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posted by n1 on Sunday May 04 2014, @12:39PM   Printer-friendly
from the anything-to-save-money dept.

In a remarkably uncritical article, The Verge covers how loyalty card data is being used to search for statistical pricing advantages. Loyalty card data is more than just a person's shopping history, but also who they are, how old they are, their income level, their debts, the number of people in their family, where they live, what their religion is, etc. This unprecedented amount of knowledge about the lives of customers as well as their purchasing habits lets supermarkets model the effect of individual pricing changes on a store's total profitability with a 95% accuracy rate.

The Verge calls this use of Big Data techniques "placing the customer at the center of their pricing strategies." But it is really more about exploiting the fact that customers lack the ability for reciprocal analysis of all the merchants available to them. Nobody has the time to survey the inventory and pricing of all the supermarkets in their area on a regular basis. What's worse is that by using loyalty cards, customers are voluntarily giving the supermarkets this advantage over them. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "They who would give up essential Privacy, to purchase a little temporary Discount, deserve neither Privacy nor Discounts."

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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:19PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:19PM (#39449)

    If we could order our groceries online (which Publix, the big chain in Florida was doing as a test back in 2002) the grocers would need less store square footage, employees, etc. but... when two or more players got into the market, the customer would be able to comparison shop without the penalty of driving to multiple stores.

    If you're all Ninja about it now, you can whip out the shopping app on your phone, but even if you have the extra time and patience to do that in the store, is it worth your time to cross the street to the competition just to save $5 on a $200 grocery bill?

    The way Publix did it, they ran trucks from the distribution centers direct to the customers, no retail location involvement at all. It was super convenient with stored shopping lists, just check or uncheck what you need or don't. I imagine that also cut down on suggestive sell / impulse buys. Since cancelling the in-home delivery program, Publix picked up on the BOGO and other pricing trends that are overtly manipulative of the customer. I hate it, but the other stores have worse product selection and higher prices... this area is ripe for a "good" chain to deliver value to the customers.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by tnt118 on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:32PM

      by tnt118 (3925) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:32PM (#39454)

      "is it worth your time to cross the street to the competition just to save $5 on a $200 grocery bill?"

      Anecdotal: back in the day my father would go to three different stores (not necessarily on the same day, but planned out through the week), knowing which had the best prices on everything. He had a mind for that kind of stuff though and when done properly I'm sure he saved over $50 per week... quite worthwhile when money is tight.

      This is also the man who ordered a cheeseburger without the cheese at McDonald's because they were on sale, and the regular hamburgers were not.

      --
      I think I like it here.
      • (Score: 1) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:30PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:30PM (#39474)

        Oh, Publix shows on every bill what "you saved today," and without trying, I get 10 to 15% "off" my bill every trip, sometimes as high as 40% if I'm hitting the sale items hard. But, that's compared to their "normal" prices.

        We probably save $50 per week by the simple step of buying our fruit, vegetables and meats from a competing store (that only sells those) called "Freshfield Farms", we spend $100 per week there that would run about $150 for the same items at Publix. Now, are we really saving any money? At Freshfield Farms, we get premium orange juice for $4/64oz, instead of not-from-concentrate for $3/59oz from Publix - the premium OJ at Publix runs more like $4.50/59oz, so almost $5/64. Freshfield also sells organic produce for about the same price Publix charges for the non-organic "equivalents," so, again, we are getting a better product at about the same or slightly lower prices, all in all, if we'd step down market and buy orange juice from concentrate and the mainstream produce from Publix, we'd be spending a little less money overall.

        What I notice about the "customer loyalty" stores around here (the ones that push those cards at you every time you shop there), is that they have fewer customers, higher prices overall, and less appealing selection - my conclusion is that they must be extracting more profit from every customer that walks in, because otherwise I can't imagine how they stay in business. It doesn't take any inside information to look at the parking lots and see consistently 1/3 the cars in the "customer loyalty" stores compared to Publix.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Angry Jesus on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:13PM

          by Angry Jesus (182) on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:13PM (#39491)

          When I lived in Boston I noticed the same thing. The local (no-card) "Market Basket" (formerly Demoulas to oldtimers) supermarkets are wiping the floor with the various loyalty-card chains. Both higher quality (for example, top-notch supermarket sushi in the deli) and cheaper prices. Near where I lived, there was a stop-n-shop literally in front of the market basket but every friday night the stop-n-shop was a ghost-town and the market basket around back was packed. It warmed my heart.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:21PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:21PM (#39450)

    It is a shame that competitive factors and intelligent shoppers were insufficient to rapidly put each and every one business that put dangerous practice into play out of business.

    Any database you are in, can and will be used against you!

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday May 04 2014, @05:55PM

      by frojack (1554) on Sunday May 04 2014, @05:55PM (#39537) Journal

      Most people find a bigger risk carrying wads of cash around just to avoid being tracked at some level.

      You don't need loyalty cards to be tracked. A simple credit card is sufficient. Everything run through the register gets sent to the computer, both to the inventory management system and also to a buyer's record. As soon as you hand them a credit card, your name goes onto the record, they know who you are, what you bought, when, and how much you paid.

      I've received product recall notifications from Costco, and Home Depot on things I purchased months earlier. Kind of creepy. The stores bill it as a service. Merchants have always had the right to record who bought what. Computers just make it pretty much automatic.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by zsau on Monday May 05 2014, @01:52AM

        by zsau (2642) on Monday May 05 2014, @01:52AM (#39631)

        At one point anyone had the right to use a vehicle on public roads. Then a licensing system came about. Why? Because it became easy to get dangerous vehicles and the government wanted to exercise some level of oversight.

        At one point, merchants had the right to record who bought what. Why shouldn't regulations get introduced now that computers are making it pretty much automatic/way too easy? (and therefore widespread and, as you said, "kind of creepy").

        When things change, the fact that something else hasn't changed yet isn't an argument against changing that other thing.

        • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday May 05 2014, @06:53AM

          by frojack (1554) on Monday May 05 2014, @06:53AM (#39697) Journal

          If you are waiting for regulations to curb merchant data gathering, I'm here to tell you that ship sailed and its not coming back.

          Government is a partner in this data collection and is not going to step in and snuff out their source of information.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 1) by zsau on Monday May 05 2014, @10:55AM

            by zsau (2642) on Monday May 05 2014, @10:55AM (#39727)

            That is (on the face of it) true, but a complete different matter.

            Still, if we stand around and say "it isn't going to happen", we're just giving them the power they want. Remember, you learn to say "it isn't going to happen" from media operating according to the same "giant database" rules. Things do change, radically and suddenly; but for things to change, you need to talk about it, so people think "maybe there's just half a chance it could be possible if...". Talk is cheap but it's an investment that pays for itself sevenfold before breakfast, and there's plenty of time for giving up once you're dead.

    • (Score: 2) by davester666 on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:05PM

      by davester666 (155) on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:05PM (#39539)

      And it's going to get worse, as supermarkets roll out iBeacon [where you get to opt-in to the store getting to track you as you walk through the store and link that with what you actually purchased. This will be gold to them.

      And they can kind of do this with anyone right now, albeit less accurately, without any 'opt-in' by just tracking the bluetooth and/or wifi signal from your phone [most people just leave them on all the time]. It's making me seriously consider switching back to wired headphones so I can turn bluetooth off all the time.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:59PM (#39548)

        *Voice from counter speaker*

        "Hi davester666. Our store must apologize to you today as we are sold out of your typical purchases of Trojans and recent copies of Hustler. For your convenience we will suggest to your wife when she comes in as usual on Wednesday that she pick these up for you. We hope you appreciate this service and thank you for your customer loyalty."

        And to think, you were only stopping in with the Reverend to pick up some things for the church cook out. ( Or substitute in any other relatively embarrassing situations. )

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:02PM

        by edIII (791) on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:02PM (#39549)

        This is why I leave my phone behind. I realized it was beyond ridiculous to be a slave to that little piece of shit.

        Why do I need my phone in the store at all? I'm not doing price comparisons, and no website (AFAIK) offers current pricing on grocery stores. I even called one up one day to find out of they had a product and asked the price. They refused, and I said I would not be visiting them then.

        I realized that my personal time is very valuable to me and I don't want people trying to make me look at some instant message, or email, or talk to somebody at work. It's my personal time, it's my day off, and I no longer take my phone with me at all. I can check my messages when I get back to the car.

        So more often than not, and largely influenced by privacy concerns, I am leaving my little personal tracking device behind. Starting to evaluate whether I truly need it on my person going to various places, I determined that I really did not. A trip to the car is the worst case scenario, and I can usually get back with people within an hour or two anyways which is sufficient.

        Defeating the loyalty card bullshit is the easiest thing in the world to do. My bank is inside the grocery store, and ATMs are everywhere. Just take a $100 cash out and make up a random phone number and share it with everyone. I don't care about the points, rewards, or gas. I've been using this number now since that BS started, along with like 50 other people at this point. I think we blended the data pretty well.

        Of course that doesn't even matter anymore. I've noticed grocery stores getting rid of the loyalty card programs and I honestly wonder if it was because somebody did an analysis and determined the data was shit and not worth it. I also suspect it was from people bypassing the system by asking for a new loyalty card at purchase time and then just throwing it away and not activating it online.

        Interestingly enough, I noticed that at least one Albertsons has pulled all the automated checkout lines out and has started forcing people to go through the lines again. Guess what is hanging out around your legs now? New hardware behind glass that I'm betting is akin to iBeacon and is scanning for identifying information from your phone. There was a brand name on the hardware but I don't recall what it was at the moment. Just that it was very curious why it was down around your legs with enough field of view to get most people all the way up to the hips. For Albertsons the loyalty card program is over and there are no more automated checkouts (sample size of one I admit on that) and they have moved to something new.

        You want to stop this shit, and truly stop it, just go back to cash and leave your phone in the car. People here worried about having cash on you is ridiculous. The risk of losing it or being mugged is vastly lower than the risk of you having your privacy removed and being abused by corporations. Who is going to cost your more money within 20 years? The mugger, or the corporation trying to game the system, leave you with no comparison data, and extract the highest possible amounts from you?

        As for the phone... just how addicted are you to your phone? How important is it for you to check Facebook every 5 minutes? Is your job so critical that on your off time you need to be reachable at all times? There's a happy medium and I don't think becoming effectively cyborgs to be tracked and see some social networking display at all times is healthy. If you can't give up that ability, and I'm in IT too so I know, then a much larger question needs to be answered that's more important than a loyalty card.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by tnt118 on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:22PM

    by tnt118 (3925) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:22PM (#39452)

    I used to be able to go to a store that did not use a customer loyalty card where I used to live, but now I don't have that option. From what I remember prices there were pretty much identical to the post-discount prices of the other stores. I always figured they were just trying to gorge folks who didn't have a card (lazy, one-time shoppers, out-of-towners, etc).

    I know places like Target can still build a really good profile on you just from your credit card, but I'd guess the regional supermarket chains aren't quite as sophisticated just yet.

    --
    I think I like it here.
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:58PM (#39502)

      I always figured they were just trying to gorge folks who didn't have a card (lazy, one-time shoppers, out-of-towners, etc).

      They're essentially just charging you extra for anonymity. You pay an extra 1-2% not to use their loyalty card. You pay a little extra not to use a credit card. As long as you keep that in mind, that it's not a discount for using the card, but a surcharge not to, then it's a fair way for the consumer to choose whether or not to sell his personal purchasing data.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @12:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @12:41AM (#39618)

      The old solution to the customer loyalty card so that you don't get tracked is for you to switch cards with the person behind you during the transaction. If everyone does that every once in a while it will confuse the stores and make it more difficult for them to accurately track you.

  • (Score: 1) by Oligonicella on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:48PM

    by Oligonicella (4169) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:48PM (#39458)

    Are there actually places where you cannot simply walk into a grocery or supermarket and shop? Are there places where you cannot do this without a loyalty card? I have yet to find any about the country. Much of this seems to be people getting their hackles up about things they find disturbing for others who don't.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by tnt118 on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:52PM

      by tnt118 (3925) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:52PM (#39460)

      If you are willing to pay the 5-20% surcharge on some items, absolutely. Some items can be BOGO with the card, so you'd be paying double.

      --
      I think I like it here.
      • (Score: 1) by multisync on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:43PM

        by multisync (4002) on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:43PM (#39499)

        If you are willing to pay the 5-20% surcharge ...

        An easy way around that is a few minutes of careful listening near the check out counters. It doesn't take long before you hear someone divulging their phone number for the convenience of not having to produce a loyalty card. Just memorize that number for your own use at that store.

        • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:31PM

          by TheGratefulNet (659) on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:31PM (#39516)

          "hi, can I talk to jenny, please?"

          --
          "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
        • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:26PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:26PM (#39558) Homepage

          I do this all the time with my grandma's phone number, and I'm sure anybody who sees the data is wondering why a 90-pound 90 year-old lady is buying enough booze every weekend to level an elephant.

          However -- Some stores here have prevented that, and have been doing so for years. The Ralph's chain is one in America that does. I don't know how exactly they do it, whether or not they tie the Ralph's club account to a name or card or whatever, but what I do know is that entering the phone number of another Ralph's club member doesn't work.

          Bastards.

          • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday May 05 2014, @05:34AM

            by anubi (2828) on Monday May 05 2014, @05:34AM (#39679) Journal

            Speaking of Ralph's, I was lucky enough to find one of those loyalty cards a few years ago laying on the sidewalk. I have been using it ever since. Sure, maybe someone else is getting "points" or whatever, but at least I can shop there without getting gouged so hard. Most of the time, I go to Wal-Mart because the closer grocery stores want to force "the card" on me. I know that in their way of thinking, getting me to adopt their card is far more important to their business model than whether I go to their store or the Wal-Mart.
             
              Once some businesses get large enough, customers are just statistics, no longer a necessary ingredient of the business model. The Waltons have made a fortune accepting the customers that other businesses no longer wanted.

            --
            "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
            • (Score: 1) by aclarke on Monday May 05 2014, @12:53PM

              by aclarke (2049) on Monday May 05 2014, @12:53PM (#39754) Homepage

              Unless you're paying with cash, they still know exactly who you are now.

    • (Score: 1) by Scruffy on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:54PM

      by Scruffy (1087) on Sunday May 04 2014, @01:54PM (#39461)
      I know this isn't universal but in my part of Canada the difficulty lies in the fact that many discounts only apply if you use your loyalty card. For many, knocking ~10% off your grocery bill is pretty good incentive to give up the data.
      --
      1087 is a lucky prime.
    • (Score: 2) by Angry Jesus on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:06PM

      by Angry Jesus (182) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:06PM (#39464)

      > Are there actually places where you cannot simply walk into a grocery or supermarket and shop?

      These are loyalty cards, not club membership cards.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 04 2014, @08:12PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday May 04 2014, @08:12PM (#39565)

      One store around here "Harris Teeter" is especially bad with the "Smart Shopper" specials - we went there for a weekend shopping trip, and about 1/3 of what we wanted, specials be damned, was "on special" that week - and the "discounts" were deep, up to 50% off, probably averaging 30% off for the special items, in other words, about 10% of our total bill, or $20 on $200.

      The reality of it is, the cashiers keep a card under the counter and if you don't have one, forgot yours, or whatever, they'll use their card instead and you still get the "discounts." If they didn't, I'd have a really hard time even considering shopping there because the other reality of it is: most of the time, those "discount" prices are actually normal prices that were inflated so they can be put "on sale" some of the time.

      Part of me would really like to see the "free market" lose a little of its freedom. Merchants should be allowed to set their prices, but this whiplash 50% up and down swings every week is just insulting to me as a customer, and also prevents intelligent shopping among competitors. I would propose that merchants can drop their prices whenever and however they want, but any price increase that is more than 1% per day (since the last change), or 25% in a single step, should be taxed at 50% of whatever the increase is above that limit. This would include "half off" sales, so if you want to put an item on "half off" sale, fine, do it, but to get back to normal price, you'll need to ease it up in increments over the next 2 months, or share some of the revenue from the price increase in taxes. I can see this applying to fuel suppliers as well as grocers and other retailers.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by khallow on Monday May 05 2014, @02:30AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 05 2014, @02:30AM (#39645) Journal

        Part of me would really like to see the "free market" lose a little of its freedom.

        Do you have a reason why you think that? 50% whiplash insulting to you as a customer? Then don't shop there. And give a customer service rep an earful while you're at it.

        I would propose that merchants can drop their prices whenever and however they want, but any price increase that is more than 1% per day (since the last change), or 25% in a single step, should be taxed at 50% of whatever the increase is above that limit.

        I have a proposal too. Do nothing. If it isn't broke, then don't fix it. How will a regulatory agency enforce this sort of rule? They need information and the power to punish. Should they force every retailer and grocerer to keep a database of all price changes to all products at all stores for the past seven years? That's a great way to filter out small competitors who can't afford the IT overhead.

        My view is that information asymmetry is the reward we give these businesses for providing the services they do. Keep in mind that the sole job of a Harris Teeter is to provide groceries. They should know more about the business than customers who casually shop and don't put the effort into acquiring information about the grocery market.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday May 10 2014, @03:32PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday May 10 2014, @03:32PM (#41595)

          The issue is, this isn't a capitalist utopia with an infinite number of sources to choose from, all at equal low cost to access. It's the same reason people are up at arms with Comcast, and were so with AT&T and Standard Oil in the past.

          Just because the 4 players in the market all play the same games doesn't make the games right, and doesn't mean the games benefit the customers, or even the system as a whole.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by computersareevil on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:17PM

    by computersareevil (749) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:17PM (#39468)

    I get a new card every 6 months or so from the two stores I frequent. I LIE THROUGH MY TEETH. I tell them I'm much older or younger than I really am. I tell them I live in Hollywood 90210 usually. My name is Ronald McDonald, George Bush, Ron Jeremy, Ralph Nader, or Richard Head. I get the benefit of the discounts while polluting their data!

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by TheGratefulNet on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:25PM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:25PM (#39472)

      there should be 'clubs' where people exchange cards (randomly) every few days.

      that would pollute the data, too. I'd love to see people mixing up their cards just for this purpose.

      data collection is pretty evil and anything we could do to fuck them up is a good deed for mankind, in general.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:52PM

        by mrcoolbp (68) <mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org> on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:52PM (#39482) Homepage

        I used to work at one. Most have a button on the register. Just say "can you scan a card for me?" And they'll happily use the store's card. Problem solved.

        --
        (Score:1^½, Radical)
        • (Score: 2) by computersareevil on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:03PM

          by computersareevil (749) on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:03PM (#39485)

          Some will, some won't. Plus the register cards are probably excluded from data collection. Simpler and more-damaging to have my own cards that pollute the data.

          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:01PM

            by frojack (1554) on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:01PM (#39538) Journal

            Most people are more concerned with their privacy rather than damaging the data.
            You will never be a big enough minority to have any effect on their data collection.

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:33PM

          by TheGratefulNet (659) on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:33PM (#39518)

          one time I didn't have that discount card with me and there were a lot of items that were on 'sale' that I didn't want to pay full price for. I tried to get them to just give me the card but they insisted I fill out the form before scanning it. in the past, I could say 'I'm in a hurry' and they'd just scan the damned card and let you be on their way, but some jobsworths won't let you slide on their watch.

          --
          "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 2) by fliptop on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:04PM

        by fliptop (1666) on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:04PM (#39550) Journal

        I'd love to see people mixing up their cards just for this purpose.

        Won't work where I live. Kroger sells gasoline, and you can get a substantial savings (up to $0.50 off per gallon) if you accumulate enough points on your loyalty card.

        Of course, it reminds me of my grandfather, who'd waste dollars to save pennies. He'd drive 60 miles out of his way to save $0.03 on a gallon of gas, not even thinking about how much gasoline he's burning to get there and back. Kind of the same thing w/ Kroger, except it's spending on groceries instead of miles.

        I only buy stuff at Kroger that the other stores don't sell, like artichoke hearts, unsweetened applesauce, etc. They're priced too high on just about everything.

        --
        Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
      • (Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday May 07 2014, @12:25PM

        by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday May 07 2014, @12:25PM (#40498)

        Yeah, everyone could put their loyalty card in a bowl, then pick them out at random. You could call it the "Swindle Mongers Club" or come up with a suitable portmanteau.

    • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:05PM

      by Snotnose (1623) on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:05PM (#39488)

      That works until you use the credit card you've had for 20 years to pay for your stuff.

      When this BS first started I had a friend that didn't care, so I used his name and phone number on my reward card. After about a year they started matching the CC with the reward card, and made my efforts for naught.

      --
      Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
      • (Score: 2) by davester666 on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:33PM

        by davester666 (155) on Sunday May 04 2014, @06:33PM (#39542)

        It's not for naught! Now they think you and your friend are more than friends...especially if you've bought condoms.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:07PM (#39505)

      They don't really care about your name or address. Those are useful if they want to send you some paper mail, or sell a list of people who buy ice cream, but not really for in-store purposes.

      They care about repeat purchase data. When they put brand X of product Y on sale, do people buy more X, or do they just switch from brand Z to brand Y? What's the price point where people switch from steak to chicken? They're interested in separating variations in foot traffic from variations in demand. Did they sell more beer last week because there was an event across the street and got a bunch of one-time customers, or are their long-term customers buying more beer?

      They might care about income and economic demographics, but they'll get that from the credit/debit card you use with the loyalty card.

      • (Score: 2) by computersareevil on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:15PM

        by computersareevil (749) on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:15PM (#39508)

        I forgot to mention before, but will now for your and snotnose's benefit, that I basically always use cash in grocery and many other stores.

        I've been aware of the "big data" problem for a long, long time. Long before it was fashionable (does that mean I'm a hipster?). I donned my tinfoil hat in the 80's. My real name returns nothing on google or any other egregious privacy violation (aka "social" site). My pseudonyms return little to nothing.

        • (Score: 1) by zsau on Tuesday May 06 2014, @05:45AM

          by zsau (2642) on Tuesday May 06 2014, @05:45AM (#40037)

          Do you ever buy stuff online? How do you avoid using a credit card for that?

          • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday May 06 2014, @12:47PM

            by urza9814 (3954) on Tuesday May 06 2014, @12:47PM (#40126) Journal

            Not the OP so I dunno what *he* does, but I've bought stuff online with pre-paid cards before, which you can purchase with cash in nearly any grocery store. Some retailers won't accept them, as I think they run as a debit card, but most do. Pretty sure Visa ones have fewer such issues than MasterCard. Most grocery stores around here also stock gift cards for a lot of online stores (Amazon, Ebay, iTunes...or even somewhere like BestBuy which could still be used online) so that should work too depending on who you're buying from.

            If you want to get REALLY sneaky you can probably order stuff delivered to a nearby friend or neighbor's address, then tell the delivery company to hold it at their facility...that way they can't even correlate by address! I've never tried that one, but I know the UPS app lets me have them hold packages without any delivery attempt, and I've never had them verify my address, only my name...although name and city is probably enough for the retailers to build a profile -- unless you're John Smith from NYC.

        • (Score: 1) by zsau on Tuesday May 06 2014, @06:31AM

          by zsau (2642) on Tuesday May 06 2014, @06:31AM (#40048)

          Btw, my previous post was an honest question, not rhetorical pointscoring. I say this explicitly to avoid any miscommunication. I apologise for the two short posts in a row.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @04:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @04:55PM (#39847)

      Jim Kirk
      1701 Starport Way
      Spaceport, IA

  • (Score: 2) by internetguy on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:40PM

    by internetguy (235) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:40PM (#39478)

    Where I live there are two home improvement stores across the street from each other. Both stores have similar pricing and a few things high/lower than their competitor. Both stores are the same except one has more modern conveniences than the other. Most people shop at the older store because you can turn right at the traffic light rather than the other store which forces you to make a left turn. Location is winning out in this case.

    --
    Sig: I must be new here.
    • (Score: 2) by Angry Jesus on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:58PM

      by Angry Jesus (182) on Sunday May 04 2014, @02:58PM (#39484)

      That's the thing about Big Data analysis - the system captures the effect of site-specific idiosyncrasies like that and how they interact with pricing because it is implicit in the data. In your example they would know where the customers live so the data will reflect that people who come from one direction are more likely to pay higher prices before defecting to the other store because of the convenience factor. It scary how much of an advantage this gives to the stores over their customers.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:12PM

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Sunday May 04 2014, @03:12PM (#39490) Homepage
        +1 very insightful

        And quite worrying, as that almost certainly goes on.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 1) by Dr Ippy on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:40PM

    by Dr Ippy (3973) on Sunday May 04 2014, @04:40PM (#39519)

    I think you'll find that asymmetric is the approved spelling.

    "Assymetric" is probably something to do with measuring donkeys.

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    This signature intentionally left blank.
    • (Score: 2) by n1 on Sunday May 04 2014, @05:35PM

      by n1 (993) on Sunday May 04 2014, @05:35PM (#39532) Journal

      Thank you for pointing that out. I take full responsibility for missing that during the edit. It has been changed now.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @02:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @02:53AM (#39652)

    Hey if you live in the bay area. Check out Foodmaxx. Low margin sales and it is a union shop as well as a private company. Fuck safeway. They cost the state more money because they sell food at high margins to food stamp recipients.

  • (Score: 2) by crutchy on Monday May 05 2014, @07:30AM

    by crutchy (179) on Monday May 05 2014, @07:30AM (#39703) Homepage Journal

    nobody is forced to use loyalty cards

    if you feel the price of invasion of privacy exceeds the benefit of a discount, you can cut them up or refuse them from the get go

    the free market is kinda good like that

  • (Score: 1) by samwichse on Monday May 05 2014, @06:03PM

    by samwichse (3189) on Monday May 05 2014, @06:03PM (#39878) Journal

    867-5309

    Just add your area code to that number, get the bullshit-card discount associated with it, and pay with cash.

    There's an 867-5309 phone number associated with every store I've ever seen with a bullshit card program.

  • (Score: 1) by _NSAKEY on Wednesday May 07 2014, @01:08AM

    by _NSAKEY (16) on Wednesday May 07 2014, @01:08AM (#40392)

    Should probably post this as AC, but to hell with it.

    I keep multiple cards for grocery stores I visit regularly, and let each store have around 3 partial profiles on me. The cards are ditched roughly annually (Naturally, the little forms you're supposed to use to fill out the info get tossed in the trash bin.). Some of the store employees know what's up, and will either scan their own card or a random new one from the pile if I happen to forget to take my cards to the store.

    At other places, I refuse to sign up for loyalty cards when asked, and cite Target's hacking as my reason. There was one girl at a book store (Of all places) who didn't seem literate enough to know what that meant, but she also didn't understand my joke about how the pocket copy of The Constitution I was buying was being paid for in cash because otherwise I would probably be placed on some secret list for subversives. Mostly, I didn't want to pay a few dollars to save 10 cents on a $2.00 book that I was buying from a book store chain that I almost never visit. As I implied earlier, she was a bit slow, and I wasn't left with the impression that she would understand that answer either. So, she got the troll answer.

    Another time at a drug store, the woman at the counter wanted to see my driver's license so she could fill out my loyalty card application. She didn't expect me to put my wallet back in my pocket and walk away like nothing happened, and the look on her face (Caught out of the corner of my eye) was priceless.