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posted by martyb on Monday June 01 2015, @12:52AM   Printer-friendly
from the ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη dept.

“Dan” seems at first to perfectly embody that popular object of scorn these days in San Francisco: the privileged tech worker. He’s a developer-turned-manager at a thriving startup, the type of guy you would expect to see dodging protesters at a Google bus stop or evicting low-income tenants in order to build his dream condo. But beyond that veneer of untouchable privilege, there is a soft underbelly. He’s a 40-year-old virgin, and his troubles with women are bad enough that he’s sought out a sex therapist for help.

This is in part a result of techies’ higher-than-average salaries, which allow them to pay for therapy, particularly when it comes to non-traditional counseling that isn’t covered by insurance. There’s something else at play here, though: In general, tech workers are more vulnerable to issues around love and intimacy, according to several local sex therapists I’ve interviewed. The reasons for this are wide-ranging, but in Dan’s particular case, it resulted from being tagged as a prodigy at a young age. He excelled in science and was encouraged to pursue it to the exclusion of all else.

The men, like Dan, who are coming to see her have been hindered by the very thing that allows them to excel in their field. “There is a very strong reinforcement [in tech] on using your brain,” says McGrath. “You brain is what’s of value.” But when it comes to sex, she says, “our brains are bullshit.”


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Monday June 01 2015, @06:09AM

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday June 01 2015, @06:09AM (#190574) Journal

    Lot of angles to this. Girls are encouraged to hate and be jealous of smart, nerdy, geeky guys. There are exceptions, but on the whole, high school is terrible for geeks. The average girls want the studly football captain, or the tough, bad boy biker/punk rocker guy in black leather and spikes, or Prince Charming with muscles and money. And that's fine, we didn't want them anyway. The few girls who sort of like nerds are squelched by the popular "in" crowd. However, most girls don't yet appreciate the nerd, not at that age. Then there's the whole social stigma against smart girls, summed up so cringingly with that infamous Barbie doll that says "math is hard". Plenty of stigma for the guys too, of course. The sex ed class misses badly, dwelling on the consequences of sex and not talking about love. You can't learn what sex is like from that class, though they could tell if they really wanted to. It's really tough for nerds to meet up in that environment.

    Once in college and away from the cliques, gangs, and the whole 4 year anti-intellectual bash fest that high school easily degenerates into outside of class, nerdy guys run into different barriers. First, at a public university with a party reputation, the influence of high school lingers. The party animals aren't completely out of the way until they've all flunked out and gone home. Then, the engineering student runs into the next cruel fact of life: engineering has few women. I spent one of my free electives on a pathetically obvious attempt to meet more women. Took a class on Courtship and Marriage. At least it was about 50/50 on the sex ratio. But of the guys, half were engineering nerds who had the same hopeless idea, and the other half were football players and other academic duffers looking for the easy A. The women were not over the quest for muscles, and all ignored the nerds in favor of the jocks.

    In the workplace, the sex ratio is as bad as in the college of engineering. If it's a Dilbertesque nightmare of a job, and you're stressed to the max, sweating over losing your job if you don't work long hours or lose out in the vicious office politics, you aren't in good mental shape to impress the ladies. Next, most women do not appreciate financial prudence. The engineer is happy with a modest home and car, but the women aren't impressed. Or there's grad school, where graduate level engineering tends to be even more lonely. I also continued playing MMORPGs, as some people have met there. Didn't work for me. In the early days of MMORPGs, the players were almost all the geekier sorts of people, but after a few years the general public discovered them, and the quality of people in there really dropped off. As for dating web sites, I had the misfortune to join Match when they were scamming people, keeping old profiles around, even having staff members string guys along to keep them paying that monthly fee. However, decent and honest dating sites seldom landed me a girlfriend either. Tried a nightclub now and then, but simply do not fit in. And the noise level makes conversation too much trouble.

    Another problem was the uncertain economy. Both men and women are a lot less excited about marrying and starting families when the economy is in the toilet.

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by blackhawk on Monday June 01 2015, @11:27AM

    by blackhawk (5275) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:27AM (#190642)

    This is a pile of the worst sort of bullshit.

    If you're not hitting it off with girls it's not your job, your intelligence or your interests. It's not the number of girls / boys in your classes. You can't blame all these environmental things and not look at the real cause, it's you. MMORPGs are not chasing away girls, it's you who is doing that. I'm not even going to bother to try and guess the causes of it because 99% it's your personality that's doing it.

    Stop looking for external reasons, spend a little time looking at yourself.

    If you can make a girl laugh (without humiliating yourself or others), if you can hold up a conversation (listen, involve yourself, and share a little), treat her with respect but not white knight her like a desperate loser, and dance with her, you're moving in the right direction.

    The ratio of girls to guys in my uni course was 1 to 150. I played D&D, wrote code, dressed like crap due to being poor, and had every nerd disadvantage you can name. Didn't matter. I could talk to girls, make them laugh, feel comfortable and engage with them...basic human skills - despite it taking concious effort from me to use those skills.

    Didn't matter, since you can leave the uni and go to outside places with more girls...buy a couple of outfits that look nice, if that's important to you, and strike up a conversation with anyone. Nothing to lose really, just do it - circulate, live without your safety net.

    I had a very good time during those years. You could too. I just had to leave my comfort zone...

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Monday June 01 2015, @02:07PM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday June 01 2015, @02:07PM (#190707)

      You keep using the word "uni". Are you American? If not, your experiences don't apply, because you're from a completely different culture.

      Anyway, the parent was completely correct. I don't know what world you live in, but here in the real world, if you're in an environment where there are no girls (like engineering school and engineering workplaces), then "striking up a conversation" with a girl simply isn't possible because there are none. The OP likely isn't in any social circles that have any significant numbers of women in them, and doesn't have any extracurricular activities which have a lot of females. That's the whole problem. Here in America, if you're 30 and under (and over too, usually), if your workplace doesn't have women, then your next venues to meet women are church and bars. If you're not a holy roller, and not a big drinker, then those aren't going to work out well for you.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VanderDecken on Monday June 01 2015, @06:03PM

      by VanderDecken (5216) on Monday June 01 2015, @06:03PM (#190804)

      I concur.

      Go take a dance class. One of those ones that teach many styles of social dancing including ballroom. DON'T join with the mind focus of picking someone up; join to learn some (very useful) new skills. These kind of classes will typically have you changing partners every dance. Practise your conversation skills a bit while practising your dancing skills, but pay attention to the lesson. (Don't step on her toes :) Be friendly, even if your partner-of-the-moment doesn't appeal to you. Women notice how you treat other women. Don't try to over-impress. Be clean, dress neatly (neat doesn't imply expensive). Oh, and the female-to-male ratio is often 2-to-1 or more :) Even if you don't meet anyone appropriate, being able and interested in dancing is a *very* useful life-long skill. (And keep it up after you're married.)

      Grab a friend and take in some live theatre, a symphony, or similar events. Mingle during intermission. There are often ladies there that are out with their own friends and willing to talk. Don't overdue it and be creepy. Be honest. Don't make shit up that will come back to bite you later.

      Take a cooking class. You know how to bake? Great ... try Thai cooking (or whatever).

      Got a vacation coming up? Travel and stay in hostels. (Are you older? They're not just youth hostels any more.) Visit. Talk to strangers.

      It's all about attitude and confidence. Push your comfort zone, and before long you'll realize that it's moved out a lot. Do new things for their own enjoyment and often you will find people who share your interests.

      When you meet someone, treat her with respect. Listen. Talk about more than just yourself.

      And if after all that you still haven't met The One, you still haven't wasted your time; you're miles ahead of where you started.

      --
      The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday June 01 2015, @11:01PM

      by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:01PM (#190933) Journal

      Lots of good advice above this post from VanderDecken and from you, but I think Grishnakh and Bzipitidoo also have good points. It's likely a regional thing.

      My personal take is that I see guys setting two bars: 1.) which women are “unobtainable?” and 2.) which women are undesirable? I think in a lot of these incel cases those bars are too close. On the other hand, one guy I know made it a serious goal to get laid, went through what must have been 100 women, but finally got laid.

      Also consider The Hot Crazy Matrix [duckduckgo.com]. (Yours truly is in unicorn territory, and I know plenty of “trannies”—maybe no Harisoos, but I hope they remember to give interested guys “the talk.”) The Hot Crazy Matrix I've found seems to be a good working model. Attractive women who won the genetic lottery are often put on a pedistal, and they quickly learn that they can get away with anything. Just like tallness in men is confused for leadership ability, attractiveness in women is confused for intelligence and other virtues.

      Then there are rape cultures. We know all about Schrödinger's Rapist, so let me introduce Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation. Geeks tend to overthink everything, and this one is particularly fiendish. I remember that at Grand Valley State University towards the turn of the century, guys were made incredibly aware that any kind of flirting could be sexual harassment and any physical contact can be rape. If there's alcohol involved, then it's date rape. What makes Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation particularly fiendish is that at least a rapist knows what he's doing, but that false rape accusation can come at any point after the fact and persist in spite of witnesses who report the contact was consensual.

      I can't find the specific case I'm thinking of at the moment (might do some more googling later tonight after I mow the lawn, really need to set up a wiki for myself to track these things if I'm going to be an armchair pseudo-MRA), but basically, boy and girl who are friends get drunk, have sex (while [male] roommate is in the room!) have an awkward moment the next day, then decide to forget it happened. Over summer break, girl's mom snoops through her diary and finds out about it. Mom confronts girl, mommy's perfect little girl who would never have drunken sex is on the spot, and she claims rape. Boy gets b& from college due to a hysterical, out-of-whack, almost completely false report about the incident written up by the women's services department. Fortunately, this one may have, if not a happy ending, at least a somewhat just ending if boy wins discrimination lawsuit against the college.

      I can't help but to wonder if Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation is on the mind of young geeks in college these days and if that doesn't deter them from going outside their comfort zone and learning those social skills until they find themselves becoming a 40 year old virgin and needing professional help.

      (I did find an interesting editorial [time.com] that seems to share my sentiment that rape cultures don't do any good but haven't completely read it yet. They mention some kind of growing rape problem on campuses but I didn't check if they refute it further down.)

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 01 2015, @01:59PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 01 2015, @01:59PM (#190701)

    That was the most basic piece of advice I ever got when I was taught how to fly-fish. It applies to dating, too. It pays to be where the women you want to meet are. It pays to meet them in circumstances that are low-pressure, low-consequence; this is especially important if you suffer from social anxiety around women. Trying to pick a woman up in a bar is high-pressure, with a high probability of humiliation. Meeting them as part of a group activity of shared interest, like a photography club or outdoors club, is a much, much better way. You get to know the regular participants and they get to know you. You'll get comfortable with each other on an acquaintance basis and they'll get the chance to see the real you. And because you're participating in a shared interest, the ice-breakers are already supplied, eg. "Have you ever tried that hike on Bear Mountain? A co-worker told me the first mile is a steep rock scramble but the rest is easy, with excellent views of the Hudson Valley..."

    Bear in mind that it will take time to do this. Socialization is a skill, a muscle like any other, that requires time and effort to develop. You are not going to meet your soulmate in 5 minutes in a chatroom. It is worth doing, and the chances of success are quite high if you go about it this way. You also get to have fun doing the activity and get a break from your technical endeavors.

    Last thought--there are personality and career types that pair well with engineers and scientists. One is other engineers and scientists. Women do exist in those disciplines, but remain regrettably rare. Another, more populous sector are artists, artisans, and other creative people. They can see and appreciate your creativity and the technical mastery involved in what you do. Women who work in teaching, medicine, and non-profit pair well, too, because those careers place more emphasis on caring and humanity than on greed and flashy cars. Women from certain cultures are also more receptive to men with engineering and scientific backgrounds. South Asian, Asian, German/Dutch, and Jewish communities place a much higher value on technical endeavor than other sectors of American society (provided you're in America, that is).

    In short, if you are only interested in women who are primarily attracted to jocks, then, yes, as a geek you will have trouble. But if you step back and consider all the other varieties of fine women out there, you will find you can find them if you take the time to look.

    • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday June 01 2015, @03:15PM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday June 01 2015, @03:15PM (#190733)

      Last thought--there are personality and career types that pair well with engineers and scientists.

      You helpfully list some career types which pair well with engineers. What are career types which don't? This would be useful information to help weed out people.

      I'm going to take a stab and guess legal, law enforcement, and military are probably bad ones. Not a lot of "caring and humanity" in women from those career fields.

      Finally, does anyone have any opinions on mail-order brides? It seems like men like this are perfect candidates for that. A lot of male engineers and scientists tend to be quiet, introverted types, and that just doesn't seem to go very well with LOUD American women; a woman from south Asia is probably a better personality match.

      • (Score: 1) by Noble713 on Monday June 01 2015, @11:06PM

        by Noble713 (4895) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:06PM (#190936)

        You helpfully list some career types which pair well with engineers. What are career types which don't? This would be useful information to help weed out people.

        I'm going to take a stab and guess legal, law enforcement, and military are probably bad ones. Not a lot of "caring and humanity" in women from those career fields.

        Agreed, the mentality of "Screen to disqualify" is so important and most guys are so thirsty they don't realize that not all cute women are worth dating. Unfortunately, classifying the different types of women is something I've consistently struggled with as I'm bad at "reading people". Vin diCarlo codified 8 different personality types in women, you can probably align them with particular careers: http://vindicarlopandorasboxreview.tumblr.com/post/29318806373/vin-dicarlo-pandoras-box-eight-different-types [tumblr.com]

        And as an ex-military guy.....I'll agree on avoiding military women. Most of them are getting RUN THROUGH by a ridiculous number of the men that they serve with. And the ones that AREN'T tend to be.....odd.

        Finally, does anyone have any opinions on mail-order brides? It seems like men like this are perfect candidates for that. A lot of male engineers and scientists tend to be quiet, introverted types, and that just doesn't seem to go very well with LOUD American women; a woman from south Asia is probably a better personality match.

        I live in Asia, and done a *little* travel in central Europe. I don't recommend using "mail order bride" websites or going on organized dating tours. But I DO, wholeheartedly and overwhelmingly, suggest that men abandon American women and find mates elsewhere. This means planning multi-week trips to countries, learning the basics of the local language, and using online dating sites and smartphone apps to help you schedule at least a few dates with women who are interested in you.

        Whether its SE Asia, Eastern Europe, or South America, there is an abundance of affectionate, supportive, amicable, feminine, and youthful women around the globe who want a kind, financially-secure man. A large subset of these women are willing and eager to date foreigners. And they don't mind dating older men either. American men who aren't well-traveled just don't realize how toxic Western women have become. They've priced themselves out of the global sexual marketplace (much like American labor in general)....and men should stop buying what they are selling.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Nuke on Monday June 01 2015, @11:58PM

          by Nuke (3162) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:58PM (#190962)
          Noble 713 wrote :- "But I DO, wholeheartedly and overwhelmingly, suggest that men abandon American women and find mates elsewhere"

          Western women have become spoiled, the USA sounding similar to the UK. Basically, with women able to earn as much as men, they have no "need" to marry like they did years ago, and many withdraw from the dating scene after a little playing (or never enter it), often with a baby (whose father is back in the dating scene the very next day), and live the rest of their life without a man. Most women do not have the imperative sexual imperitive that most men do, and being a spinster no longer carries any stigma as it used to.

          The women who do remain in the dating/partnership/marriage scene are therefore seriously outnumbered by the men. They can afford to be very fussy and make no attempt to conceal their contempt for any guy who they believe to have assessed in their first glance as not meeting their standards.

          I am English married an English girl, but previously had (among others) South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends. These were definitely more positive about my having a good and steady (if technical) job and being a "gentleman" rather than a "bad-boy" or jock. With English girls I felt I needed to conceal or play down that I was a techie and had high qualifications, rather than being in marketing, admin or banking, or even in construction work.

          Another option not mentioned here is to find a girl who is, frankly, a bit dim and submissive. I had one or two of those as GF's too, and it worked suprisingly well. Opposites can attract and balance. They tend to appreciate and even be proud of having a boyfriend who treats them as a lady and is clearly from a better social background - it seemed to be a novelty to them and even my old car (at the time) impressed them. They were always happy to let me make the decisions, and I guess they would have been quite tolerant of my foibles in married life.
          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:01PM

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:01PM (#191136)

            Another option not mentioned here is to find a girl who is, frankly, a bit dim and submissive.

            I'm not so sure this is a good idea, at least for me personally. I ended up marrying someone who wasn't as smart or educated as me (but definitely not submissive, actually closer to the opposite) and it hasn't worked out well at all, so we're separated now. The differences in intelligence and educational background have been a big problem; she feels like I'm constantly "correcting" her, and I feel like I can't make any kind of suggestion at all without it being taken badly. And she's not even what I'd call "dim" by a long shot, just not up to my level. While a submissive girl probably wouldn't have the problem of becoming terrible self-conscious about her mistakes and wouldn't get offended when I suggest things or make decisions, I do feel I'd get pretty bored with someone like that after a while. I've always wanted an equal partner I could respect, not someone I have to take care of like a kid.

            I am English married an English girl, but previously had (among others) South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends.

            Were these women who had somehow already made their way to the UK to live?

            • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Tuesday June 02 2015, @04:26PM

              by Nuke (3162) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @04:26PM (#191184)
              I wrote :- "Another option not mentioned here is to find a girl who is, frankly, a bit dim and submissive."

              Grishnakh replied :- "I'm not so sure this is a good idea, at least for me personally."

              It does depend on your personality, and theirs. I don't want an intellectual sparring partner, I get enough of that at work (and maybe here!), and there are plenty of things I like to do alone like tinkering with cars, going for long bike rides. The Eurasian girl was not bright, but similarly liked to spend a lot of time with her three sisters (all four jaw-dropping pretty :-). OTOH she was homely, and immaculately clean and tidy, which I liked. Far from resenting me being brighter, she found confidence with me. She just accepted what I did and said, to a fault maybe.

              I was thunderstruck when I recently happened to see the 1993 film ""Murder in the Heartland"; because the 14 yo Caril Fulgate, played by Fairuza Balk, was exactly like my GF in looks, intellect and mannerisms, although my girl was 19-21 and had an Indian accent. She was always being challenged in bars about her age.

              "Were these women [South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends] who had somehow already made their way to the UK to live?"

              Yes; Malay was a nurse, quite bright but submissive by culture, sweet, perhaps I should have stayed with her; the Brazillian girl had an EU passport as her mother was Italian, I was not sociable enough for her; and the Eurasian I described was from an Anglo-Indian police family who had returned from India when her father retired - I felt that her mother/grandmother were pushing her to me in the Indian tradition of arrangements, and she was OK with that because guys she'd previouly known gave her the creeps - they wanted to treat her like a Barbie doll, dress her in leather etc. OTOH I treated her with respect and she felt safe with me.

              I met them all in dating clubs (before Internet dating, equivalent) - I never met girls any other way and would not want to.
        • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday June 02 2015, @05:47AM

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @05:47AM (#191045) Journal

          "American men who aren't well-traveled just don't realize how toxic Western women have become." Yes, I forgot to mention that. Many American women have such extreme expectations that there's no pleasing them. I didn't have to travel to see that either. Some start changing their attitudes when they reach their late 30s still single and childless, and realize they would rather not stay that way. And of course, some do not. Of those, some are happy to stay single. Others become bitter. An interesting example from history were 3 of the sisters of King Louis XVI of France. They didn't want just any royalty for a husband, they wanted the crown prince or king, and of a real power, not of some piddly country like Monaco. Commoners were right out! They turned down all offers, and eventually, the offers stopped coming. They never married or had any children, and gained a reputation of being bitter old hags. Hard to say how justified that reputation was, as anyone who doesn't meet social expectations is often slandered on all sorts of issues, related or not.

          As to other parts of the world, they're making things worse for men. Every couple wants to have a boy, not a girl, and some actually murder baby girls for being the wrong gender. I hear China is especially bad that way. There have even been cases of female tourists being kidnapped and forced to marry a farmer.

          As to the suggestions of getting out there and going where the women are, places like the dance floor, that's fine, but what about the other direction? Will some of the women go where the men are? Mostly. that's a big no, they won't because they don't have to. Men come crawling to women, not the other way around. As several others have pointed out, women are bombarded with offers. That in itself is most suggestive of the imbalance. When room and resources run short, it is the females who pull back. That is, I feel, where we're at. Much more so than men, women want to feel secure before having any children,

          However, one exception is church. If you don't believe, and you're going to church just to meet women, they're going to be very unhappy when they learn you're a godless atheist or agnostic. I wonder how many men fake a lifetime of devotion to land and keep a wife. I refused to do that, so for me, church was out.

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:16PM

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:16PM (#191142)

            However, one exception is church. If you don't believe, and you're going to church just to meet women, they're going to be very unhappy when they learn you're a godless atheist or agnostic. I wonder how many men fake a lifetime of devotion to land and keep a wife. I refused to do that, so for me, church was out.

            Yep, I'm the same way. My current (separated) wife used to be more religious and go to "non-denominational Christian" churches before I met her, and complained a lot about it: they would constantly preach to young women how they had to "not be unequally yoked", meaning they needed to only date men who went to church. So, as she put it, at some smaller church there'd be 10 beautiful 20-something women, and 1 creepy-looking fat weirdo with a handlebar mustache who had horrible social manners, and the women would all be chasing him.

            So, if you're willing to live a lie, and marry someone who talks about Jesus 24x7 and quotes Bible versus constantly, you can probably find an attractive woman in one of these churches.

            There is a common stereotype of women "dragging" men to church on Sundays; I even heard a country song about that not long ago. If women are, in general, a lot more religious than men in our society, this would definitely cause problems with the non-religious men like us refusing to date them (and trust me, don't do it, it's not worth it: I went through some of that with my current almost-ex-wife (now separated) and it was miserable; she was less religious and rigid by the time I hooked up with her, but it was still way too much), and lots of people on both sides ending up perpetually single. I wonder if this is one reason there seem to be far more single men than women in our society? Are we not seeing most of the single women because they're all in church and only look there (or on places like "christiansingles.com")? Everywhere I look and read, the common theme is that single women are far outnumbered by men seeking them, and this just doesn't make any sense when you consider demographics: there's almost as many girl babies born as boys, and over the age of 30 (because young men get themselves killed in large numbers doing stupid dangerous stuff) or so, women outnumber men.

            • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:18PM

              by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:18PM (#191160) Journal

              Yes, have read that more boys are conceived, but it's all downhill from there. Male fetuses are more likely to miscarry, and boys are more likely to die pretty much at all stages of life. Worldwide, I think there is an oversupply of men thanks to the strong preference for male children in China and I think India, and their willingness and ability to manipulate the odds, even going as far as murdering baby girls shortly after birth.

              I wonder if women are more devout because they suffer more, thanks largely to discrimination. I've heard that people become more religious when they experience tough times. That would explain the imbalance in many churches.

              I actually am married now, to a devout woman who knew I was a "none" when it came to religion. She nearly dumped me over that, but had a change of heart. She likes to say grace over the food, and tries to drag me to church on Sunday. But there's no fakery, no living of a lie going on. I refused to pretend to convert for her sake. She had to accept that, or there would have been no marriage. She isn't trying to save me and bring me to Jesus, beyond worrying that the afterlife won't be as heavenly for her because she fears I will be burning in Hell. She's smart enough to see that non-Christians can be moral, ethical and upstanding citizens, and to see the opposite, that many self-proclaimed Christians are some of the biggest sinners and self-righteous jerks who can't stand to "love thy neighbor" and "judge not that ye be not judged" if that neighbor is gay, or a democrat, atheist, scientist, woman who's had an abortion, or just an insufficiently submissive woman, or all kinds of other things.

              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:29PM

                by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:29PM (#191163)

                Yes, have read that more boys are conceived, but it's all downhill from there. Male fetuses are more likely to miscarry, and boys are more likely to die pretty much at all stages of life.

                It's not just conception, it's births. There's something like a 1.07:1 male-female birth ratio, IIRC. But yes, it's downhill from there: more boys get killed before adulthood, more young men die (auto accidents, wars), so after around 30 in the US the balance is in favor of women.

                Worldwide, I think there is an oversupply of men thanks to the strong preference for male children in China and I think India

                Yes, but who cares? We're talking about western society here since we're talking about SoylentNews geeks looking for women.

                I wonder if women are more devout because they suffer more, thanks largely to discrimination.

                I think it's more like women tend to be more submissive, and men tend to be more independent-thinking.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2015, @12:25AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2015, @12:25AM (#190966)

        You helpfully list some career types which pair well with engineers. What are career types which don't? This would be useful information to help weed out people.

        I'm going to take a stab and guess legal, law enforcement, and military are probably bad ones. Not a lot of "caring and humanity" in women from those career fields.

        I can't really speak about legal or law enforcement; just don't know many of them on a personal level. On the other hand, I do work daily with officers (men and women) in the US Air Force. I must say that my estimation and admiration of these folks has risen a lot from working with them over the last several years. They are fine folks! I have observed them to be very caring and well-mannered ladies and gentlemen. In fact, their manners easily put mine to shame. I can only hope they rub off on me more than I rub off on them. So, I would encourage anyone to get to know our men and women in uniform, particularly from the Air Force, on a more personal level. I think you will be glad you did.

  • (Score: 1) by Noble713 on Tuesday June 02 2015, @12:04AM

    by Noble713 (4895) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @12:04AM (#190964)

    Lot of angles to this. Girls are encouraged to hate and be jealous of smart, nerdy, geeky guys. There are exceptions, but on the whole, high school is terrible for geeks. The average girls want the studly football captain, or the tough, bad boy biker/punk rocker guy in black leather and spikes, or Prince Charming with muscles and money.

    This is a false dichotomy. Why can't you lift weights while your code compiles? Why can't you ride a Harley in-between LAN parties? Soylent had an article a few weeks ago about the NFL player who has a PhD in Mathematics. So what's your excuse? I find most nerds who complain about how "women don't like nerds" are simply dull, weak, uninteresting people.

    And that's fine, we didn't want them anyway.

    Oh stop lying. Most importantly you're lying to yourself.

    However, decent and honest dating sites seldom landed me a girlfriend either.

    Did you have professional photographs on those sites? What sort of clothes were you wearing, or what activities were you doing in your photos?

    Online dating is an uphill battle for most men as the women are simply BOMBARDED with attention, because it requires almost no effort and entails no risk to send a message to a cute girl. You have to go above and beyond to make yourself stand out from the rest, and having pictures where you look like a male model, or like you're the most interesting man in the world, are a good way to do that. Even then the response rate is low, but it's another tool in the toolbox of acquiring women.

    • (Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday June 02 2015, @04:01AM

      by anubi (2828) on Tuesday June 02 2015, @04:01AM (#191016) Journal

      I have seen enough marital disaster in my lifetime that frankly, I am quite afraid to open the pandora's box of a relationship with a woman.

      Relationships do not seem near as simple as they were when I was a kid. Now, they seem more like a legal entanglement of massive proportions.

      There are certain things in life which I think I would just as soon let 'em ride - and this is one of them.

      Yeh, I know.... this is definitely a case of the fox and the sour grapes. I have no problem saying that. I have known this for fifty years.

      I just feel I have far more things I would like to do than pander after pussie.

      If I happen to find a woman that enjoys the things I like to do and wants to hang around, fine, but I have to admit I am pretty set in my ways of building things and tinkering that I would rather do that than participate in a bunch of stuff I find boring as hell just in order to get access to a few minutes worth of massage. I know better than ask her to put up with something she finds boring as hell. So if we don't "mesh", no sense grinding both of us out.

      So, for now, its me and the cats. ( none are mine, per se, but six are camping out around my house ).

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]