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posted by CoolHand on Thursday April 30 2015, @05:02AM   Printer-friendly
from the someone-make-up-my-mind dept.
calmond writes:

Related to the earlier discussion about where ISIS gets its weapons, I wanted to share this great in-depth article from The Atlantic about the motivations of ISIS. Then In order to provide a more nuanced view of ISIS, here is criticism of that Atlantic article from thinkprogress.org.

From the Atlantic:

The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

The thinkprogress.org criticism by one of the primary sources cited in the Atlantic article:

One of the oft-mentioned criticisms of The Atlantic piece is that it echoed the inaccurate belief that since ISIS’s theology draws upon Islamic texts to justify its horrendous practices, it is an inevitable product of Islam. Haykel didn’t say whether or not he thought Wood’s article says as much, but when ThinkProgress asked him directly whether Islamic texts and theology necessitate the creation of groups like ISIS, he was unequivocal.

“No,” he said. “I think that ISIS is a product of very contingent, contextual, historical factors. There is nothing predetermined in Islam that would lead to ISIS.”

He was similarly unambiguous when responding to the related critique that Muslims who disavow ISIS are somehow deluded or not “real” Muslims.

“I consider people … who have criticized ISIS to be fully within the Islamic tradition, and in no way ‘less Muslim’ than ISIS,” he said. “I mean, that’s absurd.”

 
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2015, @09:51PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2015, @09:51PM (#177277)

    That's all selection bias.

    How many people have had their lives saved by religion? For example, how many catholic hospitals are there? In the US alone at least 1 in 9 acute care hospital beds is in a catholic hospital. If you attribute deaths to the religion and not individuals claiming the religion for their own purposes, then you have to do the same for lives saved.

  • (Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Thursday April 30 2015, @10:22PM

    by Mr Big in the Pants (4956) on Thursday April 30 2015, @10:22PM (#177286)

    Another hypocrite?

    How many would have be "saved" by an evidence based approach that did not rely on accepting complete bollocks?

    And speaking of selection bias, how about your wonderful self selection bias?

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @03:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @03:48AM (#177361)

      > How many would have be "saved" by an evidence based approach that did not rely on accepting complete bollocks?

      What are you going on about? Catholic hospitals are some of the best hospitals out there. They are one of the few remaining non-profit groups of hospitals.
      Are you so blinded by your anti-theism that you think they don't apply evidence-based medicine?

      > And speaking of selection bias, how about your wonderful self selection bias?

      Sorry I have no fucking clue what you mean by that. How about having a conversation with the people who are actually here instead of just the voices inside your head? hhhm?

      • (Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday May 01 2015, @08:45PM

        by Mr Big in the Pants (4956) on Friday May 01 2015, @08:45PM (#177607)

        As per usual there is no arguing with "faith".

        IOW The believe in something without evidence and in practice with evidence to the contrary.

        But you'll show me when you go to "heaven" and I end up in "hell" right?

        This conversation is done...

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @10:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @10:03PM (#177636)

          > As per usual there is no arguing with "faith".

          Hey dumbfuck, I am an atheist born and will always be.

          What I am not is blinded by my own ignorance of the world I live in.

          The only faith here is your own now disproven belief in your own infalliability. The irony is rich.

          • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @10:52PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @10:52PM (#177660)

            Wow. Mr crazy pants goes ad hominem in multiple posts, saying that I am wrong because I am religious and offers no actual support for his own position, I call him out for it and I get the flamebait mod?

            10:1 odds the modder is mr crazy pants himself, having utterly lost the debate he resorts to the ego-soothing illegitimate mod smack-down.

            I am always disappointed when people live down to the worst stereotypes. You disgrace real atheists with that shit.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @05:12AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @05:12AM (#177369)

    How many people have had their lives saved by religion?

    Yes, but their souls were lost. Your life may be saved in a Catholic hospitial, but since they are not Christian, you will burn in eternal hellfire! Both you and your inflamed appendix! Unbeliever! Why did not not cure this through prayer?

    (Take away, for the slower Soylentils, of which there seem to be more lately, with severely impaired sarcasm detectors: medicine saves lives. Nice of religion to fund it, but it's kind of a crapshoot whether it does or not. )

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @03:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2015, @03:02PM (#177473)

      > Nice of religion to fund it, but it's kind of a crapshoot whether it does or not.

      No religion of any significant size lasts unless it provides significant social benefit. Even those little cults provide value to their members. They burn out becuase the downsides exceed the upsides. But anything that lasts long-term is a net positive otherwise it falls apart or evolves into something that is a net good. It isn't like being religous turns people into mindless destructive zombies. I get the feeling a lot of the zero-EQ people on this site have this simple-minded and utterly uneducated view of how religion works. As someone who was born an atheist and will always be an atheist I feel you idiots are fucking it up for me. If you can't understand what you criticize you have no business opening your trap.