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posted by
cmn32480
on Friday August 28 2015, @07:20PM
from the vroom-vroooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm dept.
from the vroom-vroooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm dept.
A score of 103 out of 100 could be called kind of... Insane. This is exactly what the Tesla Model S P85D in 'Insane' mode received during testing by Consumer Reports (CR), a score so off-the-charts good that it actually broke the scale and forced CR to revise how they measure things. The official score with the new, updated methodology will be 100/100.
What made the Tesla break the ratings was the combination of supercar performance and extreme energy efficiency. These things haven't historically been found together, and so CR never had a car that go such high scores in both columns.
Impressive, but alas...traffic.
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The New Tesla Broke the Consumer Reports Rating System With a Score of 103%
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You humans are all alike.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Snow on Friday August 28 2015, @08:06PM
I live in Calgary, and I took a trip to Vancouver this summer in my car (9 hours and almost 1000km). I saw like 5 Teslas on the highway. I laughed about it and said to my wife "Man, it must take them like 4 days to get from Calgary to Vancouver with all the charging stops".
When I got home, I checked out Tesla's website and they have their Superchargers available for FREE(!) high speed charging along the way. There were like 4 stations setup along the route specifically for the Calgary - Vancouver trip. Then it all made sense and I felt like a sucker for paying like $200+ in gas. Unfortuantely, I'm too poor to buy a Tesla :(.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by tftp on Friday August 28 2015, @08:15PM
Then it all made sense and I felt like a sucker for paying like $200+ in gas.
Do not worry; Tesla owners prepay for all that and more when they buy the car. It is not financially efficient yet to buy an EV. Nor is it convenient to charge it. I moved to an apartment building recently - a new construction, by the way - and the parking does not have EV chargers of any kind. Not even a 120V outlet, just for laughs.
EV industry needs to do far, far more before EVs become affordable. The cost of batteries must drop dramatically; the fast chargers (not superchargers, though - just for topping off) must spring up at every parking location - even in faraway villages, because you don't want to be stranded if you go there. Today an EV is a cool hack, but absolutely not a vehicle for everyone - too many dice must fall in exactly the right way for you to benefit from an EV.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Friday August 28 2015, @09:09PM
That's not the case. According to this [marketwatch.com], the longest (in terms of distance) commute in the United States is in Atlanta, at 12.8 miles. That means that even the meanest EV today is more than a match for the vast, vast majority of Americans' daily driving needs. So, even with today's models, EVs are a vehicle for everyone.
According to Tesla's website [teslamotors.com], the supercharging option is $2500. I drive a fuel-efficient ICE that gets 35-40mpg. I drive infrequently, perhaps 100miles/month. I refill every other week at $3/gal for $60/month. That's $700 per year. At that price and capacity I reach break-even in 3.5 years. Would people who drive less-efficient cars, more, reach that break-even time in more time than I would? No, the math rather suggests that it is financially efficient now to buy an EV.
My younger brother is an automotive engineer at Ford. He bought a BMW i3 6 months ago. Despite having another, gas-powered car, he has driven nothing but the i3 since. He eats, drinks, sleeps cars 24/7. It's all he ever thinks about. But he drives an EV exclusively now. He had a charging point installed in his garage for $500 that charges his car in 3-4 hours overnight. He never has to worry about gas stations.
Maybe you posted without having first-hand experience with EVs. You ought to. You won't go back to ICEs.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by tftp on Friday August 28 2015, @09:45PM
According to this, the longest (in terms of distance) commute in the United States is in Atlanta, at 12.8 miles.
People don't buy a $60-80K car just to commute 12.8 miles. That would *never* become financially efficient. If you insist on these numbers, then you kill the EV right here.
In reality people buy a car to drive *everywhere*. Perhaps on most of days they only drive around the block. But on weekends they jump in and drive hundreds of miles to swim, ski or otherwise enjoy themselves. You cannot drive an EV yet to a location that has no charger. Plenty of rural locations are short on even gas stations, let alone EV chargers. Some high desert routes in NV require attention to fuel level, and you refuel wherever you can.
I can easily understand why your brother, a car enthusiast, drives an EV. An EV today is a perfect toy for such people. I'm looking for a day when Jose the construction worker buys an EV to drive 50 miles to his job and back. For that a bunch of things must come together - the affordable price of the vehicle; the charging port at Jose's garage; the charger at the job, or a sufficient range of the vehicle, and a decent cargo carrying capacity. Towing is not required, though.
Right now Jose lives in an apartment. His car is parked in the street and, obviously, cannot be charged there. Jose does not have extra cash to buy even a $60K car - he drives a $5K car that he got at the used cars lot. And certainly Jose has no charger at the job - which is sometimes short of even electric power for the tools, as those connections are not yet made. Jose and people like him represent a very significant part of driving public. They will not buy an EV unless it can be profitable in the short term.
Today an EV may be a good fit for a technology enthusiast who is willing to overlook limitations of the technology. He has a house with a garage; he has a family, so that he owns several cars - a gas car among them. He does not need to drive far; he has a stable routine, and he is always returning home at night, so that his car can be charged. He is wealthy enough to either buy a Tesla for cash, or he can easily get and pay back a loan. You see what dice I'm talking about? If you are in such a situation, go ahead and buy an EV. I am not in such a situation; I have only one vehicle, and it has to do everything. Some of my trips are 420-430 miles non-stop (except for gas, once, which takes 5 minutes per stop.) I have no charger anywhere, and I do not even think about such things - I have other things to worry about. I have no stable routine, and I may not get around to charge an EV in a long time. In essence, an EV is not offering me anything over and above what I already have. My gas costs, with a Gen. 2 Prius, are in the noise. Why again should I go out and pay 4x to 5x over the price of a new gas car for an EV?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 28 2015, @11:39PM
> But on weekends they jump in and drive hundreds of miles to swim, ski or otherwise enjoy themselves.
On average, hundred-mile trips happen a handful weekends a year. If you have to exaggerate to make your point, all you do is invalidate their point.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 29 2015, @12:07AM
It's not a toy. He drives it every day to work and back, and everywhere else he needs to go. It's very much a practical vehicle. Same thing for my brother-in-law, who owns the same model. Did you miss that part? Or is it that you're trying to shoehorn everything related to EVs into a preconceived notion you have?
You're worried about refueling in rural places. Well, rural places are more likely to have electricity than nearby gas stations, so EVs solve your problem. If OPEC (again) and Russia shut off all the oil tomorrow, there will still be electricity in America. I remember oil shortages in the 70's, but perhaps you do not. That is the definition of range anxiety.
You do sound a bit desperate to discredit EVs, throwing everything but the kitchen sink as you have. In practice, on the ground, EVs are already a practical solution for the vast majority of trips of the vast majority of most Americans (according to the data already provided about average commutes).
Go drive one. If you're brave enough, lease one. They're lovely.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday August 29 2015, @12:14AM
Go drive one. If you're brave enough, lease one. They're lovely.
What if I cannot afford one?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 29 2015, @01:30AM
My brother bought his i3 used for $8K. Seems pretty affordable to me, especially when you consider the savings in gasoline and maintenance.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday August 29 2015, @01:42AM
HEY, I would do the same! A whole bunch of people would do the same! Unfortunately, nobody offers me an EV for $8K. We are dealing with quite different prices - and that's exactly what I'm trying to say [soylentnews.org].
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 29 2015, @08:04PM
Buy one used, like he did
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 30 2015, @03:35AM
> Unfortunately, nobody offers me an EV for $8K.
Then you are not looking hard enough 12+ nissan leafs less than $9K [cargurus.com]
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday August 30 2015, @07:08PM
It's more expensive here [cargurus.com]. Otherwise... perhaps, perhaps. (But in my own case I have only one parking spot without a charger, and an EV cannot be my only car. That is not related to the price, of course.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 28 2015, @11:01PM
Bullshit. The distance between Colorado Springs and Denver is approximately 60 miles and people commute across that to work daily here.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 29 2015, @01:37AM
Are you saying that with Tesla's 200 mile range that those people you cite could not manage a 120 mile round trip commute?
Nevertheless, the source I cited before says that the average daily commute for Denver, CO, is 8.5 miles. Is that inaccurate? Are those who commute from Colorado Springs to Denver the median commuter, or are they the outliers? Because 17 miles round trip is pretty do-able for even plug-in hybrids running in pure battery mode.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Sunday August 30 2015, @02:46AM
That 12.8 mile commute must be an average (or possibly median), and it probably includes people who walk to work - possibly also the unemployed.
I'm in Jacksonville, my commute is indeed about 9.1 miles, but I'm "average" in my office, many people drive 2-3x that distance, and a fair number drive less than that.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 28 2015, @08:16PM
Along some major routes where Tesla set up charging stations, you may be able to travel - it's still a gamble. But go off the beaten path, even slightly, I would prefer to drive a Toyota corolla over a Tesla.
Battery/alternative power tech has a long way to go.
(Score: 1) by dwilson on Saturday August 29 2015, @02:46PM
I live north of Calgary, and haven't seen a Tesla on the roads yet. I also haven't been looking, though. And the supercharge stations may not exist in the Calgary/Edmonton corridor.
I'll keep an eye out, though. I'm -very- curious to know how these cars do on the city roads come December/January. You know what I mean, the road conditions that will keep all those self-driving cars out of Canada [bloomberg.com] for the next few years, at the very least.
I've always figured the intense cold would be absolute hell on the fancy batteries, built-in heater or not.
- D