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posted by azrael on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:38PM   Printer-friendly
from the tttutwttwwuwwu dept.

The New Scientist reports that a non-existent film inspired mathematicians to find 177,147 method to tie a tie.

In 1999, Thomas Fink and Yong Mao of the University of Cambridge published a mathematical language describing tie knots ... to show that only 85 knots were possible.

Now mathematician Mikael Vejdemo-Johansson of the KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, Sweden, has vastly broadened the tie landscape.

[Fink and Mao's formal language theory] ... described the process of tying a knot as a sequence of motions between the left, centre and right of the chest, moving the tie either away or towards the chest. Vejdemo-Johansson's team realised they could just describe moves as windings either clockwise or anticlockwise around the passive end of the tie, plus a tuck move. This freed them up to include much more elaborate ties.

They also changed an important rule: the limit to how many winding moves you can make before your tie gets embarrassingly short. Fink and Mao placed the limit at 8 for classical ties, but Vejdemo-Johansson's team chose 11 instead, as that is how many the Eldredge knot needs. Counting up all the possible windings and tucks before you hit this limit gives a total of 177,147 different tie knots.

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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Horse With Stripes on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:51PM

    by Horse With Stripes (577) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:51PM (#66148)

    Dear Misters Fink, Mao and Vejdemo-Johansson,

    Get a life, mm'kay?
     

    Sincerely,

    Everyone

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by cafebabe on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:56PM

    by cafebabe (894) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:56PM (#66151) Journal

    The moderators vastly improved my summary for this story and didn't take credit. My summary was quite poor but I only wrote it while researching loom bands [soylentnews.org].

    --
    1702845791×2
    • (Score: 1) by azrael on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:41PM

      by azrael (2855) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:41PM (#66183)

      Those loom bands!!! How many different ways can you tie them?

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cafebabe on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:11PM

        by cafebabe (894) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:11PM (#66201) Journal

        For b bands, I presume there is a practical subset of b! ways to tie them. Therefore, in a packet of 300 loom bands, the number of permutations may exceed the number of atoms in the known universe.

        --
        1702845791×2
    • (Score: 1) by arslan on Wednesday July 09 2014, @03:56AM

      by arslan (3462) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @03:56AM (#66345)

      Awesome! We should mandate that every summary must have an xkcd link...

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by lgsoynews on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:59PM

    by lgsoynews (1235) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @07:59PM (#66153)

    Well, I have trouble enough remembering the ONE knot that I know... Shame :-)

    I remember having once had to ask a coworker to help me with the knot when going to a customer, because I didn't remember how it was done. So he helped me do it while on the train, to the amusement of the few people around...

    That being said, I've only worn a tie about a dozen times in my whole life, which doesn't give many reasons to learn other knots. (I wear a shirt but never a tie, except during job interviews)

    • (Score: 2) by cafebabe on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:19PM

      by cafebabe (894) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:19PM (#66164) Journal

      I had to wear a tie at school. However, I found a lazy option with an adjustable knot that could be removed and worn again without retying. So, for the last two years or so, I didn't tie a tie.

      --
      1702845791×2
      • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:02PM

        by Nerdfest (80) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:02PM (#66197)

        It's really quite easy, even for the more complex (and better looking knots), it just takes a bit of practice. They're silly things in general, but sometimes one must 'blend in'. My female-unit is a big fan of me dressed up as well, and I gather this is common with many women. So, in the great words of NPH: "Suit up!".

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cafebabe on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:30PM

          by cafebabe (894) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:30PM (#66208) Journal

          NPH? Neil Patrick Harris? Is he gay?

          Ignoring that, I understand the sentiment. http://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20120427/reasons_why_guys_are_scared_of_pinterest_118.jpg [acidcow.com] found via http://acidcow.com/pics/31924-things-girls-share-on-pinterest-125.html [acidcow.com] states that "A well tailored suit is to women what lingerie is to men."

          I presume that a suit indicates factors important to women, such as status, affluence and intelligence. Being able to tie a tie is part of this intelligence. Presuming a greater variance of intelligence among men due to genetics, some men would struggle with elements of male grooming, such as ties.

          --
          1702845791×2
          • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:38PM

            by Nerdfest (80) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:38PM (#66213)

            He is gay, but pulls off an 'alpha-male-ish' character very well. Things have changed with the suit, in general probably, but I would guess that it will be in indicator of wealth/taste for a few generation more at least. The suit itself hasn't really changed that much in quite a long time.

    • (Score: 2) by EvilJim on Wednesday July 09 2014, @12:22AM

      by EvilJim (2501) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @12:22AM (#66272) Journal

      my first computer tech job had a tie requirement... which was stupid, we weren't customer facing and they kept getting caught in CPU fans whenever we leaned over a pc. they wouldn't even supply us with company branded tie clips. was not impressed. fortunately every job since had been more relaxed.

  • (Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:03PM

    by Alfred (4006) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:03PM (#66156) Journal

    Which way to I tie my tie to get chicks? Was that in the study?

    *forever alone*

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:16PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:16PM (#66163)
  • (Score: 2) by elf on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:30PM

    by elf (64) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:30PM (#66173)

    How many of these are practicable? I'd love to see a slideshow of the final state of each one, there must be some truly hilarious ones.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:49PM

      You want to see a slideshow with over 100k slides? I'd rather wait until several people go through them and weed out the duds.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 1) by APK on Wednesday July 09 2014, @01:41PM

        by APK (4517) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @01:41PM (#66510) Homepage Journal

        Sorry to bug you here, but I took your advice on my feature request (which you seem to be in agreement with AND BETTER YET, YOU have the ability to actually implement it too) & couldn't do it -> http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=2790&cid=66500 [soylentnews.org]

        APK

        P.S.=> Thanks for assist TMB... apk

        --
        APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit -> http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=585
    • (Score: 2) by present_arms on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:50PM

      by present_arms (4392) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @08:50PM (#66192) Homepage Journal

      I didn't find a slide show, but I did find a Python script click PDF and scroll to near the last page :) [arxiv.org]

      --
      http://trinity.mypclinuxos.com/
      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday July 09 2014, @06:00AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 09 2014, @06:00AM (#66378) Journal

        From the abstract there:

        "We show that the relaxed tie knot description language that comprehensively describes these extended tie knot classes is either context sensitive or context free."

        Isn't that true of any language?

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by cafebabe on Tuesday July 08 2014, @10:50PM

      by cafebabe (894) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @10:50PM (#66241) Journal

      http://tieknots.johanssons.org/ties.html [johanssons.org] generates random permutations. I hope someone tries them for a week and report back to us. They might look like a fool but they might look quite dapper.

      --
      1702845791×2
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 09 2014, @02:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 09 2014, @02:12AM (#66313)

        In my random search of a half dozen or so, it looks like a third of them end with the tie closing up, rather than down. I'm not sure if one is meant to tuck the loose end into a hat band or let it fall loosely over the knot, but either one sound pretty ridiculous. I suspect this is why mathematicians don't get invited to the cool kids' parties.

  • (Score: 2) by Blackmoore on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:01PM

    by Blackmoore (57) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:01PM (#66195) Journal

    I know tie-fu!

  • (Score: 2) by e_armadillo on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:49PM

    by e_armadillo (3695) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @09:49PM (#66218)

    This made me think of Keanu Reeves as a mathematician. My head nearly assploded . . .

    --
    "How are we gonna get out of here?" ... "We'll dig our way out!" ... "No, no, dig UP stupid!"
    • (Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday July 09 2014, @08:00AM

      by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @08:00AM (#66405)

      Didn't you see "The Day the Earth Stood Still (Remake)" Where he demonstrated his extensive understanding of mathematics!?

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Snotnose on Tuesday July 08 2014, @10:17PM

    by Snotnose (1623) on Tuesday July 08 2014, @10:17PM (#66231)

    Cuz I feel like I'm wearing one on the few instances I have to wear a tie.

    --
    Relationship status: Available for curbside pickup.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08 2014, @11:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08 2014, @11:15PM (#66247)

    xkcd is a pedantic pile of poop.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday July 09 2014, @03:23AM

      by Tork (3914) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @03:23AM (#66330)
      Because it is 'pedantic', whatever you mean by that, or because it's popular right now and you want to show how cool you are by staying ahead of the rise-and-decline pattern that every bit of popular content goes through?
      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday July 09 2014, @01:59PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday July 09 2014, @01:59PM (#66523)

        Randall has gotten pretty smug and pedantic lately. I'm waiting for him to come back around.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"