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posted by LaminatorX on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:28PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the It-brings-on-many-changes. dept.

Shiela M. Elred writes at Discovery News that it's clear that some artistic professions are more at risk of suicide including writers, actors and painters. The suicide rate of musicians is about three times the national average, according to work by Steve Stack, director of the Center for Suicide Research and a professor at Wayne State University, whose research on occupation and suicide is the most comprehensive to date, covering a period of eight years of death certificates that list occupation. Kurt Cobain's case seems to be a classic representation of struggles that disproportionately affect artists and in Cobain's case were several red flags that Nirvana's lead singer was suicidal: a family history of suicide, bipolar disorder and drug addiction. In Cobain's case 5000 fans listened to a tape recording of Courtney Love reading the suicide note, and calling Kurt various foul names for killing himself. There has been speculation that Love's negative and angry reaction to her husband's death may have prevented copycat suicides among his fans. "There's definitely a known connection between creativity and mental illness," says Dr. Christine Moutier adding that over 90 percent of people who commit suicide had a mental illness, whether it be active or under-treated or undiagnosed.

According to Moutier many artists and people who commit suicide share character traits such as perfectionism. Common pathways in the brain lead people to both be more creative and experience mood and behavior patterns outside the norm. And real life for artists can be especially challenging says Steve Stack, director of the Center for Suicide Research. "As an occupational group, artists are more likely than others to experience labor market strains. These strains include unemployment, underemployment, client dependency (in a quest after gigs/contracts), multiple job holding and low incomes. Some work at menial jobs by day and do art at night." Combined with the higher rates of mental disorders such as manic depression and bipolar disorders, lives of artists are often volatile. "It's not to say you should squelch creativity" says Moutier, "but I do think family support of young adults excited about artistic endeavors is important."

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  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:42PM (#27117)

    Nirvana was by far the most overrated rock band in history. Kurt Cobain was nothing but a whiny proto-emo kid, and a junkie to boot. And junkies are really moody sons of bitches. It's really too bad that Courtney Love was enough of an attention whore to make a big angry scene of Kurt's death, instead of grieving in private like normal people do, apparently preventing "copycat suicides" which would have been better left to be carried out for the sake of the national gene pool's fitness. Sure, Kurt wrote catchy songs, but didn't invent the "soft-hard" song dynamic and was also a corporate rock whore -- for example the drums in "Smells like Teen Spirit" were thickened with samples.

    This says nothing about the quality of the articles, which are an interesting read; or the submission, which is good. This is merely a rant about Kurt Cobain being put up on a pedestal as some kind of saint. And if you mod this post down, you are an angry junkie.

    • (Score: 1) by Subsentient on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:53PM

      by Subsentient (1111) on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:53PM (#27122) Homepage Journal

      Oh shut up and eat a whale shit sandwich.

      --
      “Man is not a rational animal; he is a rationalizing animal.” ― Robert A. Heinlein
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Monday April 07 2014, @12:52AM

        by Nerdfest (80) on Monday April 07 2014, @12:52AM (#27230)

        Meh, he was over-rated, as was Jim Morrison, and I think they have a lot of similarities. There are better artists from the era (hell, Dave Grohl for that matter). As with Morrison, he's more famous because he's dead. It was tragic, but he's become elevated beyond his skill because of his suicide.

        As always, just my opinion.

    • (Score: 3) by hemocyanin on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:47PM

      by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:47PM (#27149) Journal

      Clearly, the wrong type of people commit suicide. Perfectionistic, artistic, creative types do -- self-righteous entitled hypercritical assholes don't. The world would be so much better if this dynamic was reversed.

      --
      Pronouns: I/You/My (ex: He is a jerk: I is a jerk; It's him: It's you; His ideas suck: My ideas suck)
      • (Score: 1) by malloc_free on Sunday April 06 2014, @11:26PM

        by malloc_free (3034) on Sunday April 06 2014, @11:26PM (#27206) Journal

        This comment belongs on a T-shirt.

      • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday April 07 2014, @01:48AM

        by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Monday April 07 2014, @01:48AM (#27251)

        I thought it might make a great bumper sticker! So I made one, unfortunately it is the size of an oversize load sign.........

        --
        Trump succeeds in making Nixon look respectable, Mission Accomplished!
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @09:58AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @09:58AM (#27358)

        (Disclaimer I'm Bipolar Type II...)

        (Severe) depression is often asoociated with really bad self-esteem. Psychopathic behaviour (more common and less physically agressive than a lot of people think) on the other side is often associated with the opposite.
        Alsor hyper empathy can really be a bitch...

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Reziac on Monday April 07 2014, @04:03AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Monday April 07 2014, @04:03AM (#27285) Homepage

      While a bit of a rant, I think the AC touches on a good point. A lot of the 'artist types' I've known are needy people whose primary desire is to be stroked, and the lifestyle lets them avoid hard reality. When they find out the real world is tougher than their little bubble prepared them for, they react badly.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by kwerle on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:52PM

    by kwerle (746) on Sunday April 06 2014, @05:52PM (#27121) Homepage

    Seriously...

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Tork on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:17PM

      by Tork (3914) on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:17PM (#27127)

      You'd rather limit the discussion to products for sale with blinky lights?

      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 1, Redundant) by umafuckitt on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:24PM

        by umafuckitt (20) on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:24PM (#27130)

        That's not what he said.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:35PM

          by Tork (3914) on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:35PM (#27157)
          Yes, it is.
          --
          Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
          • (Score: 1) by kwerle on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:55PM

            by kwerle (746) on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:55PM (#27162) Homepage

            If this site is meant/going to be a tech news site, I will continue to come here.

            If it is going to be a "whatever folks post" site, I won't bother.

            Either way is OK. I'd just like to know.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Aighearach on Sunday April 06 2014, @09:00PM

              by Aighearach (2621) on Sunday April 06 2014, @09:00PM (#27164)

              Agree 100%, and I just wanted to add... the comments on non-tech subjects are really lame and not insightful. Nerds don't have any special cultural insight into music and art, or a general interest in those things.(as a group)

              The quality of insight is the same as if you went to a music site for comments about tech. Really painfully stupid.

              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Tork on Sunday April 06 2014, @09:51PM

                by Tork (3914) on Sunday April 06 2014, @09:51PM (#27183)

                Nerds don't have any special cultural insight into music and art, or a general interest in those things.

                That is utter bullshit and if you had ever spent any time on Slashdot around the early 2000's you'd know it. In fact you just made the case for maintaining some diversity on this site. The best comments are the ones where we learn about something we had never heard about before.

                I have personally known 3 senior IT people, in different cities mind you, who had their own band and played after work. Yeah, it actually is interesting to talk about. It turns out that the definition of nerd doesn't actually contain the word 'technology'. It also turns out that many of the things that happen in the creative world also happen in the technical world. The more you know, right?

                Meanwhile, there are plenty of boring tech stories that fly by here, too. I just scroll past them. No, I don't want to talk about Linus banning some guy from working on the Linux kernel or whatever, but I also don't think this site would thrive on just my interests alone.

                Before you hit reply and tell me how wrong I am, do us and the site a favor and consider this: Not long ago Slashdot was running four stories a day about Apple, most of them involving Android in some way. Slashdot became the home of the great Smartphone Operating System Flame War. Those threads generated much higher volumes of comments and surely Slashdot earned quite a bit of ad-revenue from it. Their focus on that topic was so great that the other non-Apple stories turned into discussions about Apple anyway. (Fun little detail: random users with mod-points modded up their allies in the war, so it's not like the off-topicness was well enforced.) Today we're discussing it on a site that broke off from Slashdot, one of the reasons being 'GroupThink'. Consider the value of a little diversity on a site like this. No, we don't need to go to the extremes of reviewing Bieber's next album. And, no, this story isn't taking you down that path.

                --
                Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Joe Desertrat on Monday April 07 2014, @02:35AM

                  by Joe Desertrat (2454) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 07 2014, @02:35AM (#27264)

                  Wish I had mod points right now.
                  When I specifically want tech information I go to a site specializing in that particular sort of tech. I went to Slashdot and I come here now because I want to read discussions by tech oriented people about various issues, mostly tech oriented issues but sometimes not. Regardless of the subject, usually the discussion here is of a higher level of intelligence and thoughtfulness than you will get on any political or other news oriented site. Sometimes a bit heated yes, but posters here usually have some understanding of the true idea of an argument. Occasionally, someone genuinely knowledgeable about a subject posts something and we all learn something new.

                  ...for I have taken all knowledge to be my province... and all that.

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by LaminatorX on Sunday April 06 2014, @10:51PM

              by LaminatorX (14) <reversethis-{moc ... ta} {xrotanimal}> on Sunday April 06 2014, @10:51PM (#27197)

              As we've said repeatedly,we aim for around 70% sci-tech stories, and the remainder things of general interest to our community. There is a strong intersection between math and science aptitude and musical talent (heck, Janrinok and I both play the banjo), so this seemed like a good fit for the latter bracket. I'm sorry you didn't care for it, but frankly on a site with thousands of users you should expect a few stories here and the that you don't find interesting. While we as a community have much in common, we also have quite diverse interests and tastes.

              --
              Banjo - Fiddle - Tolkien: The Lonely Mountain String Band. lmsb.me [lmsb.me]
              • (Score: 2) by Common Joe on Monday April 07 2014, @10:34AM

                by Common Joe (33) <common.joe.0101NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday April 07 2014, @10:34AM (#27373) Journal

                As far as I'm concerned, y'all did good on this story. There's a hint of biology and statistics (science and math) in here too. I don't like all the stories and I don't expect to. Most of the time, I think you are picking the right stories even if I'm not interested in a few here and there. Keep up the good work. Keep up the good work.

              • (Score: 1) by kwerle on Monday April 07 2014, @10:03PM

                by kwerle (746) on Monday April 07 2014, @10:03PM (#27820) Homepage

                My gentle suggestion:
                Find yourselves a music site. Or fire one up.

            • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Fry on Monday April 07 2014, @01:42AM

              by Fry (642) on Monday April 07 2014, @01:42AM (#27250)

              - ignore the articles that don't interest you

              - submit more interesting stuff

              /broken record

              • (Score: 1) by kwerle on Monday April 07 2014, @09:33PM

                by kwerle (746) on Monday April 07 2014, @09:33PM (#27803) Homepage

                That's a lot like saying:
                - ignore the parts of the internet that don't interest you
                - write more interesting stuff and post it

                Just doesn't scale all that well. That's why I'm hoping to find a good tech news site - so that I don't have to sift the entire internet. If this site isn't going to be that site, that makes me sad - but I'll get over it. And I suspect a lot of others will get over it, too. Won't leave much, I think.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Theophrastus on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:32PM

    by Theophrastus (4044) on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:32PM (#27134)

    art, culture, celebrity: pressure to be creative in an active social setting

    pressure to be creative in an active social setting: drugs

    drugs, pressure to be creative: high suicide rates

    this boring syllogism probably explains 68.3 percent of observations ..maybe

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 10 2014, @04:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 10 2014, @04:33AM (#41480)

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  • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:46PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:46PM (#27136)

    It's lunchtime, you're hungry
    We know how you feel
    Your mouth wants Little Caesars
    And your wallet wants a deal
    Four slices of Deep Deep Dish and a soda are for you
    Hot and Ready for five bucks
    And this is what you do
    Bite bite, sip sip
    That's what makes the combo
    Bite bite, sip sip
    Do the Deep Deep Dish Combo Mambo
    For lunch

    Pizza pizza.

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by VLM on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:59PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 06 2014, @06:59PM (#27139)

    Theory: Modern culture demands separation of science and art. Including separation of the very basic concepts of scientific thought. Self medication may not be the ideal treatment program. Combine two, you get cordwood stacks of dead musicians.

    Experiment: Find another population thats equally required for cultural reasons to be skeptical of modern science, medications, treatment. How bout, creationists? Then run the numbers on them. Evangelical religious leaders as proxy for creationist as proxy for being anti-science? Its a tricky one.

    Another experiment: Find another creative occupation thats not unusually skeptical about science, medicine, etc. How about computer programming? Not startup social CRUD app #1235135 but backend or embedded devs? I bet their stats are lower.

  • (Score: 2) by hankwang on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:06PM

    by hankwang (100) on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:06PM (#27141) Homepage

    No.

    Oh wait...

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:07PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 06 2014, @07:07PM (#27142)

    "As an occupational group, ... are more likely than others to experience labor market strains. These strains include unemployment, underemployment, client dependency (in a quest after gigs/contracts), multiple job holding and low incomes. Some work at menial jobs by day"

    Ever heard of STEAM aka STEM with Arts and Music (The M being Math/Music)? I've even seen the tee shirts. Well... that description sounds a lot like a bio grad, or any hard science guy who can't get a job in academentia as a lab tech monkey or a rare good job outside the biz.

    Its actually not all that bad of description of most programmer / IT work outside of NYC/SF. Other than the complete lack of heroin and groupies its about the same.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by ilPapa on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:14PM

    by ilPapa (2366) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 06 2014, @08:14PM (#27155) Journal

    Financial concerns are a contributing factor to more than 60% of all suicides.

    And the increased suicide rate is happening in other industries besides musicians, by the way.

    Poverty sucks. Debt sucks. All but less than 1% of the population is seeing a decline in their standard of living, even while the economy shows growth. Further, despite the growth in GDP, and the growth in incomes of the top percent, the median income is dropping, which should give you some indication of just how much ground the bottom 99% has lost in the past 30 years. Further, this divide is happening worldwide.

    Eventually though, history tells us that people will be exploited for only so long before they start breaking the china and sharpening the guillotines, which is why we're seeing a mad increase in domestic surveillance and the militarization of local police departments. Unfortunately for the 1%, the police are also seeing declining standards of living, despite the efforts of red state governors to keep police salaries out of their austerity plans.

    We're in for an interesting decade, coming up.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by sgleysti on Monday April 07 2014, @12:29AM

    by sgleysti (56) on Monday April 07 2014, @12:29AM (#27221)

    Just A Thought -- Gnarls Barkley

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVE75VG90X0 [youtube.com]

     

    I think the lyrics, the way he delivers them, are brilliant:

     

    All I want is your understanding
    As in the small act of affection
    "Why is this my life?"
    Is almost everybody's question

     

    And I've tried
    Everything but suicide
    But it's crossed my mind

     

    I prefer peace
    Wouldn't have to have one worldly possession
    But essentially I'm an animal
    So just what do I do with all the aggression?

     

    Well I've tried
    Everything but suicide
    But it's crossed my mind

     

    Life is a one-way street, and if you could paint it
    I'd draw myself going in the right direction
    So I go all the way - like I really really know -
    But the truth is I'm only guessin'

     

    And I've tried
    Everything but suicide
    Ooh but it's crossed my mind
    Just a thought

     

    It's even dark in the daytime
    It's not just good - it's Great Depression
    When I was lost I even found myself
    Looking in the gun's direction

     

    And so I've tried
    Everything but suicide
    But yes - it's crossed my mind
    But I'm fine

  • (Score: 1) by ChocolateTeacup on Monday April 07 2014, @08:04AM

    by ChocolateTeacup (1121) <chrispza@yahoo.co.uk> on Monday April 07 2014, @08:04AM (#27326)

    Smells like Teen Spirit - The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc [youtube.com]

  • (Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Tuesday April 08 2014, @08:41AM

    by WizardFusion (498) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 08 2014, @08:41AM (#28030) Journal

    I blame the RIAA