From Ars Technica:
Imagine you just purchased a shiny new wireless router from Amazon, only to discover that the product doesn't work as you anticipated. To vent frustration and perhaps help others avoid the same mistake, you leave a negative product review-but some of your claims ultimately turn out to be incorrect or misleading. Now the company's attorneys want to sue you for your "illegal campaign to damage, discredit, defame, and libel" it. Are you going down in flames? Or can you say what you want on the Internet? As with many areas of law, the answers are nuanced and complicated. Our primer, however, will help you avoid the obvious pitfalls.
The article contains advice from defamation lawyer Lee Berlik and free speech attorney Paul Alan Levy.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday May 15 2014, @07:56AM
If you have trouble with a produce, just say so in the review, without resorting to nasty verbiage. Do read the manual before you lash out, and maybe call the help line. Take Amazon up on their promise to make things right, they usually are pretty good about that.
I ordered some parts Via Amazon that were from two different companies in the far east. The heavier item showed up in 4 days, the very light weight one showed up in 4 weeks. Both were supposed to be airmail.
I had to order these same repair parts on three different occasions to service three different machines, and each time the shipping was the same, one fast, one slow. So it wasn't a fluke.
Fed up, I posted a review of the actual components, (both were satisfactory), and mentioned the the horrible shipping record of the slow merchant. I got email back from that manufacturer offering to pay me $200 and free shipping on my next order if I would remove my review. I ignored them. Never heard another word.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by evilviper on Thursday May 15 2014, @08:06AM
You should have contacted Amazon customer support about it. They have a form specifically for such issues.
I had a pushy seller offering extra free products in exchange for removing negative feedback, so I reported the incident. Amazon doesn't let you know the results of their investigation and enforcement actions, but that seller did completely disappear from Amazon for about a month, and reappeared with a much smaller catalog of products.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 3, Funny) by evilviper on Thursday May 15 2014, @08:08AM
And for the record, I've never gotten a "manual" when I have purchased "produce"...
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2) by jimshatt on Thursday May 15 2014, @08:46AM
(Score: 4, Funny) by everdred on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:58PM
No joke; I have. I actually once had a pomegranate that came with a small printed booklet on how to open it and extract the seeds.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday May 15 2014, @12:48PM
Yes, sir, gladly. Here's a fact:
Is expressing an opinion (signalled as such) no longer allowed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by RaffArundel on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:12PM
Well, from the summary:
So, I guess the question is - are you incorrect/misleading?
Actually the REAL questions are - what country did you post from? What country is the manufacturer in? How big a jack-hole are they? Can they get you in a sympathetic (for them) court? Is it worth their time to go after you? Why don't they just lie and DMCA your comment for some stupid reason and make the site pull down the review?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:46PM
Can you prove that indeed I don't hold the expressed opinion? Because if you can't, then the fact I have an opinion is correct. Also, the fact that I stated for the very beginning it is an opinion makes invalid any claim I'd try to mislead.
Heck, what about: "FSM - bless His noodly appendages - told me so about you and your product, last night in my dreams. As such, I firmly believe it. Are you trying to stop exercising my right to spread the word of my Deity?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Interesting) by RaffArundel on Thursday May 15 2014, @05:29PM
Very good questions - and if it were up to me, I'd call you a twit for disagreeing or brilliant for agreeing, because I recognize what an opinion actually is. However, as this story indicates, people get stupid when money is involved.
I'm not sure how to judge opinions when it comes to misleading others, but I'd say it has to do with intent. Let's strap on some skis and hit the slipperly-slope for a moment with "I believe that c0lo is a [pick a wide range of questionable moral and/or criminal things]" in a public forum and your boss/sig-other/whoever reads it. If I know it is false, and placed with the pretense to attack you - then no amount of "well, it is just an opinion" negates the intent to mislead.
Actually, you just proved my second point - FSM aside, Scientology isn't a religion in some places, so they don't have the right to scam people under that protection. So, no, at least in some places hiding behind "opinion" or "belief" doesn't protect you from making statements you know are incorrect or misleading (you are lying, you know it, and it is intentional) - you are liable.
The question is actually around intent - and yeah, I'd have to prove you did it maliciously (at least here in the US) if I didn't have enough resources ($$$) to silence your opinion in other ways.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday May 16 2014, @03:11AM
Proving intent is a bitch, and I'm glad it is so.
If the society allows the expression of any opinions (even with the condition to be stated as such), then "intent" is moot - I can't be compelled to state whatever intent (the accuser needs to demonstrate it) and good luck to her/him in trying to demonstrate beyond doubt a certain intent.
If the society does not allow the expression of all opinions, then you'll have to navigate carefully in what you are saying (such societies are likely to be in various degree of misalignment with Art 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org]) in which case "intent" may be a low priority in the list of your worries
If you make clear "It's an opinion" and qualify your statements with "I think that..."/"I believe that...", then I can do nothing against you and I'll do nothing (because it's a waste of time). Of course, I'll do enough (usually by my behavior) to at least cast a doubt on your opinions or beliefs; in most of the cases, I don't need to do anything more special than what I'm doing every day; on the long run, it pays to be moral, even if only from a pragmatical PoV.
Point: nowadays, I don't consider "I believe that c0lo is a [pick a wide range of questionable moral and/or criminal things]" posted in public as threat to me. It wasn't always so, though: I grew under one of the East Europe communist regimes (under which you'd have to be very careful with what you say: wrong words to wrong persons and you'd have troubles even to stay alive).
That was a pure intellectual exercise (testing the limits of the system). Personally, I'd never use such an approach, because:
* I'm not wasting my time expressing opinions just for the sake of denigrating someone
* I don't need the "divine intervention and/or authority" excuse to guide my life (even if I do hold some sort of religious sentiments).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday May 15 2014, @06:15PM
Its true you can usually get away with saying something is your opinion.
Most of the time reviews attacking the sellers personally, get down-rated as being unhelpful on Amazon. They have no Troll rating, but they will, in fact, remove abusive reviews.
There are lots of reviews that attack the product, point out all of the deficiencies, and recommend "Don't Buy". These tend to stay, and even get marked as helpful.
I guess it comes down to which is more important to you, hurling an insult, or helping other buyers not get stung.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday May 15 2014, @06:17PM
Crap, sorry for all bold... Must remember to click preview...
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by evilviper on Thursday May 15 2014, @07:57AM
Consider yourself lucky... In the US, being factually truthful is an iron-clad defence against libel/defamation charges. In much of Europe, it's not, and you can be held responsible for what you write having a negative impact on the company.
The US' freedom of speech rules, which explicitly allow you to lie to your heart's content, combined with libel laws which hold you liable if you aren't being truthful, has a very odd effect... Negative product reviews can be trusted, while positive product reviews can be, and often are, fabricated accounts paid for by the manufacturer. They can lie about how great their product is all they want, but their competitors can't post falsely negative reviews of the product without trouble.
I know I've purchased products, only to go back and find EVERY 1-star review about the product on Amazon was exactly what I experienced. I can point to 32GB SDHC cards that are obviously too-cheap to be real, but the couple 1-star reviews reporting it have been down-voted and buried by fake 5-star reviews from accounts that never reviewed any other product.
ALWAYS read the top-rated negative reviews of a product! I particularly prefer when a negative review has clear numbers to back-up the claims, and suggest a different product as an improved alternative.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2) by elf on Thursday May 15 2014, @10:21AM
The main difference between the US and UK used to be that you don't need to prove malice to prove to have been libel. In the UK things have change in the last year
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/conten ts/enacted>
The type of defence you can used is clearly explained.
The comments in ARS were actually quite interesting, what I said above was posted there.
(Score: 1) by E_NOENT on Thursday May 15 2014, @01:38PM
This is good advice. For me, I try to verify my assumption that anything I buy online (sight unseen) is going to be a worthless piece of junk until proven otherwise. I also count on the fact that reviews are often "gamed" by manufacturers and other paid shills.
Negative reviews can be hokum as well (placed by competitors) but if you're at all familiar with type of product you're buying, you can spot the bogus false reviews and omit them from consideration.
What's left (in the one-star ratings) are actual beefs that people have had with the product, which provide a pretty reliable guide toward whether or not it's worth your time. If I can't prove that the product is in fact a steaming pile, I'll begrudgingly purchase the item.
Yeah, I *am* a lot of fun at parties, why do you ask?
I'm not in the business... I *am* the business.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:19PM
Except for the part where most people who leave 1-star reviews are morons.
"produce wuz rong color. ZERO STARS WOUD NOT BUY AGAIN"
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 4, Funny) by rcamera on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:40PM
/* no comment */
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 15 2014, @03:00PM
Yeah I've seen a few for cables that say the cables are too short (but the lengths of the cables were in their description).
That said I hope whatever laws are introduced don't prevent the entertaining joke reviews.
e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discon tinued-Manufacturer/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM [amazon.com]l on-Titanium-Chronograph/dp/B001K3IXW8/ [amazon.com]5 0201 [amazon.com]
http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-96-0529-4035-Tourbil
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=10012
(Score: 1) by E_NOENT on Thursday May 15 2014, @03:10PM
Who would want to buy a short cable? That's my point, don't you see?
That's EXACTLY the kind of information I NEED!
I'm not in the business... I *am* the business.
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Friday May 16 2014, @05:44AM
I've found the opposite, the overwhelming majority of the time. See the reviews at the following links for incontrovertible proof:
http://www.amazon.com/Haribo-Gummi-Bears-Sugar-Fre e/dp/B000EVQWKC [amazon.com]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Veet-Men-Hair-Removal-Crem e/dp/B000KKNQBK [amazon.co.uk]
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 15 2014, @09:02AM
Just shut up and buy the thing already, you consumer!
(Score: 3, Funny) by kaszz on Thursday May 15 2014, @10:48AM
"We tested our whiz pill on 100 patients in 10 trials. And all participants died except in one trial. Those 10 patients still lived to write about it in an excellent review. That said the pill was great. So we filed a great 100% satisfied review to FDC and our lobbyist made a future career offer to encourage the examiner as an invisible bribe. Now our 10% survivors continue to write excellent reviews. Our statistician nagged something about systematic bias so we fired him and now only have a smiling staff and dead patients all around." :D
(Score: 3, Funny) by tangomargarine on Thursday May 15 2014, @02:15PM
Only post positive reviews
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 15 2014, @07:19PM
This seems to only apply to USians, right? They're all batshit insane and corrupt anyway so if they have to go through these measures to freely speak their mind, no matter what level of ranting is involved, I would scrap that advice and just:
1. leave the US for a reasonable country where folks aren't destroyed with the support of their government for simply speaking their mind
2. ???
3. Profit!