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posted by CoolHand on Tuesday April 21 2015, @05:12PM   Printer-friendly
from the dr-jekyll-or-mr-hyde dept.

Under Steve Ballmer's reign, Microsoft Open Technologies was founded as a subsidiary of Microsoft. It is now being shut down and folded into Microsoft under Satya Nadella. The subsidiary, staffed with an interoperability strategy team tasked with extending Redmond's open source initiatives, will be embraced back into into the mainstream of the company.

MS Open Tech's president Jean Paoli said "It's now time for MS Open Tech to rejoin Microsoft Corp., and help the company take its next steps in deepening its engagement with open source and open standards." Some claim that a separate subsidiary is no longer needed. Microsoft could easily be the world's biggest vendor of open source software, which is probably one reason some people don't like the term...

Paoli goes on to say:

Team members will play a broader role in the open advocacy mission with teams across the company," he said. "The Programs Office will scale the learnings and practices in working with open source and open standards that have been developed in MS Open Tech across the whole company. Additionally, the Microsoft Open Technology Programs Office will provide tools and services to help Microsoft teams and engineers engage directly with open source communities, create successful Microsoft open source projects, and streamline the process of accepting community contributions into Microsoft open source projects."

Roy Schestowitz at TechRights has a different view of MSFT's recent actions:

"Not much as changed except pretense (face change).

Microsoft dumps its proxy (misleadingly named 'Open Tech') and other attacks on Free software persist from the inside, often through so-called 'experts' whose agenda is to sell proprietary software

Microsoft's long-term assault on GNU/Linux is in some ways worse than ever before. Changing Ballmer's face with another is about as effective as swapping Bush for Obama. Things are only getting worse, even if it's branded differently. The attacks on users' rights (DRM, blobs, spying) have exacerbated. It's just not as visible as before (like the infamous "Get the Facts" marketing campaign), it's more subtle or altogether covert.

There are concrete sign of Microsoft's strategy to destroy FOSS from the inside (entryism) not quite succeeding, which leads to a Plan B, like infecting Android with proprietary spyware, controlling GNU/Linux through Azure, etc.

"For Microsoft, "Open Tech" shutting down is somewhat symbolic, even poetic.""So," some people ask, "what's new at the 'new' Microsoft?"

There's nothing new except worsening levels of aggression.

So how should this new move be viewed?

Is Microsoft bringing the subsidiary in-house to more fully integrate open source in view of a challenging market landscape, or are they surreptitiously trying to take down the open source world from within, using their old tactics?

 
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by hubie on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:10PM

    by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:10PM (#173650) Journal

    Given Microsoft's history of corporate behavior and very vocal opposition to FOSS in general (and GNU in particular), I don't see how you can argue that is "sensible thinking." I would argue that sensible thinking would compel one to not trust the company until they show a deliberate and sustained commitment on par or better than what a company like IBM has done. I say on par or better because the bar should be higher for them; they have spent decades digging the karmic hole they are in.

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  • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:36PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:36PM (#173661)

    Bill Gates is still the #1 stockholder.
    Nadella would never have gotten the job without BillG's approval.
    Anyone who thinks M$'s business model has changed in the slightest is delusional.
    It's still lawyers and salesmen specifying the software and coders trying to make foolish things work in their proprietary products.
    (Can you say "Font rendering in Ring 0?" I knew you could.)

    When M$ stops including a PATENTS.TXT file with their "open" code, that will signal the changing of their methods--and the end of that company.

    The original title for my submission:
    Tired of Pretending to be Nice to FOSS, MSFT Shutters "Open Tech" [soylentnews.org]

    -- gewg_

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @07:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @07:43AM (#173870)

      When M$ stops including a PATENTS.TXT file with their "open" code, that will signal the changing of their methods--and the end of that company.

      I though you must be kidding but Lo and behold! e.g. https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource/blob/master/PATENTS.TXT [github.com]

      ... incredible. And reading the file does not things better make, you notice that only unmodified code is covered by their promise.

      That is stupid, arrogant, misleading and hostile. Yup, it's the same old M$ we're used to.

  • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:37PM

    by arashi no garou (2796) on Tuesday April 21 2015, @08:37PM (#173663)

    I was trying to be funny but you just proved my point. There is no "maybe" or middle ground with people like you, it's only black and white. Microsoft could open source Windows and all the rest of their products, cure cancer, end world hunger, and generate world peace, and it still wouldn't be good enough for you because of past bad acts under a different leader.

    By your logic, the current German government is full of nothing but Nazis trying to bleach the world, because 70 years ago some guy named Hitler ran Germany that way, and you won't be convinced otherwise until they change the national language to Hebrew and fly the Jewish flag on every building (and maybe not even then).

    But hey, it's much easier to just blindly hate and flame on than consider that the company might be sincere in their efforts to move past that dark history. Do I trust them 100%? Not at all, never have. But I'm willing to admit that they have been doing good things lately; I'm not one to lie to myself and the world just so I can feel oh so superior.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday April 21 2015, @09:55PM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday April 21 2015, @09:55PM (#173698) Homepage
      > Microsoft could open source Windows and all the rest of their products, cure cancer, end world hunger, and generate world peace, and it still wouldn't be good enough for you

      That is not a claim based on evidence. You have prejudged him. Why do you express such prejudiced views?

      > it's much easier to just blindly hate and flame

      Oh, yeah, that's why.

      Textbook P.K.B.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Tuesday April 21 2015, @11:50PM

        by arashi no garou (2796) on Tuesday April 21 2015, @11:50PM (#173748)

        That is not a claim based on evidence. You have prejudged him. Why do you express such prejudiced views?

        And yet in his reply to me he does the same, going so far as to assume I'm a hardcore Microsoft user defending my favorite company (newsflash: They aren't, far from it). Why haven't you called him out yet? Could it be because you hold the same black-and-white view of Microsoft as him and much of Soylent, so you're circling the wagons?

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by RedGreen on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:30AM

          by RedGreen (888) on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:30AM (#173767)

          "And yet in his reply to me he does the same, going so far as to assume I'm a hardcore Microsoft user defending my favorite company"

          Yet you continue to post like your head is stuck up MS ass defending them at all cost. MS deserves absolutely no leeway the bar should be at least twice as high as any other is held too for their past scummy behavior. Even then they had better be over that bar for a couple of decades before they get any break for it. Same goes for their slimy past partner in crime Intel I hold them both in utter contempt for the garbage they jointly have spewed on the computer industry over the years.

          --
          "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by arashi no garou on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:21AM

            by arashi no garou (2796) on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:21AM (#173785)

            The only thing I'm defending is the concept of a middle ground. As I said in another comment, take Microsoft out of the picture and drop in something like systemd and I'd say the same thing: There is room for improvement. Even though I don't like what systemd represents, I still consider the possibility that it can become something good. I don't just blindly say "I fucking hate it and it will never ever be a good thing" because I can't predict the future, and neither can anyone else.

            Since you're so quick to put me in a box, I'll put you in one too: I think you and many other people are taking this to religious extremes, and that's a dangerous thing in any situation. You're no different than the stereotypical birther types with the "Piss on Obama" bumper sticker and confederate flag in the rear window; you're always going to spew hatred and disdain even if you have no clue what you're talking about.

            • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 22 2015, @04:52PM

              by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday April 22 2015, @04:52PM (#174048) Journal

              you're always going to spew hatred and disdain even if you have no clue what you're talking about.

              They are a business, busy protecting their business... and they know the only way to protect it is to SCREW EVERYONE ELSE unless it protects their business.

              They will screw linux, apple, minix, unix, (EVEN themselves-- if it means protecting that business).

              I have seen nothing that says they are a 'nicer, friendlier, more open, fuzzy and wuzzy little teddy bears' business that is willing to work with free open source without trying to screw everyone else but themselves, because they are protecting their business.

              They are a business... 'screw everyone else!' is their motto (as it should be, i guess (and as it legally is (the way i understand it) because they have shareholders))... but don't put them on an angelic pedestal.

              They will fuck open source, linux, etc if they get a chance (if it means protecting their business).
              They would let linux users fuck THEM if it meant protecting their business.

              They are a business and are in business for THEMSELVES!

              Screw everyone else... if it protects their business... this is what it ALL boils down to.

              --
              --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
              • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Thursday April 23 2015, @01:38AM

                by arashi no garou (2796) on Thursday April 23 2015, @01:38AM (#174176)

                don't put them on an angelic pedestal

                I said "there's room for improvement" and in other comments I've made it abundantly clear that I'm a Slackware geek who is hoping that Microsoft might be changing for the better, but I'm not convinced yet. How is that putting them on any kind of pedestal, angelic or otherwise?

                As so many others have, you're proving my original point that even if it could be shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that Microsoft is a brand new company that is honestly doing good, you and most others here would just plug your ears and cry foul for the sake of it. And just to be clear, no I don't trust Microsoft, I'm just willing to acknowledge that they are trying to improve, because it's obvious they are trying. Whether they succeed is another story, and to be honest I'm not holding my breath. But I'm also not throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

                • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday April 24 2015, @12:26AM

                  by Gaaark (41) on Friday April 24 2015, @12:26AM (#174487) Journal

                  Sorry... maybe i didn't explain what i meant:

                  They may (to you) seem to be 'improving', but to me that is only because they feel it is in their best interests to do that.

                  As soon as they feel it is no longer in their best interests (or is no longer necessary if they regain their monopoly), they will stop. They will have to, because in the end they have to report to their shareholders. If they are doing something the shareholders feel is not in their best interests, they will rattle the cage and the company (Microsoft) will back off.

                  Simply put, they are a company on the stock market, owned by the shareholders and must do what the shareholders want (aka, what Bill/Ballmer want).

                  If Ballmer, etc say to stop open sourcing things, they will... if the stocks price drops, they will stop.

                  And cheers to you for using Slack! :)

                  --
                  --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
                  • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Friday April 24 2015, @01:21AM

                    by arashi no garou (2796) on Friday April 24 2015, @01:21AM (#174499)

                    *sigh*

                    I didn't say they are improving. This is what I said:

                    I'm just willing to acknowledge that they are trying to improve, because it's obvious they are trying. Whether they succeed is another story, and to be honest I'm not holding my breath.

                    It boggles the mind that I can't even talk about an effort that I observe (and don't quite trust yet) without everyone assuming that I'm a big fat fucking shill. That's the kind of preconceived opinion that stifles any real conversation about a topic.

                    And I'm not saying you're wrong; in fact (and if anyone cared to actually read what I've been writing they would have already realized this) I fully expect Microsoft to fail or at least mishandle this whole pro-open-source push. I've said since the beginning that I don't fully trust it. I am just willing to acknowledge that, if it's for real, it can be a good thing. And for that I'm being lambasted, called a shill, an apologist, a liar, and many other names just for daring to hope that a bad actor will clean up their act?

                    You know what, fuck it. Don't take this personally Gaaark, because you have been civil in our conversation and I'm not addressing you here, but I'm done trying to have an adult conversation with a bunch of children. I've been ignoring the "hive mind" mentality here since before I made my account, but this is getting ridiculous. This place has devolved into a circle-jerk of Reddit sized proportions. Peace out, and for fuck's sake, grow up guys!

    • (Score: -1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2015, @10:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2015, @10:37PM (#173723)

      First: That would be really embarrassing for them.

      MICROS~1 got caught re-using GPL'd code for their Hyper-V thing and they were required to hand over their GPL-derived stuff.

      MICROS~1's effort was such a complete mess, before folding it into the kernel[1], the 1st thing gregkh needed to do was strip out 60 percent of the code done by Redmond's clueless amateurs.
      It was simply bloat. [googleusercontent.com] (orig)[ [unixwiz.net]

      .
      Second: No, M$ absolutely could NOT make one of their cash cows open.
      It would be the end of M$.
      Their entire business model is based on closed code, undocumented protocols, patents, NDAs--aka SECRECY.

      [1] ...and shortly thereafter, M$ stopped supporting their junk (which had made it into the Linux kernel).
      ...and, because M$ wouldn't maintain it, Hyper-V was dumped entirely by OpenStack in 2012. [google.com]

      -- gewg_

    • (Score: 2) by hubie on Tuesday April 21 2015, @10:51PM

      by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 21 2015, @10:51PM (#173732) Journal

      I find it somewhat amusing and ironic that you paint me as a black-and-white person in such a black-and-white manner. Certainly the road to redemption begins with good deeds and actions, but forgive my jaundiced eye in questioning ones commitment if one only shows up on Sunday and leaves before Communion is done.

      I think they must teach a different form of logic these days because I can't say that I can follow your conclusions regarding the German government. First off, I can't say that I would go as far as you in comparing the Nazis to Microsoft, and I would have to presume you must liken Hitler to Gates in that regard since they both were the heads of their institutions during those dark times, but it is your simile not mine. In any event, you might not be aware that an entirely new government was established following the Potsdam Conference in 1945. Before an official government was established, the country was run by the Allied Control Council. A whole series of laws were passed that not only dissolved the National Socialist Party, but it banned it forevermore from returning. Germany went on to become an economic powerhouse of Europe and a wonderful place for the arts and sciences. It is a very interesting part of history and I recommend you might want to shore up your many deficiencies in this area, but for all of these reasons (and many more, which I won't list for brevity), I not only do not consider the current German government full of Nazis, but it does not follow by the logic that I learned back in school. You might be using that "fuzzy logic" that I keep hearing about in CS circles.

      However, when in Rome as they say, if you'll allow me to invoke your cognitive and argumentative skills and provide my own deleterious simile, I would have to say that you are like an abused spouse. No matter how much he beats you and belittles you, everything is ok because THIS time he said he was sorry and that it would never happen again. You know your friends and family are wrong when they tell you he's no good for you, because YOU can see the good that is in him and he SWEARS it will never happen again.

      Being rather perplexed, I read my post several times and I am at a loss. I will need your assistance to identify the blind hate or flames in my comments about exercising caution.

      I assure you that I do try to recognize my character flaws and I do fear that perhaps age has withered my ability to see the best light in a person. I admire the fact that, as GW Bush did with Putin, you are able to look into Satya Nadella's eyes and get a sense of his soul, a man deeply committed to open source and the best interests of the FOSS community.

      • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Tuesday April 21 2015, @11:47PM

        by arashi no garou (2796) on Tuesday April 21 2015, @11:47PM (#173746)

        Flowery speech doesn't make you right, it only makes you appear pretentious, so I'm going to ignore your "history lesson" since you obviously missed my point.

        However, when in Rome as they say, if you'll allow me to invoke your cognitive and argumentative skills and provide my own deleterious simile, I would have to say that you are like an abused spouse. No matter how much he beats you and belittles you, everything is ok because THIS time he said he was sorry and that it would never happen again. You know your friends and family are wrong when they tell you he's no good for you, because YOU can see the good that is in him and he SWEARS it will never happen again.

        You assume much about me. I've been a steady Slackware user since about 1999, as you would be able to see from my past posts here if you chose to. It's only in the last six months that I've started looking at Microsoft as something that might be worth considering again for daily use, though I haven't made that jump yet (and likely won't for some time, if ever). I'm no Microsoft apologist, I'm simply willing to acknowledge that they are trying to improve. Hell, I was a torch bearing Microsoft hater for a very long time, and had banned it from my home during the XP and Vista years. It's only in the past few years that I've come to accept Windows 7 as good enough to play games on. I do confess that I prefer Windows Phone for a mobile device because Android still isn't stable enough, and because fuck Apple. I still do everything else on Slackware (and at the present moment, Antergos as I wanted to see how far along systemd is these days).

        On another point, your simile (and it was actually more of a metaphor, but since similes are just narrow metaphors, I'll leave that one alone) is extremely flawed. A spousal abuse situation is deeply personal between two people; the situation you are trying to create out of it is more about a large company and the millions of people using its products, hence my earlier metaphor about a corrupt, abusive government and its oppressed people. In fact, I see your "simile" as extremely bad taste and a poor choice if for no other reason than it belittles victims of spousal abuse.

        But you probably didn't think about that, since you appear to believe that you are correct no matter what.

        • (Score: 2) by hubie on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:29AM

          by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:29AM (#173765) Journal

          so I'm going to ignore your "history lesson"

          'Tis a shame that you are going to pass on this opportunity to better yourself. One can only lead a horse to water . . . But my history lesson goes to the whole point of this comment. If we wish to stick with post-war Germany (and this is where the history lesson is very important), I will concede the point that I would would probably think differently of Microsoft if they were defeated and divided up by Google, Apple, Oracle, and (insert some other big computer company here), completely dissolved, banned from reforming, and everyone who worked there replaced. But since all that happened to the Nazis, I still don't see how you might think I could confuse the current German government with the Nazis.

          . . . I'll leave that one alone

          It is just as well, though through your correction I was hoping to see if your mastery of the finer points of grammar were equal to your mastery of world history. I find it very confusing however. My simile is really a narrow metaphor, but that really is a simile, but it is not because it is only a "simile".

          In fact, I see your "simile" as extremely bad taste and a poor choice if for no other reason than it belittles victims of spousal abuse.

          Indeed, it is in bad taste. I was afraid it was a bit too nuanced, but if you recall, I was exchanging one deleterious "simile" with another. Though I am not a fan of Microsoft by any stretch, recall that it was you comparing Gates to Hitler not me. Personally, I think you really overstepped yourself there.

          You assume much about me.

          I actually assume nothing about you. I can see you might come to that conclusion if I used phrases like "There is no "maybe" or middle ground with people like you", or "it still wouldn't be good enough for you" or "it's much easier to just blindly hate and flame on" or even "I'm not one to lie to myself and the world just so I can feel oh so superior", but I wouldn't say those kind of things because they would portray me in a rude manner, and I try to avoid doing that.

          However, I still need your help in identifying the blind hate and flames in my original post. I am simply perplexed how my comment, which was just applying the idiom once bitten, twice shy to the situation, would elicit a belligerent response from you filled with such vitriol. Clearly I touched a nerve, but I am at a loss to figure out what it could be.

          • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:11AM

            by arashi no garou (2796) on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:11AM (#173783)

            I actually assume nothing about you.

            If that were true, why the comparison to a fractured relationship? Where is the basis for that? No, you assumed incorrectly that I'm somehow beholden to Microsoft and you built a logical fallacy around it that doesn't hold up. You attempted to belittle me by comparing me to a "poor clueless battered woman" (to paraphrase you) and it didn't work, so now you claim that you didn't assume anything. Backpedaling like that doesn't become you.

            Clearly I touched a nerve, but I am at a loss to figure out what it could be.

            You did, and you've made it clear throughout this conversation that you are indeed clueless, so let's take Microsoft out of the picture for a moment. Let's look at something like systemd. There are those vehemently opposed to it, and those who accept and use it daily with glee. Two extremes, right? But is there room for people who don't care about it one way or the other, and is there room for yet other people who may not like what it represents but can accept that it likely has a permanent foothold in the future of GNU/Linux? Of course there is. Anyone who feels that you must either love or hate systemd with no middle ground is obviously blinding themselves to the reality that the world isn't black or white. Now, I have no idea how you feel about systemd, but I can tell you how I feel. I'm very wary of it, I don't like the politics surrounding it so I've stuck with Slackware as an easy way to stay out of it. Lately I've been trying out Antergos to get a feel for it and see if my opinion might change.

            And that's where my nerve is struck: You have made it clear you are simply unwilling to accept that Microsoft could ever do something good; your mind is already made up and you are blind and deaf to any other possibility. That is bordering on a religious fervor, and it's a dangerous position to take. If you shut out the concept that something even might happen, you'll never believe it when it does happen, even if it's staring you in the face. I'm not saying Microsoft is suddenly a great company doing great things. All I've ever said is that they seem to be trying to improve, and you, gewg, FatPhil and everyone else plugging your ears and screaming "nah nah nah I can't hear you" doesn't make that any less true and only makes you appear shortsighted and single minded.

            • (Score: 2) by hubie on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:56AM

              by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:56AM (#173810) Journal

              From my mere statement of once bitten, twice shy, or fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me (or whichever flavor of that idiom you prefer), you have exposed me as the rapscallion I am and have laid bare my dangerous religious fervor. I concede all points to you and I will retire from this discussion. I don't have the fortitude to discover what other unnamed evils lurk within my soul that would be betrayed by a few more utterances from me. À chacun son goût.

              Since you will not help me improve myself and you refuse to point out or even address the flames and blind hatred in my original post [soylentnews.org] that set fire to this tinder, I will have to end it here, but I will not get the opportunity to learn what it was I said in that post that garnered your virulent malevolence.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:41PM (#173960)

            "However, I still need your help in identifying the blind hate and flames in my original post. "

            That would require him to 1) admit that he was wrong and 2) apologize for being a dick. From his tone I'm pretty sure he's never done either of those things willingly in his life.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:09AM (#173782)

          You assume much about me. I've been a steady Slackware user since about 1999, as you would be able to see from my past posts here if you chose to. It's only in the last six months that I've started looking at Microsoft as something that might be worth considering again for daily use,

          So, how much does the Dark Side pay these days? No, seriously, I could use some extra income.

          • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:25AM

            by arashi no garou (2796) on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:25AM (#173786)

            Pay? Hell, I paid for my Slackware DVDs, bud! Sure, I could have downloaded them for free, that's the beauty of open source software. But if you're going to join the Church of Slack, you may as well support it too. Trust Bob, he knows what he's talking about.