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Ammonium nitrate: what is the chemical blamed for blast in Lebanese capital?
The likely cause of the huge blast in Beirut on Tuesday appears to have been the highly reactive chemical ammonium nitrate.
Lebanon's prime minister, Hassan Diab, said 2,700 tonnes of ammonium nitrate exploded after lying unsecured in a warehouse for six years, tallying with reports that a ship carrying a similar quantity of the chemical had unloaded its cargo at the port in 2013. It remains unclear what caused the chemical to ignite.
AFP is quoting the governor of Beirut, Marwan Abboud, as saying the damage from the port blast has extended over half of the city, with the cost of damage likely above $3bn.
He has also upped his previous estimate of the number of "homeless" to 300,000, which is close to the total population of the central part of the capital. Again, we are not sure if he is talking about homelessness or people whose homes have been damaged.
As Death Toll Rises After Deadly Blast, a Search for Answers and Survivors: Live Updates
As Death Toll Rises After Deadly Blast, a Search for Answers and Survivors: Live Updates:
- Search is on for survivors after blast kills more than 100.
- Some 300,000 people have been displaced from their homes. But amid the devastation, stories of heroism.
- The science behind the blast: Why fertilizer packs a punch.
- Even as hospitals were destroyed and staffers killed, doctors and nurses raced to help.
- I was bloodied and dazed. Beirut strangers treated me like a friend.
- In maps: A two-mile radius around the blast was flattened.
- Beirut's landmark downtown is in shambles. Again.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 05 2020, @12:45PM (28 children)
The western world has given use situations such as attempts to dislodge clumped ammonium nitrate with gunpowder, because the pickaxes weren't working well enough.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Disagree) by khallow on Wednesday August 05 2020, @01:32PM (21 children)
How about the part where we're not pretending? 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate allegedly left sitting in a warehouse for six years? Sorry, this doesn't happen in the western world. And something else was in that warehouse. I thought at first it was fireworks (from the videos which show flashes of light and fellow viewer commentary), which it might still be, but the fire wasn't started by burning ammonium nitrate (cloud wasn't a rust red color indicating lack of nitrogen in the fire).
When? Looking at Wikipedia, the last attempt to dislodge large amounts of ammonium nitrate with explosives happened in 1942. Why are we comparing contemporary failings of Beirut's port management with accidents that last happened (at significant magnitude) almost 80 years ago? Nobody claims that western countries had extremely good workplace safety going back to the dawn of time. And during the Second World War, a lot of short cuts happened and a lot of people died.
(Score: 2) by Aegis on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:30PM (2 children)
Here's one from 2013:
West Fertilizer Company explosion [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 05 2020, @11:46PM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:32AM
(Score: 2) by Aegis on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:40PM (1 child)
Iowa in 1994:
TERRA CHEMICAL ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION REPORT [epa.gov]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:35AM
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:59PM (5 children)
Yes, we really do things that stupid. The only thing that keeps it from happening often, are busybodies and inspections. Complacency creeps in, no matter what part of the world you live in.
What strikes me about this is, within just a few short hours, everyone knew what caused it. Obviously, there was full documentation, and people in authority knew about it. They probably talked about it in their offices. "What are we going to DO with all that explosive? It would be nice to recover that warehouse space, if nothing else."
What I find hard to believe, is that anyone who knew what was stored inside, would allow for welding to take place within the same building. The repairmen may or may not have been informed, but SOMEONE in at least a low position of authority should have been weirded out at the thought.
I'm trying to picture a Navy ship, and the captain approving of welding operations in, or even near, the powder magazines. Ugghh!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:36PM (3 children)
"Complacency" could be one reason. Gutting regulations could be another. FREEEEDOM! to dump chemicals.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:44PM (2 children)
We'll never get the freeeedom necessary to dump your toxic ass though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @08:36PM (1 child)
Awww, poor runaway upset that someone is calling out his hypocritical conservative viewpoints? Aww awwww, so sad.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:19PM
Poor Runaway is poor at detecting criticism or sarcasm. So sad. But America has all the best Ammonium Nitrate accidental detonations! We are Number One in Corona Virus! And we have the greatest stupidity in the world, some say the greatest stupidity ever! Trooly, we are Making America Grate Against!
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Friday August 07 2020, @10:14PM
More likely just luck. The same sort of luck that keeps a wreck of a car running long after it should have been junked (I speak from experience here). Kind of like waiting for a molecule that is already past its half life to decay.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:40PM
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 06 2020, @11:59AM (8 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:26PM (7 children)
Let us note that no one has yet to mention a recent developed world accident involving ammonium nitrate in a densely populated area or an egregious safety issue like leaving enormous amounts of ammonium nitrate sitting in a warehouse for six years. That's because there is no such accident in the developed world. There's no pretending here. But there is plenty of equating present day unsafe activity with 80 year old unsafe activity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:53PM (1 child)
Why are you so hung up on this "developed world" supremacy? You think we're not dipshits too? You think we are immune to endemic corruption by the power of our Christian beliefs? Come on, talk to me.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @09:31PM
Because someone keeps insisting it's not there. Citing Superfund sites that are more than 40 years old illustrates this problem in spades. You are saying here that Lebanon is more than 40 years behind the US in how it approaches serious environmental and public safety threats.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday August 07 2020, @07:15AM (4 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 07 2020, @02:31PM (3 children)
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday August 10 2020, @02:40PM (2 children)
Feel free to keep digging - we've got the anfo to dig you out.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 10 2020, @11:01PM (1 child)
So what words were you referring to?
So what contributions am I acting as if I didn't notice or understand?
What I think particularly ironic about this whole thread is that almost the entire world is rushing towards the western approach to economics and law. That's a demonstration of what approach is genuinely superior. Then when someone points out the stupidity of leaving a massive amount of explosive material in the middle of a city, we get such rejoinders as the US has Superfund, the western world had a pretty dumbass approach to ammonium nitrate many decades ago, or harbors can't technically be in the exact middle of a city.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 12 2020, @04:50AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Wednesday August 05 2020, @01:34PM (5 children)
Many? Can you give many examples please?
The Halifax explosion during WW1 was bad, and there have been one or two other cases in that league, but hardly "many". It is not a case of being superior, but factual, and the fact is that some non-First World nations need to look at their safety regulaltions. I once worked on large industrial plant (in the First World) with a significant potential public safety hazard, and I can assure you we would have been looking very closely at this event, and any reports that came out of it, to see what lessons could be learned. There would be no "superiority" or complacency about it. I was senior enough that I would have ensured it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:46PM
Well, one must tally the “many” equivalent “third world” events as well, then.
So... you know... we’re waiting.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:51PM (2 children)
Speaking of complacency, along with a probably lack of training:
I watched footage on a news channel years ago. A trucking company was shut down for the weekend, when one of their trailers caught fire. Fire department responds, and doesn't really bother checking the placards on the truck. They roll up, and start the fire hoses going. BOOM!!! They back off a little bit, then come back at it with the water hoses. BOOM! And, it continues, looking very much like a Keystone Cops comedy sketch.
Can't remember now which one it was, but it was a flammable metal. Flammable metals produce all the oxygen they need to burn by themselves, of course. But, spraying nice, sweet, oxygenated water on the fire only made things worse.
These dumbass macho firemen insisted that they were going to kill the fire, and kept going back at it with water.
Somehow, they didn't manage to kill themselves. If they had only read the placards, and maybe the MSDS, and possibly even called Chemtrec, they would have learned how to deal with the fire. Which, would have been to back off, and let the fire burn itself out.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:24PM (1 child)
Probably Sodium or Magnesium. Magnesium is hard to ignite but once it gets going it is hot enough to decompose H2O in to O2 and H2, which it then burn to get even hotter. Sodium will ignite and burn in contact with water.
You mean the MSDS placards that where on the sides of the BURNING trailer and covered in flames, possibly already burned off when the firefighters arrived? It takes time to call a company on a weekend and actually get through to someone who can give you information about what might be in a truck trailer. How long was the video?
containing/controlling fires is their job. They put their lives on the line to protect you and your property and that of your family and friends.
Water might have been all they had on hand at the time, not all engine companies have foam or other specialized fire suppression systems.Since you didn't mention the fire spreading to the warehouse and burning it to the ground it would seem they did a good job containing the blaze until the needed equipment arrived.
"dumbass macho"? based on what? firefighters doing their jobs to the best of their ability with the limited information and equipment they had at hand?
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:53PM
You may feel the need to stick up for firemen in general. Not necessary. In comparison to this Podunk Ohio fire department, the Houston Fire Department responded to a chemical emergency for me on a Saturday morning. Their command truck had every MSDS there is, right there in the truck. They KNEW Chemtrec's number. And, I promise, if you call Chemtrec ANYTIME, you'll get a prompt response. 24/7/365, 366 on leap years.
Not every fire department in this country is equally well trained.
When the reporters arrived, some time after the fire department arrived, the placards were still visible in their footage. The fire department had no excuse for not identifying the material in the trailer.
And, to answer your other question - no, there was no warehouse, no residential area close at hand. It was just a typical trucking company lot, full of trucks, trailers, and an office building with an attached 4 or 5 bay garage.
BTW - foam won't extinguish all flammable metals. Navy protocol is, for a magnesium fire, you push the aircraft overboard. You don't even make any serious attempt to extinguish it. Identify the source of the fire, if it's the magnesium, you deep six it. The foam and/or water will be used to extinquish any fires that were caused by the flammable metal burning, AFTER that metal is out of the way.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:22PM
Wikipedia even has a listicle about this.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves