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The "real" challenge technology presents isn't that it replaces workers, but rather displaces them.
The robots perform tasks that humans previously performed. The fear is that they are replacing human jobs, eliminating work in distribution centers and elsewhere in the economy. It is not hard to imagine that technology might be a major factor causing persistent unemployment today and threatening “more to come.”
Surprisingly, the managers of distribution centers and supply chains see things rather differently: in surveys they report that they can’t hire enough workers, at least not enough workers who have the necessary skills to deal with new technology. “Supply chain” is the term for the systems used to move products from suppliers to customers. Warehouse robots are not the first technology taking over some of the tasks of supply chain workers, nor are they even seen as the most important technology affecting the industry today.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/04/scarce-skills-not-scarce-jobs/390789/
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday April 29 2015, @08:56PM
it was a 'no end' contract; one that I was led to believe would be extended until they 'made us perm'. my whole group was all contractors and after a year now, still NO ONE has been made perm even though those poor souls still left are hopeful that one day, they'll get the same company paid benefits that the rest of the young guys (who were offered f/t to start) have been getting.
so, no, it didn't end normally; it ended abruptly and without more than one day of warning (I was told on a thursday that friday is my last day; no chance to negotiate - just pack up and leave).
you'd think that I did something really bad and I wish I did since, then, it would have been just and deserved. instead, I wrote code (that ran just fine), I physically made trade-show demos (electronics, plexiglass, sensors, IoT kinds of things), and everyone seemed impressed and even blown away by what I was producing.
but my point was about thinking that I owed them some loyalty because I was treated well for an initial period of time. I could have left during my first few months there but I rejected all incoming recruiters and did my best to concentrate on making this a really long-term gig.
the point is that there IS NO JOB SECURITY; and job hopping or not, they'll still look for ways to screw you over first chance they can. if I had left in 3 months, I would be called a job-hopper but I'd be a hopper who has an income! now, I'm not a hopper but I'm also incomeless ;(
also realize this: recruiters and companies mostly insist on knowing your last salary. this is a known 'catch' for the unemployed who were forced to take any job they could get, even at way below market value. and if you have an income history of (say), $100k, $120k, $130k, $150k, $100k - then they'll do all they can to KEEP you at the lower number and if you don't give them your last salary number, they won't even work with you! so its all a game to reset your salary level to 'save the poor rich companies' a ton of money and put YOU back in the poorhouse after you just fought to get out from under that! (note, in the bay area, its damned hard to live and have any savings be put away at 100k, so don't act like $100k is all that much; its literally $50k below market value for a 30yr software/hardware engineer).
I probably wrote way more than I should have, but putting some numbers and personal experiences to this might help inform others what is really going on in our industry.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday April 29 2015, @11:04PM
So how long do you have to stay in order to avoid the job hopper label?
Or how about lying about your last salary? if it's less than a year back it ought to possible to do this even better.
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday April 29 2015, @11:48PM
I've been told that 2 yrs is a good staying time (bay area). problem has been (for me) that companies often change -drastically- over 2 yrs and the same group and/or job may not even be there in that time. reorgs, outsourcing, mergers, changes of direction, loss of funding, you name it. in the last 10 yrs, in every case that my job has ended, its been the company that did the ending and not me. I should not at all be called a job hopper, and yet at one of my last interviews (a month ago) I was called exactly that.
"oh, I see that you are a contractor. why are you applying for this f/t job?"
I'm not a contractor. I'm only a contractor because you (bleeping) companies all are afraid to hire an over-50 engineer and offer him f/t benefits. this has been going on since I was 40, its showing no signs of changing and if I want the job, I have to accept the contract style work and supply any/all benes myself.
guys: take my advice. by the time you hit 35 or 40, try to have an alternate plan since the software world will not want you, in a Very Short Time - shorter than you realize. I've trained and worked in the sw field all my life, but I'm concluding that the field just wants young impressionable and cheap employees and is not willing to pay for experience. as you get experience, you become less desirable.
believe me or not; this is happening to all off us. and the companies simply DONT CARE. they just don't care. they fully know they are destroying the middle class but they are fiddling while rome burns.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2015, @07:34PM
I got myself an MBA after a decade in software development. I could sense bad things coming. I was working 11-14 hours a day, 7 days a week (no kidding), and was treated like dirt. Now I do contract work and make about as much, while doing much less work. I now actually have time to study business, watch movies, read books, etc.
And I agree: After 35 or 40, you are finished as a software developer.
For the first 5 years it was great. Now I wish I hadn't gone into professional software development. Lots of experience, and nobody wants to pay for that experience. Take my advice: Learn business. Learn to piss on people and be able to sleep. Don't pity anyone. Use them and take more than they can possibly give. Remind them you're at war with the competitors, and they need to do more. Never say "you've done enough work, go take some rest"; if somebody wants to work, let them kill themselves for you. Never say thank you. If someone drops behind, grill them; make an example for others. Remind them regularly "the economy is bad".
Start your own company, then:
10: Hire young meat
20: Burn them out
30: GOTO 10
Sorry, but this is what I have seen.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 29 2015, @11:41PM
I'm not an experienced contractor, so take this advice with a grain of salt (I've only done two contract jobs):
On your resume, put "(contract)" next to all your jobs which are contracts. That way, when the job only lasts 6 months, it should be fairly obvious to your new prospective employer that it was a limited-term contract job. This can also work if you're in one of those contracts that you can opt out of early, and you have to bail in 3 months. Try to make it so it's a multiple of 3 months so it looks like that was the actual contract length. For your open-ended contract where they just drop you with no notice, do the same.
The point to this is: if you make it obvious that these jobs are contracts, it should help avoid the "job-hopper" label. No one can expect you to stick around for 5 years in a contract job; the whole point of a company hiring a contractor is that they don't intend to keep you permanently.
My second piece of advice is: you're in the Bay Area. You don't need to worry that much about being a "job hopper", because (from what I hear) no one stays anyplace there longer than 2 years.
Finally, in the future, if you're working a contract job with a defined term (usu. 6 months or 12 months), and the expiration is less than a month away, start scouting around for something new. Don't think this job will last, because there's a chance it won't. See if you find something more interesting and/or something higher paying. You might find something better, in which case you don't have to bother renewing your contract and can jump to the new job, and it won't look bad (remember, it's on your resume as "(contract)"). If you find something else but it isn't any better, and your timing is right, you can just hold onto it and get them to wait for an answer, and if your current job doesn't renew, you'll be able to take this one. Or, if it's similar, but you'd rather not change, go to your agent and have them get the papers done to renew your contract right now, or else you're going to take the other job.
But the bottom line is: with a contract job, never assume there's any permanence to it. Always be ready to change, and always be one step ahead of them. With a normal contract, you've got X months of stability (since that's in the contract), but that's it. Look on the bright side though: for permanent employees, they can be let go any time at all. It just isn't like that for normal contractors; the company has to pay out for that full term.
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday April 30 2015, @12:01AM
I appreciate what you wrote.
the job I was referring to was an open-ended contract that was supposed to 'go perm' after the first 6mos. I was there quite a bit beyond 6mos and all indications were that all of us, eventually, would be offered a f/t 'upgrade'. we just have to sit tight and wait for the reqs to open.
that was what we were told and we tried to believe it.
we were lied to and I was the first to find this out, the hard way. but I had no reason to believe - at the time up to that point - that they were not telling the truth and that they did intend to bring us all onboard when they could.
and it does not seem to matter that I (already do) put down 'contractor' as my job title; they still see me coming and going and they make a red flag out of a truly non-issue. maybe they just say its an issue since its never the 'right cultural fit' anymore (rolls eyes). they have to say something to brush you off. job-hopper is so much less personal, I guess, so if the candidate has any 'hopping' history at all - you can always use that convenient excuse for not hiring him.
the bay are companies used to be cool and they used to look for innovators. now, they are labor mills looking for bottom-priced bulk labor to do things 'very fast' and nothing else really matters. qa is skipped, docs are horrible, planning does not happen, testing is done by end users post-purchase and real innovation is gone from the bay area, overall. if you are a yes-man and can memorize compsci101, you can get hired. if you have experience and are 'different' from the cookie-cutter mold they all want now, you could go die in a corner; just not in their corner.
I laugh at the comedy series 'silicon valley' but not because its funny; but because the 'free spirits' it shows is NOT what silicon valley (today) wants. silicon valley wants robots that have human skin and will do what they are told and not really be an out-of-box thinker. independant thought gets you booted or not even considered.
(sorry for the longish rant but its a highly personal issue to me, being very invested in this area of the country).
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 30 2015, @12:34AM
I wonder if you'd do better moving to a different area of the country which isn't quite as cutthroat as the Bay Area; perhaps Portland, Seattle, SLC, DC, etc.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Thursday April 30 2015, @04:43AM
While it was a decade ago, what I 'saw' through dating a guy living in DC indicated it's no better there — just more straight-laced/uptight and kind of politician-style fake. It would also be a bad fit if TheGratefulNet has an aversion to freezing cold winters, high-humidity hot summers, smog or cigarette smoke.
I keep seeing people mention Texas as a good option for Californians in the tech industry looking for work, though, so that might be worth consideration. It's reportedly going through a huge development boom in addition to the substantial chunk of the tech industry that's been there for the past few decades.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 30 2015, @02:13PM
DC is supposedly a lot more hip than it was a decade ago. Also, many of the engineering jobs in the DC area are government-related, and require a security clearance, and generally require workers to be US Citizens. That excludes a lot of competition that you'll find in Silicon Valley. Yes, it's probably more straight-laced than, say, Berkeley, but it's not like engineers are running around in suits and ties. I have no idea what you mean by "politician-style fake"; yes, the politicians in the Capitol are fake, but we're talking about engineering jobs here, not political positions.
As for the weather, you've got to be kidding. Winters in DC are mild; look at a friggin' map. If you want freezing winters, you go to Boston. Summers are not hot either; again, look at a map. If you want high-humidity hot summers, go to Atlanta or farther south to Florida. Smog? California's cities top the charts for smog pollution; the east coast cities do not.
(Score: 1) by klondike0 on Thursday April 30 2015, @03:52AM
It sounds to me like you have passion for what you do -- focus on that instead of feelings of rejection / deception. Contracting can be great if you do it on your terms, I've always found that if a company flakes on the promised 'upgrade', it is time to get a wider perspective. Instead of having them try to bend you over further and widen something else.
Personally, I don't trust any company further than I can throw its imaginary ass but I love the challenge of figuring out new(ish) stuff. But also, since I am easily attached to projects and am easily frustrated by managers that can't handle any level of detail, I figure if they want to sally forth without me -- I am so much the better for it.
I hope you find the best of all possible worlds, even if it is in the bay area
(Score: 2) by tathra on Thursday April 30 2015, @12:55AM
you must be new to the US workforce. the whole point of hiring temp workers or similar is to dump them at ~6 months or so, so that the company doesn't have to waste money providing the things typically required for full-time/permanent employees, like healthcare and pensions. this has been the standard for a long time.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:38AM
I don't know how far into the company this extends, but the company in SF my brother's worked at for the past several years is hiring [tinyco.com] and seems to be handling things differently based on what he has said. (I'm worried that if I give examples, he'd be identified and somehow get into hot water; I don't know the rules for things like that.) It might be worth looking into if any of them look like a good match for you.
Interestingly, I noticed that the staff photo only seems at first glance like it's all young people; it looks like the age distribution was carefully arranged to give that impression...not sure whether that's a good sign or a bad one.
Hopefully you'll be able to find a new job *somewhere* quickly enough to avoid the usual 'jobless' stigma and comfortably continue paying the bills, in any event.