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posted by martyb on Monday June 01 2015, @12:52AM   Printer-friendly
from the ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη dept.

“Dan” seems at first to perfectly embody that popular object of scorn these days in San Francisco: the privileged tech worker. He’s a developer-turned-manager at a thriving startup, the type of guy you would expect to see dodging protesters at a Google bus stop or evicting low-income tenants in order to build his dream condo. But beyond that veneer of untouchable privilege, there is a soft underbelly. He’s a 40-year-old virgin, and his troubles with women are bad enough that he’s sought out a sex therapist for help.

This is in part a result of techies’ higher-than-average salaries, which allow them to pay for therapy, particularly when it comes to non-traditional counseling that isn’t covered by insurance. There’s something else at play here, though: In general, tech workers are more vulnerable to issues around love and intimacy, according to several local sex therapists I’ve interviewed. The reasons for this are wide-ranging, but in Dan’s particular case, it resulted from being tagged as a prodigy at a young age. He excelled in science and was encouraged to pursue it to the exclusion of all else.

The men, like Dan, who are coming to see her have been hindered by the very thing that allows them to excel in their field. “There is a very strong reinforcement [in tech] on using your brain,” says McGrath. “You brain is what’s of value.” But when it comes to sex, she says, “our brains are bullshit.”


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by blackhawk on Monday June 01 2015, @11:27AM

    by blackhawk (5275) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:27AM (#190642)

    This is a pile of the worst sort of bullshit.

    If you're not hitting it off with girls it's not your job, your intelligence or your interests. It's not the number of girls / boys in your classes. You can't blame all these environmental things and not look at the real cause, it's you. MMORPGs are not chasing away girls, it's you who is doing that. I'm not even going to bother to try and guess the causes of it because 99% it's your personality that's doing it.

    Stop looking for external reasons, spend a little time looking at yourself.

    If you can make a girl laugh (without humiliating yourself or others), if you can hold up a conversation (listen, involve yourself, and share a little), treat her with respect but not white knight her like a desperate loser, and dance with her, you're moving in the right direction.

    The ratio of girls to guys in my uni course was 1 to 150. I played D&D, wrote code, dressed like crap due to being poor, and had every nerd disadvantage you can name. Didn't matter. I could talk to girls, make them laugh, feel comfortable and engage with them...basic human skills - despite it taking concious effort from me to use those skills.

    Didn't matter, since you can leave the uni and go to outside places with more girls...buy a couple of outfits that look nice, if that's important to you, and strike up a conversation with anyone. Nothing to lose really, just do it - circulate, live without your safety net.

    I had a very good time during those years. You could too. I just had to leave my comfort zone...

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Monday June 01 2015, @02:07PM

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday June 01 2015, @02:07PM (#190707)

    You keep using the word "uni". Are you American? If not, your experiences don't apply, because you're from a completely different culture.

    Anyway, the parent was completely correct. I don't know what world you live in, but here in the real world, if you're in an environment where there are no girls (like engineering school and engineering workplaces), then "striking up a conversation" with a girl simply isn't possible because there are none. The OP likely isn't in any social circles that have any significant numbers of women in them, and doesn't have any extracurricular activities which have a lot of females. That's the whole problem. Here in America, if you're 30 and under (and over too, usually), if your workplace doesn't have women, then your next venues to meet women are church and bars. If you're not a holy roller, and not a big drinker, then those aren't going to work out well for you.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VanderDecken on Monday June 01 2015, @06:03PM

    by VanderDecken (5216) on Monday June 01 2015, @06:03PM (#190804)

    I concur.

    Go take a dance class. One of those ones that teach many styles of social dancing including ballroom. DON'T join with the mind focus of picking someone up; join to learn some (very useful) new skills. These kind of classes will typically have you changing partners every dance. Practise your conversation skills a bit while practising your dancing skills, but pay attention to the lesson. (Don't step on her toes :) Be friendly, even if your partner-of-the-moment doesn't appeal to you. Women notice how you treat other women. Don't try to over-impress. Be clean, dress neatly (neat doesn't imply expensive). Oh, and the female-to-male ratio is often 2-to-1 or more :) Even if you don't meet anyone appropriate, being able and interested in dancing is a *very* useful life-long skill. (And keep it up after you're married.)

    Grab a friend and take in some live theatre, a symphony, or similar events. Mingle during intermission. There are often ladies there that are out with their own friends and willing to talk. Don't overdue it and be creepy. Be honest. Don't make shit up that will come back to bite you later.

    Take a cooking class. You know how to bake? Great ... try Thai cooking (or whatever).

    Got a vacation coming up? Travel and stay in hostels. (Are you older? They're not just youth hostels any more.) Visit. Talk to strangers.

    It's all about attitude and confidence. Push your comfort zone, and before long you'll realize that it's moved out a lot. Do new things for their own enjoyment and often you will find people who share your interests.

    When you meet someone, treat her with respect. Listen. Talk about more than just yourself.

    And if after all that you still haven't met The One, you still haven't wasted your time; you're miles ahead of where you started.

    --
    The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday June 01 2015, @11:01PM

    by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Monday June 01 2015, @11:01PM (#190933) Journal

    Lots of good advice above this post from VanderDecken and from you, but I think Grishnakh and Bzipitidoo also have good points. It's likely a regional thing.

    My personal take is that I see guys setting two bars: 1.) which women are “unobtainable?” and 2.) which women are undesirable? I think in a lot of these incel cases those bars are too close. On the other hand, one guy I know made it a serious goal to get laid, went through what must have been 100 women, but finally got laid.

    Also consider The Hot Crazy Matrix [duckduckgo.com]. (Yours truly is in unicorn territory, and I know plenty of “trannies”—maybe no Harisoos, but I hope they remember to give interested guys “the talk.”) The Hot Crazy Matrix I've found seems to be a good working model. Attractive women who won the genetic lottery are often put on a pedistal, and they quickly learn that they can get away with anything. Just like tallness in men is confused for leadership ability, attractiveness in women is confused for intelligence and other virtues.

    Then there are rape cultures. We know all about Schrödinger's Rapist, so let me introduce Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation. Geeks tend to overthink everything, and this one is particularly fiendish. I remember that at Grand Valley State University towards the turn of the century, guys were made incredibly aware that any kind of flirting could be sexual harassment and any physical contact can be rape. If there's alcohol involved, then it's date rape. What makes Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation particularly fiendish is that at least a rapist knows what he's doing, but that false rape accusation can come at any point after the fact and persist in spite of witnesses who report the contact was consensual.

    I can't find the specific case I'm thinking of at the moment (might do some more googling later tonight after I mow the lawn, really need to set up a wiki for myself to track these things if I'm going to be an armchair pseudo-MRA), but basically, boy and girl who are friends get drunk, have sex (while [male] roommate is in the room!) have an awkward moment the next day, then decide to forget it happened. Over summer break, girl's mom snoops through her diary and finds out about it. Mom confronts girl, mommy's perfect little girl who would never have drunken sex is on the spot, and she claims rape. Boy gets b& from college due to a hysterical, out-of-whack, almost completely false report about the incident written up by the women's services department. Fortunately, this one may have, if not a happy ending, at least a somewhat just ending if boy wins discrimination lawsuit against the college.

    I can't help but to wonder if Schrödinger's False Rape Accusation is on the mind of young geeks in college these days and if that doesn't deter them from going outside their comfort zone and learning those social skills until they find themselves becoming a 40 year old virgin and needing professional help.

    (I did find an interesting editorial [time.com] that seems to share my sentiment that rape cultures don't do any good but haven't completely read it yet. They mention some kind of growing rape problem on campuses but I didn't check if they refute it further down.)