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posted by martyb on Tuesday August 11 2020, @04:22AM   Printer-friendly
from the intelligence!=wisdom dept.

The Conversation:

The love of all things English begins at a young age in non-English-speaking countries, promoted by pop culture, Hollywood movies, fast-food brands, sports events and TV shows.

Later, with English skills and international education qualifications from high school, the path is laid to prestigious international universities in the English-speaking world and employment opportunities at home and abroad.

But those opportunities aren't distributed equally across socioeconomic groups. Global education in English is largely reserved for middle-class students.

This is creating a divide between those inside the global English proficiency ecosystem and those relegated to parts of the education system where such opportunities don't exist.

[...] It's unfortunate so many schools view an English-speaking model as the gold standard and overlook their own local or regional wisdoms. We need to remember that encouraging young people to join a privileged English-speaking élite educated in foreign universities is only one of many possible educational options.


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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:20AM (19 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:20AM (#1034752) Journal

    I'm just saying that East Asia languages might dominate communications in the new empire.

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:38AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:38AM (#1034759)

    Having lived in China, English definitely isn't a lingua franca there by any means. AFAIK, that holds true for Japan also.

  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 11 2020, @12:08PM (1 child)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 11 2020, @12:08PM (#1034856) Journal
    If the East Asian language is Mandarin. Empires have multiple languages because they absorb regions with other language speakers. But they have the power to standardize. And China is standardizing on Mandarin.
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:25PM (#1035132)

      When Mandarin Becomes the Global Language of Education We Risk Losing Other, Better, Ways of Learning.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 11 2020, @01:42PM (14 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @01:42PM (#1034893) Journal

    No, don't really see that happening any time soon. English replaced French as the international language because England colonized a large swath of the Earth and held it long enough to train the civil servants to use it as the language of administration, then tagged off with the United States which is the world's sole superpower. China, Korea, or Japan would probably need to do something like that to make their languages the lingua franca.

    There are a couple more wrinkles for them to overcome, too. First, Mandarin is not even the lingua franca of China. Officially it is, and is branded as "common speech" (普通话), but on the ground people outside the northeast tend to speak their own dialects, be it Cantonese, Shanghainese, Fukienese, or what-have-you. Second, Japan and China hate each other, will never willingly accept the hegemony of the other, much less will ever speak each other's language. Korea, the man in the middle, is a wily player but they have a tradition of independence (주체) that indicates they'd resist both of the others.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:12PM (4 children)

      by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:12PM (#1034943)

      > the United States which is the world's sole superpower
      _military_ superpower. We've got some competition when it comes to economic and political superpowers.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 11 2020, @04:37PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @04:37PM (#1034998) Journal

        "Superpower" comprises those areas, plus cultural hegemony and technological prowess, which the US also enjoys. China, notably, is trying to extend its economic power to other spheres but has only really succeeded at technological prowess so far; it remains to be seen if the Chinese coronavirus will blunt its accession to other areas as well as its current economic power. Despite external appearances, Chinese society is fractious.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Wednesday August 12 2020, @12:54AM (1 child)

          by ChrisMaple (6964) on Wednesday August 12 2020, @12:54AM (#1035298)

          The coronavirus is a single speedbump. In 10 years, it won't be thought of as anything other than another example of mainland China being a disease incubator.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 12 2020, @12:57AM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday August 12 2020, @12:57AM (#1035299) Journal

            You might be right. But there are signs that a structural reconfiguration, and possibly a second cold war, are brewing; the coronavirus could catalyze that.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday August 11 2020, @11:00PM

        by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @11:00PM (#1035240)

        We've got some competition when it comes to economic and political superpowers.

        Our kids are watching your movies, and listening to your rock n roll though.

        Bands like The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin, for instance.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:15PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:15PM (#1034946)

      English replaced French because Germany, France and England fought each other into the ground in WW2, while the US was unscathed.

      • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Freeman on Tuesday August 11 2020, @07:18PM

        by Freeman (732) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @07:18PM (#1035103) Journal

        I wouldn't say unscathed, Pearl Harbor did happen, but that was a fairly strategic strike at a military target. Not like carpet bombing taking out vast swathes of our historical buildings and cultural heritage.

        All things considered, things would have turned out far worse for most of Europe (except, maybe Germany), if the USA hadn't gotten involved when it did. Germany had quite the steamroller going for a good portion of the war.

        --
        Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:27PM (#1035136)

        German was the language of science until the 2 world wars made German lingua nofuckinwayqua.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:26PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @03:26PM (#1034952)

      "Chinese" is only a language because China is a country. The only difference between a dialect and a language is that a language has its own army. The various Chinese "dialects" are no more closely related than the Romance languages of Europe.

      What's more, there are a lot of speakers of Chinese languages, but most of them are Chinese, or recent Chinese ancestry. People all over the world learn English (and Spanish).

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:07PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:07PM (#1035017) Journal

        "Chinese" is only a language because China is a country.

        "Chinese" as the name of the language is a misapprehension by non-Chinese. Foreigners think "Chinese" is a monolithic language and ethnic group. They don't know that term comprises many dialects, as you pointed out, when what they mostly mean is Mandarin; they don't know the term comprises many ethnicities, when what they mostly mean is Han. But "dialect" is even a tricky term here because while the written form of the language is the same, the spoken forms are mutually unintelligible.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @04:58PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2020, @04:58PM (#1035012)

      English replaced French as the international language

      Note that in that same epoch, the international language of science was German and not French.
      If your chosen profession needs an university education at all, you need the language that the scientific output in that field is in. All the SJWs in the world climbing to the rooftops and screaming "DIVERSITY!!!" till hoarse, will not change that plain fact one single bit.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:11PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:11PM (#1035018) Journal

        Note that in that same epoch, the international language of science was German and not French.

        That's debatable. In chemistry, maybe.

        But you raise a good point: for some areas there are different, specific common tongues. For example, if you're gonna move in the world of opera you're still gonna need a command of Italian. English wraps around all those, though.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:56PM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @05:56PM (#1035045) Journal

      First, Mandarin is not even the lingua franca of China. Officially it is, and is branded as "common speech" (普通话), but on the ground people outside the northeast tend to speak their own dialects, be it Cantonese, Shanghainese, Fukienese, or what-have-you.

      Kinda why I used the loose term "East Asian" instead of "Mandarin" or Chinese" specifically

      Japan and China hate each other

      Heh, more than we'll ever know...

      But you're right. Asia didn't expand globally like the Brits did, but what the Brits did through war, China, or Asia in general, might accomplish with business.

      A country that makes the victim pay for his own execution is bound to be very successful /s

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2, Touché) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:46PM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday August 11 2020, @08:46PM (#1035151) Journal

      I also use the term "East Asia" from Orwell's map, the most accurate anyone will find today

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 12 2020, @04:21AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 12 2020, @04:21AM (#1035388)

    Unlikely, not enough syllables and the writing system is unwieldy at best. Its not a bad language, but it's never going to be a major language of interchange based on the barrier to entry alone.