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Signed into law yesterday by Governor Jerry Brown, California Civil Code Section 1670.8 now provides that:
A contract or proposed contract for the sale or lease of consumer goods or services may not include a provision waiving the consumer's right to make any statement regarding the seller or lessor or its employees or agents, or concerning the goods or services.
This statute comes with a fine of up to $2,500 for the first violation, up to $5,000 for the second and subsequent violations, as well as up to $10,000 for a willful, intentional, or reckless violation.
Software product EULAs are sometimes used to forbid negative reviews, and while this is not mentioned specifically in the text of the law, it is a fairly reasonable argument to think that this provision will apply there as well as in places like Yelp.com.
This law only applies in California, not in other states, or in other nations. Even so, it is a step in the right direction.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday May 11 2015, @01:14PM
When I see clauses like this in a contract, I know for sure the company is fully planning to screw me over. Another good indication of that is a binding arbitration clause where the company has chosen the arbitrator already.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ikanreed on Monday May 11 2015, @01:32PM
I'm so glad you know that every company you could possibly deal with is planning to screw you over. That doesn't help you find products and services you need.
(Also, one more you missed in the trifecta of legal bullshittery is reserving the right to change the contract)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 11 2015, @01:44PM
You checked every single company he could possibly deal with?
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Monday May 11 2015, @01:46PM
To be honest every single company does screw you over but usually it's built in to the price and there's no need to go above and beyond that.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday May 11 2015, @02:07PM
Look, if you sign a contract with a corporation in the US, you've been screwed. That's just how one sided contracts work.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday May 11 2015, @11:22PM
Well if it's a whore-bouse, win-win!
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday May 12 2015, @04:48AM
I have seen way too much of this "businesstalk". Its my biggest quencher of any enthusiasm to do business. Its the equivalent of looking like you are casing the place for an after-hours shopping spree during an interview.
I research places like Yelp.com and RipoffReport.com and ask around the neighborhood for references. Most printed ads just go in the trash can ( exception being trade magazines). Telephone solicitions go unanswered. Television simply no longer received. Door to door is always met with angry response, as I am usually not home unless I am sleeping, having a meal, using the toilet, or personal affairs and none of those is a good time for an interruption. God knows how much I would like to train a German Shep to pee on their shoes upon signal.
A reputation is the only thing a business has going for it. I end up doing business most of the time through word of mouth from friends and neighbors. If the first I see of that business is all sorts of "businesstalk", far more harm was done to their reputation just by my seeing it. Personally, I would think I would make about the same impression if I asked to be held harmless from watching porn on company time, and put that in my resume.
How businessmen can produce such a document and present it to a customer is beyond me. Often the very first words a prospective customer hears is all sorts of gobble-de-gook about "with qualifying service", "up to", "when purchased with something else", "just pay separate shipping and handling", and is left how many hundreds of dollars of trumped-up charges the company will levy on their credit card.
When I get one of those documents, I had just as soon cover it in feces and return it.
Personally, I am very pleased that the State of California has seen fit to pass this legislation. Its very one-sided to allow businesses the services of all these credit reporting agencies ( TRW, Equifax, TransUnion, Experian, and countless insurance/medical databases ) yet deny the consumers to keep track of honest businesses.
It costs money to do the job right, and without watchdogs, businesses will take the money and run, thinking a good advertising campaign will get them a steady stream of suckers.
Everyone is accountable for what they do. No exceptions.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday May 11 2015, @01:38PM
Good, good, California passes a good law for a change -- Now if only we could stem the tides of illegals leeching our healthcare resources and ruining our public education all so that the Democrats can have a few more votes.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by rts008 on Monday May 11 2015, @01:56PM
You make an excellelant point.
I guess I am just more cynical, because I use the 'shotgun' approach, and initially assume that all of them are out to screw me over. After more than 5 decades, experience has hammered into my skull that this is the only rational approach. The very few times that I have experienced exceptions to this, those companies/businesses have gained a loyal customer.
Pro-tip for companies/businesses wanting 'brand loyalty':
Show some honest customer loyalty, and it brand loyalty will be rock-solid without having to spend gazillions on marketing and advertising...your customers will gleefully advertise and market for you.
You{business) killed brand loyalty with that whole 'you are a consumer, not a customer' campaign.
Customers have brand loyalty, consumers look for the best bargain. Look at the root/base of those two words...it is very telling.
The only time I even came close to 'consuming' music was back in the 1970's, when I 'tasted the music' on an acid-trip. It was two hits of 4-way windowpane, and Santana 'tasted' so yummy that weekend! But, when the trip ended, I still had the LP, it was not consmed...I did not have to fish it out of the toilet and clean the shit off after it had passed through my digestive system.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 11 2015, @02:15PM
Customers have brand loyalty, consumers look for the best bargain.
Those are two strategic choices for companies in almost any retail segment. For example, Bloomingdale's goes after the first one, Wal-Mart the second.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by infodragon on Monday May 11 2015, @05:01PM
Bloomingdales is only different from Wal-Mart in one way. Bloomingdales wants you to consume their brand, Wal-Mart wants you to consume as much as possible in their store. Both see you as a consumer, one sees you as consuming a brand the other sees you as consuming whatever is the cheapest. Both care about only one thing, the bottom line!
Don't settle for shampoo, demand real poo!
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday May 11 2015, @02:20PM
My point is that these contract clauses make it clear that they screw people over enough to be planning ahead for the likely litigious aftermath. That suggests that they'll do more than overcharge or provide shoddy service (that is just to be expected).
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday May 11 2015, @03:55PM
The problem is almost every company out there will happily screw you over if they can.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 11 2015, @09:56PM
Companies are composed of people. There are many people that will happily 'screw you over'. There are also many honest people. Likewise honest companies exist as well. You have mechanics that are crooks and you have a few good mechanics as well. Some mechanics don't do work on your car that they know are unnecessary but they do charge you more for the work they do. Likewise there are wealthy and expensive mechanics that are make a lot of money simply because they're just very good at what they do and there are people willing to pay a high premium to ensure the car is fixed right the first time without having to come back because their time is very valuable to them. I see little wrong with that. It's free market capitalism.
Some of the examples of relatively good big companies (though some of that maybe changing) include
Triple A (member owned)
Costco (If I understand correctly they promise their customers only a 13 profit margin)
Costco employees tend to be well paid (though Costco may try to get away with contracting with companies that benefit Costco but have lower paid employees (ie: CDS)).
Google
UPS (freight)
and the idea that everyone with a contract is out to scam you is a bit overrated (though I would refuse to sign a gym contract after being screwed by one, hahaha, but that's a long story).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 11 2015, @10:09PM
[Citation Needed]