A study into repeated exposure of vegetables to pre-school children has found that age had a significant affect on the eating pattern, with older children being more likely to be non-eaters of the novel food (in this study artichoke puree was used).
Successful repeated exposure is dependent upon tasting even small amounts of the target food. Thus, repeated exposure is more likely to be effective at a time when most tastes are easily accepted, namely the weaning period. The first year of life presents a window of opportunity before the onset of food neophobia, which then peaks around 2-6 years, thus introducing novel foods such as different vegetables is optimal earlier rather than later.
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Learning to Eat Vegetables in Early Life: The Role of Timing, Age and Individual Eating Traits
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(Score: 3, Interesting) by fishybell on Wednesday June 04 2014, @02:27PM
This sounds like a built in physiological mechanism designed to retain tribal knowledge. If you only eat what your hunter-gatherer mom fed you, you yourself will only eat that through adulthood, and then in turn feed that to your hunter-gatherer offspring.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday June 04 2014, @02:45PM
That might have been true thousands of years ago, but I doubt that's true now, because a kid is not born with the discipline to resist eating only high-fructose processed shit for every meal. If something as base as a monkey will choose cocaine over food, a kid would do the same thing at any point in their childhood if their parents didn't do a good job making sure they were eating healthy.
At this point it's all discipline and being a good but thankless parent, making the kid reluctantly do all the things they don't want to for the sake of their health and good habit.
That being said, I was at times a rotten little shit as a kid. Hated vegetables and eggs and wanted to eat the same things every day. Then I grew up, and discovered how awesome vegetables really are. Spinach salads, grilled zucchini and eggplant, edamame, corn on the cob, heirloom tomatoes and rainbows of fresh salsas. If I could go back in time to when I refused to eat the green-beans my mom made, I'd bitch-slap my petulant little self.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:06PM
> If I could go back in time to when I refused to eat the green-beans my mom made, I'd bitch-slap my petulant little self.
Don't be too hard on your younger self, he had a totally different mix of tastebuds in his mouth. Any given food would taste quite different to him than they do to you.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:03PM
More likely designed to stop you poisoning yourself. When you are 1-2, you aren't particularly mobile and very closely supervised. This means you will only eat what your elders have given you, and it will be safe. On the other hand, you need to be receptive to a lot of different foods because, well, you have to learn about all the different foods you are going to be surviving on.
Once you get to 2 or 3, you're over the whole "put everything directly into your mouth" stage, and at the same time you're start getting a little more independent. That may seem like a bit of a joke to our modern sensibilities, but consider that we are talking about prehistoric hunter gatherers here. In that setting, by the time you're two, your mother probably has a new baby taking up her attention and you're told to to go play in the dirt with a gang of older siblings / cousins.
So now you're out and about exploring the environs of your temporary camp (nomadic hunter gatherers, remember), barely supervised by a bunch of kids not much older or wiser than yourself. Darwin favours those who are averse to the pretty but unknown red berries on that bush over there, or those intriguing little white mushrooms with the spots that little Ug junior double-dared you to eat a handful of.
If you map the development of tastebuds (ie, preferences for sweet and sour) through child development, you can see the same story being told.
TL;DR - Best to stick to what you know, because you know it won't kill you.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:19PM
Another interesting aspect is before world travel and world shipping and mass produced industrial food, in a year or two you've eaten everything you'll EVER eat. So by definition if you taste something new at age 5 its probably inedible because if it was edible you'd have eaten it at age 2.
Nobody ever sprung "new coke" soda PR campaign on a kid 50Kyrs ago.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:58PM
>> When you are 1-2, you aren't particularly mobile and very closely supervised. This means you will only eat what your elders have given you, and it will be safe.
All of this is wrong. Where do you live, Oppositeville?
(Score: 2) by fishybell on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:44PM
Yes; I didn't state it explicitly, but that iss more or less the thrust of what I was going for.
(Score: 1) by Lazarus on Wednesday June 04 2014, @02:52PM
I'm mostly carnivorous, and am in much better shape than 99% of American men my age. Moderating my eating has left me with very little fat, and a ton of energy.
(Score: 2) by fliptop on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:24PM
That's good, especially if your body is in ketosis. However, since you get mostly protein and fat from meat, your body does need vegetables for vitamins and fiber. So to answer your question, yes they are good for us and our bodies were designed to eat meat and vegetables [marksdailyapple.com].
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 1) by Lazarus on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:59PM
I don't starve myself to the point of going into ketosis. My weight loss was gradual after giving up pizza, sugary drinks, and candy. I'd been at 6'2" 260lbs, and stabilized at 210lbs. That still seems a little high for my height, but my shoulders are broad and I have some muscle on me from lifting weights, so at 210, I don't even have that little bit of side-flab that's common above the waist.
My gut seems to be fine, I don't spend a lot of time in the bathroom, so I don't think I need more fiber. I do take a multivitamin, so maybe that's what's keeping me healthy, but I am evidence that eating vegetables is not essential to good health. If it was, I would have crashed and burned by now, like vegetarians eventually do due to their lack of meat. Instead, I'm an extremely healthy 47. I do eat a lot of almonds, so maybe that's making up the nutritional gap.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by fliptop on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:11PM
I'm not sure that's actually how to do it, your body goes into ketosis when you stop eating carbs because the only thing left to burn for energy is fat. Have you stopped eating wheat, soy, corn and rice too?
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Wednesday June 04 2014, @08:59PM
Instead, I'm an extremely healthy 47
Talk to us when you meet or exceed the life expectancy for males in your country.
I'm not saying you won't, I'm just saying that your past history + current habits + genetics
might get you to healthy 47. Genetics might make you drop dead at 55 no matter what... or
live to 100 as long as you don't take up crack. We really don't know if what you're doing
is optimal for you. The idea that there's a set of habits that's optimal for everybody is
probably wrong since we're all different. Of course there are some good rules of thumb
like not starving yourself or smoking crack; but beyond that there's probably some variation.
Visit any old folks home, and talk to the 95 year old women smoking by the back exit. There
are usually 1 or 2.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:27PM
That's nice for you.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday June 05 2014, @03:22AM
Fibre is for cows. Cows are for me. ;)
When you really look at our large intestine -- it isn't really designed to cope with a lot of fibre. Its plethora of small pockets are designed to output pellets, not poo. It is not intended to be stretched.
Dr.Eades (blog on proteinpower.com) points out something interesting: fibre is by definition that which is not digestible by humans. It IS digestible by bacteria. Therefore it increases bacterial load, which increases gas, which he's found is a component of GERD. He found for about 90% of his GERD patients, take fibre out of the diet and their GERD goes away with no further treatment.
Myself, I eat as little fibre as possible, because the more fibre I eat, the worse I feel, and the less well my guts function. They're fine, indeed better without it.
For whoever made the remark about "get back to me when/if you get old" ... my mom's whole family are adamantly carnivorous. Average age of death is mid-90s (with very little deterioration til near the end), and some crack 100.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Informative) by goodie on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:04PM
My son who is now about 21 months old used to love things like avocado, turnip and a whole lotta veggies we would feed him (but never ate ourselves as kids...). But beyond food neophobia, the issue has been changing tastes for us. One day they just decide they don't like something, doesn't matter how many times you try or in different recipes etc. If they have decided they don't like it, they won't eat it. And then one day they decide they like it again. Anyway, my point is just that there's this phase where anything goes in but that doesn't mean it will be like that forever ;).
On a sidenote, I've been fascinated by people's attempts at throwing foods down their kids' throats that they haven't eaten as kids or that they don't like because it's "healthy".
To me building good eating habits (eat in moderation at set meal times, no limit crap intake) is probably more important.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:00PM
When I was a kid I hated peas, or thought I did. I discovered as an adult that it was only canned peas that taste nasty, but fresh or frozen peas are delicious.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 1) by goodie on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:42PM
True... There's a bunch of foods I used to hate but now, upon trying them again, I actually like them: asparagus, carrots, etc. But this was more in my late twenties when I got to cook them myself and make the conscious decision of trying it rather than being force fed ;)
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:57PM
Some kids change their tastes, some don't.
There are various methods to get them to change: https://foodcorps.org/news/the-boston-globe-if-they-grow-it-they-will-eat-it [foodcorps.org]
But if they are eating some healthy stuff and aren't actually trying to eat unhealthily all the time, or even toxic stuff, I don't think it's worth fighting over (unless there's a shortage of money or food): http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/22/dont-make-children-eat-greens [theguardian.com]
FWIW I think oceanic fish is healthy (as long as it's not mercury or PCB laden).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday June 04 2014, @07:27PM
The way my parents did it was if you didn't want to eat then you didn't eat. It wasn't torture but simply reinforcing good eating habits. I don't remember really going to bed hungry because I ate my food.
Another thing was what my parents ate, I ate. No cooking separate kids meals. Me: "Aw! Baked chicken, mashed potatoes and mixed vegetables again!" parents: "Yup, eat up!" And that was that. And in restaurants they fed me from their plates, never a kids menu. When I was older I got to pick my own meals and I went for the good stuff, not the junk.
If you wonder why so many kids are overweight then look toward the parents who gave in and made their kids mac and cheese from a box using a stick of butter and frozen breaded/fried foods. Plus the kids menus at restaurants are always the same greasy crap: chicken fingers, hot dogs, burgers, french fries, as well as mac and cheese. All carbs and fat with little or no vegetables or fiber.
And lets not forget soda and flavored sugar mixes (kool aid, iced tea mix, etc). My mother got me started drinking proper iced tea. And it was never sweet. She made it using a 2 quart (~2L) pitcher and three tea bags. With a bit of fresh lemon it's a very satisfying drink. I also make green tea with a bit of honey (3 table spoons or 45ml), its amazing, to me at least. My white corningware pitcher is permanently stained brown from all the tea I have made which to date is probably thousands of liters. I brew about a pot every one or two days and keep a supply of fresh lemons in the fridge.
Bottom line is: never give into kids being picky about their food. You have to be a little tough and ensure they eat right. In the future, they will be better off and eat healthy on their own.
(Score: 1) by goodie on Thursday June 05 2014, @12:06AM
True that. The issue is that there is a very strong push to have kids eat when they are young and start on solids. The same logic applies to milk feeds, to the point where you sometimes see 1 year olds drinking 1 liter of milk per day and eating crap biscuits the rest of the time. But as long as baby is putting on weight it's all good... Well, the great thing now for our kid is that he's at an age where he won't go to bed hungry, or won't wake up in the middle of the night because of hunger.
When they're little and they wake up at night, we're conditioned to think "oh he must be hungry, gonna give him a bottle of milk!". But later on, this is anything but true. Don't want to eat? Well, ok then but I'm not giving you cookies just to fill your stomach instead. Like tonight, there was chili and lentil fritters (wanted to try a recipe I read about in the paper the other day...). To my surprise my kid said screw the chili but ate quite a few fritters (and no these are not battered, sweetened things, I'm talking water, lentils, onion, cilantro and ginger, that's it) and was happy about it. When he bitched about the chili we made him eat at least a little spoon "to try" and since he did not want any after that we said ok, all good. I know parents who freak out when their kids eat less than usual but we all have days where we're less hungry etc. and that's just fine. Same for kids.
Anyway, your point is bang on. We need to treat kids and their eating habits as something very important which must appear to be done casually. We have some "baby" cookbooks and aside from one or two recipes, the rest is crap to me. I don't expect my kid to like 90% of the recipes in there because I don't know anybody who would. Instead, I cook the food we like and it forces us to add some more veggies to our plates too so it's good for everybody. And my kid appreciates not being treated like an idiot who's waiting to "graduate" to adult meals.
But there is sooooo much pressure in North America for that crap it's insane. As a foreigner I am amazed that people need to be told half of these things and think that the other half even makes sense ;). And yes, restaurants' kids meals are a fucking disgrace. No way my kid is ever eating that crap, it just won't even be an option to me.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by fliptop on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:14PM
Indulge me for a few minutes.
My kids and I went through a little skirmish we affectionately refer to as "the great zucchini battle of 2005." I had tried to get them to eat it numerous times. I tried sneaking it in w/ other foods, all kinds of different recipes to make it more palatable, etc. and nothing worked. They just refused.
Since we had reached a stalemate, we signed a "peace treaty." The deal was, I would no longer try to get them to eat zucchini, but in return, they had to try any other food I gave them w/o refusing. If they didn't like whatever it was they were trying they'd have to finish what I gave them but were given a pass on eating it in the future.
The next night I cooked up some venison steaks and smothered them w/ sauteed mushrooms and onions. In the past, they would have wrinkled their noses and complained but this night, as per the peace agreement, they had to try it. And much to their surprise, they found out that mushrooms and onions really compliment the taste of a steak quite nicely.
Same thing happened the next time I cooked butternut squash. "Wow Dad, when you make it w/ the garlic and thyme it really does taste good."
Fast forward many years and their palates are very refined and they're not afraid of trying anything. When my youngest went to California last year w/ her friend who's from Vietnam she ate everything that was put in front of her and really liked it all. And that's saying something because they put green onions in just about everything they cook!
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:25PM
Get them addicted to food network shows (which can result in other problems) and you get to experience temper tantrums when you won't buy and serve dragon fruit and eel. "Dad Dad, beef hearts, get them, get them now! waaaaaah" Unfortunately I am not kidding.
(Score: 1) by goodie on Thursday June 05 2014, @12:09AM
Haha, that's pretty cool. Now you just have to make sure they're not always watching triple D or something like that then ;).
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday June 05 2014, @08:35PM
Yes thats already lead to arguments along the lines of "no we're not going to drive 3000 miles to visit that place for dinner" "waaah"
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:06PM
Squash and zucchini? I'm on your kids' side here, they're both nasty IMO and afaik contain no nutrients that other vegetables lack.
And never ever force a kid to eat what you give him. It's likely to lead to obesity as an adult. Let them choose from what you offer, and rather than "clean your plate, kids in Africa are starving" make it "take what you want but eat what you take. Of course, this is after they're 3 or 4.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:16PM
zucchini? Oh, man, are you missing out - sauteed with some onions and herbs, breads, ratatouille, in pancakes, stuffed, ... so much to do with it.
Squashes are good too, again if you prepare them the right way. For example, cut open a buttercup squash and bake with butter and brown sugar.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by fliptop on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:26PM
Agreed, except for the breads/pancakes suggestion (I went paleo 2 years ago). In 2005 I just happened to have a bumper crop of zucchini and was staring at them all and thinking, "what the hell am I going to do now?" My favorite way, though, is the way my grandfather taught me, dip in egg, powder w/ coconut flour, fried in olive oil w/ salt.
That's good too, except I substitute pure maple syrup (grade B) for the brown sugar.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 2) by Angry Jesus on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:42PM
> Squash and zucchini? I'm on your kids' side here, they're both nasty IMO and afaik contain no nutrients that other vegetables lack.
You are so missing out. My wife makes this sauteed zuchini and yellow squash with cumin and (I think) garam masala and it is awesome. I could eat enough of it to give me a stomach ache. Indians really know how to prepare vegetables to maximize savoriness, even the ones who aren't vegetarians. None of the indian restaurants I've been to cook like her family does though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 04 2014, @05:09PM
I've been eating a lot of Indian style fried bittergourd, it's probably not very healthy since it's fried. But it's tasty.
Looks something like this: http://www.rakskitchen.net/2012/03/crispy-bitter-gourd-karela-fries.html [rakskitchen.net]
I eat it along with a LOT of other stuff at this place: http://thegardennom.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/indian-rice-selera-wawasan-ss3-pj/ [wordpress.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 04 2014, @03:15PM
There are indications, for instance, that kids who only get disgusting canned peas as young children will hate nice fresh ones, because they taste so different. Similarly, if you're used to sugar in absolutely everything, the moment you have something without sugar you're going to think something is wrong with the food.
So there's probably something to this, although I doubt it's anywhere near as strong an effect as the researchers think it is.
As far as how this affects what you feed your kids: If it's good for you, it's probably good for them. If it's bad for you, it's almost definitely bad for them too. You know what those are, do as your parents did and make sure that what your kids are eating is the good stuff.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3) by mcgrew on Wednesday June 04 2014, @04:09PM
My mom bought canned peas when I was a kid and I hated them, but discovered as an adult that I love fresh ones. I still can't stand them out of a can, though.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Insightful) by outlier on Wednesday June 04 2014, @06:40PM
From my own experience raising multiple kids, this seems really obvious and equally well known. My wife and I got advised to start with vegetables when switching from milk/formula to baby food. If you give them fruit first they get a taste for sweeter foods and won't eat their vegetables.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 04 2014, @09:48PM
It's an ad but it is a GREAT SONG! :D (^_^) \o/ :o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-2lzA7_Cg [youtube.com]
The world-famous singing software program compels you
to eat healthy by drinking her particular brand of vegetable juice! :)