SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
MakerBot's 3-D printers will soon be able to produce items that look like bronze, limestone, and wood, thanks to a new line of plastic-based composite materials shipping later this year. But the launch may be too little, too late: Entrepreneurs and artists interested in working with metal and wood are already embracing desktop milling machines that can handle the real deal.
The calculation is simple: Buy a MakerBot Replicator, the leading desktop 3-D printer, for $2,889, and you can produce plastic prototypes or the kind of trinkets that you might find in a Happy Meal. Buy a small-scale milling machine like the Othermill, which retails for $2,199, and you can make jewelry and mechanical parts out of everything from aluminum to walnut.
"Once you can cut metal, you can make things that last," says Danielle Applestone, chief executive of Other Machine Co. "For the first couple of months that I was working here, I was scared of cutting with metal. It was louder, I was worried I was going to break the tool. But as soon as I jumped in, it quickly became like wax to me."
"Metal is power, it really is," she says. "You don't go back."
It should be noted that MakerBot's base model also went from $400 to almost $3K when Stratasys acquired them.
Original Submission
(Score: 4, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday June 11 2015, @03:22AM
back in the day, if you didn't own your own lathe and milling machine, you were shit out of luck if your tractor broke down.
To my dismay, "Amateur Telescope Making" edited by Albert Ingalls is full of great ideas on telescope mountings the vast majority of which require at least a lathe, sometimes also a milling machine. I've ground some good mirrors but have never been happy with any of my mounts.
I learned how to use both in the Caltech Student Shop; I was made a Shop Foreman so I would stop bugging the other foremen for the key to the cabinet that had all the expensive or delicate tools.
To use a lathe and a milling machine is a true joy. There is just no substitute.
I went on to make a coal-fired metal casting furnace; I still have my crucibles.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2015, @04:16AM
After the twentieth "I have done everything and was special while I was doing it" story, I am inclined to no longer believe them.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday June 11 2015, @05:10AM
Where I come from, if you have a 4.0 grade point average you go to Stanford, or maybe their Air Force Academy.
But if you totally blow off you studies so you can make telescopes instead of doing your homework, you attend Caltech. My GPA in high school was 3.6 and I failed three quarters of eighth grade English.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday June 11 2015, @06:28AM
I get the idea David is another older guy who loves to tinker too. Over time, one does have a tendency to get into damned near everything.
Experiences integrate over time. Given a lot of time, one can get a lot of experience - especially if one is not addicted to sports or social stuff.
I like to read David's accounts and find them quite interesting. I think he's seen a lot of stuff, and took a good whack at a lot of it.
I get the idea David is a lot like my grandpa. I wrote some more stuff about my grandpa later down these comments, again as a reply to one of David's posts.
A lot of what is in me came from grandpa. I only wish I had more of him in me. Every visit to Grandpa for me was better than a trip to Disneyland. Grandpa had made more things than I could shake the proverbial stick at. He would show them to me, start them up, and show me how they worked. Then I had another older guy at Chevron take me under his wing and do the same.
Dave strikes me as the kind of guy who really gets into his work and enjoys it, and it seems to be what both of us live for. These forums are one of the few places we can talk about such things and have anyone even begin to comprehend what we are trying to describe. There was a time this kind of enthusiasm for doing things was welcome in the workplace, but as things became more "lean and mean", work became not nearly as enjoyable as it used to be, and it became like having professional artists paint a house, or having master craftsmen mixing concrete.
Trying to mentor younger people in the manner I was mentored seems to be seen as bullshit. Who gives a hoot if the younger guy is curious as to how refrigeration works? I feel I have been replaced by Google, and I really have no business trying to mentor younger people as I was mentored. If some young kid is interested in refrigeration, let him go look it up - does he really need some old coot showing him all the components of a running system, asking him to feel all the lines, commenting on what's going to happen if this part or that part goes bad, and showing him how the system corrects itself when perturbed?
I relate that because I was a young kid once, long ago, and I was curious how the absorption system kept the LNG tanks cold at the oil refinery, and the senior engineer took me out and explained the whole shebang to me. Yet I find myself in a position today where all I can seem to do is pontificate on SN....
I feel a kindred spirit in David.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by lentilla on Thursday June 11 2015, @08:25AM
I feel I have been replaced by Google, and I really have no business trying to mentor younger people as I was mentored.
Go on, you try to stop yourself sharing your enthusiasm with a kindred spirit! You'll fail.
We will always have to show younger people what is possible. Google may be the world's greatest encyclopaedia but without the spark of enthusiasm and the encouragement of possibilities, nothing of real value will be conceived or executed.
It's always been this way. We share our enthusiasm about "our" topic with other people - most will smile and say "nicely done" but there is always one-in-an-hundred that will go "wow... now show me that again... but slowly." and follow up with "now, how did you get that to happen?" Doesn't matter if the topic is cooking, animal husbandry, electronics, or any topic worthy of study - mentors and students will always have a way of finding each other - it may as well be a law of nature.
Just remember that you won't win everybody or even most. The only people that are important is your joy in sharing and that occasional individual that badly wants your knowledge. Don't ever give up - you don't want to miss that single opportunity. You mightn't even know that you have touched someone in a way that pays dividends to many future generations.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2015, @09:27AM
That's what your mom said.
When grandma made that wish, she didn't walk right for a week.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2015, @08:43AM
Yet more bad moderating on soylent. Say something someone with mod points doesn't like and it is censored by being modded down until it takes extra work just to see it, no matter the content or intent.
Honestly, if anyone anywhere has a story about ever topic that comes up and has claims of how interesting their insight was in every single area then the sane ones among us would call out their bullshit. This was even done in a polite, subjective manner and yet modded as flamebait. If it really is flamebait, then where are the flames?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday June 11 2015, @04:29AM
You ain't kidding. My grandpa had a barn full of it. Especially welding stuff. he had a gas and diesel-electric setup.
Gramps would hit a big rock with his plow in the field, come back, haul the welding stuff out to the tractor, sputter around for a while, then back to work. Or sometimes something would not fit. Gramps had ways of making anything fit - whether it was designed to or not.
He could build anything .... out of scrap.
To the untrained eye, a lot of it looked like a metal scrapyard... but to gramps, it was the odds and ends needed to guarantee the crop got in. Looking back, I find it amazing how many tons of food he produced with that old tractor.
I was always intrigued how many old car engines he had running other things. This was quite some time ago, but he had one diesel engine in the barn that would power his welder and lathe... and it would also heat a big tub of water in the process.
He told me in his younger days, that was his pride and joy, as it guaranteed him a nice hot bath every night.
Even though I feel I know a lot about Engineering, gramps knew a helluva lot more. He did not just talk about it - he made it work. Mechanical, electrical, geological, hydraulics, chemistry, biology, you name it, gramps was doing it. Not many people out there like gramps anymore.
The gramps I knew has been gone for 40 years, but my memories of him are still very much alive.
Gramps was a farmer.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Kell on Thursday June 11 2015, @04:35AM
We need more good, practical people like that in engineering. We need to create more opportunities for people to become those good practical people.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday June 11 2015, @05:21AM
... when my father was a EE graduate student, was a large machine shop when he was an undergrad from 1958-62. Not just one lathe and milling machine but a whole bunch of each as all the engineering students were required to learn how to use them.
I have a special hatred for the term "Maker" on the other hand I see it as a hopeful sign that someday we will get back to where everyone, or at least some people have some manner of self-reliance.
Suppose you gave your curious child an iPhone, a soldering iron and an oscilloscope. Are they going to figure out how to build their own computer by soldering transistors together? While I never actually did so, when I was a kid we didn't have the cash to buy me a computer, so I figured the only way I could ever own one would be for me to build it myself, out of transistors, so I learned all about flip-flops, logic and so on.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday June 11 2015, @07:36AM
Dave, your dad was in the fray right at the peak of being able to tinker with the lowest level of electronics. Assembly code so to speak.
In that day, everything was made with vacuum tubes and discrete parts - which could be disassembled and reassembled into something completely different. Everything out there was kinda like a pre-assembled "erector set" ( if you remember those old toys ). One could disassemble a couple of TV sets and get enough parts to build a guitar amp, record player amp, test equipment, whatever. Parts were parts. Everything had the same parts in them.
Transistors were just coming out. And even then, one could build lots of stuff with anything that acted like a transistor.
We now live in a world of custom designed ASIC's and the like. Like a water pump for a 1948 Ford, its designed for that and just that.
I open up a modern piece of stuff, and there is nothing in there for me to disassemble! Its a black blob with 100 leads going to it. I will destroy it by trying to remove it. I have no spec sheet for it either. Gone are the days I find a dozen vacuum tubes whose specs were published in tube manuals. Gone are the days of those simple transformer driven power supplies.
I took a phone apart and got all sorts of little things out of it. Old Western Electric 500 series phone. But there was little in it I could do anything with, other than try to get the ringer to work or get the talk circuit to run on a lantern battery. I think I am pretty good in salvaging stuff, but I cannot find a thing in a modern cellphone I can disassemble and reassemble into anything else. The thing is absolutely useless. I hate like the dickens to throw my old stuff away, because it was made with discrete parts and I keep thinking there has got to be some kid that wants to take it apart just to put it back together another way... think old Tektronix 545 oscilloscope.
I find old computers thrown out. Almost nothing to take apart. Maybe get a disk drive, CDRom, power supply, CPU, or memory. And they only fit other devices. The most interesting thing I found was disassembling the old monitors. They were usually chock full of transistors, resistors, diodes, capacitors, and assorted magnetics that could be rewired into any number of toys. What IC's they used were often documented. Same with PC Power supplies. Good for a SMPS controller chip, a pair of high voltage transistors, and some assorted resistors, capacitors, and magnetics. The modern flat screen monitors have little in them to work with. Maybe the LCD inverter.
I feel for these kids today. They do not get the "pleasure" of taking something apart and seeing exactly what made it work. I still remember smashing vacuum tubes because I was so curious as to what was in them. Ok.. nothing but wire. But I just had to see for myself. Same went for every part in a lot of electronic stuff I got into as a kid. And I mean "got into". Literally. As in: "I used a hammer to open it up". There was something to see in that old stuff. What was in a transformer. What was in an IF can. What was in a resistor. What was in a capacitor. Nothing was sacred. I was curious. It was junk. And it was *really* junk when I got through with it. I spent many afternoons as a kid disassembling stuff. It was quite some time before I actually reassembled something that worked. I still remember the thrill I got just getting the heater circuit of a vacuum tube connected to a lantern battery and watching the tube 'light up'. It would be two more years before I had learned enough to build an operable code practice oscillator.
I could not build anything from a bunch of defunct MP3 players or phones.
In college, they may teach theory, but it takes years of actually working with stuff to get a good feel for the art of making it work. Like building an operable air conditioner. The books may teach the exact thermodynamic equations that govern its operation, however in practice what good did that do if you did not get the lubrication system proper, all of your oil collected in the accumulator, and your compressor ground itself to death?
I believe a good trade school would be a better investment of a kid's time these days, as from what I see - few people can actually make things work. And our business elite still seem to value management skills of getting the least expensive labor more than they value the future availability of skilled labor. The way things are going, I believe businesses are going to have to foot the bill for tuition if they want a trained work force, and they will have to retain skilled tradesmen if they do not want to go through the procedure of training another one.
Right now, it seems there is a huge surplus of very highly trained craftsmen available, but trained in yesterday's technology.
(Score: 2) by lentilla on Thursday June 11 2015, @08:11AM
Don't be too sad - every generation has its own mysteries and its own set of wonder. The new generation will find things to make - it's just a different set of things.
Perhaps the next generation won't be so good at scrounging a few parts, hammering them together, and getting something to work again. What they are likely to be better at is the next level above that - ascertaining what and where to source modules that build much more complicated machines. People that are conditioned to working with "parts" aren't always so good at remembering that the new generation of higher-order modules can be cobbled together in a similar fashion to the way that older folk constructed something out of discrete components. It's just progress at work.
There are still parts to be found in thrown away printers, scanners and DVD drives, so don't write the eulogy on that era yet. (Lots of servos and photo-interrupters, for example.) The flip side is that we can buy what amounts to "magic" for small amounts of money. As an example, one can buy sub-degree resolution (and accuracy) digital thermometers for a couple of bucks. Our forefathers would be so jealous.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday June 11 2015, @09:01AM
Point taken...
The printers, scanners, and disk drives have many interesting parts in them. Printers and scanners have motor drivers, optical position detectors, and interesting mechanical assemblies, shafts, and gears. Floppy disk drives have steppers, and HDD's have neodymium magnets in the head positioner, as well as interesting bearing assemblies.
I was just talking to some of my colleagues today over how impressed I am over what some would call the lowly Arduino.
I can build damned near anything with it. Very inexpensively. I was lamenting on whether or not to keep a drawer full of old 6502 parts and associated IC's. I could not justify keeping them, as I had nothing to support by keeping them, and there is no way I would ever design another 6502 based system when I have all these neat ATMEL 328's.
For me, those ATMEL 328's are an ideal example of the "magic" you referred to. Along with all the I2C support chips now available. Unbelievable precision. For a song.
I still can't get over just how inexpensive it is to build these things, and if I have a lot of really persnickety stuff ( like stepper motors or DMX lighting protocols ) to run, I can offload that to yet another simple eight-core Propeller chip (Parallax 8X32). For a fraction of the price I paid for just the memory board for my IMSAI 8080.
Cost is definitely no longer the limiting factor it once was. Now the problem is mostly bootstrapping one's knowledge up high enough to catch on and use these things.
However, let me say too that there will be some startup costs that cost every bit as much as my IMSAI cost me... like getting a good microscope and soldering tools to assemble tiny SMT circuit boards, getting books of SMT part assortments from China, as well as learning how to use EAGLE so you can get PCB's made. There is a lot more front-end training these days required before you can actually produce a unique thing of your own design. Its no longer an evening with a soldering iron, a breadboard, and a box of leaded parts.
The tools are more powerful than anything I have ever had before - and mostly free. Arduino compiler - free. EAGLE - free ( at least the training version that restricts you to small circuit boards - good enough for this kind of stuff ). Propeller compiler - free. Linear Technology even provides a free SPICE simulator. My main development computer is an off-the-shelf WalMart laptop that was less expensive than an Iphone.
Its things like this which make me believe a mentor that can bootstrap a kid is more important than ever, yet I see little effort being made to help the next generation get through that initial barrier of learning the tools.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2015, @08:13AM
you have to do things at a higher/different level:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/chinas-mass-production-system/370898/ [theatlantic.com]
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 [bunniestudios.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2015, @07:09PM
I needed a laser pointer at about 50mW - to measure the diff in altitude between two points at about 800m distance - the max allowed for selling in Australia is 5mW (for a handheld pointer). A scavenged red laser diode from an old DVD burner with a constant current driver, in a cheap chinese mount with a plastic lens have done the trick - I put everything in a box that's obvious is not to be held by hand, just not to risk running afoul with firearm and weapons legislation.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday June 11 2015, @05:24AM
... fire and water.
We were all naked once, puzzling with furrowed brow over some stones as we wondered how we might slay a beast for supper.
Today, LSD is legal in Switzerland, but only by prescription, and the company that acquired Sandoz still makes it.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by Kharnynb on Thursday June 11 2015, @05:32AM
They are still out there, but mostly in what we call "third-world" countries.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday June 11 2015, @06:45PM
When i was a kid and we went over to some friends of my parents for dinner one time, we went into the basement and I was astounded by what I saw. If was finished, just like upstairs! With carpet! There were no machine tools anywhere, or tools of any kind for that matter! My first thought was "How do you fix things when they break?" Just earlier that day my dad and I had made a replacement part for the lawnmower.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek