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posted by CoolHand on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:02AM   Printer-friendly
from the someone-make-up-my-mind dept.
calmond writes:

Related to the earlier discussion about where ISIS gets its weapons, I wanted to share this great in-depth article from The Atlantic about the motivations of ISIS. Then In order to provide a more nuanced view of ISIS, here is criticism of that Atlantic article from thinkprogress.org.

From the Atlantic:

The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

The thinkprogress.org criticism by one of the primary sources cited in the Atlantic article:

One of the oft-mentioned criticisms of The Atlantic piece is that it echoed the inaccurate belief that since ISIS’s theology draws upon Islamic texts to justify its horrendous practices, it is an inevitable product of Islam. Haykel didn’t say whether or not he thought Wood’s article says as much, but when ThinkProgress asked him directly whether Islamic texts and theology necessitate the creation of groups like ISIS, he was unequivocal.

“No,” he said. “I think that ISIS is a product of very contingent, contextual, historical factors. There is nothing predetermined in Islam that would lead to ISIS.”

He was similarly unambiguous when responding to the related critique that Muslims who disavow ISIS are somehow deluded or not “real” Muslims.

“I consider people … who have criticized ISIS to be fully within the Islamic tradition, and in no way ‘less Muslim’ than ISIS,” he said. “I mean, that’s absurd.”

 
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  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:29PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:29PM (#177171) Journal

    Someone dropped this link on me a few days ago. Why don't you check it out? http://chersonandmolschky.com/2013/12/26/myth-the-small-fringe/ [chersonandmolschky.com] This sister article has more on the same subject. http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/04/07/support-sharia-law-world/ [chersonandmolschky.com]

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  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday May 01 2015, @07:45AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Friday May 01 2015, @07:45AM (#177391) Journal

    Someone dropped this link on me a few days ago. Why don't you check it out?

    Yes, indeed, why do not I check it out? Could it be, perhaps, that your references in the past were, um, somewhat lacking in credibility? Maybe because these links are poison anti-semitism (oh, did you not know that "Semite" refers to Arabs as much a Jews?) aimed at creating fear and loathing? If you want your fellow Soylentils to follow your links, you need to earn our trust, only provide links that are well sourced, verifiable, fact-checked, and do not come from jmorris. Otherwise, if you ask, "why don't you check it out?", we will all answer, "because you suggested it."

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 01 2015, @03:26PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2015, @03:26PM (#177480) Journal

      "Muslim" and "semite" are not synonymous.

      How would you like to read a free Kindle book? Head over to Amazon, and look for 'The Caliphate' by Tom Kratman. It is a work of fiction, but it's not just a story.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @05:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @05:41PM (#177533)

        Tarchus asks for sources that are "well sourced, verifiable, fact-checked" and you respond with "a work of fiction."

        I am absolutely not surprised. But it is always disappointing when people live down to a stereotype.

      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday May 02 2015, @07:21AM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday May 02 2015, @07:21AM (#177801) Journal

        "Muslim" and "semite" are not synonymous.

        Yes! And my god why would anyone think that is a question? Islam, like Christianity and Buddhism, is a global religion. Heck, even white people or people with hairy feet can be Muslim. Not that hard to understand. But Semite, well, yes this has something to do with it, since the language of the Koran is Arabic. And the Jews are also of the same race. This always confuses me when people say that Arabs are anti-semites, since Arabs are semites. And why are not Jews anti-semetic for hating Palestineans? OK, the whole thing is too confusing, but you totally missed the point. If you want to hate Jews, you really got to hate Arabs, but if you just want to hate Jews and Arabs, you don't have to hate all Muslims, especially Cat Stevens. Are we clear now, you fricking wanna be neo-nazi?

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 02 2015, @01:43PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 02 2015, @01:43PM (#177863) Journal

          It seemed to me that you were trying to imply that hating Islam is anti-semitic because most Muslims are Arabs, or that most Arabs are Muslims. I wasn't sure which point you were trying to make.

          I'll just point out that I never said anything about Arabs, Persians, Africans, Semites, or any other racial or ethnic group.

          My problem is with Islam. Islam promises to rule the world according to Islamic law. Islam is both more than, and less than, a religion. It is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT as much as it is a religion. Rule the world - that's political. Theistic government is a political government. Islam is anathema to democracy, and in direct opposition to any definition of freedom that I have ever heard. Submit. Submission to Islam, submission to Allah, call it what ever - some imam wants to run my life for me.

          I don't allow Christian preachers to run my life, damned if any imam is going to do it.

          But, yes, I am perfectly aware that Jews and Arabs are both Semitic.

          And, one more thing. If you try to make sense of the "logic" of either love or hate, you'll soon have bats in the belfry - IF you don't already. There is no logic involved. No rhyme, nor reason. Why does your mother love you? Why does a brother hate a brother? Why does your mate hate/love you? No logic - don't expect anything like logic.