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NSA spying exposed by Snowden was illegal and not very useful, court says:
The National Security Agency's bulk collection of phone metadata from telecom providers was illegal, a federal appeals court ruled yesterday. The court also found that the phone-metadata collection exposed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden was not necessary for the arrests of terror suspects in a case that the US government cited in defending the necessity of the surveillance program.
The ruling by the US Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the 2013 convictions of "four members of the Somali diaspora for sending, or conspiring to send, $10,900 to Somalia to support a foreign terrorist organization." But the Somalis' challenge of the NSA spying program yielded some significant findings. In part, the ineffectiveness of the phone-metadata collection helped ensure that the convictions would be upheld because the illegally collected metadata evidence wasn't significant enough to taint evidence that was legally collected by the government. The government got what it needed from a wiretap of defendant Basaaly Saeed Moalin's phone, not from the mass collection of metadata.
The court's three-judge panel unanimously "held that the metadata collection exceeded the scope of Congress's authorization in 50 U.S.C. § 1861, which required the government to make a showing of relevance to a particular authorized investigation before collecting the records, and that the program therefore violated that section of FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act]," the ruling said.
The judges also wrote that "the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans, including at least one of the defendants." But the judges didn't make a ruling on the potential Fourth Amendment violation because it wasn't necessary to decide the case. While "the Fourth Amendment requires notice to a criminal defendant" when prosecutors want to use evidence from surveillance at trial, the judges "did not decide whether the government failed to prove any required notice in this case because the lack of such notice did not prejudice the defendants," the ruling said.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:05PM (10 children)
It gave us something to talk about, you know, like the weather. I mean, nobody's going to jail or anything for it, are they? So what the hell, how 'about them Cubs?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday September 04 2020, @09:56AM (1 child)
> nobody's going to jail or anything for it
Nobody except Snowden?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @12:40PM
It's been ages, but isn't this one also the one that ultimately got Assange in all that trouble?
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 04 2020, @04:43PM (7 children)
Think for a minute about what you are actually advocating here. Consider other prominent questions of Constitutionality:
Take Marriage Equality as an example. When gays were denied marriage certificates their Constitutional rights were violated according to the Supreme Court. Should every clerk that refused to issue a marriage certificate be thrown in jail?
What about Segregation? Should every white government official that violated a black person's Constitutional rights be thrown in jail?
Seems like if the answer was yes we would never make any progress in this country.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday September 04 2020, @04:52PM (6 children)
And why shouldn't they be punished for violating the law? Just like many other cases, you don't have to throw them in jail on a first offense. They do it twice, you nail them to the wall. No, tell you what, let's be generous like Biden, and give them three strikes. Happy?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 04 2020, @04:59PM (5 children)
Maybe there could be a "willfullness" standard like e.g. Safety/Environmental law.
E.g. if a reasonable person would conclude it's a violation then the punishment goes from a slap on the wrist to something more significant. That makes enforcement messy, though.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday September 04 2020, @05:13PM (4 children)
Doesn't have to be messy. The rules are pretty straight up. Everybody has to be treated the same. The Sword of Damocles is a perfectly cromulent option. Contrary to your beliefs, progress is much more likely if the rules are enforced. We need to put a much higher price on power than we do now. No more immunity
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 04 2020, @05:22PM (3 children)
Yeah... proving in a court of law what someone should have known does, in fact, need to be messy.
I was involved in a lawsuit that hinged on the question of willfulness out in the real world so I've seen exactly how messy it is, and needs, to be.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday September 04 2020, @05:36PM (2 children)
The "mess" comes from corruption. We are responsible for oversight of the system. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" as we are always told. And people in this position are expected to know the rules, or they are not qualified, to me anyway. A second violation proves willfulness. There really shouldn't be a chance for a third attempt. It would only confirm the person is incorrigible, and probably should at least be sentenced to wear an ankle bracelet.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 04 2020, @05:54PM (1 child)
The mess was caused by "innocent until proven guilty."
God, your black and white fantasy land is so boring. Join reality, you'll notice it's infinite shades of gray which is much more interesting.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday September 04 2020, @06:22PM
Make all the fun you want. When I see the choices you leave us for president, I find you quite amusing, in a tragic sort of way
Join reality? We are suffering your reality when you make it ours. And gray? Please! Don't you want even a hint of color?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..