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posted by
LaminatorX
on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:14AM
from the Bruce-Schneier-knows-Alice-and-Bob's-shared-secret dept.
from the Bruce-Schneier-knows-Alice-and-Bob's-shared-secret dept.
Starting with Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden, Bruce Schneier has attempted compiling a list of recent/current US intelligence community whistle-blowers.
He counts 6 (possibly 7) of them.
This Warren Buffet quote seems relevant
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks
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Can anyone remember when the times were not hard, and money not scarce?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:16AM
I tell our illegal aliens, "You only get one name with me. You can't go home to Mexico, then come back with another name, and expect me to use it."
Ditto for BRADLEY MANNING.
(Score: -1, Troll) by jmorris on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:36AM
I really don't care what the guy calls himself. His treason is far more important, whether caused by the same mental instability that is causing his gender confusion or not. A brick wall, a cigarette, a blindfold and a last word is all the world need see of him as far as I am concerned. Whether he is dressed in pants or a dress for the festivities is not something I worry overly much about.
In the end we will see our inability to keep national secrets continue as long as we treat it as something unimportant. Start giving them swift (but open and fair) trials and prompt executions and the 'leak' problem will end. If somebody feels a need to 'blow the whistle' on wrongdoing they have superior officers for that and all else failing they could talk to a Congressman on one of the oversight committees who is cleared to handle the classified nature of these sort of leaks. Beyond that, Pfc Manning was a goddamned enlisted man, he isn't paid to pass moral judgment on the actions of his duly appointed (by the civilian Congress) officers, he is paid to salute and carry on. The big picture is above his pay grade, he shouldn't even expect to be seeing the whole picture from that far down.
As for the WikiLeaks side, Assange should have been shot years ago. He isn't a U.S. Citizen and is waging open war against our government, again, back when we took things like that seriously it never would have happened in the first place because it would have been clear how suicidal it was. To reestablish that we are probably going to have to go all Putin on a few of these idiots and take em out. And after his defection to Russia, putting a bullet (or to really send the message some Polonium) into Snowden should be on the table if he doesn't come back and take the judgement of his countrymen.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:41AM
I'd rather Snowden did not face "justice". If leakers know they can get away with it, maybe they will be more likely to share and undermine the surveillance state. Assange is an activist, not a brown Islamic target for your drones.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:57AM
Every Enlisted swears an oath to defend the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic, and soldiers are explicitly told not to follow illegal (unconstitutional) laws. If a soldier feels that his leaders are doing illegal or unconstitutional thing, it absolutely is his duty to act on that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:00AM
Sorry, meant "told not to follow illegal (unconstitutional) orders" not "illegal laws".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @04:23AM
What unconstitutional orders was he given? All he did was mass copy classified files and dump them. There was no rhyme nor reason to the files he took. He wasn't told to do anything illegal. What came out of the files he dumped was at best embarrassing to the US or its foreign partners, and at worst gave out foreign intelligence methods and info, but nothing was illegal. Parroting the "uncovering illegal behavior" doesn't make it right, it just makes you sound stupid. Manning betrayed his oath and his trust and his honour, and the worst part is that it was all in the name of Assange's ego. You'd like to think if you are going to have to sit in jail for a long time, you'd be there for some kind of noble cause.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday April 22 2015, @09:10PM
You can't spend 24/7 training and conditioning soldiers to absolutely obey orders and levy heavy punishments for even minor infractions and then slap an admonition on at the end that they don't have to obey illegal orders and expect that to mean anything. The commanders know good and well that the average soldier is not a lawyer and does not have a very clear idea of what an "illegal" order is. If they did, it would be impossible for places like Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib to exist.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:02AM
Start giving them swift (but open and fair) trials and prompt executions and the 'leak' problem will end.
Your support of government thugs executing captured people and your belief that people who leak information about the government's wrongdoing (You likely use very strange definitions of "wrongdoing" to get around this, such as by pretending that foreigners aren't people.) are bad shows that you'd be better off in North Korea, rather than a country that's supposed to be (not is) 'the land of the free and the home of the brave'.
If somebody feels a need to 'blow the whistle' on wrongdoing they have superior officers for that and all else failing they could talk to a Congressman on one of the oversight committees who is cleared to handle the classified nature of these sort of leaks.
Bullshit. The only proper channel is The People. By reporting it to people above you (who are very likely corrupt, since our government is full of corrupt scumbags), you risk everything being swept under the rug, and you risk being destroyed or let go yourself. If that happens, you can never report the government's wrongdoing. And morally, The People should be the first to know. Therefore, you should release the information to everyone.
he is paid to salute and carry on.
Well, I'm glad that not all of them are mindless drones like you want them to be. That's not patriotism; that's a show of support for police states everywhere.
He isn't a U.S. Citizen and is waging open war against our government
I sincerely hope your entire post is a troll or a parody of some sort, because it is simply laughable.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:33PM
Well, if reporting to your boss fails, and your boss's boss fails, you eventually end up going to the top boss. The top boss of everyone in congress and everyone who gets a government paycheck is The People, so reporting to the people is reporting it to your boss (or your boss's boss).
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @01:36AM
You are a problematic shitlord.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:01AM
You are a problematic shitlord.
Well, I for one welcome our new problematic shitlords! I think. But how would we have know about them without heroes like Manning and Snowden and Dick Cheney? (If you recall, Dick "Dick" Cheney alerted the nation to the nefarious actions of the CIA in trying stop the spread of nuclear materials, under the command of Valerie Plame! Thanks, Dick!)
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by jmorris on Wednesday April 22 2015, @02:39AM
If you recall,
DickRichard "Dick" Cheney alerted the nation to the nefarious actions of the CIA in trying stop the spread of nuclear materials, under the command of Valerie Plame!Ok, you are bringing this up years after the facts came out so it is obvious you are obsessed on this fantasy. When the facts came out we all learned what the special prosecutor knew from day one. That nobody in the office of the Vice President leaked a damned thing, that in fact the leaker came forward instantly and identified himself as Richard Armitage working for Sec State Powell. That truth didn't serve the Narrative so nobody had the integrity (I include President Bush in the halls of the dishonorable as well) to call off the witch hunt and reveal these facts to the public, instead subjecting the country and some dedicated people to a life changing persecution.
Now lets deal with YOU. You have two options. One, you can claim to be a retard and thus ignorant of the well publicized ending to the Plame Affair and excuse yourself from further adult conversation. Two, you can stand exposed as bearing false witness, knowingly and with malice in your heart. Chose, beg forgiveness and then depart for you can add nothing to any discussion of serious affairs. Return in a year, hopefully wiser and having studied basic morality.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 22 2015, @03:17AM
That nobody in the office of the Vice President leaked a damned thing,
Really! Then none of them had to do jail time, then!
And are you really saying that Dick "Dick" Cheney is not a heroic whistle-blower, and that instead he attempted to cover up nefarious attempts by the State Department to reveal that the entire narrative on yellowcake from Niger was a complete fabrication designed to justify the invasion of a sovereign country in contravention of the Articles of the United Nations and the Principles of Nuremberg and the Treaty of Westphalia? I am sadly disappointed to have my fantasy so rudely evaporated. But at least we have Chelsea and Snowden and those six or seven loyal Americans who serve humanity as well as their country. Malice in my heart? All I am doing in mirroring the malice already in this thread.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @04:10AM
Don't forget the malice that is going on with the moderation too. Don't fuck with the sacred cows!
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 22 2015, @04:27AM
Don't forget the malice that is going on with the moderation too.
Anti_gewg_! Is that you? So nice to have you join us. But as usual you are wrong about this. I have the utmost faith in my fellow Soylentils to moderate fairly and in the best interests of the site. Gosh knows they have reined me in on occasion, when I stepped over the line. Now some people seem to always be stepping over lines, and not taking the hint of the gentle remonstrance of being modded down. Such persons may find it better to refrain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @05:06AM
Your faith must be based on not being in the habit of questioning the sacred cows. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. ("You are a problematic shitlord" is +2 Informative?)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @05:26AM
Oh, no. People on this website tend to disagree with position X. I'm being oppressed! Sacred cows!!
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 22 2015, @05:36AM
Do you see the violence inherent in the (modding) system? Actually, I welcomed the shitlords, was that a mistake? Now I am not even sure who they are. So we need a test. ATTN: Shitlords! a) Bradley or b) Chelsea? And no, we will not hold you to be tranny fearing threatened homosexual if you answer one way or the other. But it will be obvious. Nope, not telling which one! But we have several Solylentils go over the edge already! What is your pleasure? (Was that just really, really, the wrong way to phrase the question?)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @06:03AM
Posting anon to maximize your modding abuse potential, I see.
Quick!! Look over there!! I think someone said something nice about the police!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @07:14AM
"Only now, at the end, do you realize the true power of the dark side! Yes, there are only two of us, a master and an apprentice, and right now I am in a tight spot since I have no apprentice and I really need you to come over to the dark side, and replace your father, who was a member of the greatest generation and so I can't trust him when it comes to OPSECS against the Citizens of the Galactic Federation. In fact, I really think he might be about to spill the beans on the whole operation! So now, you realize that you must sign this NDA, you must never tell anyone about the cookies, or the genital mutilation, especially the genital mutilation, it cuts down on recruitment. Together, we shall rule the Hugo Awards, and Micro$oft, and lots of other really evil stuff to rule! So come, now, Max! Come to the Dark Side!
(Oh, no, you are wondering how I knew your real name is "Max". Major faux pax on my part. You know, don't you, that I am an actual Sith Lord? Some times people get the spelling wrong, neither here nor there, but that means I have access to intelligence that most do not. My spies are everywhere, and I can trust, well, some of them. Some of the time. But that again is not important now! Come to the Dark Side, Max!!! I shall call you, "Darth Cheney"! Not like it hasn't been done before, and with the Kardashians, I say, if a butt pic worked once, it will work again!
So now together, with two of us countering the unfair mods of outrageous misfortune, we will rule this Soylent News together, as in both of us, but of course with you in the subordinate position, And I do not mean anything gay by that, of course, unless you want it to. Did you see me playing with my dolls again? The ones in the nice blue uniforms? I hear that in some places, if you donate a lot to the police, they let you volunteer just as if you were a real police officer! That gets my Darkside(tm) panties all in a bunch, I'll tell you. So, Max, come to the Dark Side, and we can play cop! We can chase traitors and pederasts, but not in that order. I will let you use my "electrostatic discharge", if you promise to be careful! Please, Max? Max?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @07:44AM
I'm pretty sure you can post in articles where you've modded people using your account and the mods won't be undone, so no.
Nice baseless speculation. You don't even know if I have an account.
Quick!! Look over there!! I think someone said something nice about the police!!!
Lots of people on this website disagree with authoritarian positions. Deal with it. You could always create some website targeting a different group of people if you don't like it.
And no one cares if you say something nice about the police if they actually did something good, but I suspect you're just a police apologist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @11:26AM
Yes, I know. That's why I said "maximize". You can not only mod down people you disagree with on the page, but within the same thread this way. MAXIMIZE does not equal CAN'T.
Yes, and they disagree very strongly with their mod points (we'll have to wait and see if "shitlord" makes it up to +5, starting from 0). But the funny thing is that they love to mod up their favorite points and mod down anything they disagree with, which gives them a little bit of authoritarian power.
That's right. Your way or the highway. Dissenting opinions are NOT welcome. Wait, what was your point again? I think we're in agreement.
EXACTLY. Mooooooooooo. Quick, get out those mod points before they expire! Maybe you're not as dense as your posts lead you to believe. Besides, I thought "shill" was your people's kind of favorite word for anyone who takes an opposing opinion. Is it out of style now?
You know, the admitting the problem is the first step to recovery.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @08:23PM
Yes, and they disagree very strongly with their mod points (we'll have to wait and see if "shitlord" makes it up to +5, starting from 0). But the funny thing is that they love to mod up their favorite points and mod down anything they disagree with, which gives them a little bit of authoritarian power.
Modding is subjective. It will inevitably reflect the viewpoints of the userbase. "Insightful"? Subjective. "Flamebait"? Subjective. And so on.
The result is that people who disagree with what most people here believe in obnoxious ways will be more heavily scrutinized. Not a surprise, since you're going against most of the userbase.
That's right. Your way or the highway. Dissenting opinions are NOT welcome.
What? No one said you can't post. Posts don't even get deleted here, so I don't see why you're whining. This isn't the first time you've whined about "sacred cows." It's about as valid as calling you a hipster for disagreeing with the majority; that is, it isn't.
EXACTLY. Mooooooooooo. Quick, get out those mod points before they expire! Maybe you're not as dense as your posts lead you to believe.
Someone could sum up your posts in a similar way, as I did before. "Waaaaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaah! Lots of people on this site disagree with my opinions! Waaaaaaaaaah! I'm being oppressed!"
And my posts never lead me to believe I'm dense.
Besides, I thought "shill" was your people's kind of favorite word for anyone who takes an opposing opinion. Is it out of style now?
If you could think logically for a moment, you'd know that different people are different.
You know, the admitting the problem is the first step to recovery.
I don't think there's a problem. This site has a specific audience which disagrees with authoritarian positions. Other sites are different. Go to the Daily Mail or something if you want to party with fellow authoritarians. Or post here and deal with the inevitable criticism that you'll get.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2015, @11:03PM
It's problematic that you use the word Problematic in such a problematic way. It's practically a microaggression which in itself is such a microaggressive word to use to describe microaggressions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2015, @03:50AM
You really think people shouldn't be allowed to use a different name in different contexts, Mr Runaway1956? Wouldn't it just be easier to respect their right to call themselves whatever they like?