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"At some point as a country, we have to reckon with what happens. It's not enough to express sympathy. You don't see this kind of murder, on this scale, with this kind of frequency in other advanced countries on earth." - President Obama.
Discuss.
- A Hectic Day at Church, and Then a Hellish Visitor
- Charleston relatives 'forgive' shooting suspect in court
- Latest on church shooting: Black, white pastors get together
- Terrorism v hate crime: How US courts decide: After the murder of nine black Americans at a church in Charleston, South Carolina by a white man, advocates and commentators are calling for suspect Dylann Roof to be described as a terrorist.
- Why we shouldn't call Dylann Roof a terrorist
- We Asked a Lawyer if Dylann Roof Could Face Terrorism Charges
- As Media Labels Roof 'Troubled Loner,' Justice Department Moves Forward With Domestic Terrorism Charges
- Was the South Carolina shooting a hate crime or a terrorist attack?
- Terrorism in Charleston demands the government act like black lives matter
- Criminal Justice Professor Discusses Charleston Shooting Suspect Dylann Roof
- Dylann Roof's friend: 'He never said anything racist': Christon Scriven, 21, told the BBC's Rajini Vaidyanathan that Mr Roof "wanted to shoot that school up - UCA university of Charleston - it's 3 miles up the street from that church."
- Mitt Romney Calls on South Carolina to Remove Confederate Flag at Capitol
- Dylann Storm Roof Photos Found on Website [manifesto archive]
- Here's What Appears to Be Dylann Roof's Racist Manifesto
- Photos Of Dylann Roof, Racist Manifesto Surface On Website
- BBC: The collection of photographs found on a website also show 21-year-old Dylann Roof burning the US flag and visiting a former slave plantation.
- Possible manifesto of Dylann Roof draws from hate group's text, expert says
- Police: Charleston church shooting suspect Dylann Roof is on suicide watch
- Charleston Church Shooter Dylann Roof Was Loner Caught in 'Internet Evil': Family
- The Mainstream Media Is Showing Its Bias In Charleston Massacre. And It's Ugly.
- Rick Perry: Charleston massacre was an 'accident' caused by drugs — not guns
- Suboxone: What is the drug linked to Charleston shooting suspect?
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Wow! Look!! A stray meatball!! Let's interview it!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2015, @08:29AM
US has about 89 guns per 100 people; Switzerland 46 per 100. The US gun homicide rate is actually pretty low and has been decreasing since the beginning of the 90's -- it's a safe country, unless you live in the ghetto and get caught in a gang fight [washingtonpost.com]. There aren't actually all that many of those even, though.
There are, however, a lot of reporters and 24-hour news channels. Any incident will get plastered on the media and covered constantly, which gives the impression that America is going to hell in a handbasket. Less than one percent of homicides (gun-related or not) involved three or more victims [pewsocialtrends.org], so the rampage-shooting thing is really, really rare. You have a 1:325 chance of dying by gun-related homicide, but a 1:246 chance of dying by falling down, 1:121 of dying by suicide, 1:100 of dying in an auto accident, and 1:7 of dying by cancer. But, cancer and falling down don't make for good news stories.
If you really want to save American lives, doing something about guns isn't the answer. Working to prevent heart disease and cure cancer is. If black lives really matter to you, and if statistics also actually matter to you, then fight against heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes [cdc.gov]: those are the real killers out there, the ones that actually are going to get you one day, most likely. The fact that black people are at an elevated risk of illness is a real disparity in America. Your chance of dying in a white-supremacist's shooting rampage is, on the other hand, infinitesimally small.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday June 21 2015, @11:24AM
I couldn't agree more. I believe that you intended that to be a generic 'you' and not addressed at me personally. I am not an American and do not feel qualified to tell others how they should sort out their country.
So you would expect that the number of shootings per capita in Switzerland would be about half that found in America. But it is one tenth. There is something else other than just the availability of weapons. So, ignoring taking weapons away from people, there is still something that can be done to improve the situation.
I am not knowledgeable about US geography, and I didn't realise that the latest incident took place in a ghetto. The only pictures I have seen of it have been on TV, and the area doesn't look too deprived in those images. I accept your comments regarding the ease by which news can now be disseminated and the way that it can distort public perceptions.
(Score: 5, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday June 21 2015, @12:00PM
The USA, however, instead just has guns fuck yeah.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2015, @05:27PM
I am not knowledgeable about US geography, and I didn't realise that the latest incident took place in a ghetto.
There you go, confusing individual events with data. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/19/the-racial-divide-in-americas-gun-deaths/ [washingtonpost.com], which the GP linked, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide [wikipedia.org] which he/she didn't link. Homicide in the US is very much racially segregated: 93% of blacks killed are killed by blacks. The rate of death by firearm for blacks is twice that for whites. Taken together, that means that blacks are much more likely to murder each other with a firearm than whites are to murder each other, and that it's very unlikely that a white man will shoot a black man. In fact, a white man is five times more likely to commit suicide by gun, a black man five times more likely to be murdered with one, and by another black man at that.
The latest incident does not conform to that pattern. Not all data does: there are always outliers. The events in Charleston were highly abnormal. They were the work of an abnormal mind bent on doing something far out of line with the rest of society. Do not mistake that for the norm.
Here's the real problem: you can't effectively guard against highly abnormal events, the "black swans," to use the metaphor common in the financial world. You can, however, use data to predict where resources can be more effectively invested to prevent predictable tragedies. Given that the likelihood of developing diabetes or cancer or heart disease is far greater than that of dying by a homicide, resources need to be invested in those diseases rather than in the edge case of gun-related deaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2015, @07:21PM
Something your analysis does not take into account is the impact on the living.
People who die of diabetes and heart disease tend to be significantly older than the people who die by firearms. They have already contributed a significant amount to their communities. And when they die, the scars left on the living are much more shallow because although premature, the death is neither sudden nor intimidating for the bereaved.
Also, false dichotomy. Working to fix one problem doesn't preclude working to fix the other.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Monday June 22 2015, @02:37AM
I am not knowledgeable about US geography, and I didn't realise that the latest incident took place in a ghetto.
The shooter had nothing to do with the ghetto, it was a white person who came from many miles away and chose a church frequented almost entirely by African-Americans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2015, @09:11PM
Fallacy of relative privation. So what there are things that are worse? That doesn't mean guns aren't a problem that needs to be addressed too.