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From Yahoo News:
A man was gravely wounded in a gun battle with police in Ferguson, Missouri on Sunday night after a day of peaceful rallies to mark the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white officer one year ago. Several volleys of gunshots rang out as police in riot gear tried to disperse demonstrators blocking traffic and smashing storefront windows along a street that was a flashpoint of last year's unrest in the St. Louis suburb after Michael Brown, 18, was slain. Police later said the gunfire began with two groups of agitators apparently shooting at each other.
http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-protests-mostly-peaceful-anniversary-brown-shooting-015555407.html
...
Anniversary commemorations had begun hours earlier with a peaceful march through the St. Louis suburb. The scene changed dramatically after dark. Dozens of protesters converged on West Florissant Avenue, which bore the brunt of last summer's rioting, and chanted: "Shut it down" in the midst of a severe thunderstorm.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday August 10 2015, @04:50PM
Hmm "most" vs "Dozens of protesters". Always gonna have a microscopic percentage of the population looking to get a new pair of shoes by any means. Things get exciting when you get thousands in the streets. I've noticed thousands in the streets isn't any more violent than the dozens of bad apples mentioned, in fact usually a little less overall violent.
I have noticed a desensitization. Now the news reports the cops shot another unarmed black kid and most people are like "shrug shoulders" "what again" "happens every weekend" whereas a year ago at least it got people talking. General desensitization to violence, specifically police who murder. Business as usual, of course that happened that's what cops always do and have always done and will always do. Now that, long term, is likely to be a bigger overall systemic problem than a couple stolen tennis shoes one night.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @05:32PM
Nationwide, US police shot and killed more than 700 unarmed individuals, since the year began.
There are at least 30 cases where extreme unwarranted gun violence was used by police, without cause or provocation.
The US police killings by gunfire in August to date, outnumber the whole REST OF THE WORLD for the entire year of 2015.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Francis on Monday August 10 2015, @05:54PM
I always think it's interesting how people say that the killings were done without cause or provocation. Especially because it's common for the public to have little idea of what cause and provocation is in cases like this. Possessing a knife within 20 feet is cause for police to be concerned, if you're waving the thing about or generally unstable and refuse to drop it, that's plenty of both cause and provocation to be shot. Other weapons are perhaps a bit less clear, but the same basic principle applies.
Do the police and yourself a favor, just follow lawful orders and the likelihood of this happening goes down drastically. The cases I hear about consist almost entirely of people who failed to follow lawful orders of the police officer and were then shot. The less judgment you make the officer use the less likely that you'll wind up on the list of tragic mistakes.
And yes, sometimes the police are completely wrong in the killings, but that doesn't make the person any less dead afterwards.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @06:41PM
Your a troll.
Your assertion of "Just behave and comply" is demonstrably and documented to be UNTRUE. It is also the correct attitude for the subject of an East Germany-style police state, not a republic.
Read the sources I cite - not your bogus assumptions.
The killing of Tamir Rice? 12-year old boy in park, shot less than 5 seconds? FUCK YOU.
Christian Taylor, 19 - shot LAST WEEK by police while browsing auto dealer. 1.8 seconds out of car, to pulling trigger? FUCK YOU.
Christian was a volunteer for church and homeless outreach. Didn't have even even 2 seconds to follow your fascist compliance. DEAD.
Police shooting indiscriminately at crowds, with mothers walking their children by hand? FUCK YOU.
If you hold positions like those you cite, and refuse to even suspend pre-judgment to review advocacy and information?
Then the only difference between you and a Klansman is the sheet.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @06:48PM
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/00/00cf26fa3fc59bc151497dd3e15b45029035bbf7e18aa45db13b7e80d2148915.jpg [quickmeme.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @06:54PM
That's what they said in East Germany, too.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 1) by Francis on Monday August 10 2015, @07:19PM
We're not in East Germany or any other totalitarian state. You have the right to take things up in court if they've broken the law. But, if you're dead because you did something stupid or gave them an excuse to shoot you, then it doesn't much matter where you are. You're dead and there's nothing you can do about it.
Mistakes do happen, but there's no reason to inflame things even more just because you don't want to follow the rules.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @07:24PM
KEEP FOLLOWING ORDERS, CITIZEN!
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by LaminatorX on Monday August 10 2015, @08:18PM
The judicial game is rigged against justice for victims of police violence, doubly so for black ones. That has been shown time again to be a completely ineffective means of recourse. The laws are written such that a policeman just has to say, "I was afraid." and he walks. The Prosecutors have an enormous conflict of interest when it comes to prosecuting the very police who provide them with their cases, evidence, and testimony, so they all too often softpedal the cases or arrange instructions gamed to result in a No-True-Bill or an acquittal.
Thus has there been no justice, and thus is there no peace. Sadly, in both cases.
(Score: 1, Troll) by albert on Tuesday August 11 2015, @01:39AM
I agree. This means you should try really hard to avoid being a victim of police violence. Step one is to obey the law. This is the most important thing you can do to avoid having your ass kicked by the police.
In virtually every case that makes the news, this simple advice has not been heeded.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday August 10 2015, @08:41PM
We're not in East Germany or any other totalitarian state.
Completely irrelevant. The point was that laws are often unjust and sometimes even outright unconstitutional. You can still be convicted for unjust and/or unconstitutional laws if you don't mount a good enough defense, and even without being convicted, just being harassed by government thugs can destroy your life. Then there are plea deals, which are basically a way to scare innocent people into confessing to crimes they did not commit. There is no "justice system".
(Score: 0, Troll) by Francis on Monday August 10 2015, @07:16PM
They made the right call with Tamir Rice, he was holding an illegal toy gun that couldn't be readily distinguished from the real thing. He might also have lived if he had dropped it rather than motioning like he was going to point it at the officers. Rather than be outraged at the idiots that gave him that gun, you're outraged at the police who had a perfectly reasonable justification for shooting him. The reason why toy guns have to have that tip is specifically because of situations like this. That orange tip greatly reduces the likelihood of it being mistaken for a real firearm.
The difference between me and a Klansman is that I'm not racist. Even if I were a racist Klansman, that's an ad hominem to make up for the complete lack of substance in your post.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 10 2015, @08:23PM
Horse shit. Did you actually watch the video? The driver all but ran the kid over with the car. The shotgun rider fired his first shot within two seconds of the car stopping. Watch a few movies, find some scenes in which assassins plot to murder the target from their vehicle. Then tell me how to distinguish between these cop's actions and the assassins.
They heard "black male" and "gun" and decided that the black bastard had to die. There was no request to "drop the weapon". There was no request to see a concealed carry permit. No questions whatsoever - they saw their quarry, and opened fire.
In this case, black people have every right to be indignant. I am outraged. Guns are legal in this nation. Guns are legal in Ohio. Guns are legal in Cleveland. UNLESS of course, it's a black person who possesses the gun.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @11:13PM
Ohio is an open-carry state.
A loaded firearm in plain sight is not illegal there.
UNLESS of course, it's a black person who possesses the gun.
You and I are on opposite sides so often, I savor the instances when we agree.
-- gewg_
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday August 10 2015, @08:49PM
They made the right call with Tamir Rice, he was holding an illegal toy gun that couldn't be readily distinguished from the real thing.
If there is such a thing as an illegal toy gun, then that is simply insane. I could get a real gun if I wanted to. I don't care how real it looks.
Furthermore, no, they didn't do the right thing. They pulled up right next to someone who they believed possibly had a real gun, surprised him, and then shot him dead immediately, giving him no chance to surrender. They did this instead of doing something like pulling farther away, getting behind their cars (if they thought the gun was real), and ordering him to drop it. There are any number of ways this could have been handled besides shooting him dead immediately. The cops, which are supposed to be trained, screw up and put themselves in scenarios where they believe they need to shoot people. And that's being generous; they are often outright malicious, in addition to being utterly incompetent.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @09:23PM
The stupid kid was waving a toy gun around in public, acting like his future thug life. The cops probably saved several lives that day.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Francis on Monday August 10 2015, @09:52PM
It's not stupid, the law says that toy guns have to have that orange tip specifically because they had problems with toys being mistaken for real guns and people being shot.
They shot him because he had what appeared to be a gun and he was moving it in the direction of aiming at them. Now, we'll never know what it was that he was intending to do, probably hold it up so that the cops could see it, but this wasn't a case of racist cops, this was a case of somebody making some incredibly poor decisions. I wouldn't go around with a prop gun and then get upset when people assume that it's a real one, but that's just me.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday August 11 2015, @12:47AM
It's not stupid
Banning something entirely simply because it could be abused or mistaken for something else for reasons of physical safety is pure cowardice. Not that I expect anything else from you.
They shot him because he had what appeared to be a gun and he was moving it in the direction of aiming at them.
Nice job ignoring most of my comment. Specifically, the entire last paragraph (out of a very short post) where I explained that the whole situation could have been avoided if they hadn't been completely incompetent. You believe someone has a gun? Pull up right next to them with your car, surprise them, and then act completely baffled when the situation turns bad due to your own actions. Do you honestly believe that was the correct course of action?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @09:25PM
> The difference between me and a Klansman is that I'm not racist.
You know that no racist ever thinks they are a racist, right? They always have some sort of specious reasoning to justify their beliefs, beliefs that just happen to line up with race.
(Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday August 10 2015, @10:49PM
Have you stopped beating your wife?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday August 10 2015, @10:42PM
Tamir Rice: judge finds cause for murder charge over police killing of 12-year-old [theguardian.com]
In a 10-page order, Judge Adrine wrote that after viewing surveillance video, which shows Tamir being shot dead within two seconds of Loehmann’s arrival, he was “still thunderstruck by how quickly this event turned deadly”.
The judge said Tamir was given “little if any time” to respond to any commands from the officers, that his arms were not raised, and that he made no “furtive movement”. Adrine wrote: “Literally, the entire encounter is over in an instant.”
Holy fucking shit! [youtube.com] The judge was not kidding! A fully trained Amazon warrior would have been able to escape or attempt de-escalation, but not a 12 year old kid! We can argue about the semantics and nature of the wibbly-wobbly information we have about the other killings (murders? self-defense?), but this here is pretty unambiguous.
Rather than be outraged at the idiots that gave him that gun, you're outraged at the police who had a perfectly reasonable justification for shooting him.
I would have expected the police to do a more thorough assessment of the situation before bringing lethal force to bear. What if it were a situation that required lethal force? What if Tamir really was a big, bad black man hopped up on meth and cocaine with a real weapon? Well, congratulations, officer, you just put yourself in a tactically stupid position by even getting that close to him. Honestly, what was the officer's next move going to be if the shot wasn't fatal or otherwise didn't immediately drop Tamir?
(Presumably the officer will be a better marksman than your run-of-the-mill suspect, but screw that advantage by zooming right into point-blank range!)
Isn't it much more normal procedure for the very first thing to be drawing one's weapon, taking aim, and ordering the suspect to drop their weapon? We don't have audio, and the kid does seem to be acting quite stupid, and as much as I wish stupidity were a capital offense some days, it isn't and shouldn't be. AND HE'S A KID FFS!
(Yes, I know, all guns are always loaded [wikipedia.org], which is why I would recommend keeping distance. I was not aware of the color code system just above the linked section, but it makes sense. The officer should have been at orange at maximum, but flew straight into red. In fact, reinterpreting what happened, the officer was fucking lucky the kid's firearm was nonlethal and the kid was apparently at white.)
I'll take your word for it you're not racist, but you seem to have quite the authoritarian interpretation of that event in particular.
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Tuesday August 11 2015, @06:59AM
Will they make the "right call" tonight in Ferguson, withe cocked and loaded oathkeepers?
I thought so.
You and a Klansman differ largely in social class, no more than that.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @09:37PM
Christian Taylor, 19 - shot LAST WEEK by police while browsing auto dealer.
Dude! 90% of the time you are spot on. But then you go and say something stupid like that.
Yeah, he was browsing the dealership. And then he drove his SUV through the gate and through the showroom window. That's not just a story the cops made up afterwards, the video has been released [youtu.be] - the action starts about five and half minutes in.
I'm not saying that justifies his execution, not at all. I'm pretty confident that a drunk white kid who did the same thing would have received much more leeway. But downplaying the facts only gives people a reason to distrust everything else you say. Few of us have the time to fact-check everything you say, so once you give people a reason to dis-trust you, they will just dismiss everything you say.
(Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday August 10 2015, @11:19PM
See also (er, listen also) the radio chatter [youtube.com]. The video portion and poster's commentary is polarizing, but the radio chatter does not lie.
This case is vastly more complicated than Tamir's above. (Tamir's execution being so blatant I can only hope I got close to expressing how revolted I felt when I watched the footage; it's like a scene from a bad dystopian movie.)
I'm not saying that justifies his execution, not at all.
I'm in agreement with this. Had Taylor succeeded, we'd be looking at a minimum of grand theft auto and property destruction.
The thing that came to mind for me was a question, “Why do we try to save suicides?” I wonder what the difference is between a young black man who royally screws up, for whatever reason, and a suicide. In fact, we violate the intention of a suicide attempt when we attempt to save their life! Yet, we do it anyway. I have a feeling I would not like to know the answer to my wondering, but I also feel I already do.
It seems dishonorable to bring lethal force to bear against an unarmed opponent, no matter what criminal acts s/he's obviously guilty of. (Well, unless your opponent is at Bruce Lee's level, but I doubt this kid had that level of martial arts prowess to be a lethal or even credible threat without a weapon.)
(Score: 2) by albert on Tuesday August 11 2015, @05:03AM
The "friend" who loaned the gun to Tamir did evil. That might be a crime. Certainly there should be some civil liability for the death. This could apply to the friend's parents, as the friend was a minor AFAIK.
Tamir is said to have been mentally deficient. That, and the fact that he was a minor, means that his parents (or court-appointed guardians) have a duty to control him. This is both for his safety and for the safety of others. Clearly there was complete failure here. Since this is child abuse resulting in a death, it is most likely (depending on state law) equivalent to murder. Yep, it would be easy to convict the parents/guardians of a pretty severe crime.
Note that the pellet gun was easily capable of blinding somebody. With a great deal of luck it might have killed somebody via the jugular and/or eye socket. While not anywhere near as capable as a police pistol, the gun was certainly not an appropriate toy for a mentally deficient child.
Tamir himself was of course criminal, though we might lay the criminal responsibility on his parent/guardian due to age and mental deficiency. You do not get to repeatedly point a gun at random strangers in the park. It's unfortunate that Tamir was dumb enough to not immediately freeze when confronted by the police.
The police did a somewhat crappy job. There is a lot of room between "good job" and "criminal" though, and it wasn't unreasonable for the police to fear getting shot. They have families to go home too also; they didn't take the job in hopes of dying in the line of duty. It is reasonable to say that the police could have kept a bit more distance initially, but that might not have changed the ultimate outcome. Police training should also emphasize that telling somebody with a gun in their pocket to drop the gun is inviting them to reach for the gun.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2015, @06:39AM
> “Why do we try to save suicides?”
Because 99% of suicides are impulse decisions made at the height of depression when the person is not of sound mind. As a society it is our duty to protect people who can't protect themselves.
The question of whatever some people use that duty as cover to abuse people is distinct from the existence of that duty in the first place.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @09:40PM
No. Fuck you you lying racist piece of shit, calling reasonable people Klansmen is rotten. Since when did browsing a car dealership involve destroying cars, crashing a car through the showroom and locking yourself in the bathroom and assaulting cops? Fuck you and the people moderating you up. Your agenda to accomplish whatever you're trying to accomplish with lies is going to get people killed because they will feel justified in acting like fucking morons around police. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I had any part in that, but I'm not a sociopath.
(Score: 2) by albert on Tuesday August 11 2015, @01:33AM
Wow. Are you reading super-biased news sites or did you distort the facts yourself?
He starts "browsing" by climbing over the locked gate at 12:52 AM. That's after midnight, when car dealers are closed and everybody knows it. Climbing over the locked gate is not a generally accepted way to go browse the merchandise. WTF was he thinking, and WTF are you thinking? This is already a crime from the first moment.
Next he tries to open the door of a car that doesn't belong to him. At 1:02 AM he tries another vehicle, this time a truck. Then he goes to a third vehicle and tries to break the window. Failing that, he climbs on top and kicks in the windshield. Loudspeakers repeat "Warning!" as he continues to break into the car.
At 1:07 AM he gets into the now-damaged car. By 1:11 AM he gives up (can't start it?) and walks back to his SUV.
At 1:13 he drives through the locked gate and crashes right into the showroom. (like the Terminator)
Oh, but he "was a volunteer for church and homeless outreach" so that makes it OK? He's just a sweet nice kid?
Here is a reality check for you. This sort of behavior is absolutely 100% outrageously unacceptable. It's not some minor little misbehavior thing. It's not a silly prank. It's not OK in any way. Anybody who would do this sort of shit is a horrible horrible person.
Furthermore, you #BlackLivesMatter people discredit yourselves every time you use examples like Christian Taylor. You can't be taken seriously. Every time I bother to look up the details of one of your examples, I find that the deceased has engaged in some shockingly horrible behavior. I'll grant that probably 5% of the time the cops deserve prison, and maybe another 30% of the time deserve to be fired, but in no way are the supposed "victims" deserving of life in civilized society.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @07:10PM
What do you do when the orders are unlawful, or they do not give you time to obey the orders. What then?
(Score: 1) by Francis on Monday August 10 2015, @07:30PM
That's a very good question to ask. Unfortunately, it really depends on what the order is,the context and where you are. There are things that are illegal, but of little consequence to anybody and so are probably not worth the risk. Then are things that are very illegal and might be worth dieing for. Refusing to stop videotaping an arrest might well be worth whatever the consequences are especially if you suspect that there's something fishy going on.
The big thing though is to to know what your rights are so you know if you have to do it.
Unfortunately, lawful or unlawful, you'll probably be arrested for disobeying or possibly obstruction. But, ultimately it's going to come down to your own judgment over what you're willing to risk by saying no. And the specific rights are going to vary from state to state and country to country, so it's going to be best to find a local source of where the line is located.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @07:41PM
Apartheid and the Holocaust were "Lawful."
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday August 10 2015, @11:24PM
How is this troll? This is a valid response, and I believe even serves to highlight what Francis may or may not have been driving at. Not all responses to comments need to be interpreted as adversarial.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Monday August 10 2015, @06:12PM
If you figure up every black male shot by police in the last 3 years they still number less than blacks murdered by blacks in the last 30 DAYS. Like it or not we have an epidemic in this country, black kids raised by teen mothers that have no fathers and whose role models glorify violence, drug dealing, and the abuse of women...is it really any surprise that people have stopped caring when every.single.day. in the large cities we are seeing huge body counts?
Look up the stats yourselves [infowars.com], links to both the FBI crime stats and the DoJ crime stats are right in the middle of the page, help yourself. For those that can't open PDF files here is just two little facts from those stats, blacks make up 13% of the population yet committed half the murders in the USA, whites are also twice as likely than blacks to be killed by police so the myth of cops going out shooting blacks while ignoring whites is just that, and finally the myth of whites targeting blacks? A black male is more than 40 times as likely to assault a white as vice versa.
If this was sickle cell racking up this many dead a week? We'd be having telethons and every celeb would be on TV demanding a cure, but because this is black teens destroying themselves (and everybody that gets in their way, because as one prison shrink says those black teens raised on the street has the emotional maturity of an 8-12 year old [youtube.com]) what we hear is silence or the same old song and dance about "white racism". Well it ain't whites burning down those neighborhoods, it ain't the whites making up those "flash mobs" looting and assaulting everyone in their path, it ain't the whites that are looking to have Baltimore reach triple digit body count before the end of summer, its out of control blacks between the ages of 14-38.
At the end of the day you will never solve a problem without getting to the root, why do cops shoot black teens? Because they are afraid of them, but WHY are they afraid of them? The numbers above show why they are afraid, because if its a violent crime, be it rape, armed robbery, assault, or murder? Its 8 times more likely to be a black than a white or asian or anybody else. Until you solve THAT problem? All you are doing is blowing smoke. And the hilarious part is a certain section of a certain party will call you "racist" for daring to say black kids killing each other is wrong, like black violence is a "lifestyle choice" that should be respected instead of a problem that should be worked on.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by stackOVFL on Monday August 10 2015, @06:36PM
Not sure why you got Troll on this for. If you read the article you'll see that the shooting was the result of two black folks shooting at each other for over a minute. That seems like black on black to me. I'll probably get troll too.
Just because you don't like what is being said does not make it wrong. The post above mine hit's the nail on the head and is 100% correct.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2015, @06:48AM
Hairy's post had nothing to do with the two shooters at Ferguson. It is a cut-n-paste of his previous post [soylentnews.org] in response to outsourced electronic monitoring of prominent non-violent blacklivesmatter protest organizers and their classification as "physical threats." That this story involved black-on-black crime is just dumb luck on his part, not insight.
Besides, it has already been shown that (a) he made up the numbers and (b) that he cherry-picked the categories of numbers for something that sounds relevant to the credulous but really has nothing to do with the indiscriminate application of state violence to black people.
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @06:59PM
Read carefully and thoroughly:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/09/ferguson-civil-rights-movement-deray-mckesson-protest [theguardian.com]
This is the justice issue of our time.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @07:12PM
You are so full of shit. Selection bias, and faulty methodology - not to mention exclusion of socioeconomic skewing.
You know who's company you keep with this bullshit? Stormfront. And Bill Cosby.
So if you want to engage in intellectual fallacy, there's a couple of association indications.
Fucking racist dirtbag.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @07:34PM
Hi. You seem very passionate about this issue. As a passionate person, you should desire strongly that your passion and efforts are not wasted. You should want to be effective in your advocacy.
With me so far? Great.
Ok. A thing that you should be aware of: the accusation of racism is used so casually now, and the prevailing narrative around what is and isn't racism has been so perverted by the academic left, that at this point, none of the people that you need to reach out to and convince actually care about that word or accusations of same.
I don't care if you tell me I am a racist. It just doesn't matter to me any more. In fact, from your short response, I haven't really learned anything about the OP; instead, I've learned something about you.
In order to actually move the needle in this world, with the people you probably need to reach, you will have to do better than being furious and tossing out accusations of racism and attempting character assassinations via proxy or association.
You'll have to actually engage them on their points.
I mean, you don't _have_ to do anything.
But if you want to be effective, you'll have to try something else.
Finally, many people -- especially the American left -- suppose that all of their political opposition will simply die off. You may suppose that racism will die off eventually, and you can just berate people instead of engaging with them until they all finally die off.
I'm not so optimistic. Each time you write that someone gets their ideas from Stormfront, someone new goes and looks at Stormfront. Like many Americans, I was raised to hate racism and desire a racially plural society. I was raised to despise racists. Official society did a good job of reinforcing this. For me, reality didn't match the prevailing mythology.
The prevailing narrative today, in its desire to bring about a racially harmonious society, suppresses honest discussion of race and race issues. And so when you point people at Stormfront, some people go there, and they see a refreshing world of ideas and opinions they haven't seen written down before or discussed openly. And some of what they see, even if superficially, matches their own observations, and takes them further than is perhaps warranted.
The Manifesto of Dylan Roof suggests to me that this was roughly his own personal journey - raised on the myth, frustrated when he saw it crumble, and received into a world of forbidden ideas at places like Stormfront.
Shouting "fucking racist" at people you don't like, over race issues you wished didn't have a shred of merit, creates more Dylan Roofs.
So, if you want to be effective, you need to change your approach.
Best of luck.
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday August 10 2015, @07:42PM
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing [twitter.com]
https://twitter.com/AnonCopWatch [twitter.com]
https://twitter.com/Nettaaaaaaaa [twitter.com]
https://twitter.com/deray [twitter.com]
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @08:12PM
whites are also twice as likely than blacks to be killed by police so the myth of cops going out shooting blacks"
from the link you provided
"According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, between 1999 and 2011, 2,151 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks."
Whites make up for 77.7% of the US population. Do the math again.
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Monday August 10 2015, @08:37PM
...which proves what exactly? I mean it's not like police should be held to a higher standard than gang bangers right? I find this sort of spin more disturbing that I can possibly describe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @10:00PM
The point there is that we do have a problem with the police, but the community itself would be better served to police their own as that's a much larger problem that the cops can't solve. Things are changing in police departments with the dashboard cams and now body cams, but black on black violence is a much larger problem and one that is even less likely to be solved any time soon.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @11:58PM
The point there is that we do have a problem with the police, but the community itself would be better served to police their own as that's a much larger problem that the cops can't solve.
Those are not mutually exclusive options.
Framing them as if they were is mendacious.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday August 10 2015, @08:59PM
If you figure up every black male shot by police in the last 3 years they still number less than blacks murdered by blacks in the last 30 DAYS.
What is your point? Why does this matter? It is significantly worse for the government to be corrupt than it is for random criminals to be corrupt. The government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people, so it is far worse when an institution of the people abuses people's rights. You seem to think we can just ignore government abuse because you think there is a worse problem happening elsewhere.
At the end of the day you will never solve a problem without getting to the root, why do cops shoot black teens?
Because cops are usually incompetent, racist, and outright malicious. A supposedly higher crime rate from some race does not warrant targeting someone for being a member of said race; that is unconstitutional (because skin color does not grant them authority to destroy someone's rights) and racist garbage. Your fearmongering overlooks the countless innocents who have their rights violated.
The government routinely violates the constitution and people's rights, and that is not a problem that can or should be solved by merely reducing the crime rates.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday August 10 2015, @09:53PM
You're generalizing all police in the same manner you claim they're targeting potential criminals.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @10:10PM
> You're generalizing all police in the same manner you claim they're targeting potential criminals.
Nobody is born a cop. It is a self-selecting group.
So, while he is generalizing about the police, it isn't even close to the way the cops target black men.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday August 11 2015, @12:50AM
Really? Where did I use the word "all" or say anything similar? And even in cases where a specific cop does not violate people's rights themselves, they will often stick up for and lie for cops that do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11 2015, @01:12AM
> And even in cases where a specific cop does not violate people's rights themselves, they will often stick up for and lie for cops that do.
Don't you know, when one muslim does something terrible, any muslim who does nothing is actually condoning it.
But when one cop does something terrible, other cops have no responsibility at all.
That's the difference between being a member of a widely distributed religion and being a cop with a clearly defined management hierarchy.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Tuesday August 11 2015, @04:58PM
Because cops are usually incompetent, racist, and outright malicious.
Right there.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday August 11 2015, @09:11PM
What part of "usually" is not clear? Even the ones who don't do the rights violating tend to defend and lie for those that do. I strongly believe "usually" is correct.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2015, @09:53PM
If you figure up every black male shot by police in the last 3 years they still number less than blacks murdered by blacks in the last 30 DAYS.
If you are going to make up numbers to justify your racist sophistry, don't pick numbers that can be proven false.
Cops killed at least 264 black males in just one year. [killedbypolice.net]
In 2013, the most recent year for which full numbers are available, total black on black homicide was 2,245. For an average of 185 per 30 days. [fbi.gov]
And all that ignores the fact that the numbers you picked are irrelevant to the question of the proper use of state power. What citizens do to each other is categorically not the same as what the state does to citizens.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday August 11 2015, @08:36AM
Here ya go friend, do the math [bjs.gov]. The last year we have reliable statistics as after 2005 Hispanics became white we have 8000 black homicides of which 93% were black on black, or 7440. Divide that by 12 and what do ya get? 620 per month. Now you could try to argue that there is less black on black crime, please show your figures AND remove the "Hispanics equal white" to get an accurate number please, but even if crime went down by HALF we are still looking at 320 per month which is more than 264, HAND.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.