The bit about wanting one? No. You were just typing for your own entertainment there. That ban is a solid confirmation of your authoritarian leanings. You could just have easily reversed the mod, or modded the other way yourself... yet you chose the nuclear option. It is also reemphasizes your recurring failure to fairly consider suggestions for improvement to the site beyond your own personal viewpoint.
When you tell me to "fuck right off", you're taking the position that the site is yours and all decisions relating to it are yours. Neither of which is the case — consequently I feel perfectly free to ignore your advice in the matter. As for the (continuing) personal remarks, I decline to sink that low. However, I did notice you've been calling quite a few other people names today as well. That's interesting.
As for the mod itself, when you don't have appropriate categories for moderation, and yet moderation is called for, those categories are going to diffuse or mutate, no matter what your personal opinions about "noise" tell you. This certainly won't be the last time someone posts outright disinformation and gets legitimately hit for it. So you can look forward to imposing more repressive bans on legit moderations in the future as long as the moderation options here remain so severely limited.
Cheers. :)
--
Things aren't always #000000 and #FFFFFF.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:36PM (3 children)
Thanks for quickly modbanning fyngryz for his blatant abuse!
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @06:31PM (2 children)
As an ex-modBanPrisoner, I suggest you don't get the modBanPrison tattoos. They're lame.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @03:45AM (1 child)
Shit, now you tell me?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @04:26AM
In your case they actually make you look better. You get a few bonus points for banning yerself!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 30 2020, @05:08PM (2 children)
You knew perfectly well that it wasn't anything close to fitting the Spam mod guidelines and you knew equally well what the penalty was for abusing that particular moderation. So, yes, you wanted one or you would have abused your moderation privs in a way not guaranteed to get you mod banned.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday July 31 2020, @05:46AM (1 child)
[Channelling Zorg:
Fifth Element [imdb.com]]
I gotta say, I admire a self-conscious spam mod aimed at rampant stupidity, even if it does violate the rules. For someone to do so takes guts, principles, and a cursor over a button on a website. Of course they know the consequences, and accept them, and wear them like a badge of honor. I once spam-modded TMB, for being such an asshole. Yes, I had to sit out a while. But of course it was worth it, since it resulted in him doing the same, just like the Feds in Portland, and he had to mod-ban himself.
So be of good cheer, fyngyrz, your handle has been entered into the rolls of Valhalla! We await your return, but remember, you can still post the allegedly desired refutations of the Nazis on this site, even if you cannot down-mod them. And we will mod you up.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @11:56AM
It did not. You earned the arinoyance for both incidents and I wouldn't dream of short changing you on credit where it's due.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:46PM (6 children)
True, that. TMB is rather testy, quick with the f-bombs and death wishes, as are Runaway1966 and VLM. Must be that time of the election cycle. But this is the inevitable end point of a dead-end political movement, from the Lost Cause through the John Birchers, and from the Tea Party to QAnon and Boogerloos.
Yeats, gentlepersons! [poets.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:08PM (2 children)
So you're predicting Trump will get a second term?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:19PM
More than likely Cthulhu will emerge from the shattered husk of the Donald. We are seeing the signs of neurological damage from the birth of the Great Old One, trouble with ramps, two-handed water sipping. And everyone is making fun of the Demon Sperm retweet? It was a Call for help by the hopelessly doomed! But, he made a deal. Seemed like a good deal, at the time. Now it's Angel Heart [imdb.com] time.
And this is why there is this sudden increase in right-wing madness among his followers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @12:23AM
The Title of the Poem is "The Second Coming", not "The Second Term", although both could be equally apocalyptic.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @03:47AM (2 children)
The word "fuck" and its myriad conjugations are but punctuation to me most of the time. I thought you would have figured that out by now.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday July 31 2020, @04:48AM (1 child)
Do not mistake critique for a lack of comprehension, oh community-college drop-out Buzztard! It is a question of style, and rhetorical effectiveness.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @11:57AM
Yeah, style doth ooze from my every orifice.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @06:43PM (8 children)
"who advocates the use of masks"
that's one way to say "tries to force others to wear masks"
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:48PM (7 children)
"Wear a mask, or we will shoot you down like the rabid dog you are. Your choice! Have a nice day. "
No one has the right to pose a public health hazard to others. If you do so, you lose your rights, and maybe your life.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @12:21AM (1 child)
You pose a public health hazard to anyone with non-working immune system. Do you prefer to lose your rights, your life, or just stop playing a dumbass?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @12:25AM
Killing sick people is still murder. Come at me, Bro!!! (What a Maroon!)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @03:49AM (4 children)
So it's okay for you to demand I wear a mask for your safety? Cause if it is, I demand you carry a firearm for mine.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @04:29AM (2 children)
False equivalence, commonly known as a strawman. You're more likely to be in danger from someone who doesn't know how to use a gun suddenly being forced to carry one and shoot someone who poses a threat to your life.
Do you even think this shit through? Lol silly question nm.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @04:51AM
This is why I will not wear a Glock mask. The whole "trigger safety" is just totally unsafe. People have had their masks go off prematurely, and wounded themselves or bystanders. If you are uncertain about what mask to wear for your EDC, go with the N95, in a ear-rig. Safety before firepower, I always say.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 31 2020, @12:05PM
A) Nothing false about it. Both are forced acts of protecting others.
B) No, that is not in fact what a strawman is. Not even close.
C) Then learn how to use one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday August 03 2020, @03:22AM
Isn't that kind of backwards? Trying to make someone do something unsafe in response to trying to make things safer?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Friday July 31 2020, @12:26PM
Honestly the whole mask thing sounds like another "Syphilis Study at Tuskegee"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Public_Health_Service_Syphilis_Study_at_Tuskegee [wikipedia.org]
You make it sound like a strip of cloth will work for relatively safer activities like asbestos abatement or lead paint removal. Its a blind faith in authoritarianism and propaganda.
Would a safety fence at a job site made of dental floss pass OSHA review?
Suddenly once its masks and COVID, instead of science and engineering, everything is based on faith and virtue signalling. I'm sure you have the only true faith and you're better than everyone else who doesn't have the faith and you can be quite smug about trying to convert others at the point of a sword. The problem is the reality based atheist community who aren't true believers will be hard to get along with. We're literally like two people arguing if a better medical treatment for infection is devout united prayer or penicillin.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday July 31 2020, @12:32PM (2 children)
The problem with a '#fakenews' mod is that people will use it instead of a 'disagree' mod, diluting it into uselessness. The first deals with objective fact and the latter with opinion.
-- hendrik
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @05:12PM (1 child)
What's the point, when the mod abusers already have "Troll", "Flamebait" and "Redundant" to choose from? Only non-abusers use "Disagree" today, because the goal is to hide other people's badthink to the community.
I have always preferred thumbs up/down mods, like the Register uses. Or SN could set the default threshold to -1 for non-logged in users, that would save me the annoyance of having to always manually switch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @06:08PM
Personally, I don't see the point of moderation besides spam. Just plain threaded with the option to hide all AC or specific users is enough.