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You may have heard about Tesla's "insane mode," which accelerates a sedan from 0 to 60 mph in a mindboggling 3.2 seconds. But Tesla is already moving ahead with something even better: A "ludicrous mode" that sends you from 0 to 60 in 2.8 seconds.
Shaving off half a second may not sound like much. But the $10,000 option on the Model S shows off some of the advances in battery technology that Tesla is building into its newer cars. Under ludicrous speed, said Musk, the car will accelerate at 1.1 times the force of gravity.
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The Model S is also getting a battery capacity upgrade from 85 kilowatt-hours to 90 kWh, an increase of around 6 percent that will cost existing owners about $3,000 if they choose to upgrade. Not everyone should be upgrading every year, though, as Tesla expects to add around 5 percent capacity to its batteries every year on average. That translates to a roughly 5 percent annual increase in range. Musk said he expects most customers to upgrade batteries once every three to four years.
Not too much longer before "range anxiety" becomes an ICE problem.
Original Submission
(Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday July 18 2015, @05:40PM
will be the only thing left to worry about once it gets to a reasonable 400-500 mile range in about 20-30 years at the current rate of improvement...
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Saturday July 18 2015, @05:58PM
From 265 miles at a 5% improvement per annum, it's only 9 years to 400 miles range and 13 years to 500 miles.
But in any case, those ranges are entirely unnecessary, as virtually no one ever drives a car that kind of distance a single stop. Even at a constant 70mph, that'd be 6 or 7 hours driving.
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(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Saturday July 18 2015, @09:05PM
Never driven to a far away place on vacation? We do it every year. It is too expensive to fly a family of five. Even on an airline like Southwest if you get $75 each way flights, that turns out to be $750.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 3, Insightful) by BasilBrush on Sunday July 19 2015, @12:06AM
Of course I have. And we stop half way for a pee and a meal. Why on earth would you suffer 7 hours of sitting in a car without a break when you are on vacation. It makes no sense.
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by urza9814 on Monday July 20 2015, @02:41PM
Stopping for a meal still may not be enough time to fully charge the battery...plus then you're stuck eating at the charging station. Needs some infrastructure build-out first.
As for why spend so long in the car on vacation -- to get it over with and actually start the vacation! Who wants to spend the first whole day or two of vacation just driving? Let the kids pass out in the back seat and just drive until you get there...and hope you make it before they wake up ;)
(Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday July 18 2015, @09:35PM
So shot me my top of the head estimate was a little off. Though I do not do it all the time at least a few times a year I drive that. Until they get that kind of range and a lower price electric cars are out of my field of view. I will let the early adopting fools bring the price down to earth just like I do with computer equipment, I'm one cheap SOB. If you look up tightwad on the wackypedia you will see my smiling face staring back at ya. :)
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RedBear on Saturday July 18 2015, @11:20PM
No matter how you might try to resist it, you and nearly everyone you know will own some form of electric vehicle within 10-15 years. I guarantee it.
It will either be fully electric, or a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle (which takes H2 and makes electricity and has a battery pack, so it's still an EV), or it will be a "strong" hybrid with a battery pack large enough to give you at least 100-150 miles of electric driving plus a small range extender engine to bring the range up to 300-400 miles. Like the Chevy Volt, but better. But most people will be driving BEVs, fully electric vehicles, and there will be quick charge stations almost everywhere. The minimum base range available in 10-15 years in even low-end affordable BEVs will most likely be 250 miles. We will already have at least three 200-mile vehicles on the market by 2018. Teslas and other higher-end BEVs will most likely have ranges of 350-400 miles in 10-15 years.
Within 15-25 years it will start to become extremely difficult to obtain a fossil-fuel passenger vehicle that is not at least some sort of strong hybrid that will allow you to do at least 95% of your driving on batteries. Why, because the commie liberals are going to take away our gas-guzzlers? No, because most of the market will simply no longer be interested in buying them, so all automakers will have shifted to making nothing but electrics and hybrids by that point.
Some of this may seem a bit fanciful but I am confident that this is exactly what will happen, based on what has been happening during the last 15 years. The electric vehicle market is poised to go absolutely bonkers within the next five years. And once people go electric they have a strong tendency to never want to buy another fossil-fuel vehicle for as long as they live. Quite a few car companies are going to have a lot of catching up to do once the tidal wave finally hits.
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 2) by RedGreen on Sunday July 19 2015, @01:10AM
I do not drive gas guzzlers even ~40 years ago when I first got my license I was into fuel efficient smaller cars as I said I am cheap SOB always have been I believe in getting damn good value for my money. Electric cars will not be there (cheap to purchase and maintain) in my lifetime I am confident of that from the cost of the batteries, motors .. all that will if they as you say commie liberals get their way become increasing expensive as they drive up the cost of extraction and refining the materials needed by their war on carbon and cheap energy. I have never owned a new car hell I have never owned a car less than 10 years old for someone like me and there are lots of us your pipe dream of all electric is never going to happen. The used vehicles at that point will require massive layout of cash to replace the trashed batteries so I cannot see it happening like you say unless they are going to outlaw personal vehicle transport as people will never be able to afford to buy, maintain and run them.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:08AM
Actually if you network around a bit, it's possible. But the electric car may require some work. A friend of mine just by being interested and hanging around with a group of electric car builders, scored a 1980 Datsun 310 that had been converted to electric for $1.00 US. He had to get new batteries (golf cart batteries) for less than $500.00, and do some other stuff. But he wound up with a car that does 35 mph and has a range of ~30 miles. That is plenty for running errands around town.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 2) by gnuman on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:49AM
I am confident of that from the cost of the batteries, motors ..
The battery is the only expensive part of an electric car. Motors are much cheaper, more efficient and more powerful (never mind no maintenance) than any internal combustion engine. And that has been a fact for almost a century. Energy source for the motors is what the problem has been for the entire reign of the ICE vehicle.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Sunday July 19 2015, @01:24PM
EVs will start filtering through to the used car market soon enough. Heck they've been selling the Nissan Prius for 18 years now, so plenty of them have been sold second hand. Battery packs on those last to around 15 years, and cost around $1750 to replace with a reconditioned one. An ICE car of that age would be ready for scrap, but if you wanted to keep it going would be requiring transmission and/or engine replacement.
Pure EVs haven't been around quite so long, but for example the Nissan Leaf is 5 years old now, so will be starting to enter the used car market. As for cost, Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) has one, and it's already had a lower cost of ownership than an equivalent ICE car. Whilst it was more expensive to buy, most of the fuel has been free, as he mostly charges it from solar panels on his roof.
Despite your Fox News ideas about Commie Liberals, the price of batteries, and therefore the price of EVs is continually coming down and the range is going up.
EVs taking over from ICE vehicles is inevitable over the next 2-3 of decades. Whether that is within your lifetime, I wouldn't know.
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(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:34AM
I suspect the transition between gas cars and electric cars will be one you'll want to be on the early side of, so that your traded-in gas vehicle still has value.
As far as cost goes, even without the subsidies for the electric cars, they do save you a lot on gas and maintenance. How much you save depends on how efficient your gas car is and how old it is. You also might have to throw in inspection costs, depending on where you are; Japan, for instance, has shaken [wikipedia.org] that kills you for an older vehicle. So for an accurate comparison on how expensive owning a gas car is vs. owning an electric car, you want to take all that into account. Those calculations can vary so much for every driver in every local, but driving a Land Cruiser from where I am in Long Island to NYC 5x per week and paying local gas prices it's roughly $40,000 of gas over the next 10 years that I could discount the price of a new electric car by. That's still not enough for me to justify a Model S, but it might be for a Model 3. Time will tell.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:59AM
"Japan, for instance, has shaken"
Thank you Japan, for a steady supply of inexpensive, low mileage engines.
I have purchased six over the last fifteen years. I occasionally come across a really nice Japanese car with a blown motor. It's a very easy way to turn a few extra bucks to feed my speedshop addiction.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday July 18 2015, @10:36PM
From 265 miles at a 5% improvement per annum, it's only 9 years to 400 miles range and 13 years to 500 miles. But in any case, those ranges are entirely unnecessary, as virtually no one ever drives a car that kind of distance a single stop. Even at a constant 70mph, that'd be 6 or 7 hours driving.
I drive 420-430 miles per day a few times per year. It is not difficult at all. Truck drivers have even longer shifts in vehicles that are much harder to operate.
As matter of fact, those vacation trips are what kills the EV adoption due to range. Not everyone can afford to have several cars in the family, each for one purpose. It is not justified economically. An ICE car can move virtually non-stop, as the fueling time is short. An EV requires a charger and/or a lot of time.
There are quite a few other reasons why there are no lines to buy an EV. But the range is the oldest reason, as an EV cannot be a universal vehicle. The price is another. The charging availability is yet another - you have to be a homeowner to install a charger in your garage. Renters cannot do that so far. All these reasons combined result in the fact that a common man does not have a good reason to buy an EV. The market is limited to early adopters who have needs that perfectly match the capabilities of these cars.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Sunday July 19 2015, @12:15AM
I drive 420-430 miles per day a few times per year. It is not difficult at all.
I didn't say it was difficult, I said virtually no one does it without a stop. 6 or 7 hours without a toilet break, a meal or stretching the legs would be awful. 7 hours constantly staring at the road in front. 7 hours of your foot pressing a pedal. As I said virtually no one does it. If you truly do do it, then you're mad. Especially on vacation - its supposed to be fun, not torture.
You say truck drivers do it, but diners in America and transport cafs and services in the UK exist for a reason. Truckers eat and truckers need a piss just like everyone else does. They'll drive 9 hours in a day - but they will stop during that time.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday July 19 2015, @12:44AM
t say it was difficult, I said virtually no one does it without a stop. 6 or 7 hours without a toilet break, a meal or stretching the legs would be awful. 7 hours constantly staring at the road in front. 7 hours of your foot pressing a pedal. As I said virtually no one does it. If you truly do do it, then you're mad. Especially on vacation - its supposed to be fun, not torture.
I have some power bars with me, and hot coffee in the thermos in the cupholder. Sure, I stop exactly once to refuel, and there is a BK near one of the gas stations, which I sometimes patronize. But for some reason I do not find it difficult to drive for 8 hours, even when I leave at 6 am. I am not tired upon arrival, and I usually do much more at the hotel (or at home) before I go to bed. People are usually active for 16 hours out of 24.
Truck drivers do stop at various eateries, and they take their time there - but they often have a 12-hour work day. Sometimes it becomes a safety issue, as they are overworking themselves to the point that they cannot drive safely anymore.
(Score: 5, Informative) by kurenai.tsubasa on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:29AM
Speaking of driving big truck—cowboy driving is a thing of the past. “Them days are gone and done with,” they lament on the CB. There's a GPS unit in the tractor, and they can scan your logbook into the computer. If your truck is moving when you're on the off-duty or sleep lines, they haul you into logbook class. 11 hours of driving is the max (14 hours on-duty, including driving time and any time waiting to be unloaded at the dock). When I used to drive OTR, I developed this odd 22 hour circadian rhythm. (I'd probably still be doing that instead of IT except I suck at backing up in close quarters.)
Generally, there's breakfast and then dinner, perhaps a snack between. I don't remember all the logbook rules exactly, but iirc the 14 hour timer starts once you do the pre-trip inspection (mandatory 15 minutes on the on-duty line before moving to the driving line)*. So, if you're going to go off-duty for an hour or so for lunch, you might eat into hours that you could be driving, especially on dedicated routes with multiple stops per shift. (You can count on at least one of those stops eating up an hour of on-duty time because the store you're delivering to isn't prepared.) An alternative is “split logging” which has some funky rules that give you more flexibility, but ultimately you're up against the 70 hour rule. No more than 70 hours in a week, and then you take your 34 hour “sabbatical” (off-duty line iirc), which resets all the counters.
As for safety, truck drivers are required to do an in-trip inspection every 3 hours or 150 miles. I still follow that guideline when I'm on roadtrips. It works out pretty well. Pull into a truck stop or rest area, and walk around for a few minutes. It helps break up the monotony.
If you catch yourself nodding off, pull down the first exit, park somewhere, and set a 15-20 minute alarm. The 15-20 minute power nap is long enough to restore some vitality, but not so long that deeper sleep sets in. It's a bit of a band-aid measure, but it works if you only need to go a couple more hours. Remember, fatigued driving is just as dangerous as drunk driving.
* Clarification: Logbooks have 4 horizontal lines in parallel that span the 24 hours in a day: sleep, off-duty, on-duty, and driving. Filling in the logbook involves drawing a continuous line that jumps among and moves along the 4 lines.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:36AM
if you catch yourself nodding off, pull down the first exit, park somewhere, and set a 15-20 minute alarm. The 15-20 minute power nap is long enough to restore some vitality, but not so long that deeper sleep sets in.
I actually did that once - on a relatively short trip (2 hours each way) simply because I was physically tired. Worked very well. Indeed, road trips should be a pleasant occurrence, and not a dangerous torture.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:57AM
Thanks, that's interesting. Is that a motivation for the sleeper cabs, to manage the schedule better, or is that purely to save on hotels?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:38AM
I would assume hotel cost. Mostly once the 11 hours driving time are up, it's straight to the sleep line, so schedule might be a very small factor. The sleeper area adds about 7' or so (there's a small area for a minifridge and cabinet in front of the bed) and I imagine the fuel costs to support that are way less than a stay at a hotel. Of course, that means that daycabs (no sleeper) can get around in yards and inner-city docks easier than a sleeper.
I always marvel at those huge condo trucks with an extended sleeper that seem to be popular with moving companies (Allied, etc). I suppose once the yard/dock concern is removed, might as well go for luxury. When you're out 3 weeks at a time, the truck becomes your home.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kurenai.tsubasa on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:41AM
Er, the overriding factor is probably simply parking. Go to any truck stop outside a big city, and there will be a huge lot filled with trucks. Most hotels probably wouldn't care to support that.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:08AM
Truck driver here!
You are correct.
It is simply parking. The other point of a sleeper cab is two person operation, called team driving. As a trainer this is what I did. One up, one sleeps. You can go across the U.S. in about three days doing that. Single driver trucks face the parking nightmare every night. You either stop earlier, to be certain of finding parking, or drive all night as daytime parking is usually very easy. It all depends of course, on your pickup and delivery requirements, along with weather and mechanical issues.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:20PM
Ah, yes. Impossible to find parking at night. I used to do night driving whenever possible. Park around 10 am or so and there are pull-through spaces available!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @07:33PM
Think they changed the rules recently to make night harder. Something about must have a sleep during particular parts of the night. I bet this is making parking even worse.
I used to write 'that damned' software that tracked drivers. You move the truck, up to the D line for you and let me mark where your are at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hours_of_service#History [wikipedia.org]
I had the 'pleasure' of making a computer doing the 2003 set of rules. The earlier rules fit in a small paragraph of code. The 2003 rules took about 20 pages to work correctly. You could have up to 6 different 'out of hour clocks' going all at the same time depending if you split sleeper or not.
Just be glad you were not in canada. They have about 12 different countdown clocks. Daily limits as well as time limits and weekly limits. In addition to split and 'ferry' items.
I am glad I am out of that goop. The newest 2013 ones look nasty and similar in scope to the Canadian ones. My back of the envelope figures say there are about 14 countdown clocks until out of service. I could be wrong as I did not fully figure it out.
For the 1962-2003 set of rules it was possible to do 4x4 in a team and get across the country and never have to really stop. One of the reasons they tweaked the rules.
Its funny did you know you dont legally have to fill in the lines and its actually optional? But most cops expect it and get pissy if you dont. So you fill it in anyway. The line items bellow the graph are the real log (time and location of start of activity). It was pretty sweet for some of the drivers I wrote software for 'where are your logs' points at box 'in there' 'move along'. The cops didnt want to fuck with it. :) Doubt that is the case anymore.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Sunday July 19 2015, @01:33PM
Well I don't know what it's like in the states, but in Europe as well as a maximum working day for drivers, there are compulsory rest breaks at least every 4.5 hours.
Back to the topic: Really, the Tesla S range isn't an issue. When you've driven the full range, it's time you took a break anyway. And a supercharger will give a give a fair boost to the batteries whilst you do so.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:23PM
When you've driven the full range, it's time you took a break anyway.
A pause in driving is not the same as a pause in moving. There may be two adults in the car - say, a family. They can drive non-stop and still have enough rest. Very few people would like to spend 1-2 hours more on the road just for the pleasure of driving an EV - even if there are superchargers on the way. But plenty of rural highways don't even have gas stations on every corner. An EV would be a poor choice currently for driving in rural areas.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Sunday July 19 2015, @08:13PM
A pause in driving is not the same as a pause in moving. There may be two adults in the car - say, a family.
Sure, there MIGHT be. But you're just cutting down the number of people affected, and the number of time affected even more, considering that most cars are driven by one person most of the time.
Very few people would like to spend 1-2 hours more on the road
Supercharger rates are 280-300miles added per hour. There is no second hour. Most people in most cases only supercharge for about 30 mins as the battery is unlikely to be empty, and there's probably no need to charge to the very top.
An EV would be a poor choice currently for driving in rural areas.
That is true for now. You can go cross country but for now you have to choose your routes - or rather let the car tell you what the good routes are. But the gaps won't take that long to fill at the rate they are expanding.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:15AM
I did it a lot when I younger than 35. Now even though I'm in excellent shape (for my age), I like to get out and stretch my legs every couple of hours. Plus I'm in less of a hurry to get anywhere.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:19AM
Yes, and sitting for too many hours at a time is very unhealthy. It can lead to blood clots in the legs, spinal compression leading to pinched nerves, (this is why I no longer drive semi trucks or lorries as I believe they are known elsewhere) along with Neuropathy and a whole host of other problems. Keep taking those breaks!
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 1) by xorsyst on Wednesday July 22 2015, @11:55AM
[quote]The charging availability is yet another - you have to be a homeowner to install a charger in your garage. Renters cannot do that so far.[/quote]
You have to have a garage ... or at least a drive. Much housing stock in UK cities is Victorian and has only on-street parking for a single car if you're lucky - and it's the city dwellers who'd benefit from an EV.
If we had a [b]second[/b] car it would be an EV (Zoe or Leaf, probably), but we've no need for it and critically nowhere to park it at home.
So, we need an ICE for the occasional longer trips. And even with charging infrastructure, we wouldn't want to be forced to stop at a services for lunch (urg!) on the way to vacation, we always find a nice village pub instead - and I don't see them having fast charging points any time soon.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday July 20 2015, @02:35PM
Two years ago I was doing that every other weekend. Get out of work at 4-5pm, drive until midnight or 1am. Never stopped for longer than 10 minutes...because when you're not gonna be getting there until 1am, you don't really want to delay any longer!
And that's kind of an issue. If I buy a new car, I expect it to last close to a decade. I have no idea what my life is going to look like in a couple years, and a rental car isn't always gonna work.
When I was growing up we used to do that for family vacations too. Pittsburgh PA to Emerald Isle NC. Sometimes we'd stop for dinner, but mostly it was fast food. Did some similar vacation trips with my highschool girlfriend and her family too...
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Tuesday July 21 2015, @10:23AM
As I said, virtually no one. That pattern of driving is not normal. It's also very unsafe.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!