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posted by janrinok on Wednesday June 03 2015, @03:51AM   Printer-friendly
from the but-he-can't-tap-dance! dept.

Business Insider reports:

With a perfect ACT score and 13 Advanced Placement courses under his belt, Michael Wang applied to seven Ivy League universities and Stanford in 2013.

As an Asian-American, Wang suspected his race might work against him. But but he was still shocked when he was rejected by Stanford and every Ivy League school except for the University of Pennsylvania.

Wang says he worked incredibly hard and excelled in every area possible. But it still wasn't good enough.

"There was nothing humanly possible I could do," Wang told us, explaining that he felt utterly demoralized after his rejections.

After Wang was rejected from most of the Ivies, he says he filed a complaint with the US Department of Education alleging Yale, Stanford, and Princeton discriminated against him because he was Asian-American.

[...] Wang isn't alone in his belief that the Ivies discriminate against Asians. A coalition of Asian-American groups filed a lawsuit against Harvard University last month alleging the school and other Ivy League institutions use racial quotas to admit students to the detriment of more qualified Asian-American applicants. The more than 60 Asian groups are coming together to fight what they say are unfair admission practices.

[...] He also stressed that he was not just academically driven, but also a well-rounded applicant who maximized his extracurricular activities. He competed in national speech and debate competitions and math competitions. He also plays the piano and performed in the choir that sang at President Barack Obama's 2008 inauguration.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday June 03 2015, @06:48AM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2015, @06:48AM (#191475) Journal

    I can certainly understand schools not wanting anymore of them as the asian communities are stamping them out by the thousands every year. More or less identical clones of each other.

    Is being an interesting person a criterion for admission? If so, why haven't they make it public before? Isn't transparency and informed decision making attributes of a democracy?
    ...
    (if you come back with "republic not democracy" I'll ignore it like an as stupid argument as possible).

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2015, @08:20AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2015, @08:20AM (#191497)

    This has got to be the most frustrating experience a person can have. Wang has made tremendous personal sacrifices, did what "they" told him to. At the very highest quality. And got rejected.

    While our "leaders" are telling us to become STEM students?

    Who in their right mind is going to pay for all that training - only to be rejected because you did your best and excelled?

    I feel I have went through similar ( but not nearly as blatantly obvious as this ) circumstances of trying to do things properly, only to be labeled as a perfectionist, denied access to resources, then later terminated for falling behind.

    I had noted that people who did not seem to take the job nearly as seriously were getting promotions, while as hard as I tried, I just fell behind.

    "Poor social skills" often were mentioned.

    Finally, I have decided that its probably better to get a bottle of Screwitol ( AKA Vodka ) and just wait it out for Social Security.

    And consider myself fortunate to live in a country where we have so much of an excess of everything we can just throw it all away.

    Even while we are 18 trillion dollars in debt and rising at over $10,000 per second, [usdebtclock.org]we can still afford to squander our manpower and resources.

    • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday June 03 2015, @03:19PM

      by Immerman (3985) on Wednesday June 03 2015, @03:19PM (#191620)

      > "Poor social skills" often were mentioned.

      So, it seems those making the decisions explained to you why you were being passed over. Did you ever go out and study, practice, and overcome your incompetence? Or did you simply say "fuck that - this is hard and I did my learning in school, I'm done with it now" and give up?

      As someone who dismissed social skills as pointless for most of my life I can feel your pain. But pain doesn't excuse us from continuing to grow and move forward in life. And in a world where pretty much everything of significance is a collaborative endeavor, social skills are arguably among the most important skills we can acquire. Even if they're bloody difficult for some of us to learn on the fly, and nobody has written a proper text book on the subject.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Wednesday June 03 2015, @04:51PM

        by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Wednesday June 03 2015, @04:51PM (#191677)

        social skills are arguably among the most important skills we can acquire.

        Only because we live in a world filled with shallow idiots. While others try to focus on the argument at hand, or care whether or not someone can do the job and do it well, there are people who focus on what clothes you're wearing, the fact that you used a word they didn't like, or you said something in a way they didn't like. These are poisonous work environments.

        • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Wednesday June 03 2015, @04:53PM

          by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Wednesday June 03 2015, @04:53PM (#191678)

          And by "social skills", what they usually mean is "Mindlessly doing what they are told in a way that the authority figure likes." Critical thinking and creativity is not valued. Why aren't you making smalltalk with those fools over there? Why aren't you being more 'social'?

          In the end, a lot of people submit and then delude themselves into believing that this sort of thing is actually good, ensuring that nothing will change.

        • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2015, @03:37AM

          by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2015, @03:37AM (#191895)

          Not really. If part of the job is "actively collaborating with others", and it usually is, then your ability to interact with teammates, support staff, and superiors in a manner that avoids unnecessary drama, hard feelings, and general social discomfort, is directly relevant to your suitability for the position. If nobody is comfortable working with you, then your presence is actively damaging the morale and productivity of everyone who is required to do so.

          If we want to reap the rewards of playing society's game, we have to learn play by their rules. Or at least close enough that they can deal with us without suffering undue social discomfort/cognitive dissonance. Just as those who want to deal with us on a personal level have to learn to play by our rules.

          • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Thursday June 04 2015, @04:27AM

            by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Thursday June 04 2015, @04:27AM (#191914)

            Not really. If part of the job is "actively collaborating with others", and it usually is, then your ability to interact with teammates, support staff, and superiors in a manner that avoids unnecessary drama, hard feelings, and general social discomfort, is directly relevant to your suitability for the position.

            That's the shallowness I speak of. People are easily offended and expect others to speak, act, and dress exactly as they would prefer, and this is not a good thing.

            If we want to reap the rewards of playing society's game, we have to learn play by their rules.

            Or change the rules that are illogical. Giving up accomplishes nothing.

            • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2015, @02:32PM

              by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2015, @02:32PM (#192073)

              Nothing illogical about avoiding using a gear whose teeth are cut differently than every other gear in the machine - it's the most efficient way to avoid problems.

              Basically there's two options - either you change to fit the machine, or the whole F-ing machine changes to fit you. So, what do you have to offer that is so vastly superior to what the conforming candidates offer to make it worth the effort of changing the machine?

              Think of social skills as grease - not strictly necessary for the functioning of the machine, but it makes everything run smoother and reduces long-term problems.

              • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Friday June 05 2015, @03:49AM

                by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Friday June 05 2015, @03:49AM (#192365)

                Nothing illogical about avoiding using a gear whose teeth are cut differently than every other gear in the machine - it's the most efficient way to avoid problems.

                Except that there are no problems. As I made clear, the hypothetical person is able to do the job well.

                Basically there's two options - either you change to fit the machine, or the whole F-ing machine changes to fit you.

                The latter is a better option when you're right and "the machine" is wrong.

                So, what do you have to offer that is so vastly superior to what the conforming candidates offer to make it worth the effort of changing the machine?

                Logical thinking. A very important skill, and one that most don't have enough of.

                Think of social skills as grease - not strictly necessary for the functioning of the machine, but it makes everything run smoother and reduces long-term problems.

                The problems are caused by others' oversensitivity and shallowness. I make a point to show up at every job interview dressed in rags because I don't want to work with shallow people; that led me to the job I have now. Though, I suppose it helps when you can make demands because they want the skills you offer, but I'm still not going to play their game.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2015, @04:17AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2015, @04:17AM (#191910)

        Looking back in retrospect, your note of social skills being arguably among the most important skills we can acquire are validated. I did spend a lot of time doing my homework when I could have been socializing. I may not have known how to do the signal processing, but I would have been more social.

        The trouble with me was I had work to do. I had a project I wanted done right, and that often meant I did it personally. I felt awful foolish going out and screwing around when I knew that every hour spent screwing around was yet another hour my work would be delayed. I guess it was an old hangover from my earlier school-days when my parents would say things like "is your homework finished?" before I could watch TV.

        Quite simply, it never occurred to me that company CEO's would place me under management types who ranked party-skills over workmanship.

        I saw a kindred spirit in Wang. It was a kind of confirmation and closure to my frustration about knowing the great abundance of workers we have in America - so many we can just toss them, while we go into national debt paying for both the people who reject the workman, and pay for the social services for the jobless.

        If only our laws fomented productivity instead of banking/investment tricks like fractional reserve illusions and house flipping.

        As it stands, management can always hire an H1-B to come in, do the work, get screwed, and leave. Management does not have to worry about burning them out. Employees are nothing more than a rental car.

        The man who grows the apples is not nearly as valuable than the man who can pick up ten apples and throw away nine. Not in a world where apples are in great abundance. And apparently men like Wang are in great abundance... so much so they get thrown away.

        I know how worthless I felt when I was terminated. I know its a common meme. Even Matt Groenig ran an episode of "The Simpsons" on that meme with Frank Grimes.

        But then, this is what one pays for being allowed to do what one loves to do in the first place. I love to build things. No different than the one who loves to surf, play the guitar, or any number of things. I just could not see spending my life doing anything else than what I am internally driven to do. Problem is there is not much market for it.

        • (Score: 2) by linuxrocks123 on Thursday June 04 2015, @07:26AM

          by linuxrocks123 (2557) on Thursday June 04 2015, @07:26AM (#191950) Journal

          Well, if you're a programmer or engineer, there is actually quite a market for your skills. And Wang didn't get "thrown away", he got into a highly selective universities. He just thought he deserved to get into more of them. The problem is really that some good, but fairly arbitrarily chosen, schools have better name recognition among the general public (i.e., parents) than other schools which are really just as good, and better in some areas, mostly for historical reasons. So everyone applies to those 10 or so schools, and those schools basically flip a coin deciding who to let in.

          Wang thinks he "needed" to get into Harvard or Stanford, when he'll really probably be fine at UPenn and, if his college grades are good, will have a fairly easy time in the job market.

          He really should have had a less selective safety school than UPenn, though. In fact, 2 less selective safety schools would probably have been safe. But that's application strategy.

          OP START READING HERE IF YOU DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE:

          If you really don't like interacting with others THAT much, you should probably look for work where you can telecommute, or something like that. But I've been fortunate to have experience working in multiple non-toxic work environments and, as a fellow STEM devotee, I can say that interacting with co-workers can be more than doable, you can actually make friends that way. Maybe you should look for less toxic work environments when you apply for a job. Maybe you should also look at yourself, and see if you actually are the toxicity in your work environments. Please understand I don't mean that as an insult -- all I mean by that is you might be difficult to work with. Working well with others is a skill you can learn. In any case, you should probably get some counseling. Deciding to drink yourself to death is a pretty drastic decision, and one that shouldn't be made lightly, or without getting external input. And we do have universal healthcare in the US now, so you probably qualify for either Medicaid or at least premium subsidies if you're out of work but not old enough for Medicare, so hopefully and probably a few sessions with a therapist would be affordable for you no matter your financial condition.

          I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding happiness.

        • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2015, @02:49PM

          by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2015, @02:49PM (#192078)

          On the plus side, it's never too late to start developing those social skills. And you don't even have to be *good* at them, just getting to the point where you can kind of fake it while the extroverts you're dealing with do the heavy lifting makes a world of difference. Let them be the engine - just being a bearing instead of a rock in the gears makes everything go far more smoothly. And with a bit of luck and attention, after a while all that rolling around will give you a much more intuitive sense of how the game is played, and let you start driving things a bit yourself.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2015, @02:18PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2015, @02:18PM (#191602) Journal

    I think being an interesting person has been the standard in the upper echelons of the university system for a long time. I know it was 30 years ago.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 1) by Snospar on Wednesday June 03 2015, @05:29PM

    by Snospar (5366) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2015, @05:29PM (#191689)

    If we can make the broad assumption that "interesting" people have a range of skills, hobbies and life experience to draw on - in addition to their scholastic achievements - then how will any students pass the "interesting" threshold? At his age, and at his stage of life, he hasn't had the exposure to enough real life events to come across as someone that interesting. I mean, ever tried to hold down a conversation with a teenager that isn't about computer games or skateboarding, it's hard work.

    This is a case of institutional racism, plain and simple, and it should be stamped out and anyone practising it should be up on charges.

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 03 2015, @09:39PM

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 03 2015, @09:39PM (#191789)

    Is being an interesting person a criterion for admission?

    Yes, actually: That's a big part of what the admissions essay and possibly interview are about.

    The first thing about Ivy League schools that Mr Wang fails to understand: They have enough applicants to fill their entire freshmen class and then some with students who never received a grade lower than an A, took the top-track courses offered at their school, got at most about 2 questions wrong on whichever standardized test they take, and have at least a couple of interesting extracurriculars on top of that. His academic record probably got him into the 10% or so of applicants to Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Princeton that make it past the initial screening. To get past that point, you need not only a great academic record and a couple of extracurriculars, you need to also be truly interesting. And yes, the schools also look at diversity - not just race, but also gender, geography, subject interests, languages spoken, and a whole lot of other factors to narrow down the list.

    The second thing about Ivy League schools that Mr Wang fails to understand: They aren't even close to the only fantastic universities in the country. Depending on what field he's interested in, he might do really well at John Hopkins, Berkeley, University of Chicago, MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, Harvey-Mudd, Swarthmore, or quite a few other schools that not only have great teaching but also strong brand recognition, particularly in the fields they excel at.

    My high school class valedictorian was absolutely certain she was going to get into Harvard - she had all the academics, was a good violinist in the school and local community orchestra, had a couple of extracurricular leadership officerships under her belt, and had recently received a special award for her achievements. She was turned down, went to Tufts University instead, and did quite fine for herself there.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday June 03 2015, @10:35PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2015, @10:35PM (#191808) Journal
      Thanks for the insight.
      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford