There has been some talk recently regarding the use of drones for commercial purposes in the US - that is, until the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) placed restrictions on such usage. Amazon has asked for exemption from rules prohibiting the use of drones for commercial purposes, indicating that they are hoping to move ahead with their proposals to use drones to achieve thirty minute Prime Air deliveries. They require the exemption to enable additional research and develop the concept further. However, many people are still unsure what exactly Amazon are proposing, so Forbes.com have listed 6 things that they think you should know about the proposal:
- If the FAA grants Amazon an exemption, it does not mean Amazon drones will be flying down your street.
- Amazon claims their drone technology has advanced significantly in just five months.
- Amazon wants to innovate and knows that it can't under the FAA's burdensome regulatory regime.
- Amazon plans to self-regulate, with procedures that exceed current FAA rules for model aircraft.
- Amazon plans to use technology to keep their operations safe.
- If the FAA doesn't grant Amazon's request, the company will move their drone R&D operations outside of the U.S.
Of course, each of these points is discussed in more detail in the article.
Despite the 6 points, I still feel that we have a long way to go before drone technology can be used safely and sharing the same airspace as existing air traffic. For example, technology is used today in an attempt to keep all flights safe; I believe that is a little presumptuous of Amazon to think that they can achieve what has so far eluded thousands, if not millions, of hours of work into the problem by researchers around the globe. Nevertheless, research has to begin somewhere and Amazon seem to have the desire and funding to have a stab at it, so perhaps there is an argument for the FAA to consider Amazon's request for an exemption. What do you think?
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday July 12 2014, @08:37AM
There's nothing presumptuous of Amazons try at safety for drones if others have done the wrong things with huge effort. It's not the effort and thousands of hours that count but the result.
A bit curious as to what alternative countries that are likely candidates for drone R & D ..?
(Perhaps this has some bite on FAA)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @08:42AM
China of course, according to that new Robocop movie.
(Score: 2) by lx on Saturday July 12 2014, @08:59AM
It looks to me that Amazon is turning into the new Apple. Trying to get out from under regulations, refusing to adhere to industry standards (with Kindle), screwing over their workers, partners and the competition and yet an army of overly loyal customers is ready to defend their every move.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:05AM
Amazon probably hasn't dealt much with the FAA if they think they can pay their way to freedom. The FAA is very experienced in wrapping big powerful companies up in red tape. It's what you pay them for.
(Score: 3, Informative) by kaszz on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:20AM
Seems like standard US corporate operating procedure. Just ask Monsanto etc.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:34AM
You're quite right - thanks for the correction. Perhaps I should have said that I feel Amazon are being ambitious - but ambition in and of itself is no bad thing. Nevertheless, accidents resulting from air traffic errors still occur, although fortunately at a relatively low rate per hour of flight. Mixing in unmanned drones will only complicate matters unless each drone has a flight plan issued for each flight which is fully coordinated with other air traffic movements. Height separation is all well and good, but the drone/aircraft have to climb and descend so this is not the complete solution to problem. Then we have to consider private air traffic which, in some instances, need not even submit a flight plan and the drone operator will have no idea of that aircraft's activity.
Like you, I am finding it hard to imagine where they might go outside the US to conduct the necessary research flights. I would imagine that they will want to start with a large, relatively unused block of airspace with suitable infrastructure and support facilities relatively close by.
Still, I wish Amazon luck. Unless someone tries to do it we will not discover what the problems are, let alone overcome them.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday July 12 2014, @04:58PM
I like the idea of instant delivery. But it can of course be used to deliver less pleasant goods (think kaboom!). The real problem is that a corporation gets the right to occupy airspace a limited natural resource and the risk and fallout of machine failure is taken by those living underneath.
For Amazon products I really don't see the really really urgent delivery need. For pharmacy and electronic *components* it would be great. The shaving machine may be too unimportant to occupy airspace for.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday July 12 2014, @07:51PM
I doubt pharmaceuticals are going to be delivered by drone. Too many regulations involved for that.
I doubt electronic components warrant delivery by drone. When was the last time there was a life or death emergency centering around a new hard drive or video card?
I suspect its for grocery delivery. Amazon is trying to get into that market already.
The range of the drones probably limits the area served to within 50 miles of a distribution center [amazonfulfillmentcareers.com]. Airspace regulations are going to force these operations below 2000 feet. And dense urban areas would be the only likely destinations. (Send these things over Jed Clampett's land and they are bound to end up as used parts at a swap meet).
Further the payload of any reasonable sized/priced drone is just not that much.
So the use area is vanishingly small, even if the customer density in those areas is rather high, but the justifiable payloads (that you would actually dare to deliver) are almost zero.
If they want to develop them elsewhere, fine by me. A sky full of drones is not a pleasing prospect if you ask me. Its noisy enough in the city, and adding a mess of drones isn't going to make urban life any better, even if the Kaboom could be controlled.
These things are a solution looking for a problem.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:10PM
The point with electronics is that if you need a component that stalls your project (or repair). You can eliminate the usual delivery cycle. Which may shave days of a project.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:18PM
Like I said, 50 miles radius, simply due to the amount of fuel/battery the drones will have,
and if you live withing 50 miles, next day delivery is worst case with existing means.
Perhaps you were thinking something along the lines of a predator that can stay aloft for
hours on end? Not happening.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday July 12 2014, @10:45PM
I'm thinking distribution central - drone - direct delivery. Any plane staying in the air can't get new stuff to forward.
(Score: 2) by bryan on Sunday July 13 2014, @02:34AM
I think the Amazon team just spent too much time playing the latest Sim City. The game has an "OmegaCo" factory that can produce products and drones. The robotic drones busily fly from the factory to nearby residences and commercial buildings to deliver new gizmos to the Sims. It's wonderfully futuristic and quite profitable for your city.
Amazon is just trying to make it a reality.
(Score: 3, Funny) by captain normal on Saturday July 12 2014, @04:58PM
"A bit curious as to what alternative countries that are likely candidates for drone R & D ..?"
I nominate some Middle Eastern country, say Iraq, Iran or Syria. The results would be very interesting.
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @08:39AM
All you parcel workers gonna be laid off! PANIC NOW LOSRS
(Score: 3, Informative) by tibman on Saturday July 12 2014, @06:51PM
I'm sure those drones won't need any maintenance, recharging, or payload packing either.
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(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:26AM
I read both TFS and TFA. No, my particulars have the consequence I don't need to know any of those things. Waste of time for me, lucky is weekend time.
Amazon needs only to reduce the risk of liabilities for which the insurance premiums cut the profit too much. I don't see how this can be achieved by, for instance, passenger aviation. Even cargo flights deal with distances/haulage which make the potential loss quite expensive. Totally different from pizza delivery drones.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @09:49AM
https://i.imgur.com/TOmx83x.jpg [imgur.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jimbrooking on Saturday July 12 2014, @10:11AM
As a private pilot I want the FAA to do all in its power to make sure my flights are safe.
As a geek with 50+ years of closely following cutting edge computing and technology, I remain unconvinced that unmanned aircraft can safely share the national airspace system with the rest of us. You can blame the risks on "wetware" (human failure points) but regardless, putting hosts of unmanned aircraft in the air is likely to result in an increased accident rate and loss of (human) life. This is unacceptable policy and should never get off the ground, so to speak
As a progressive liberal, I find it extremely tiresome that Forbes (of course) can not seem to use the word "regulation" without the adjective "burdensome" with its pejorative connotations. Regulations are a legitimate function of government, and are necessary to protect real people from the predation, malfeasance and negligence of corporations in their single-minded pursuit of profits. "Burdensome" is necessary and correct. It's dangerous and sad that we, the people, seem to have forgotten the lessons (Republican) President Theodore Roosevelt taught the U.S. in the early 20th century.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday July 12 2014, @11:02AM
7. This all makes for great free advertising whether or not it ever takes off (pun acknowledged)
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by bucc5062 on Saturday July 12 2014, @11:58AM
I can see the idea of "Hey, we can deliver people's prime crap through the air", but why? Unless they plan to make Brown Truck sized quad copters that can deliver to multiple sites, the idea of multiple drones dropping off packages seems very inefficient and costly. What does one need in 30 minutes of less other than pizza, blood transfusions? If I order a book I really don't need to read in in less then 30 minutes. There would have to be a size limitation as well (unless we are talking full sized drones) so again, how is that more efficient then a delivery truck.
Now that I could see, take Google's driverless car, hook it up to a routing map for deliveries, build an automated package removal system in the truck and ta da!! automated delivery for multiple homes. There is no practical application (that I can see) for such a service. Most important, how is there any verification of proper delivery. How does Amazon know that it was I, and not Black Bart, who got the package.
Just because we can, does not mean we should.
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kebes on Saturday July 12 2014, @01:53PM
Like many other modern conveniences, we do not need ultra-fast delivery... but once it becomes routine, we will love it, rely on it, and moan when we can't get it. (We don't need big TVs, or fast Internet, or dish-washers, or even indoor plumbing...)
I suspect that if small-sized items could be delivery by Amazon in an hour or less, people would take advantage of the service to a massive extent. There are many times where one does a quick run to the store for a single missing item (during a home improvement project, or party preparations, etc.). There are also times when one needs to run to the store but can't practically leave the house (baby-sitting, sick, broken leg, ... or maybe just lazy). And even for items that are not necessary in a short time, reducing the wait time is nevertheless nice (e.g. starting to read a physical book immediately after ordering it is kinda nice). And of course ultra-fast delivery could open up new modalities of shopping. (E.g. instead of going to a store to try on clothes, have some outfits shipped to you, try them on, and keep the ones you want. Sounds wasteful? No more so than many other aspects of modern life...)
None of this means that drone-shipping is a viable idea in terms of the economics or safety. But in terms of consumer demand, I have no doubt people would end up enjoying such a service. (And Amazon would reap the rewards in the sense that ultra-fast delivery makes people much more likely to engage in impulse-buying.)
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Saturday July 12 2014, @02:09PM
It needn't actually be efficient or cheap: the whole idea is largely a publicity exercise and probably the price for a rapid delivery will be high (assuming the whole thing actually gets off the ground).
(Score: 1) by Bytram on Saturday July 12 2014, @01:36PM
I *might* be willing to consider it, with these provisions:
That should be good for a start... anyone got some other suggestions?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by tathra on Saturday July 12 2014, @03:00PM
how would only one single destination during a short time window (the few hours that bezos is home and i assume your intent is that he also be awake, not the 6 months) show anything, aside from "the drones arent crashing"? in order to provide any useful data, a trial run should probably be run in a small city with an airport, to show that the drones wont affect normal air travel, etc. naturally the drones would be required to prove they can stay in the air, on track, and reliable before even getting to that step, but thats not a trial run, thats just basic preparations for the trial run. they should be required to have ACAS [wikipedia.org] and transponders, and should probably be required to put in flight plans for every delivery at least the first month or two just to be on the safe side and work out any kinks that may appear, and slowly transition from requiring flight plans to automated, unscheduled flights.
the biggest problems will probably end up being news and police helicopters, rather than airline flights, especially if they arent required to have ACAS and transponders (i have no idea if they do have them, but they should).
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Saturday July 12 2014, @03:05PM
(Score: 3, Informative) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday July 12 2014, @04:14PM
How would drone package deliveries be practicable? Sure, maybe to a few people's houses if the drone can avoid the 80ft tall oak trees and power lines, but what about apartment buildings? I guess the drone could dump the package in the parking lot, but that's probably not what people want. How would drones deliver to businesses? And drones would be grounded often for weather - high winds, thunderstorms, ice - or the threat of weather, since Amazon wouldn't want expensive drones flying if bad weather was coming.
The drone concept seems as difficult to execute as having people deliver packages to each other.
What we need is a daily delivery truck that comes to a specified box at your business or residence, and drops off packages. Then anyone who wanted to send you a package could use it. Didn't Benjamin Franklin come up with something like that?
Amazon has to have some purpose for drones (other than publicity), but I can't figure out what.
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 2) by tibman on Saturday July 12 2014, @06:54PM
It would just be another delivery option. If you can accept a drone delivery and you want your package in 30 minutes, you could buy drone delivery. But honestly, i don't think this would be any cheaper than a bunch of people on little motor bikes or something.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @07:38PM
the only reason for this is having people talk about Amazon
(Score: 1) by Happy.Heyoka on Sunday July 13 2014, @01:35AM
You're right about the weather. General aviation has enough problems with that.
A pizza delivery drone might not be a 777 but getting hit in the head by one dropping from several hundred feet in the air would not be pretty; pretty much the same arguments with "flying cars"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12 2014, @11:21PM
Once they can deliver something by drone, it wouldn't be much more difficult to pick something up. Think of the couriers and same day delivery companies businesses use all the time to send small things (legal documents) across town.
I seem to recall stories of European universities experimenting with flocks of drones. So I imagine Amazon could find some place to do the research if the FAA says 'no'.