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posted by Dopefish on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:00AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the community-oversight-is-needed dept.
AnonTechie writes "Bruce Schneier: The NSA has become too big and too powerful. What was supposed to be a single agency with a dual mission --protecting the security of U.S. communications and eavesdropping on the communications of our enemies has become unbalanced in the post-Cold War, all-terrorism-all-the-time era. Putting the U.S. Cyber Command, the military's cyberwar wing, in the same location and under the same commander, expanded the NSA's power. The result is an agency that prioritizes intelligence gathering over security, and that's increasingly putting us all at risk. It's time we thought about breaking up the National Security Agency."
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:07AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:07AM (#7831) Journal

    The purpose of intelligence is to gain advantage over an enemy, which means we are already in a state of war. The purpose of intelligence now is to create an enemy, so the intelligence drives the politics. Any questions?

    --
    #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by dmc on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:22AM

      by dmc (188) on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:22AM (#7835)

      I have one mod point left, and I can't bring myself to mod the parent up because I know it'll get to 5 anyway. This is the heinous evil that has possessed our wonderous internet [firstlook.org]. The 'eternal september' of the unwashed masses flooding into usenet was nothing compared to the wickedness described in that linked document. Page 24 quotes- "Create Cognitive Stress" "Create Physiological Stress" "Create Affective Stress" "Exploit Shared Affect" "Time-shift perceived behavior" "Divorce behavior from outcome" "channel behavior" "exploit prior beliefs" "the big move covers the little move" "repitition reduces vigilance". Page titled "Gambits For Deception". Documented titled "Training for a new generation of online covert operations". Recipient: USA (secret government).

      I sure as hell hope Jesus is Angry. I am.

      Don't even get me started about their enumeration of techniques for "pulling a group apart". Ratf*cking dirtbags. I'd pull the trigger if I could find em.

      "
      These agencies' refusal to "comment on intelligence matters" - meaning: talk at all about anything and everything they do - is precisely why whistleblowing is so urgent, the journalism that supports it so clearly in the public interest, and the increasingly unhinged attacks by these agencies so easy to understand. Claims that government agencies are infiltrating online communities and engaging in "false flag operations" to discredit targets are often dismissed as conspiracy theories, but these documents leave no doubt they are doing precisely that.

      Whatever else is true, no government should be able to engage in these tactics: what justification is there for having government agencies target people - who have been charged with no crime - for reputation-destruction, infiltrate online political communities, and develop techniques for manipulating online discourse? But to allow those actions with no public knowledge or accountability is particularly unjustifiable.
      "

      https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtri g-manipulation/ [firstlook.org]

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by metamonkey on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:04PM

        by metamonkey (3174) on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:04PM (#7983)

        Don't even get me started about their enumeration of techniques for "pulling a group apart". Ratf*cking dirtbags. I'd pull the trigger if I could find em.

        And now we know. Dice Holdings is front for the NSA, and Slashdot beta is their weapon.

        --
        Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
      • (Score: 1) by Skarjak on Thursday February 27 2014, @05:09PM

        by Skarjak (730) on Thursday February 27 2014, @05:09PM (#8049)

        After reading your post, my first though was:"Whoa. You got some balls posting this online, dude."

        It's kinda sad when you think about it. Humanity needs a network where we can share our beliefs and information anonymously. The one we had was taken from us.

        • (Score: 2) by dmc on Thursday February 27 2014, @10:02PM

          by dmc (188) on Thursday February 27 2014, @10:02PM (#8137)

          After reading your post, my first though was:"Whoa. You got some balls posting this online, dude."

          That's the thing about about the new surveillance and oppression apparatus- they are systematically using deeply funded psychological tactics combined with new levels of pervasive technology to "cut the balls and ovaries off of all who would voice their dissent against it". I either suffer from a persecution complex, or as I still believe more likely- complex persecutions that have been going on for over a decade.

          Ponder this quote from the 'Reverend' Jesse Jackson regarding potential new president Barack Obama in a more historical context now-

          "I want to cut his nuts off."

          http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25611808/ns/politics-dec ision_08/t/obama-accepts-jesse-jacksons-apology/ [nbcnews.com]

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by everdred on Thursday February 27 2014, @06:41PM

        by everdred (110) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 27 2014, @06:41PM (#8076) Homepage Journal

        So here's a question for discussion: how resistant is the Slashdot/Soylentnews(/maybe Reddit) community moderation model to this sort of manipulation? Obviously divisive/trollish stuff will end up moderated appropriately, but what would a well-executed +5 Insightful post look like?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Sir Garlon on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:00PM

      by Sir Garlon (1264) on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:00PM (#7922)

      Unfortunately, there are sometimes also real enemies that we aren't sure are enemies, and it's legitimate for intelligence to figure out who those are. Which raises the question, how do our leaders know which enemies are real and were discovered by intelligence, and which are fake and were manufactured by intelligence? Credibility and integrity are essential to real intelligence work. That's why the NSA are a disgrace not only to the principles of the United States, but to the profession of intelligence.

      Breaking up is too good for 'em. I want a purge to go with it: hand over the entire classified archives of the NSA to court control and use it to find evidence against the criminals.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    • (Score: 1) by morgauxo on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:24PM

      by morgauxo (2082) on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:24PM (#7999)

      Of course it is! It was always doomed to become this. When people's job requires an enemy what do you think they will eventually do? It's called job security.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:54PM (#8020)

      War is not required for spying at all. Spying on allies is common and not a stupid thing to do, since one day allies may become enemies.

      "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Henry John Temple Palmerston.

      The real problem is if your spies spy on your leaders and your own people without good and proper oversight. When spies spy on those supposed to control them, the spies may end up the controllers instead.

      If you lie to Congress and everyone finds out, what would happen to you?

      So who is in control?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by SMI on Thursday February 27 2014, @04:21PM

        by SMI (333) on Thursday February 27 2014, @04:21PM (#8033)

        "The real problem is if your spies spy on your leaders and your own people without good and proper oversight."

        The real problem is if your spies spy on your leaders and your own people without warrant and cause. FTFY.

        According to TPTB, we already have an abundance of 'good and proper oversight', but that didn't/hasn't stopped mass surveilance, and it doesn't make it ok, either.

  • (Score: -1) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:54AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:54AM (#7843)

    Nancy Pelosi was one of the several people in the House whom had knowledge of the NSA's activities. She has defended the NSA on at least a few votes. Pelosi wants tax payer funded health care for every American, so I'm not going to buy the argument of her being 'evil'.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:57AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2014, @07:57AM (#7844)

      A target of blackmail perhaps? Maybe the NSA knows something about her that she'd rather not be made public.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Sir Garlon on Thursday February 27 2014, @12:51PM

      by Sir Garlon (1264) on Thursday February 27 2014, @12:51PM (#7918)

      Because she agrees with you on one issue, she can't be evil?

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    • (Score: 2) by SMI on Thursday February 27 2014, @04:00PM

      by SMI (333) on Thursday February 27 2014, @04:00PM (#8024)

      Clearly, Barabbas was right, only sooner.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by TheRaven on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:02PM

    by TheRaven (270) on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:02PM (#7923) Journal
    The NSA has two missions:
    1. Make all computers insecure so they can spy on people.
    2. Make computers in the US secure, so other people can't spy on them.

    It doesn't take a genius to work out that this isn't going to end well, especially when there are obvious metrics for assessing the first but not the second...

    --
    sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by AnonTechie on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:21PM

      by AnonTechie (2275) on Thursday February 27 2014, @01:21PM (#7932) Journal

      Well said. Such attempts have been made in the past and they haven't ended well at all. See the Law of Unintended Consequences ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequenc es [wikipedia.org] ) or the Cobra Effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect [wikipedia.org] ).

      If other countries such as United Kingdom, Canada, Russia, Australia, New Zealand, China are also involved in such activities, then, can we ever hope to have secure systems ??

      --
      Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by internetguy on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:28PM

      by internetguy (235) on Thursday February 27 2014, @03:28PM (#8000)

      When Eric Schmidt went to North Korea this is what he told them:

      "The Internet was built for everyone, including North Koreans. The quickest way to get economic growth in North Korea is to open up the Internet."

      He failed to say that it would make NSA's job a lot easier if they would connect their systems to the Internet.

      --
      Sig: I must be new here.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday February 27 2014, @09:10PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday February 27 2014, @09:10PM (#8120) Journal

    Breaking up the NSA is a fine idea on the face of it, except it excuses the criminals in charge of that agency. Arrest and execute those at the top, three ranks deep, and you will see true repentance on the part of the staff. Break it up without those measures, and you will see three small agencies grow up to each be as large and lawless as the NSA is. That is how government works, regardless of branch. And we have never seen a department of the federal government in America broken up and punished so, so we can all take it to the bank that it will never happen in the future either unless we the citizens execute that action ourselves upon the criminals in DC. We are, now, at the point where that either happens expeditiously and comprehensively, or we will all suffer a thousand years of real slavery.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 28 2014, @05:24AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 28 2014, @05:24AM (#8294)

      Agree with all but second sentence.

      Only 19 comments on this? Really?