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posted by CoolHand on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:02AM   Printer-friendly
from the someone-make-up-my-mind dept.
calmond writes:

Related to the earlier discussion about where ISIS gets its weapons, I wanted to share this great in-depth article from The Atlantic about the motivations of ISIS. Then In order to provide a more nuanced view of ISIS, here is criticism of that Atlantic article from thinkprogress.org.

From the Atlantic:

The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

The thinkprogress.org criticism by one of the primary sources cited in the Atlantic article:

One of the oft-mentioned criticisms of The Atlantic piece is that it echoed the inaccurate belief that since ISIS’s theology draws upon Islamic texts to justify its horrendous practices, it is an inevitable product of Islam. Haykel didn’t say whether or not he thought Wood’s article says as much, but when ThinkProgress asked him directly whether Islamic texts and theology necessitate the creation of groups like ISIS, he was unequivocal.

“No,” he said. “I think that ISIS is a product of very contingent, contextual, historical factors. There is nothing predetermined in Islam that would lead to ISIS.”

He was similarly unambiguous when responding to the related critique that Muslims who disavow ISIS are somehow deluded or not “real” Muslims.

“I consider people … who have criticized ISIS to be fully within the Islamic tradition, and in no way ‘less Muslim’ than ISIS,” he said. “I mean, that’s absurd.”

 
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  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:36PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:36PM (#177177) Journal

    Uhhhh - "something like ISIS" did indeed happen. It was known for a long time as the "Ottoman Empire".

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  • (Score: 2) by threedigits on Friday May 08 2015, @08:12AM

    by threedigits (607) on Friday May 08 2015, @08:12AM (#180236)

    Are you serious? How can you compare a whole empire with a disaggregate gang of extremists? Are you suggesting that ISIS is in the same league as a Nation-State in organization, military power, or anything else?

    If anything, you can compare them with Barbary Pirates. And from that comparison you get that ISIS is in fact much less organized. Of course, Barbary pirates were not different from their Christian equivalents of the time.

    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 08 2015, @03:21PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 08 2015, @03:21PM (#180326) Journal

      You seem to be suggesting that the Ottoman sprang forth, a full fledged empire, with not starting point either in time or space. Kinda like an omniscient god or something?

      Daesh, or Isis, has the brutality, and the dedication to BECOME an empire. It remains to be seen whether there are enough people with the will to prevent that.

      So far, the US and Europe aren't doing diddly to prevent it. They continue to import "refugees", they continue to cater to those "refugees" once they arrive. Soon enough, Europe will BE Muslim. We already see how many "Europeans" are returning to the Levant to fight for Daesh. Far to many.

      "Something like Isis" would be "Something like the Ottoman in it's earliest days". Think about it.

      What have YOU done to prevent the next Islamic empire spanning half of Asia, all of Europe, most of Africa, and infiltrating beyond?

      Write your representatives to stop immigration.

      • (Score: 2) by threedigits on Wednesday May 20 2015, @12:44PM

        by threedigits (607) on Wednesday May 20 2015, @12:44PM (#185425)

        Trying to conflate Islam and terrorism is xenophobic and borderline Nazi. Trying to characterize ISIS as a new rising of the Ottoman Empire is just stupid and ignorant of what ISIS *is*, and what the Ottoman Empire was and how it came to be. Hint: it was not a group of terrorist catering to refugees.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 20 2015, @04:47PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 20 2015, @04:47PM (#185580) Journal

          Xenophobic - maybe. Nazi? Huh, wut? Maybe that word doesn't mean what you think it means?

          Tell you what - since I'm the one who is so ignorant, why don't you tell me what Daesh really is? Yes, I've stopped using the term as the swine demand it be used. I've chosen to use the insulting form of their name. Daesh - apparently it is insulting in a few thousand ways, depending on context.