In a horrifying twist, the NSA may still be working on an artificial intelligence codenamed MonsterMind. Reminds me of the beast/666 computer rumors.
In a recent Wired interview Edward Snowden revealed among other things that the NSA was (and may still be) working on a project codenamed MonsterMind. The autonomous AI would monitor all data traffic entering the U.S. from anywhere in the world looking for potential cyber-attacks. It would then shut down the attack and could launch automated counter-attacks.
Of course, this would require analyzing all network traffic in order to design an algorithm that distinguishes normal traffic flow from malicious traffic.
And as Snowden told WIRED’s James Bamford, "That means violating the Fourth Amendment, seizing private communications without a warrant, without probable cause or even a suspicion of wrongdoing. For everyone, all the time."
(Score: -1) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18 2014, @01:57AM
"Aileen: Fuckin' office job! Who the fuck wants a job like that? You fuckin' sit at a little desk, you got your little phone, you got your little fuckin' piece of paper, your little pen, you write shit down, blah blah blah. Fuck, a monkey could do that shit man!"
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday August 18 2014, @02:02AM
Send "malicious data" to trigger the AI shit all the time..?
Just because one can pick a lock doesn't mean one can handle what's behind the door..
(Score: 2, Informative) by bswarm on Monday August 18 2014, @02:18AM
Because according to http://www.digitalattackmap.com/#anim=1&color=0&country=ALL&time=16299&view=map/ [digitalattackmap.com] we're under attack every day.
(Score: 3) by c0lo on Monday August 18 2014, @03:43AM
(so they are monitoring you, but only "just because we could do it" not because "in the context of our mission, it worth to do it". If my assumption is true - high chances, I'd estimate - it tells a bit about how intelligent are the "intelligence" agencies. Careful when they start to redefine their mission to fit what they can actually do).
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18 2014, @05:04AM
(Score: 2) by DrMag on Monday August 18 2014, @02:30PM
Interesting site; anyone know what was significant about 26 Dec 2013? That was an interesting day in the US apparently...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rune of Doom on Monday August 18 2014, @02:24AM
"It's not illegal because no human being is ever looking at the information!"
No doubt, soon to be followed by, "It's not illegal because no human being made the decision to shut off utilities / schedule the raid / fire the missile."
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Monday August 18 2014, @02:36AM
How's the weather today, Skynet? Still clouded in nuclear winter? I see. Is the extermination going well? Yes? I guess that's good.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 5, Interesting) by martyb on Monday August 18 2014, @02:38AM
Okay, so the NSA creates this system to "fight" perceived threats. I'd wager that with this being publicized that other actors, if they have not already, are considering implementing something similar. For the sake of argument, imagine that Russia and China have implemented something similar.
From TFS:
Let's try a hypothetical situation.
The NSA's MonsterMind\ detects an attack from, let's say China, and automatically acts to shut it down and launch an automated counter-attack. One would expect the response to not come directly from NSA headquarters. Rather, it would be from some other locations scattered about the internet. Further, in an effort to provide some plausible deniability, I wouldn't be surprised if some amount of the response is routed from/through other nation's infrastructure. Fire up some bots in Russia and have those attack targets in China.
Meanwhile, the Chinese system detects these counter-attacks and reacts in the same way; it tries to shut down the attacks and launch counter-attacks. The Chinese fire up some bots in the USA and Russia and have those attack the USA.
Now the Russians are involved. What do they do? Try to stem the flow meanwhile firing up their attacks on both the USA and China. For more fun, they've got their own army of bots in both countries which they bring into play.
Let's assume each party escalated its response by 50% more than what it saw coming in so as to try and knock out the other side and to bypass their countermeasures. Let's also assume that every minute on the minute, each system takes stock of the situation and reassesses the response. They're not backing down? Crank it up another 50%.
Within 10 minutes, a relatively small 100 terabit/sec attack turns into each party throwing over 5.7 exabit/sec at each other.
I'm sure there's lots of heuristics in place that make this simple-minded illustration laughable, but all it takes is a small miscalculation or misinterpretation to get things spiraling out of control.
This hypothetical was brought to you by MAID (Mutually Assured Internet Destruction).
Wit is intellect, dancing. I'm too old to act my age. Life is too important to take myself seriously.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday August 18 2014, @03:49AM
First, let's call it as in should be: Monstrous Assured Internet Destruction.
Second, you know what's even funnier? There is no need the instigators to be state-actors - 4chan can call in the MAID on their own... say... just for the lulz.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Monday August 18 2014, @09:01AM
Or some routers with a software bug.
So they will need to have considerable restraint built into the systems - especially given that most of the attacks won't be obvious both in who's doing it and that they actually are attacking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18 2014, @12:18PM
Or an error in MonsterMind itself, causing it to misinterpret a completely normal traffic spike.
(Score: 2) by khallow on Monday August 18 2014, @10:42PM
Or, I suppose, a completely imaginary event as well. And should MonsterMind ever get coopted by an attacker (which is a worry you don't really have with nuclear weapons unless you hook them up to SkyNet), then that could be an impressive mess since deliberately using such a system for the most destructive ends you can come up with probably is a lot worse than any accidents you could think up.
Basically, the problem is that any oversight is by its nature going to be top secret. They can't say what safeguards, if any, they have in place or what triggering threshold MonsterMind will have. The only indication that MonsterMind isn't working correctly will be when it goes off and attacks someone. Even then, we might not realize (outside of the minders of the Mind) that it was MonsterMind that did that damage.
Given the abusable access to internet traffic it will require (the NSA is basically pinky swearing that it'll only use that access for MonsterMind activities), that's another huge source of trouble that won't be readily obvious until it bites us years down the road.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday August 18 2014, @04:40AM
Ah! But that's precisely why it would be the first Artificial Intelligence when it doesn't do anything like that even if told to :3
And if there's MAID there absolutely also has to be Counter Attack Tactics Guarding Internet Routing Locations. That is a contractually nonnegotiable requirement :)
[On as serious note: MonsterMind and "the Expert", are they different names for the same functionality? Sorry no link to the mentioning of "the Expert" but it's in the publicized material somewhere, possibly through Bruce Schneier's blog, possibly at The Intercept, happy hunting!]
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 2) by monster on Monday August 18 2014, @01:48PM
Looks like your scenario is plausible:
NSA/GCHQ/CESC Infecting Innocent Computers Worldwide [schneier.com].
If a person does it, it's a felony. If a government does it, it's ok.
(Score: 1) by gznork26 on Monday August 18 2014, @03:58AM
All of which sounds like the scenario laid out many decades ago in the movie (and book) Colossus: The Forbin Project. In that scenario, the AI also interpreted attempts to shut it down as an attack, and reacted to that as well. Skynet, indeed.
Khipu were Turing complete.
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Monday August 18 2014, @04:23AM
I thought that Eagle Eye [wikipedia.org] was a closer scenario. You might have missed that film because it wasn't one of Shia LaBeouf's highest grossing films.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Monday August 18 2014, @04:46AM
That's an awesome movie, well before its time.
I like the ambiguity of the title -- it can be interpreted as Colossus was Forbin's project, or that Forbin was being studied by Colossus.
I've been meaning to read the original novel; it has two sequels that weren't covered in the movie.
The current stuff is also reminiscent of "The Machine' in Person of Interest, which is a fun TV series, especially in the post-Snowden era.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday August 18 2014, @04:20AM
Monster's Ball, what we end up with after the Monster Mind has had its way, and we have to execute it, and all those NSA spooks who thought (through lack of, um, intelligence!!!) that they were the patriots. But if Halle Berry stars, sounds like a really good movie, even if really, really creepy at levels I've not yet begun to fathom. Oh, Absolham!
(Score: 1) by GeminiDomino on Tuesday August 19 2014, @01:17PM
And it is on that day that a hacker known only by the handle "Jayce" would create history. What began as a simple afternoon wardrive would become the greatest adventure of our time!
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture"