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from the next-time-send-it-to-the-chief dept.
According to The Guardian:
The unnamed woman, a resident of Petrer in Alicante, south-east Spain, posted the photo on her Facebook page with the comment "Park where you bloody well please and you won't even be fined".
The police tracked her down within 48 hours and fined her.
Apparently, this is allowed in Spain so that police can "avenge their dishonor".
This is exactly the sort of behavior that leads to public distrust of police.
This story is a new take on online liberties in Spain:
A woman in Spain has been fined €800 (£570) [$886] after she took a picture of a police car parked in a disabled bay. She fell victim to a controversial new gagging law in the the country that prohibits 'the unauthorised use of images of police officers that might jeopardise their or their family's safety or that of protected facilities or police operations.'
Spanish story (more elaborate) here
I'd add a snarky comment here, but everything I came up with is just trolling.
Summing up my feelings: Spanish police: SRSLY, WTF?!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by lentilla on Tuesday August 18 2015, @10:37AM
To play devil's advocate here: whether or not the police acted irresponsibly rather depends on what they were doing at the time. Apply the "doughnut test": did they return with a bad guy in cuffs, grumbling about paperwork, or did they return with two dozen doughy treats (or whatever the Spanish equivalent happens to be)?
Personally, I'd much rather prefer police to park in the first available space when in the service of their citizenry and time is of the essence. If they are on a coffee run, or during routine operations, they should park like the rest of us going about our daily business.
The trouble is that's it impossible to tell the difference from the outside and there is a large groundswell of distrust towards this particular group of public servants. Senior police really do need to be able to address these queries with immediate transparency - they need to say "officers attended a reported X at Y o'clock this morning", or "officers went to get coffee and parked in a disabled zone - I have written them a ticket for violating parking restrictions".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @10:49AM
> To play devil's advocate here: whether or not the police acted irresponsibly rather depends on what they were doing at the time.
That's irrelevant to the point that the police filed a complaint against the woman that resulted in her being fined $800 for posting a photograph of their car.
That is irrefutably irresponsible.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday August 18 2015, @02:25PM
If they were in the middle of a raid or something, the picture being posted to the Internet could have conceivably tipped off the target. Slim chance, but it could happen.
Not that that was the excuse they used.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @10:55AM
To play devil's advocate here
What you say is irrelevant. The crucial point here is that freedom of speech is fundamental, and you should not be punished for posting photos of police.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:03AM
Sorry, but the Constitution says your freedom of speech is not absolute.
Freedom of ideology, religion and worship is guaranteed, to individuals and communities with no other restriction on their expression than may be necessary to maintain public order as protected by law.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:10AM
So posting an image of a wrong-parked police car is going to destroy public order?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:13AM
> Sorry, but the Constitution says your freedom of speech is not absolute.
(1) OP said it was fundamental, not absolute.
(2) The constitution is not above criticism
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:35AM
And if I were to tell you to suck a sack of nigger cocks, I will get modded down, even though my comment is fundamentally hypothetical.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @12:34PM
Sure you will get modded down. But you will not get fined.
(Score: 2) by Translation Error on Tuesday August 18 2015, @08:36PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @08:29PM
Which is exactly why its amendable.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:50AM
The constitution of the US is hardly relevant in Spain. Is that the Constitution you're talking about?
(Score: 2) by M. Baranczak on Tuesday August 18 2015, @01:06PM
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @01:29PM
No they don't, not anything worth a damn atmuch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @06:21PM
> The constitution of the US is hardly relevant in Spain. Is that the Constitution you're talking about?
He quoted the constitution he was citing. Is it too much to ask that you google the quote to verify where it came from before accusing him of being stupid?
Here's a hint, that quote does not exist in the US constitution.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 19 2015, @03:34AM
Oh no he didn't!
Hey dipshit, is it too much for YOU to practice what you preach and verify the quote [soylentnews.org] before you chastise someone else about it?
It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than it is to open it and prove them right.
(Score: 4, Informative) by FakeBeldin on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:53AM
You're quoting the wrong document.
From the actual constitution [congreso.es] in effect in this story, article 20.1a expresses something equivalent...
...but that's modified by 20.4, which points back to article 10.1 on fundamental duties: "...respect for the law...".
So the Constitution you used is the wrong one, but the conclusion happens to turn out correctly.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 18 2015, @02:34PM
Also relevant in Spain is the EU Convention on Human Rights [coe.int], which is a lot more like the US Bill of Rights than many of the European constitutions. If you're travelling to Europe, it's worth familiarizing yourself with it just in case - and obviously, Wheaton's Law still applies.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @01:46PM
>Sorry, but the Constitution says your freedom of speech is not absolute.
What Constitution? We're talking about Spain here. Does Spain even have a Constitution? Does Spain protect freedom of speech?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday August 18 2015, @05:00PM
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2011/spain#.VdNjOpfNLeg/ [freedomhouse.org] In fact it turns out that they do have Freedom of Speech. I'm sure it isn't exactly like the US, but they do have it.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 19 2015, @01:37AM
The law is not above criticism. It's against the law to speak out against the government in a number of countries, but people should oppose such restrictions. Likewise, forbidding people to post photos of cops is insane.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:01AM
Also I disagree that the course of what they were doing is relevant to what they did. If we take up the position that police time is invaluable, having them waste time looking for parking regardless of what they are doing is wasteful. I rather they have more time with which to respond to an emergency. If they were to get a call while at a donut shop and had to race 2 blocks to the car because that was the closest available parking spot, than we can quickly see why it would make no sense to have such a distinction. People would balk at police doing something they viewed as setting themselves above the common man, but forcing the police to endure life's seemingly pointless time-sinks like looking for parking for the sake of "putting them in their place" is actually self defeating in the grand scheme of things. I hope all the outraged people if they should be a victim of an assault do not spend the time while being assaulted wondering whether or not the police responding to their emergency parked in a handicap spot, or if he was gonna be a minute or two late because he is just such a good guy.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by moondrake on Tuesday August 18 2015, @12:11PM
No. This is not the way to organize things.
If you are going to allow police officers to park in the middle of the street just because they want to buy a coffee and are too important the walk 100 m more to a parking-lot, then how about a doctor. What when he is off-duty but could get a call? What about the fire-brigade, the local Mayor who may need to make a life-safing decision? What about a senior member of a political party? What about all those people who have important jobs? Many of those job bring in money, protect the local environment or even save lives occasionally. I am guessing soon the streets will be full of cars in that case though.
Oh, and you even went further. You think police should not even endure time-sinks. That means they get to jump queues at the donut and coffee place as well, the doctor as well of course, and the 20 men from the firebrigade. Hope they do not end up at the starbucks at the same time or a fight will ensue. Oh, and also you should always give right of way to police cars, whether they signal that they are in a hurry or not; it would be not good for them to make them wait as they might suddenly have to do something really important.
And now I did not even go into the possible danger of parking in places where you are not allowed to park... You probably think ambulances are allowed to kill pedestrians if they are in the way.
You have to draw a line somewhere. We did. And in most countries its not allowed for police officers to park where they please, unless they have a good reason to do so. If somebody thinks the police work is hampered by the long walk to the car, they should apply with the city counsel for a reserved parking place.
Back on topic, the law is nuts, but even so, in this case the fine is probably not valid (the Spanish article mentioned as much, but apparently she did not challenge it yet). Because this hit the news, luckily, more people are trying to get the law repealed or changed to be more reasonable.
Working in law enforcement is not a license to ignore the law. In fact, precisely because we have decided that you have the right to exercise power in the name of the people, you need to be watched more carefully, and have to uphold higher standards than the general public.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @01:17PM
Well you make mighty big assumptions in your response. I will admit that I am not familiar with the law in Spain, but you make no such claim either. So if their law does specifically say that they can park wherever they want to, does it make difference to your argument? That was merely the point I had. And even if there is no such law that says specifically that they can park wherever they damn please, so long as there is no law to the opposite I would think it was pragmatic to extend that privilege to them. But yes they should stand in line, which is fine since I know if they do get a call their car is parked right outside and they can get right in. Same for firefighters. Firefighters doing grocery shopping for their firehouse often do so with the firetruck parked right outside the store and they have their radio with them. I seen them leave a full cart of groceries and run out and drive off. Would a reasonable person expect them to put all those back before they go? Or to back out of a tight parking spot with a 30 foot ladder truck? Doubtful.
It should also be noted that emergency lights can only be used in an emergency. And only certain types of emergencies warrant using the siren in addition to the lights. Cops are not pre-cognitive individuals, and if they were they wouldn't use the lights to park because they knew they would go somewhere in a hurry in a few minutes, they would already be on the way there.
And in regards to the doctor claim, yes in fact doctor's time is more valuable than yours. You get that distinct feeling every time you go to one and wait 30 minutes to see him for 5 minutes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @06:25PM
> And in regards to the doctor claim, yes in fact doctor's time is more valuable than yours. You get that distinct feeling every time you go to one and wait 30 minutes to see him for 5 minutes.
Whenever someone thinks a non sequitur is relevant to their point, you know they have a very poor grasp of the argument.
(Score: 2) by Jiro on Tuesday August 18 2015, @04:20PM
The idea is that they should not have to endure time sinks when leaving. Being in the back of the line is not a time sink when leaving because they can just leave the line without getting the donuts. Having a car parked two blocks away *is* a time sink when leaving.
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Wednesday August 19 2015, @08:47AM
Touché.
Still...Even when it only concerns parking, I do not think its a very workable situation. In larger cities, there is just too many people who's work, occasionally (most police-officers are doing boring things most of the time) is very important. Letting them park wherever and whenever they please seems not worth the hassle (given that, at least where I live, police is not allowed to do this).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by BK on Tuesday August 18 2015, @12:25PM
Have you ever been stopped by the police for speeding? I have. Yep, I was going too fast. I told 'em that there was somewhere I had to be fast and it was really important. Yep, the cop took an extra few minutes and gave me a ticket.
Have you ever gotten a ticket for illegal parking. I have. F**kers towed my car. I was just going to be a few minutes anyway and it was **important**.
When the police are involved in an activity where time is critical, they have those handy blue laser strobe lights to let us all know. Maybe they're red in Spain? They weren't on, so we can and should assume that this is a convenience thing.
I take the position that police time is mostly no more valuable than mine. In the course of their duty, they should set an example of following the laws. In times where that isn't possible or reasonable, they should use the tools we give them to let us know.
As for that police car? It should have been ticketed and towed. It's not about putting someone in their place, it's about setting the right example.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @03:22PM
I have a similar story from years ago in a small EU country.
We were having a party with friends during national mid-summer festival and since I never drink my friends asked me to drive them to a shop to buy more beer, etc.
Police stops us. "We have to take your driving licence because you are driving under influence of alcohol." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "Seriously, I'm not." "Everyone is, it's mid-summer festival." "I don't even drink alcohol, ever." "Liar." "Could we take the test? It's really simple to find out if I have been drinking or not..."
then they tried to find if I had a missing med-kit, or some lights out of order. Damn, they could not stick it on anything. So, they left.
But since I was really upset at this behavious, I did not start the engine right away. My hands were literally shaking from adrenaline. So what happened?
The police car returned in a minute or maybe less. Found me "parked" where they stopped me, and gave me a ticket for "parking in the wrong place". Neither my explanation that I was there because they made me pull over there, nor that I couldn't start the engine, etc none of that mattered. They took my licence and told that if I want it back, I have to pay them.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @03:53PM
Yep, police are bastards regardless of their country of origin.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by iwoloschin on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:06AM
So I occasionally run into police cars parking in the bicycle lanes in Cambridge and Somerville, MA. If the car has it's emergency lights on, I assume there's an emergency and give them space, even if it means merging in with car traffic. If it's just sitting there, no emergency lights on, I *always* stop and ask the officer to either move or put their emergency lights on since they are currently creating a confusion and unexpected situation. They might grumble, but they know that a private vehicle would be ticketed for blocking the bicycle lane (by the very officers blocking the lane!), so they always quickly put their emergency lights on.
The GoPro mounted to my head might help persuade them though.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:38AM
I *always* stop and ask the officer to either move or put their emergency lights on since they are currently creating a confusion and unexpected situation
You're not black, are you?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Kromagv0 on Tuesday August 18 2015, @01:18PM
Since white privilege exists (very likely not to the extent some claim) what is wrong with using that to advance the cause of freedom for everyone. I know that since I am a professional reasonably well educated white guy I can be a thorn is the government's side at times without much of any repercussions. My favorite example was one time when I had a longer layover and was sitting at the gate for my next flight when one of the roving TSA agents asked if they could search my stuff. Yes they did walk up and ask "Sir, may I search your bag?" and I just politely stated no. The next question was "Sir, may I search your bag I really need to?" and again I politely stated no. At this point the TSA person doesn't know what to do so she calls for her supervisor who shows up and asks "Sir, may I search your bag?" and he gets the same polite no answer. He then calls his supervisor who finally shows up and actually demands that I hand over my bag for search. I calmly stated that I do not consent to this search that they neither have a warrant, probable cause or reasonable suspicion and without protest allow them to search my bag. The only thing in it was a charging cable for my work cellphone, my work laptop, the power cord for my work laptop, a couple of shirts, a hairbrush, safety razor, toothbrush, toothpaste, deodorant, and a couple of pairs of socks and underwear. It didn't waste any of my time since I was just stuck in the airport but it ended up wasting 30+ minutes from each of those TSA agents.
Yes I do realize that this action didn't solve anything but if more people did it then things would change. As I didn't have a recording or a method to write down their names I never filed a complaint. I now travel with a pen and notebook, as well as having a cellphone capable of recording so next time I get the opportunity I will be recording it as well as filing a complaint. Maybe then I will get put on that no fly list and won't ever have to travel for work anymore.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @03:35PM
I keep a little pocket USB audio recorder in my pocket for cases like this (about $25). I assume that not pointing a camera at security/enforcement will be somewhat less confrontational (and one less thing to pay attention about aiming). My state requires that only one party to be aware of a recording, so I think one still needs to be aware of different laws in other states. Not a lawyer, just the response I came up with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @05:43PM
> Since white privilege exists (very likely not to the extent some claim) what is wrong with using that to advance the cause of freedom for everyone.
That's not how white privilege works. White privilege refers to the normal state - the level and type of treatment that everyone should receive. The problem is that whites are more likely to be treated normally than anyone else. As the saying from Animal Farm goes, all men are equal, but some men are more equal than others. You weren't using white privilege to accomplish anything with the TSA agents, you were using your rights as a citizen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @06:50PM
What is normal is by definition not a privilege. Whatever reasoning that has been used to define being treated normally as white privilege should be thrown out and redone- or just admit that the whole thing is absurd and behave like a rational human being.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @08:35PM
Whats normal for whites isn't normal for everyone else. Non-whites are treated like sub-human scum, but whites have the privilege of being treated like human beings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 18 2015, @11:28PM
I understood the GP's point to be that it is not a privilege because it is meant to be the standard by which everyone is addressed, therefore to call it white privilege is inaccurate and it should be called by its other name: racism.
Because that is what it is when you persecute someone based on their race.
(Score: 2) by iwoloschin on Tuesday August 18 2015, @04:11PM
Nope. But why not take advantage of that? My primary goal here is safety of all road users, and in particular me and my fellow cyclists. If I can *politely* request a police officer act in a safer manner you'd better believe I'm going to go out of my way to make that request. Doubly so if I think other cyclists may not feel comfortable talking to the officer.
For what it's worth, while riding my bike into work this morning I passed the Deputy Chief of my city's police department. He gave me a high five. This might also be a big factor in why I feel quite comfortable talking to police officers, I'm more afraid of not knowing a secret fist bump than of getting shot. Maybe more high ranking police officers need to give high fives?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 18 2015, @07:41PM
I took a picture of the Scofflaw Patrol car double-parked in a bike lane in front of a 7-11 in Brooklyn. I sent it into the precinct and posted it on the neighborhood blog (incredibly active and activist neighborhood). Those guys don't work there anymore.
Washington DC delenda est.