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The Union of Concerned Scientists has released a report entitled The Climate Deception Dossiers.
For nearly three decades, many of the world's largest fossil fuel companies have knowingly worked to deceive the public about the realities and risks of climate change.
Their deceptive tactics are now highlighted in this set of seven "deception dossiers"—collections of internal company and trade association documents that have either been leaked to the public, come to light through lawsuits, or been disclosed through Freedom of Information (FOIA) requests.
So now we have some idea of "What fossil fuel companies knew and when they knew it". Full report available here [pdf].
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Climategate: the Shoe is on the Other Foot
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I consider the day misspent that I am not either charged with a crime,
or arrested for one.
-- "Ratsy" Tourbillon
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 09 2015, @11:58PM
Same AC. This is totally wrong (pg 311):
It is unbelievable to me how confused people are about this. To get that 30C number you need to calculate a "no atmosphere" planet but still subtract albedo that is caused by the atmosphere. This makes no sense.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by dry on Friday July 10 2015, @02:05AM
Good point. One thing we can do is pick another celestial body that is the same mean distance from the Sun, has no atmosphere, and has an albedo of 0.136 (about the same as coal) so probably even darker then the Earth which has ice caps. Hmm seems the median temperature at the equator is 220 K and at the pole (actually 85 degrees), 130 K. So the actual greenhouse affect seems closer to 70 K rather then 30 K, so another case of those climate scientists low balling.
(Moon data taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon [wikipedia.org] )
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10 2015, @08:29AM
Interesting idea, so how would you calculate that?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10 2015, @10:48AM
There are more differences between the earth and the moon than just atmosphere.
A few that spring immediately to mind: The earth is bigger, has a greater gravitational pull and so larger parts are under a higher pressure than is found on the moon. Pressure has a direct effect on temperature, in general higher pressure means higher temperature. Second is material, the earth has large bodies of liquid water not found on the moon. Water is vary good at storing heat and it makes sense that this would also effect temperature. Thirdly the moon has a large object shielding it from the sun periodically while the earth doesn't, I expect that would also make a difference.
Frankly making a straight comparison of the two as you've done is both useless and misleading.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10 2015, @02:38PM
You have to relearn your thermodynamics. While increasing pressure increases temperature (because you're putting work, that is energy, into the system), the equilibrium temperature does not depend on pressure. Except indirectly, as any greenhouse gases are denser when pressure is higher, of course. But then, the whole point of the exercise is to determine the temperature without greenhouse gases.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10 2015, @04:46PM
Too many ACs in this thread... I am this one (original): https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=8343&cid=207195#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
How would you calculate the average temperature of the moon given distance from the sun?
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 14 2015, @03:22AM
We can directly measure it with infrared cameras/telescopes/probes. Traditionally measuring temperature can be done by measuring the solar flux hitting a body combined with the characteristics of the body. Google black body temperature.
ps, you'd be much more likely to get a response if you logged in as it seems like a waste of time replying to ACs and never know if it is one and the same AC or a series of them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2015, @10:40AM
You realise the the Earth doesn't actually shield the Moon from the Sun all that often, it only happens when there is a Lunar eclipse. I should think it would only have an effect during the eclipse and shortly after.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 12 2015, @09:23AM
So you don't know how to calculate the temp of the moon?