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After my last SN post the topic of moderation was brought up. Since its been quite awhile since we last openly discussed the state of moderation, I want to give the community a venue to discuss their feelings on it, and if the system needs further refinement. As a reminder, here's a review for how the system is currently setup:
- 5 mod points are handed out to at 00:10 UTC to users with positive karma
- ACs start at +0, users with karma less than 40 post at +1, users above that can post at +2
- You need 10 karma to mark some spam or troll
- Under normal circumstances, the staff do *not* have unlimited mod points, but can (and have) banned abusers of the moderation system
Please also review our SoylentNews Moderation Guidelines.
As always, we are willing to make changes to the system, but please post examples *with* links to any cases of suspected mod abuse. It's a lot easier to justify changing the system when evidence is in black and white. I also recommend that users make serious proposals on changes we can make. I'm not going to color the discussion with my own opinions, but as always, I will respond inline with comments when this goes live, and post a follow up article a few days after this one
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(Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Wednesday May 20 2015, @01:06PM
My own view is that the moderation system is working OK as it is. Unless someone comes up with a really smart idea in the comments here, then I would be content to leave the mod system alone.
There is a problem with ACs occasionally running amok but nothing I have seen suggested will correct that problem.
We are in danger of trying to tweak the system one way and then another depending on changing personal whims and, unless a clear benefit can be seen, I believe that we should leave the current system 'as is' for the time being.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Wednesday May 20 2015, @02:39PM
There is a problem with ACs occasionally running amok but nothing I have seen suggested will correct that problem.
I actually did [soylentnews.org] suggest something that could help in my earlier comment about moderation: give people extra mod points that can only be used to moderate 0/-1 posts. Basically extra "free" points that are only there to upvote the good ACs (or registered users that got modbombed) and bury the bad ones. Still relies on people being willing to read at 0, but I think it would work better than automated measures.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday May 20 2015, @02:46PM
(Score: 2) by Marand on Wednesday May 20 2015, @02:55PM
None taken, I just assumed it got lost in the pile so I was trying to bring attention to it. :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2015, @05:52PM
I pretty much agree with this. There is one thing I would suggest, not as a change to the moderation system, but rather as a sort of "gentlemen's agreement" when moderating a comment as something like Disagree. When someone does this but adds no comment of their own, it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. So, if anyone does add a moderation of Disagree could they please tell us why they disagree? That would give those of us following the discussion at least some idea of what specifically they objected to. Otherwise it can look as if someone is using their karma to settle some old scores after getting butt hurt in a previous discussion. Also, I've noticed on at least one occasion someone post some pretty obvious flame bait then get upmodded as Insightful. At the time I strongly suspected this poster as using a sock puppet to do that. I should think that those in charge should come down pretty hard on anyone caught doing that as it damages the credibility of the entire site.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by danomac on Wednesday May 20 2015, @06:25PM
There's only one way to fix that, and that's to not allow AC posting.
Alternatively, I wonder if there could be a mechanism that monitors AC posts and their moderation. If lots of AC comments are being downmodded over a set time, once it hits a threshold AC posts are banned for a short time. To extend that, maybe it could even monitor the IP of the AC, and ban only it or its subnet.
This way if the AC community wants to be a bunch of arseholes the rest of the community doesn't have to suffer.
(Score: 2) by paulej72 on Wednesday May 20 2015, @06:34PM
There is a method that already exists for this, but there is an issue with the system that calculates the karma of an IP or subnet (the only way to track AC's). The problem is that an IP or subnet karma can be over the current 50 point karma limit. This means that it really hard for downmods to bring an AC user into karma trouble if they are good about getting at least a few upvoted comments.
This issue is on on my todo list to look into and see why the karma limit is not set for IPs and subnets. The recent bout of AC trolls and the newish spam mod brought this discrepancy to light just recently.
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(Score: 2) by danomac on Thursday May 21 2015, @12:35AM
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2015, @09:17PM
While I understand your concerns with the occasional AC running amok, I would strenuously object to banning AC posting. I do not have an account. I always post as AC. This is a deliberate choice on my part. And, in case you were wondering, many of my posts do end up getting upmodded, so I do think I contribute responsibly to the discussion. (So far since I started posting comments here several months ago, only one of my posts has been downmodded.) I have noticed this occasional call for eliminating AC posting as a means of stripping away the veil, as it were, so that various shit-stirrers will be exposed. While this is true, I think elimination of AC posting could have it's own set of problems. I have noticed on more than one occasion that someone's response to a comment was just as much an ad hominem reaction to the person as to what they had actually said. On the other side, when I post as AC it forces people to actually respond to what I have said. For these reasons, I think that AC postings have their place here on SN.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by VanessaE on Thursday May 21 2015, @07:37AM
Then how about only disallowing AC-without-login posting? By that I mean you could post as AC if you want, but to do so, you have to create an account and/or login and then tick the "Post Anonymously" checkbox (i.e. the one right below this edit box) just before you submit your post.
One could even have a setting in their account preferences to tick that box by default.
The system would then track posts by originating user account (as though those users weren't posting as AC), and those posts and any mod actions taken against them would affect the posters' karma accordingly, but it would still hide the posters' identities from the rest of the readers.
The whole point of AC was to hide one's identity, wasn't it? Using that to avoid the fallout from moderation is not a legit use of the feature, and is a big part of why there are so many spammers and trolls on the green site (as well as the few we get here).
In any case, it's not like it takes much effort to create an account, and it's not as if you have to supply money or your real name to do so (ironic I should say this, since this IS my real name :-P ).
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday May 21 2015, @11:28AM
There are people who simply do not want to create an account on principle. Moderation seems to do fairly well at keeping the crud buried, and if necessary, sysops have access to the "bitchslap" script which can mass mod an entire IPID or subnet ID to oblivion (we've fortunately never had to use this). Some of the best comments I've read come from ACs who simply do not want to register. There are benefits to having an account such as persistent preferences, but I'm fairly happy with allowing ACs to comment. If it ever became a true issue, we can block AC posting on a per-story basis (functionality we inherited).
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