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The Guardian is reporting that...
Two gunmen have been killed and a security guard injured during what appeared to be an attack on a contest for cartoon depictions of the prophet Muhammad in a Dallas suburb.
The gunmen drove up to the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland shortly before 7pm on Sunday where the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI) were hosting the exhibition and contest.
According to city authorities an unarmed guard at the event was shot at before the men were engaged and killed by police.
Further...
A bomb squad was called in after reports of a possible incendiary device at the scene of the incident. Police said a "bomb container trailer" had also been deployed in which to place any suspect device.
A police spokesman said two males had been killed and their bodies were still lying outside their car hours later.
"Because of the situation of what was going on today and the history of what we've been told has happened at other events like this, we are considering their car (is) possibly containing a bomb," Officer Joe Harn, a spokesman for the Garland Police Department, said.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @07:24PM
>The KKK's speech is just nonsense, like the WBC's protests are.
And so is drawing insulting pictures of mo.
> We know there are some people who are highly oversensitive to racial insults and some people who will issue death threats or take action, so I feel there is good work to be done here.
FTFY.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday May 04 2015, @07:39PM
And so is drawing insulting pictures of mo.
No, it isn't. Your analogies are awful. Drawing pictures of Muhammed can be a way of celebrating freedom of expression, showing opposition to censorship, and showing that you will not back down in the face of threats that some people issue. The fairy tales (whether they are Christian, Islam, or some other brand of fairy tale) deserve to be insulted, as they are pure nonsense. Racism itself is nonsense, so the situation is also different in that sense. It makes sense to criticize religion and theism and those who take it too seriously, but saying that's on equal rational ground with the KKK's nonsense is pure garbage.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @07:50PM
> Drawing making racial insults can be a way of celebrating freedom of expression, showing opposition to censorship, and showing that you will not back down in the face of threats that some people issue
FTFY
What you are having a hard time grasping is that everyone who is a dick thinks they have good, principled reasons to be a dick. You are no different.
The one common theme is being a dick. No matter how much you want to distance your principles from those of all the other dicks, you are all still being dicks because you think something else justifies it.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday May 04 2015, @08:18PM
FTFY
You're not fixing anything; you're just using the same debunked KKK analogy over and over again.
What you are having a hard time grasping is that everyone who is a dick thinks they have good, principled reasons to be a dick.
What about people who realize the error of their ways? Therefore, it's not everyone and your statement is incorrect. Furthermore, it is possible to think you are good and principled and be right about it, especially since "good", "principled", and what constitutes being a"dick" are completely subjective, contrary to you seemingly pretending it's an objective matter.
Also, I don't think this is an example of being a dick for reasons I've stated.
No matter how much you want to distance your principles from those of all the other dicks
And no matter how much you try to reuse the same illogical KKK analogy, it will be debunked and thrown aside like the trash it is. That tends to happen when you fail to use logic to justify your point and instead rely on extremely superficial similarities to shoe-horn an analogy in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @08:30PM
> You're not fixing anything; you're just using the same KKK analogy over and over again.
Yes, because the point is that your argument is interchangeable with the KKK's argument.
> Furthermore, it is possible to think you are good and principled and be right about it
No it is not. Being a dick nullifies being good.
> Also, I don't think this is an example of being a dick for reasons I've stated.
Yes, that is what it comes down to. You think your principles are more important than being kind and treating other people with dignity and consideration. That is practically the definition of dickhood. It is not subjective.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday May 04 2015, @08:45PM
Yes, because the point is that your argument is interchangeable with the KKK's argument.
No, it isn't, for the reasons I've already explained. You could do the same thing to *any* argument about *any* form of expression. Just shoe-horn in the KKK.
No it is not. Being a dick nullifies being good.
Who said anything about being a dick? You don't believe it's possible to be good and principled? And remember: What is good, principled, or being a dick is subjective.
You think your principles are more important than being kind and treating other people with dignity and consideration.
I do not think irrational fairy tales that people actually believe should be given dignity or consideration. Maybe that seems 'unkind' to you, but I feel it is important for people to be rational, and believing in magical sky daddies without evidence is not rational. Islam is but one of many religions that needs to be criticized out of existence.
It is not subjective.
Please provide scientific evidence for the existence of the magical opinion fairy who has decided that your opinion about a subjective matter is objectively correct. I could pick out subjective and arbitrary terms from just about any definition you can give.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @08:59PM
> You could do the same thing to *any* argument about *any* form of expression. Just shoe-horn in the KKK.
We are not talking about *any* argument.
We are talking about the KKK doing the same thing you want to do.
> You don't believe it's possible to be good and principled?
Please do not play stupid. You keep trying to hide in generalizations rather than deal with the two specific examples that have been the central topic of this thread.
> I do not think irrational fairy tales that people actually believe should be given dignity or consideration.
Those irrational fairy tales are not hurting you. Leave those people to believe what they want.
You want to stand up for freedom of expression? How about taking on people stronger than you who are criminals. [theguardian.com] Go ahead, dig up their names and start publishing them.
> Please provide scientific evidence
"Scientific evidence" is not necessary for word definitions. Choosing to deliberately insult regular people who have not done anything to you is being a dick. If you think otherwise then you are the one living in a fantasy world.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday May 04 2015, @09:13PM
We are talking about the KKK doing the same thing you want to do.
With the superficial similarity being that they intend to offend. When does the KKK stand up for any freedom of expression but their own? When do they stand against censorship and threats demanding censorship when it is speech they don't agree with? The KKK doesn't strike me as an organization that wants to respect people's liberrties.
Please do not play stupid. You keep trying to hide in generalizations rather than deal with the two specific examples that have been the central topic of this thread.
Limiting it to two specific examples (that I feel have been debunked) is silly when I am trying to demonstrate that your silly logic can be applied to anything.
Those irrational fairy tales are not hurting you. Leave those people to believe what they want.
Irrational beliefs can affect your tendency to believe other irrational things, and can even cause you to vote for people who believe the same irrational things you do. So yes, they *can* affect others. Maybe someone who believes in magical sky daddies isn't necessarily all-around irrational, but their irrational beliefs can beget other irrational beliefs and affect their decision-making in ways that aren't necessarily obvious, especially when the matter is directly related to their most sacred irrational beliefs.
And in this case, the irrational beliefs are causing certain people to threaten others and be offended when someone draws a picture. You think they amount to nothing, but this doesn't seem to be the case. The best way to stamp these things out is with education and criticism.
You want to stand up for freedom of expression? How about taking on people stronger than you who are criminals. Go ahead, dig up their names and start publishing them.
You should stand up to everyone who opposes freedom of speech.
"Scientific evidence" is not necessary for word definitions.
Then I hope you realize that your word definitions aren't nearly as objective as you think they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @09:22PM
> With the superficial similarity being that they intend to offend. When does the KKK stand up for any freedom of expression but their own?
If you listen to them they will tell you they are standing up for the rights of all white people.
They'll tell you that is even more important than freedom of speech.
This is all about perspective, you think you are better than them and they think the same about you.
The fact is you are both exactly the same self-centered myopic dicks.
> and can even cause you to vote for people who believe the same irrational things you do.
Wow. Just wow. Because someone might vote in ways you don't like that means you should be shitty to them.
Wow.
> And in this case, the irrational beliefs are causing certain people to threaten others and be offended when someone draws a picture.
So, 2 unstable people out of 3,000,000+ react poorly and that justifies you being shitty to the remaining 2,999,998 people.
I'm pretty sure that is 100x more irrational than believing in fairy tales.
> You should stand up to everyone who opposes freedom of speech.
Then start with the strong, worry about the weak later.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday May 05 2015, @07:53AM
If you listen to them they will tell you they are standing up for the rights of all white people.
Exactly. They don't care about freedom in general; they care about their own freedom.
You're really stretching this KKK analogy.
The fact is you are both exactly the same self-centered myopic dicks.
Anyone who sticks up for freedom of expression is clearly just like the KKK. I heard Hitler liked puppies, too!
Wow. Just wow. Because someone might vote in ways you don't like that means you should be shitty to them.
Wow.
Must I tell you what you yourself said? Here: "Those irrational fairy tales are not hurting you. Leave those people to believe what they want."
That is patently false. Irrational beliefs can lead to irrational actions, sometimes in very subtle ways. So in general, I support advocating that people discard these beliefs. I may not participate in draw Muhammed day and the like, but some people find that important.
So, 2 unstable people out of 3,000,000+ react poorly and that justifies you being shitty to the remaining 2,999,998 people.
It's more than 2 people. And again, I don't consider drawing a picture of some guy as "being shitty"; that some people do is truly pathetic. And can you present your scientific evidence that all 2,999,998 people find these drawings offensive? I'm pretty sure there are many muslims who simply do not care.
Then start with the strong, worry about the weak later.
False dichotomy. Both can be tackled.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @10:02PM
Irrational beliefs can affect your tendency to believe other irrational things, and can even cause you to vote for people who believe the same irrational things you do.
You know what is really irrational?
Thinking that if you insult people that will cause them to start agreeing with you on anything. Never once in the history of the world has that tactic ever worked.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday May 05 2015, @07:47AM
Presenting a set of beliefs as being nonsensical can make some people question their own beliefs. It's quite an extraordinary claim to say that no one has ever reevaluated their own belief system due to someone mocking it, being that billions of people exist and many more people have existed; only a single person would have had to do such a thing to prove you wrong.
Furthermore, if drawing a picture of someone is considered insulting, then that's rather pathetic.