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posted by CoolHand on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:14AM   Printer-friendly
from the erosion-of-rights dept.

The Guardian reports that Britain's most senior Muslim policeman, Mak Chisty, has warned "Islamist propaganda is so potent it is influencing children as young as five and should be countered with intensified monitoring to detect the earliest signs of anti-western sentiment". He gives several examples of indoctrination being forced upon children as young as five (Christmas being "haram" [an act forbidden by Islam]) and teenagers being groomed to join ISIS.

Chishty said friends and family of youngsters should be intervening much earlier, watching out for subtle, unexplained changes, which could also include sudden negative attitudes towards alcohol, social occasions and western clothing. They should challenge and understand what caused such changes in behaviour, the police commander said, and seek help, if needs be from the police, if they are worried.

[...] Chishty said communities in Britain had to act much earlier. He said: "We need to now be less precious about the private space. This is not about us invading private thoughts, but acknowledging that it is in these private spaces where this [extremism] first germinates. The purpose of private-space intervention is to engage, explore, explain, educate or eradicate. Hate and extremism is not acceptable in our society, and if people cannot be educated, then hate and harmful extremism must be eradicated through all lawful means." [...] Asked to define "private space", Chishty said: "It's anything from walking down the road, looking at a mobile, to someone in a bedroom surfing the net, to someone in a shisha cafe talking about things."

[...] He said friends and family were best placed to intervene. Questions should be asked, he said, if someone stops shopping at Marks & Spencer [a shop perceived to be Jewish owned] or starts voicing criticism. He said it could be they were just fed up with the store, but alternatively they could have "hatred for that store". He said the community should "look out for each other", that ISIS was "un-Islamic", as proven by its barbarity.

turgid notes:

As an atheist who enthusiastically celebrates Christmas, eats chocolate eggs at Easter and carves turnips or pumpkins at Halloween, I find it very strange that people of many religions often artificially exclude themselves from harmless and enjoyable local traditional customs. I find it very sad that we have young people brought up in a strictly-controlled environment cut off from the ideas and views of the rest of the world. I also find it abhorrent that the Establishment now finds itself publicly calling for the complete abandonment one of the core values of individual liberty.

Maybe the rest of us shouldn't worry because we're not Muslim? Where have I heard this before?

Meanwhile, our government is attempting to tear up the Human Rights Act. It's easier to control when the proles have no rights.


[Editor's Comment: Original Submission. Significant edits to this submission have been made - acknowledgement of the submitter has been changed to reflect this. janrinok]

 
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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:36AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:36AM (#187883)

    Nigga, don yo be actin White.

    Hajji, don yo be actin Western.

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:42AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:42AM (#187885)

    OK, let's try again without the Ebonics.

    Just as Black youths are told not to "act" White, Muslim youths are told not to "act" Western.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Tuesday May 26 2015, @12:30PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 26 2015, @12:30PM (#187981)

      Its an interesting interpretation, might be correct, but my first guess after the observation of UK teens running away from home to join ISIS was its not a muslim thing its just the same old story of teens doing stupid stuff for attention, then when the journalists feed them with attention, more of them do the same.

      Its the same old story for at least decades if not all eternity. Pretty much since the concept of "teen" was invented (you're biologically an adult, but we're going to frustrate you by treating you 100% like a child until an arbitrary calendar date at which time you're 100% an adult).

      Flappers, motorcycle gangs, plain old gangland gangs, hippies, band groupies, rabid fans of shitty music, teen suicides ... I think we could play this game for awhile listing similar historical examples. The only new aspect is the teens accurately figured out that the only thing more likely to piss off their parents and get them in the news than offing themselves or becoming hippies is, at least in 2015, to join ISIS.

      If you want it to go away, ignore news reports. Eventually the journalists will figure out that "teen ISIS" stories don't generate page clicks, and stop reporting, at which time the "cry for attention" emo teen crowd will find something else to get attention. The problem is I'm not sure offing themselves is necessarily "better" than joining ISIS. Or is it "better" to become a drug addict than join ISIS? Or on the bright side maybe they'd turn to shitty music for attention, hip hop / rap fanaticism would be less bad than ISIS... well... probably.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday May 26 2015, @12:40PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 26 2015, @12:40PM (#187983)

        Oh and as a follow up I forgot to mention its hardly binary. I'm certain at least some percentage of motivation for the teens is attention seeking, and at least some percentage is ops suggestion that its cultural belonging / pruning.

        As a third proposal I just came up with the interesting idea that its like civil disobedience. From what little I know most of the kids get their media attention and are tossed in protective custody unharmed long before reaching the front lines. In that way its kind of a civil disobedience. Clearly the west has killed millions of innocent muslim civilians in the quest for oil and glory while obeying Israels orders, you'd have to be some kind of moron not to see that. If you're part of the group thats being genocided, and 99% of the population around you isn't in the group and don't give a F about a million innocent dead arab civilians, which is also certainly true, then you could interpret making a public statement and getting tossed into protective custody as good ole civil disobedience. Once in awhile, teens, being young and stupid, probably fail in their attempt at "making a statement" and instead of making a big public show of civil disobedience and sitting in the klink for awhile, end up coming back in body bags or captured on the battle front rather than enroute. By analogy imagine how we'd think of civil rights demonstrators if 99.9% of the population actively disagreed with them... "they're just crazy idiot kids running away from home to march and shout slogans none of us believe in toss em in jail and let em rot"

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @01:34PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @01:34PM (#188008)

      > Just as Black youths are told not to "act" White, Muslim youths are told not to "act" Western.

      That's a great point, if your goal is disprove the premise since the "acting white" meme is just a racist myth. [vox.com]

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Tuesday May 26 2015, @05:48PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday May 26 2015, @05:48PM (#188166)

        No, it's not, that's impossible.

        From your own link:

        Even President Barack Obama said in 2004, when he was running for US Senate, "Children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white."

        President Obama is black, and it's impossible for blacks to be racist according to people on the left, so logically it's impossible for "acting white" to be a racist myth since a black person is repeating it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:24PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @06:24PM (#188175)

          > it's impossible for blacks to be racist according to people on the left,

          So are you admitting to be a person on the left?
          You are using their definitions, that makes you a leftie doesn't it?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @08:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @08:52PM (#188268)

          and it's impossible for blacks to be racist according to people on the left

          Mindless demonization of the "other side" at its finest. Only Fox News and the idiots who watch it would be stupid enough to think that anyone in the world would think that being white is a requirement to be racist. Morons always seem to think that its impossible for other people to be smarter than them, shit like this is a great example of that.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @12:26AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @12:26AM (#188361)

            and it's impossible for blacks to be racist according to people on the left

            Mindless demonization of the "other side" at its finest. Only Fox News and the idiots who watch it would be stupid enough to think that anyone in the world would think that being white is a requirement to be racist.

            Actually, I have heard more than once that "being white is a requirement to be racist". The first time I heard it, I thought it was the most idiotic bit of polemic I had ever heard. I still do. I won't bother to google this one for you, but I'm pretty sure you will find some "interesting" links if you do.

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @12:52AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @12:52AM (#188371)

              > Actually, I have heard more than once that "being white is a requirement to be racist"

              Despite the fact that google finds exactly zero instances of that phrase, I am sure the sentiment behind it has been expressed more than once.

              But attributing the views of the extreme to the mainstream is just intellectual dishonesty. We don't say that "according to people on the right all blacks are inferior" just because some extremist right-wingers have said it.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @03:16PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2015, @03:16PM (#188640)

                That's because it's not explicitly worded as such, see this article [rationalwiki.org] and especially the references.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 27 2015, @05:04PM

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday May 27 2015, @05:04PM (#188694)

            Bullshit. Leftists (ones on the far left) actually believe this. Here's a few links:

            http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/12/university-diversity-officer-minority-women-cant-be-racist/ [dailycaller.com]

            http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mccarthy/2008/03/24/joy-behar-oppressed-minorities-cant-be-racist [newsbusters.org] (this one's a right-wing source, but they're quoting a person on "The View")

            http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2010/03/23/one-simple-reason-why-blacks-cant-be-racist/ [thoughtleader.co.za]

            Just google for "minorities can't be racist" for lots more.

            The whole assertion rests on the idea that "oppressed minorities" have no political power, so they can't use their prejudice to harm others.

            So no, it isn't Faux News watchers who believe this, it's actually the wackos on the fringes of the left.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @09:24PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @09:24PM (#188279)

          > impossible for "acting white" to be a racist myth since a black person is repeating it.

          Yet another unintentionally revealing post by a racist.
          You aren't bothering to dispute the "myth" part of that claim - your problem is with the idea that it is a racist myth.
          Because that is the important part.

          The fact that racists, like the OP, cite it all the time, that's irrelevant. Just so long as the myth itself isn't racist.

          Priorities!

        • (Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday May 27 2015, @01:30AM

          by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday May 27 2015, @01:30AM (#188388) Journal

          Disclaimer: I modded both you and GP up.

          I found this section more interesting:

          For example, in a study published in the American Sociological Review in 1998, James Ainsworth-Darnell and Douglas Downey, using data from the National Educational Longitudinal Study, found that black students offered more optimistic responses than their white counterparts to questions about the following: (1) the kind of occupation they expected to have at age 30, (2) the importance of education to success, (3) whether they felt that teachers treated them well, (4) whether the teachers were good, (4) whether it was okay to break rules, (5) whether it was okay to cheat, (6) whether other students viewed them as a "good student" (6) whether other students viewed them as a "troublemaker," and (7) whether they tried as hard as they could in class.

          Findings like these fly in the face of the idea that black students think academic achievement is "white" or negative, or that it's something they must actively shun for acceptance and popularity.

          When Toldson analyzed raw data from a 2005 CBS News monthly poll of 1,000 high school students, who were asked their opinions on being smart and other smart students, he saw this reflected again.

          Students were asked, "Thinking about the kids who get good grades in your school, which one of these best describes how you see them: 1) cool, 2) normal, 3) weird, 4) boring, or 5) admired?" The responses of black males, black females, white males, and white females were around the same. But black males were the most likely (17 percent) to consider such students "cool."

          Students also answered this question: "In general, if you really did well in school, is that something you would be proud of and tell all your friends about, or something you would be embarrassed about and keep to yourself?" Eighty-nine percent of all students said they would be "proud and tell all." Black females were top among this group, with 95 percent saying they'd be proud. Meanwhile, white males, at 17 percent, were the most likely to say they would be "embarrassed or keep to self" or report that they "did not know" how they would handle the news that they were doing very well academically.

          The next part of the article demonstrates that the “nerd stigma” exists in all races. Another section (before the above quote) mentions that black students with a 3.5 GPA tend to be the most popular in the black demographic.

          In regards to that study, Toldson criticises “Fryer's 2006 research paper ‘Acting White: The Social Price Paid by the Best and the Brightest Minority Students:’”

          Plus, Toldson pointed out, even if the results had shown that the highest-achieving students at all schools had the fewest friends, that would have indicated a connection between grades and popularity, but wouldn't have supported the core of the "acting white" theory itself. "Methodologically, the study has to make the ostensible leap that the number of friends a black student has is a direct measure and a consequence of acting white," he explained.

          My take-away is that it could be the case that factors we already know have an effect on student performance such as family stability and parental involvement are the main problem. These factors would also coincide with poverty.