Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by n1 on Thursday April 03 2014, @08:35AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the back-to-spy-school dept.

Michele Chabin reports that the possible US decision to free spy Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew convicted in 1987 of spying for Israel, has politicians, settlers and activists on all sides in an uproar over whether the price is too high. Israel's news media reported that the Obama administration is weighing the release of Pollard in return for Israeli concessions to the Palestinians on settlement building and freeing of Palestinian prisoners. Pollard was arrested on November 21, 1985 after the conclusion of an investigation into suspicion he was spying for Israel. He was convicted in 1987 to a life sentence for one count of espionage.

Pollard is the only person in US history to receive a life sentence for spying for an ally and the only American citizen convicted of such a crime to be sentenced to more than 10 years in prison. Pollard is considered by many in Israel and the American Jewish community to be a national hero. Supporters of his release argue that his sentencing was disproportionately harsh and that he was acting out of loyalty to Israel, not mal-intent against the U.S., and that the documents he handed over to Israel were about Arab countries and the Soviet Union, not US intelligence methods. US officials claim the damage done by Pollard's spying is far worse than people realize. In an interview with Foreign Policy, retired Adm. Thomas Brooks, the former director of naval intelligence, said Pollard's actions have been "exceeded only by Edward Snowden," the NSA whistleblower. The last time US officials considered releasing Pollard during the Clinton administration, CIA Director George Tenet told Clinton he would resign if Pollard were released.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1) by starcraftsicko on Thursday April 03 2014, @08:50AM

    by starcraftsicko (2821) on Thursday April 03 2014, @08:50AM (#25409) Journal

    Excessive sentencing -- check!
    Spying -- check!
    Spying on allies -- looks like its not just the USA that does it -- check!

    Thomas Brooks, the former director of naval intelligence, said Pollard's actions have been "exceeded only by Edward Snowden," the NSA whistleblower.

    Snowden mentioned -- check!

    Aparently, Pollard's release is worse than Jul[D[D[D (OMG!) Clelsea?? Assange. So please, let's speculate what that could be.

    IMO, unless they that any Bothans actually died due to his one act of espionage, he has served long enough.

    --
    This post was created with recycled electrons.
    • (Score: 1) by starcraftsicko on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:25AM

      by starcraftsicko (2821) on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:25AM (#25424) Journal

      oops. Chelsea Manning. What I deserve for commenting on anything at 4AM.

      --
      This post was created with recycled electrons.
      • (Score: 2, Funny) by NullPtr on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:49AM

        by NullPtr (3786) on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:49AM (#25466) Journal

        This story is about Spurs, not Chelsea. Up the Yi...uh...Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

    • (Score: 1) by EvilSS on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:15AM

      by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:15AM (#25451)

      ...actually died due to his one act of espionage...
       
      I actually suspect this is the case, and that's why Tenet threatened to resign back when Clinton was considering it.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:16PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:16PM (#25475) Journal

        From what I've read he didn't just give info, he gave complete files which means he compromised field agents in one of the most dangerous areas on the planet, so yeah he has probably directly led to the deaths of field agents. I think if that is the case the CIA should just come right out and say "he compromised agents and led to the deaths of" followed by actual names so we know they aren't just pulling it out of their ass. if he got agents killed? Then a life sentence is completely fair as he is an accomplice.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:05AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:05AM (#25413) Journal

    No person can be loyal to two masters, and Pollard made his choice. Snowden also chose. His master is the American people. Israel makes a mistake to push for this.

    --
    Someone please explain to Hemo that my AC posts never get moderated because no one understands them. (Stolen AC sig. )
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by gishzida on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:28AM

      by gishzida (2870) on Thursday April 03 2014, @09:28AM (#25426) Journal

      Why? When the US has now been proved to be spying on everyone... even the US Senate. So how is it that Pollard should continue to serve time when our own spy agencies have been lying to the American people, to Congress, and to all of their allies? All while spending billions of dollars and having nothing at all to show for it? Can you say "Two Faced Liars?"

      Frankly Pollard has done enough time -- 30 years is enough... Israel never acted on any of the info they got. Snowden has done more real damage to the U.S Government than Pollard did. He exposed our Government is packed not only with torture specialists but liars and back stabbers with nothing at all to show for all of the things they've done... no credible threats were prevented. The saddest part is that the American people cannot do anything about it-- this was a set-up that started long, long ago and only got worse after 9/11... Pollard on the other hand was a paid professional.. and that is what rankles the Intelligence-Industrial Complex.

      Full Disclosure: I'm Jewish but I am not an Israeli... Understand that Jewish =! Israeli. In fact I am sure there are some nice orthodox American Jews that would not even consider me Jewish [but that is a whole different story].

      • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:58AM

        by wonkey_monkey (279) on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:58AM (#25446) Homepage

        He exposed our Government is packed not only with torture specialists

        I don't recall hearing anything about torture in any coverage of Snowden's documents*.

        *meant as an observation only, not some sly attack on the rest of your comments.

        --
        systemd is Roko's Basilisk
        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by gishzida on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:41AM

          by gishzida (2870) on Thursday April 03 2014, @11:41AM (#25462) Journal

          You are correct a clarification is warranted.

          No when I mention the "torture specialists" [aka "waterboarding", sleep deprivation, etc, etc] I was speaking of what was already known as morally and legally questionable actions prior to Snowden's leaks. The intent of stating that was to assert the government has been on shaky legal and moral ground since the Bush administration-- It is disturbing that we have employed people who did horrible things supposedly in the name of protecting the United States but did not actually prevent any terrorist operation nor did it help find Osama Bin Laden. So the government and its spooks have already broken the law in the name of "liberty"... I'm not sure how doing hateful things in the name of something makes them any less hateful especially when they did not accomplish anything at all!

          Snowden revealed the real facts of what the Bush administration and later the Obama administration have been hiding. Facts we which we were unaware of and had been suppressed during the Bush administration [remember no-warrant wire tapping?] [wikipedia.org] or at least down played to lull us back to sleep with assurances only bad people are being watched. Only now we discover the extent to which the "surveillance government" had breached the fourth amendment. This was all prior to Snowden even being hired. Or Obama taking office... I am unconvinced that Obama actually knew the particulars of what the "spooks have been doing" until Snowden wiped his nose in it.

          Keep in mind that just because one has paranoia does not mean that that there is no real reason to be paranoid. The more I hear the less happy I am about what this nation is becoming. We are becoming the thing we wished to destroy.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:35PM (#25582)

        Fuck you, Jewboy.

        The US is not Israel's puppet.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by gishzida on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:00PM

          by gishzida (2870) on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:00PM (#25608) Journal

          This reminds me of a jokeI once saw somewhere....

          It shows a poor Jewish schlemiel reading a white supremacist newspaper. His friend can't believe what he is seeing. "Moishe, why are you reading such a horrible paper? Don't you know it was written by people that hate us?" To which Moishe the Schlemiel replies. "But they say such good things about us... like how we are all so rich, and live in rich houses rather than slums, and drive big cars rather than public transportation, and control the media, and Washington, and all the big banks and financial institutions, They even say we control the world, and serially marry ten Shiksha wives. I did not know that, I, Moishe the poor Jew Schlemiel, control the world!"

          "Moishe you can't honestly believe that! You know that most of us are poor... They hate use for no good reason."

          "What you say is true Itzak... but it makes me *feel* so much better."

          Regards Mr. Troll. :)

    • (Score: 1) by Pherenikos on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:56PM

      by Pherenikos (1113) on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:56PM (#25916)

      I would agree that Snowden served the American people if he only released information pertaining to illegal spying on American citizens, however when he released information about our intelligence operations on foreign targets, it becomes much less clear. Even though it is unsavory, activities like tapping Angela Merkels phone was both good tradecraft and likely a good source of info.

      • (Score: 1) by glyph on Friday April 04 2014, @01:05PM

        by glyph (245) on Friday April 04 2014, @01:05PM (#26161)

        Snowden certainly didn't have the resources to pick and choose what has been released, but it was important he got it out there to be responsibly vetted by journalists. Also, I love how Merkel is considered a "foreign target" now. When should we expect the drone strike?

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by jimshatt on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:01AM

    by jimshatt (978) on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:01AM (#25429) Journal
    "acting out of loyalty to Israel, not mal-intent against the U.S." Yeah, that's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:02AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @10:02AM (#25430)
    So the next time certain NSA employees/bosses set foot on my country (not the USA) does that mean we can jail them for 30+ years?

    OK maybe just 10 years as per the USA's own "normal" sentence.
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Thursday April 03 2014, @01:31PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday April 03 2014, @01:31PM (#25513) Journal

      Yeah, please do. I'm even OK with you using your air force to force their planes to land if they enter your airspace, the way the US did with the Bolivian president when they thought Snowden was on his plane.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by morgauxo on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:15PM

      by morgauxo (2082) on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:15PM (#25562)

      Please do!

    • (Score: 1) by urza9814 on Thursday April 03 2014, @06:41PM

      by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday April 03 2014, @06:41PM (#25742) Journal

      YES!!! Brothers and sisters abroad, PLEASE help us get these quacks out of office! :)

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:03PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:03PM (#25472)

    Jonathan Pollard was paid to spy for a foreign country.
    Snowden gave up everything to blow the whistle on government agencies illegal activity that not even the elected politians knew about.

    This is like comparing the cops to the robbers because they both handled the loot.

    It is the usual spin.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:52PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @12:52PM (#25496)

    Israel is out of its mind to demand release of a convicted traitor as an enticement to continue their peace negotiation. As if peace in their neighborhood is something we need more than they do.

    Or rather to the point, it's Washington, Obama. and AIPAC. This sort of thing fuels antisemitism.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Thursday April 03 2014, @01:40PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday April 03 2014, @01:40PM (#25525) Journal

    I have been gratified to see so many long-held illusions torn away in the last five years, that you can get ahead if you study hard and work hard, that we live in a functioning democracy, and so on and so on. It would be excellent to see the illusion that Israel is our friend and ally torn away as well. They are a hostile power that has deeply infiltrated our government and country and use that influence to inflict terrible suffering on the Palestinians. It would be the best thing for the Palestinians, the Israelis, and peace in the Middle East in general if Israel didn't have the United States to give it cover for its crimes any more. Then they would be compelled to bury the hatchet. And to clarify, when I say "Israel" I really mean Likud and Shas, because Labor is quite reasonable by comparison.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @02:40PM (#25585)

      Well said, sir !

      One thing you forgot : the Israelis MURDERED Rachel Corrie.

      For this reason alone they are not a country which deserves
      consideration from the US.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:24PM (#25631)

      Does anyone really believe peace in the middle east is possible so long as Israel and all their opponents still both exist?

    • (Score: 1) by gishzida on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:43PM

      by gishzida (2870) on Thursday April 03 2014, @03:43PM (#25641) Journal

      Shas and the haredi parties are not in the drivers seat any more. They are in the opposition... with Labor. The last election got two new party's enough seats to give Netanyahu the PM office again. Yesh Atid led by Yair Lapid and "The Jewish Home" party led by Naftali Bennett. Bennett stands for annexing the West Bank. A plan not supported by Yesh Atid nor apparently Netanyahu.

      Annexation is a terrible idea.

  • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday April 03 2014, @05:41PM

    by RamiK (1813) on Thursday April 03 2014, @05:41PM (#25701)

    spying on high-ranking Israeli officials (much like what happened with Merkel) and Pollard's release is the hush money.

    --
    compiling...