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posted by Fnord666 on Sunday August 02 2020, @06:59PM   Printer-friendly
from the secure-enclave-isn't dept.

New 'unpatchable' exploit allegedly found on Apple's Secure Enclave chip, here's what it could mean - 9to5Mac:

The Secure Enclave is a security coprocessor included with almost every Apple device to provide an extra layer of security. All data stored on iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, and other Apple devices is encrypted with random private keys, which are only accessible by the Secure Enclave. These keys are unique to your device and they're never synchronized with iCloud.

[...] It's important to note that although the Secure Enclave chip is built into the device, it works completely separately from the rest of the system. This ensures that apps won't have access to your private keys, since they can only send requests to decrypt specific data such as your fingerprint to unlock an app through the Secure Enclave.

[...] Now, Chinese hackers from the Pangu Team have reportedly found an "unpatchable" exploit on Apple's Secure Enclave chip that could lead to breaking the encryption of private security keys.

[...] The only thing we know so far is that this vulnerability in Secure Enclave affects all Apple chips between the A7 and A11 Bionic [...] Apple has already fixed this security breach with the A12 and A13 Bionic chips


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by aiwarrior on Sunday August 02 2020, @07:26PM (14 children)

    by aiwarrior (1812) on Sunday August 02 2020, @07:26PM (#1030396) Journal

    I am surprised this exploit was published. This seems like a very high value exploit for a nation state and would give an edge on APTs. All i have to say is thank you.
    On another note I am getting a bit worried with the unpatchable nature of these systems.

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 02 2020, @07:52PM (11 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 02 2020, @07:52PM (#1030402) Journal

    The funny bit about all these unpatchable exploits is, they are almost exclusively located in the hardware meant to secure the device. Few of these are found in the CPU. Microcode updates are capable of fixing most problems found with the CPU. It's all the bolt-on bullshit that is unfixable.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 02 2020, @08:49PM (8 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday August 02 2020, @08:49PM (#1030421) Journal

      You're supposed to put the chip in a socket so it can be replaced. Upgradable = Vulnerable

      Read only is still the most secure. The OS should always be on ROM, but not soldered in

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday August 02 2020, @10:56PM (6 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 02 2020, @10:56PM (#1030477) Journal

        You're supposed to put the chip in a socket so it can be replaced.

        If only the Apple fans would accept a 1mm thicker iPhone (grin)

        Seriously speaking, if the "security enclave" would be socket-replaceable, how would it still be... you know... secure? 'Cause I imagine it's pretty easy for a an attacker to replace it in the space of minutes without any more special tool than a(n Apple™) screwdriver.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 02 2020, @11:57PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 02 2020, @11:57PM (#1030488)

          What 'shithole countries' are you travelling through that would bug your phone?

          In Peter Dutton we trust.

          • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @12:15AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @12:15AM (#1030494)

            What 'shithole countries' are you travelling through that would bug your phone?

            No, I don't have plans to travel to US.
            But I learned there are some third of a billion already there.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @02:45AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @02:45AM (#1030554)

              What 'shithole counties' are you travelling through that would bug your phone?

              Yakima county, for one. Surveillance devices up & out the wazoo. Watch your wazoo when passing through.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by jasassin on Monday August 03 2020, @01:12AM

          by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Monday August 03 2020, @01:12AM (#1030518) Homepage Journal

          Seriously speaking, if the "security enclave" would be socket-replaceable, how would it still be... you know... secure?

          If they replaced the chip it would have different secret keys (the secret keys are supposedly inaccessible) it couldn't decrypt your data (unlock the phone). If the chip was replaced before you purchased the phone the point is moot, because the attacker would have plenty of time to solder on a new chip.

          --
          jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday August 03 2020, @01:16AM (1 child)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday August 03 2020, @01:16AM (#1030520) Journal

          how would it still be... you know... secure?

          Not secure... just more so than an uninvited OTA upgrade.

          The "security" is for the phone, not the user. It's just supposed to be a serial number for tracking the device, and maybe turning on the camera and mic remotely, and reading the contacts, and emails, and messages...

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday August 03 2020, @02:02AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 03 2020, @02:02AM (#1030532) Journal

            Not secure... just more so than an uninvited OTA upgrade.

            Given that you can't change the chip as it is now with an OTA (even if you can exploit it), I have this feeling that it doesn't make any difference if the chip is soldered or plugged-in a socket.

            Regarding...

            You're supposed to put the chip in a socket so it can be replaced.

            ... assuming security is important for me, I still prefer a chip that is soldered (and then encapsulated in hard epoxy resin) for security. If it turns out that the chip is unsecure, I'll just exchange the phone entirely (and blend the older one to pieces [youtu.be]).
            Replacing the chip is kinda ReadWrite, only with hardware.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday August 03 2020, @06:38AM

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 03 2020, @06:38AM (#1030613)

        The OS should always be on ROM, but not soldered in.

        Hear, hear.

          Now let me go switch on my Acorn Archimedes... :)

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Monday August 03 2020, @01:39AM

      by driverless (4770) on Monday August 03 2020, @01:39AM (#1030524)

      The funny bit about all these unpatchable exploits is, they are almost exclusively located in the hardware meant to secure the device.

      We've (industry security group) ran into that problem as well when doing analyses of secure firmware update. Why do we need to keep updating the firmware? The vast majority of the time it's to patch holes in the crypto/security code that manages the secure firmware update. We were vastly more secure when firmware update was handled by someone moving a jumper and reflashing via USB, but apparently remote update is what all the cool kids are doing nowadays.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @03:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03 2020, @03:13PM (#1030749)

      That's expected.

      If something can be patched, it can be altered. If something can be altered, it can be undermined via malicious code.

      I would expect there to be higher number of unpatchable bugs in security code than elsewhere. It's just like how there are more un-prosecuted corruption in the government than elsewhere. (Corruption outside the government will be prosecuted by the government. Who will prosecute government-internal corruption, though?)

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 02 2020, @08:59PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 02 2020, @08:59PM (#1030428)

    I'm going to go with NSA already knew about the exploit. When the Chinese caught up (or paid for) the exploit, the NSA trashed its value by releasing it. That's what I would do if I were an evil mastermind.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Monday August 03 2020, @01:42AM

      by driverless (4770) on Monday August 03 2020, @01:42AM (#1030526)

      Or vice versa, the Chinese trashed the NSA's value by releasing.