from the things-just-got-a-whole-lot-worse dept.
Wired is reporting:
A routine request in Florida for public records regarding the use of a surveillance tool known as stingray took an extraordinary turn recently when federal authorities seized the documents before police could release them.
The ACLU had an appointment last Tuesday to review documents pertaining to a case investigated by a Sarasota police detective. But marshals swooped in at the last minute to grab the records, claiming they belong to the U.S. Marshals Service and barring the police from releasing them."We've seen our fair share of federal government attempts to keep records about stingrays secret, but we've never seen an actual physical raid on state records in order to conceal them from public view," the ACLU wrote in a blog post today.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2014, @10:56PM
Can we please stop pretending otherwise?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2014, @11:18PM
Ignorance is bliss, so 'they' are trying to increase the level of ignorance to make everyone happy... they are only doing what's best for America, amirite?
They're also trying to save the environment by reducing the amount of paper used, cos everyone knows that if we use less paper then less trees will be cut down, yeah?
Besides, everyone knows that if I do a google search for 'public records' I'll have instant access to every public record ever created, now who's with me?
Let's all form a big fat chain of people holding hands to make the shape of a dove (getting hit by a cruise missile) and pass the Soylent Green.
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Sunday June 08 2014, @11:21PM
No idea if this town was planning on wasting paper, but when I did a FOI thing with my city, less than 100k population, the answer came back as a pdf document.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2014, @11:58PM
Please relocate to a real police state for a year or two and let us know how that works for you. You sound as measured and reasonable as your typical AM radio talk show call-in.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @12:14AM
You really still think you don't live in a real police state? Put down the bread and stop watching the circuses for a moment and open your fucking eyes, and try doing something that is ostensibly legal but what the ruling elites don't like. Then see what they do to you. You'll be lucky if you even have the chance to request asylum in some country that doesn't kowtow to the US. Two words: Edward Snowden.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Refugee from beyond on Monday June 09 2014, @12:20AM
Arguing over sorts of shit is kinda pointless, it's still shit.
Instantly better soylentnews: replace background on article and comment titles with #973131.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @12:34AM
police state
noun
a nation in which the police, especially a secret police, summarily suppresses any social, economic, or political act that conflicts with governmental policy.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Dunbal on Monday June 09 2014, @02:03AM
I dunno buddy I live in Latin America and I think the US has pretty much turned itself into a police state. Yes there are worse places, like perhaps N. Korea, Myanmar, or some African countries. Do you really think not being the absolute bottom of the barrel is something to be proud of?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by The Archon V2.0 on Monday June 09 2014, @05:59PM
Given the responses I hear from people when I try to explain this to them, that's basically the metric most people use. It's nightmarish when you realize that an average person's best argument - and thus the one he thinks is right and true and unassailable - is that "someone else is worse". Even if you break it down to that core, they'll still cling to it like a liferaft.
And a lot of people still think it's the Cold War. They've internalized everything except the *relevant* part of the "papers please" image. I see an authority figure demanding my identity, proof my government is allowing me to go somewhere (everything not explicitly permitted is forbidden), and a method of tracking my movements - this is fairly close to what's happening RIGHT NOW. Meanwhile, they see a Russian wanting paperwork. Or, to phrase it another way:
1) Police state = USSR
2) USSR police state instruments = KGB or Stasi.
Therefore, police state = KGB or Stasi.
3) Have I been accosted by any Russians or East Germans? No.
Therefore, America is nothing like a police state.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Monday June 09 2014, @07:31PM
And yet when the gangs take over your neighborhood, who do you call?
The interesting thing about this story that everyone (including you) wants to ignore is that the local Police Department was complying with the right to review the records.
The U.S. Marshals Service claimed it owned the records Sarasota police offered to the ACLU because it had deputized the detective in the case, making all documentation in the case federal property.
Solution: Make it a state law that No State, County, or City police may accept a deputization from the US Marshals or any US Government police agency.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Monday June 09 2014, @08:24PM
> And yet when the gangs take over your neighborhood, who do you call?
Not the federal government, that's for sure.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday June 10 2014, @02:42AM
Not quite.
The Sarasota department did not *offer* the records. They were *required*, by court order, to turn over those records.
The US Marshals are now violating a state court order by preventing those records from being reviewed. That's the problem. The executive branch showing flagrant disregard for the rulings of the judicial. The proper procedure is not to seize the documents but to file an appeal or request an injunction.
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Tuesday June 10 2014, @07:54PM
"And yet when the gangs take over your neighborhood, who do you call?"
Living with a certain degree of violence is the price I pay for my liberty. Yes I am less safe. Who do I call? No one, the police will usually only show up long after the fact. I've seen people shot and had them die in front of me. My daughter has had a gun pulled on her. I've had my car stolen no less than 3 times. Still I'd rather live here (I do have a choice, being a Canadian citizen). Why? I like freedom.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 10 2014, @04:15AM
I ask myself if I've seen any tanks lately, or if the National Guard has shot some protesters, or if there is a curfew.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @01:32AM
Who's pretending?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Rune of Doom on Monday June 09 2014, @03:54AM
I agree, but keep in mind that its a police state with a fairly high standard of living for many of its inhabitants. (Said inhabitants are fed from birth a diet of propaganda about how good they have it, how worse everyplace else is, how awesome they and their corporate government are, ad nauseaum.) But eventually the relentless squeezing by the .01% will run afoul of reality and there are enough people who are hungry and watching their loved ones die from lack of quality medical care - then the blood is going to run in the streets. American's on course to turn into a horror show of epic proportions. As Kennedy said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday June 09 2014, @12:21PM
I think a much better quote that explains why the USA has become the USSA was provided by old Honest Abe:
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching; corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21 1864
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 4, Informative) by CRCulver on Monday June 09 2014, @05:10PM
Lincoln never said that [snopes.com]. Please don't perpetuate spurious quotations. A two-second Google search is usually enough to tell whether some pithy quotation actually goes back to whoever it is sometimes attributed to.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @12:45AM
It's fairly obvious that the federal Police are worried about details coming out showing a blatant disregard for the laws of the state via mass data interceptions, most likely without valid warrants to cover all cases of their actions. They want to prevent the possibility of news reports about regular people being spied upon for no valid legal reason in clickbait fashion and the potential lawsuits later.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @01:10AM
Did the Marshalls give the spies a cigarette, blindfold, a position at the wall, etc as is a proper reward for spying?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @02:01AM
No silly goose. The Marshals were the spies.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @02:06AM
So the FBI has been subbing out to the USM. Not news. Even the Stingrays are online ... in specific detail. Fake hotspots for cellphones that tap all calls that hit them. Everyone in the area gets tapped but they promise not to ever use it without a warrant. I believe we can trust them. Don't you?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @05:09AM
Harris Corporation, an aerospace company based in Melbourne, Florida [google.com]makes these things... They look just like another cellphone tower to any cellphone in its vicinity. As you know, the signal strength to the phone is a function of how far it is from any given tower, and the close one is going to get the call routed through it. The person stepping into this thing's sphere of influence has no idea that the call is being intercepted... it looks and acts like any other cell tower.
Incidentally, the way he handled it... no wonder we nerds cannot get a date...
She learned the hard way. She was beautiful, but had no need of loyalty or ethics, as she was already very well endowed with a powerful pair of magnets few men could resist. He was intelligent, rich, and very jealous.
After seeing this, it made me wonder why more men aren't gay. She was only married to him according to legal documents... what she was really married to was her cell phone.
(Score: 3, Funny) by LookIntoTheFuture on Monday June 09 2014, @06:01AM
After my experiences with princesses, I have tried to find men attractive so I could give that a go. But, it just doesn't work for me.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by juggs on Monday June 09 2014, @03:27AM
... Turn Of the Screw
Every little turn causes no pain in itself, so the media coverage is ~blah~ for a day at best, the proles interest at best is ~blah~ for 30 seconds before flicking channel "show me something fun".
It would take an almighty populous uprising to deflect the USA from its current descent down the black well of poor education and misinformation media to turn it around. I fear the momentum is too great and the apathy too massive for that to happen.
So either the USD will get sidelinded as a currency of reserve leaving the USA to print its way back to some domestic stability on its own terms within its own bounds OR it flares out with some all-in high-stakes war play.
I fear the latter is the play of choice right now while the former would actually be better for the majority of USA residents following a period of re-adjustment. There's only so many times the flare can happen before the dragon is deceased and out of fuel. It is best to quit while there is just a little in the reserves for the rebuild effort. ~mmkay or something~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 09 2014, @06:53PM
I recently played paintball... not my idea, it was a bachelor party event. From that little excursion I could say I detest war. It is absolute worst thing imaginable. How can you enjoy not knowing if your next step will be your last? Every time something whizzes past your head you just barely not died. I am so going to hate the day I will be forced pick up a rifle because there is no other recourse. Protect the second, because first will fall.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by ticho on Monday June 09 2014, @08:30PM
The ones deciding whether or not to go to war won't be the ones dodging those bullets.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday June 09 2014, @10:32PM
Apathy occurs, but anger accretes over time. Grudges last generations. When the underlying causes of anger remain, anger builds. That is why societies that survive cataclysms or catastrophic policies only really heal when the source of the bitterness is addressed directly and fully. When it is not, anger smolders on. The government of the United States has suffered a catastrophic loss of credibility, and it loses consent by the day. Our allies are that in name only, when before we were in each others' hearts. Citizens are waking up to the reality that the government and those in the .01% who control it in fact constitute the greatest threat to their freedom that they've ever known.
People aren't in the streets yet, but they are fighting back in ways large and small. And little by little we're steeling ourselves for the larger sacrifices that will have to be made, if these massive crimes are not punished and those responsible not thrown into the deepest, darkest holes we've got.
Some interpret the militarization of the police, the over-use of SWAT teams, DHS VIPR teams in the subways and on the highways, the NSA police state, as a sign that things are hopeless and that we little people can never get justice. But the more a state relies on those measures, the weaker and more brittle it actually is. A stable society, by contrast, has no need to physically force everyone to do its bidding because its members move and perform in patterns they overtly or subconsciously agree with; that is, soft power and common consent suffice to keep civil order.
Give it time. We've all learned in the last year that we've been deeply, deeply betrayed by those we trusted most. We've learned that everyone who's "in charge" is complicit in the crimes. Everything we took for granted in the social contract we live our lives under has been thrown out the window. If this were WWII, it be like seeing the Japanese marching up Pennsylvania Avenue before realizing we were being attacked. You don't snap back from that big a shock in a fortnight. You have to process it internally. You have to decide where you stand and what you're willing to do. You have to put your affairs in order, make provision for your family should you not return, and set out to do your part.
I believe most people are still in the first stage, or getting there. Some have moved on to the second stage. Eventually enough people will get to the final stage and that's where you will see things really begin to move. In the meantime, if you've moved beyond the first stage try to lay down tracks for people coming along behind you to catch up to you, faster. If you discern actions you can take, and those actions require more than yourself to accomplish, for god's sake don't share them with anyone you haven't known and trusted implicitly your whole life, and don't talk about them on the phone, online, or in any fashion other than face-to-face in a private space you own.
Maybe the actions you can take stop at encrypting your hard drive. Good, do that. Maybe it means convincing your boss at work to eschew cloud services. Maybe you can tell others around you, who haven't been paying attention to what the NSA is doing, and explain to them what it means. Maybe you can write software designed to fight the NSA in some way. Maybe you can help people set up darknets. There are lots of ways to resist. It's up to you to decide. But don't do nothing. That's the worst. That means you've already surrendered not just your own freedom, but mine and everyone else's besides.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fatuous looser on Monday June 09 2014, @09:01AM
Wired article states "the agency dispatched a marshal from its office in Tampa to seize the records and move them to an undisclosed location." These were dead-tree documents, were they? What kind of "records" exactly are we talking about? Hard drives?
.
Later TFA says, "The ACLU wants the court to order the police department to retrieve the documents." How 'bout they retrieve them from their offsite backup? They didn't have one? Maybe that's the lesson here. No more paper records that haven't been scanned in & saved somewhere else. Sure, it'll be expensive but that's the cost of having Big Brother looking over your shoulder 24/7. (Keep your backup in "the Cloud" & Big Brother will always know where it is. Cloud is dead.)
.
Must have been an awful lot of dirty laundry in that haul that some dirtied-up agency wants to hide.