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posted by n1 on Friday August 22 2014, @09:48PM   Printer-friendly
from the more-butter dept.

For decades, butter has been the most vilified nutrient in the American diet but Time Magazine's cover story says that new science reveals that fat isn’t what’s hurting our health (paywalled). According to Time, scientists were wrong to label saturated fats the enemy — that carbs, sugar and processed foods are mainly to blame for obesity, diabetes and other weight-related diseases, according to a growing body of research and that Americans should reconsider the role saturated fats play in our diets.

Some of the confusion comes from the decades-long war on trans fats, the artificially produced artery-clogging ingredient found in baked goods and desserts. Science has shown that trans fats are harmful because they increase risk of heart disease because they both raise level of bad cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of good cholesterol (HDL). Last year, the Food and Drug Administration said it would require food makers to phase out trans fats. "I do agree butter, along with other saturated fats like poultry skin, coconut oil, full fat dairy and certain cuts of red meat, are no longer the enemy," says TODAY diet expert Joy Bauer. "Unfortunately when fat was vilified back in the 1970s, we replaced those fats with…you guessed it…refined carbohydrates. That’s why we’re in trouble now."

According to Dr. Fred Kummerow, the 99-year old pioneer of trans-fat research and one of the first scientists to assert a link between heart disease and processed foods, the saturated fat in butter, cheese and meats does not contribute to the clogging of arteries — and in fact is beneficial in moderate amounts in the context of a healthy diet. “What I really want is to see trans fats gone finally,” says Kummerow, “and for people to eat better and have a more accurate understanding of what really causes heart disease.”

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Friday August 22 2014, @09:57PM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @09:57PM (#84499) Journal
    'nuf said.
    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday August 22 2014, @10:39PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday August 22 2014, @10:39PM (#84510) Homepage

      The label on a carton of unsweetened, unadulterated coconut milk says that one serving is 20 % your daily allowance of saturated fat, causing you to bellow, "Holy shit!," but those saturated fats are actually Medium-Chain Fatty Acids, [meltorganic.com] which are very good for you.

      In fact, unsweetened coconut milk is my favorite hangover cure (as with all hangover cures, you should ideally start after you finish drinking booze instead of waiting until next morning), even better than Pedialyte. For starters, coconut milk has a lot of calcium carbonate, the active ingredient in a lot of antacids, which soothes your ulcerous post-drinking-and-junk-food-eat rotgut as well as replenish the calcium you lost. Coconut milk also contains a lot of vitamins and other electrolytes, and if you drink a lot between the time you stop drinking and the time you wake up, then you will not even notice your hangover. It also doesn't have that soury vaguely oily back-tongue sensation of animal milk and has the consistency of water which is refreshing to a dehydrated person. Just be sure to shake the container everytime before you open it, because it does have the tendency to coagulate.

      Stimulate your economy and give coconut milk a try. And, by the way, coconut water tastes fucking disgusting. Go for the milk instead. Unsweetened is best for your health but sweetened and vanilla flavors could also serve as a relatively healthy dessert with their tastes similar to horchata and other rice-puddingish things.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by DECbot on Friday August 22 2014, @11:02PM

        by DECbot (832) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:02PM (#84514) Journal

        Thanks for the tip!

        I'd looking forward to trying this out. NOTE TO SELF: Must schedule binge drinking in the near future.

        --
        cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
        • (Score: 2) by DECbot on Friday August 22 2014, @11:05PM

          by DECbot (832) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:05PM (#84516) Journal

          Ack! I did preview this before posting, but now I see the obvious mistake.
          s/I'd/I'm/

          --
          cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by sjames on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:26AM

            by sjames (2882) on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:26AM (#84557) Journal

            I just figured you'd started that binge and forgot.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:18PM (#84518)

        "You put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up"?

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday August 22 2014, @11:36PM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @11:36PM (#84523) Journal

        Stimulate your economy and give coconut milk a try.

        (who's economy again? Kill the orangutans? Must be drunk to do that :) [xkcd.org] )

        My solution to drinking and hangover, which I learned during the cold winters in the geo area I grew up:

        1. never drink only, but eat and drink. Munch bits of mostly fatty food: smoked bacon (mmmm) and/or mature cheeses - you may add a (small) side of picked vegetables or olives. Takes you quite a long way into a bottle [wikipedia.org] of 60 AVB or over [wikipedia.org] - long both in time and quantity required to get you down (you may want to stop before that, after all it's not about drinking but having a good time with your friends)
        2. never drink water or coffee or tea the first thing next morning, its very tempting but it will simply wash whatever garbage in your stomach and upper gut further down (if you don't know what alcohol will do in your lower guts, you may want to inform yourself)... The best thing is a thick oxtail and tripe soup or whatever protein rich soup you prefer. You know? the kind of slow cooked soup, you can cook it while you take your time working on that bottle(s). The kind of soup which would turn to jelly at room temperature, but don't let it reach that point.
          Apart from being quite pleasant to taste (at least my taste), the proteins are amfoter [wikipedia.org] and will do a great job in neutralizing any excess of acid or bile (which is a base stuff). Also the protein will act on whatever excess of alcohol may still be in your guts - you'll still absorb it, but at a lower rate. The water in the soup will rehydrate you (and give you a reasons to piss all those acetaldehydes faster), the rest will have a good nutritional value to kick your metabolism back into a normal regime.
        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:47PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:47PM (#84528)

          you may add a (small) side of picked vegetables or olives

          Curious, was that by chance a typo? picked or pickled? Only asking cause I have been told in the past that over in Germany and other places that they often have pickle juice along with their beer in part for hangover avoidance. The vinegar variety, not the brined I think.

          • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday August 22 2014, @11:59PM

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:59PM (#84533) Homepage

            This is now a hangover avoidance discussion.

            Is there any scientific, or even folkloric, basis to chugging pickle juice? Drinking vinegar is harsh even on a sober person.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:16AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:16AM (#84541) Journal

              This is now a hangover avoidance discussion.

              Still making more (nutritional) sense than anything I heard from the "fat is the enemy" advice I have been fed for the last 30 years.

              Is there any scientific, or even folkloric, basis to chugging pickle juice? Drinking vinegar is harsh even on a sober person.

              First, I may use pickle juice but only from brine pickles (which will get it sourness from the lactic acid produced during anaerobic fermentation) - not the vinegar ones, those are evil indeed. (unfortunately, pickling in brine tend to work badly in warmer climates - the pickling process goes too fast and pickles spoil easily).
              The salt may force your organism to retain more water and/or rebalance your electrolytes if you binge on beer (so it may help with dehydration), but in my case it doesn't work too well. However, used as a side dish while drinking helps the same way the salt/lime help with tequilla (be them brine or vinegar pickles).

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:16AM

              by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:16AM (#86612) Homepage

              Try balsamic vinegar, it can be almost mild enough to drink just because it tastes good. Trader Joe's has it for cheap.

              --
              And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:04AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:04AM (#84535) Journal
            A typo: pickled indeed. Pickled in brine is more a norm where I grew up.
            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 1) by Whoever on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:39AM

        by Whoever (4524) on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:39AM (#84607) Journal

        In fact, unsweetened coconut milk is my favorite hangover cure (as with all hangover cures, you should ideally start after you finish drinking booze instead of waiting until next morning),

        According to a recent NPR interview of someone who has researched this, powerful anti-inflammatory drugs are the solution to hangovers. Of course, these drugs are not available in the USA, and only under prescription in Europe. He also suggested that more alcohol (ethanol) would help, as one suggestion for the cause of hangovers is trace amounts of methanol (really!) in alcoholic drinks. Ethanol is routinely used to treat methanol poisoning. IAMAD (I am not a doctor!).

        • (Score: 1) by Whoever on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:42AM

          by Whoever (4524) on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:42AM (#84608) Journal

          s/IAMAD/IANAD/ -- definitely, I am not a doctor!

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cyrano on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:40AM

        by cyrano (1034) on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:40AM (#84637) Homepage

        Coconut is a very bad example...

        And that goes for coconut milk, juice and fat. And even for palm oil.

        The only reason palmoil and coconut oil surfaced as healthy foods is that the food industry built a gigantic refinery in Rotterdam and is making a lot of money converting healthy, cheap fats into an adulteration that can be labeled healthy because it complies to the EC's "healthy" list for fats.

        Basically, the same story as all margarines

        .

        If you want healthy, stick to oils that have a naturally healthy composition, such as olive oil and most other natural oils.

        Coconut and palm fat are not intrinsically unhealthy. But incorporated into a typical western diet with a lot of sugar and modified starch, it becomes very unhealthy. And I even don't care if you consider your diet as non-western because you eat a lot of sushi, or even if you're vegetarian. You still eat a lot of sugars and modified starch, unless you are growing your own food and cooking fresh every day.

        Western convenience food is a killer. Read the labels.

        Oh, and by the way, "Science" isn't to blame for all of this. "Science" was right all the time. It was only popular science, the blogosphere and food supplement peddlers that were creating FUD like "butter will clog your arteries". Of course, some MD's will never be able to resist mainstream and start hollering along, helped by the pharma industry who lives by FUD.

        If you live in a climate that supports coconut trees, chances are your diet will sync with coconut. If you eat local and fresh, that is. The people of Samoa, on which the first study of coconut's health properties is grounded, only started having artery problems after the arrival of McDo and Coca-Cola. That's when they started to eat more sugar and less coconut and palm oil.

        --
        The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear. - Kali [kali.org]
      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:16PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:16PM (#84653) Homepage Journal

        Raw egg yolk!

        The reason eggnog is a traditional holiday drink is because it's supposedly a hangover cure, that raw egg yolks contain an enzyme that cures hangover, but the enzyme is destroyed by heat. I have no idea if this is scientifically valid or just a folk tale.

        Eggnog is just milk, egg yolk, sugar, cinnamon and rum. Of course, "hair of the dog" will alleviate your hangover somewhat, because part of a hangover is being dehydrated but part is it's actually a physical withdrawal symptom.

        Outer space hangover [soylentnews.org]

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Sunday August 24 2014, @08:08PM

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Sunday August 24 2014, @08:08PM (#85052) Journal

        "And, by the way, coconut water tastes fucking disgusting."

        Have you ever drank it strait out of a green, young coconut before it turns brown and hard on the inside? If not then that is why you think it gross. I have had it fresh off the tree in Florida and it is really good. The only time I have tasted gross coconut water from a coconut is when they turn brown and hard. For the store bought canned stuff, Foco and Coco Libre are my two favorites.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by davester666 on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:01PM

      by davester666 (155) on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:01PM (#84749)

      Only really useful phrase in the summary:

      "and in fact is beneficial in moderate amounts in the context of a healthy diet"

      words to live by.

      • (Score: 2) by cykros on Sunday August 24 2014, @08:43PM

        by cykros (989) on Sunday August 24 2014, @08:43PM (#85067)

        Considering how much fat the human brain uses to insulate neurons, it's always terrified me to see the rabid anti-fat crowd go...especially when they're breeding.

        For the love of god, give the kid some whole milk!

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:25AM

          by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:25AM (#86616) Homepage

          And thanks to the statin craze, we're going to see a spasm of disorders that are basically the same as multiple sclerosis: nerves stripped of their insulation, which is mostly built of cholesterol (and it's not like the side effect of loss of sensation due to nerve damage is unknown). Consider also that high cholesterol is now known to be protective against mental deterioration in folks over 80...

          Dr.Eades (proteinpower.com) wrote an article on the origins of this low-cholesterol bullshit, and turns out it was largely the work of a vegetarian with an agenda. He also points out that cell walls are likewise largely cholesterol, and that reducing this may allow easier entry of cancer-triggering viruses.

          I actually uses half-and-half, which at least sorta resembles the milk I grew up with. (But not the half-and-half I grew up with.)

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by cykros on Saturday August 30 2014, @05:38PM

            by cykros (989) on Saturday August 30 2014, @05:38PM (#87597)

            I wish it was a little later in the day that I came across this reply. It'd have me reaching over for some heavy cream to make a white russian with.

            The only thing worse than hearing all the health nuts denouncing my fun is finding out after listening to them a little here and there that alcohol and fat are actually better for you than listening to health nuts!

            All that said, I'll still keep my distance from too much refined sugar, bleached refined flour, and preservatives. Not so much because of health issues (which I do have my hypotheses about), but simply because their inclusion tends to make good food worse. It hardly makes sense to be living in the breadbasket of the world, with more abundant food of different sorts than anywhere on the planet, and then...eating food that just doesn't taste particularly good. At that point, soylent starts seeming more reasonable, because while it may not actually taste any better than Nabisco anything, it can't be much worse, and it sure is cheaper... Anyone got any good soylent cocktail recipes put together yet?

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @10:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @10:15PM (#84503)

    Nutritionists don't know shit. One thing one day, the opposite the next day. Just maintain some variety to your diet and listen to your body.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Friday August 22 2014, @10:33PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @10:33PM (#84508) Journal

      and listen to your body.

      Which part of my body? Because my gustatory system (in its foolishness) just loves the taste of KFC stuff.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday August 22 2014, @10:40PM

        by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @10:40PM (#84511)

        Don't ignore the stomach dinosaurs or the urgent sounds coming out the rear. Those factor into your KFC diet too : )

        --
        SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:43PM (#84751)

        Like I said, maintain some variety, mix it up a little. Extra Crispy one day, Original Recipe on other days. When your body crave some quality, go to Popeye's. Mix it up.

    • (Score: 2) by ragequit on Friday August 22 2014, @10:33PM

      by ragequit (44) on Friday August 22 2014, @10:33PM (#84509) Journal

      Interestingly enough, when my does things I can listen to, it's usually my digestive system doing the talking!
      Farts, Burps, and belly-gurgles. When things are going badly, sometimes all three!!

      --
      The above views are fabricated for your reading pleasure.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:10PM (#84517)

      Been listening to my dick for years and nothin' but problems. Don't do it folks.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 22 2014, @11:42PM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @11:42PM (#84526) Journal

        Been listening to my dick for years and nothin' but problems.

        Those are transient problems, will go away with age. Those are nothing in comparison with a six pack ab [bestdemotivationalposters.com], trust me.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by velex on Saturday August 23 2014, @05:53PM

      by velex (2068) on Saturday August 23 2014, @05:53PM (#84718) Journal

      Totally agreed. They don't even understand how food influences gut bacteria, but actual scientists have established that gut bacteria has an important role in health.

      The only answer is more science! Tell me whether eating gardenburgers (so yummy—never confuse with nasty boca burgers—, yumminess only exceeded by cheeseburgers made with Laura's Lean grass fed beef, but that's a bit expensive so reserved for special occasions) will help me cultivate the gut bacteria that will make me thin or whether I need celery and carrots! Should I use a ranch, bleu cheese, or vinaigrette dressing?! How will the decision to eat organic pasta or a steak influence my gut bacteria? What role does tea vs. coffee play? What if I smoke weed or do crack cocaine? I'm specifically interested in the weight loss (wasting) properties of crack-cocaine. Not because I'd ever do it (prefer weed), but because I want to know where its weight loss properties come from. Nobody knows! That's troubling.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:03PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @11:03PM (#84515)

    ,,but when will something get done about it? Other then a lot of effort to produce studies that deny its true.

    Now that everything tastes no where near as good as it used to.

    Now that marbling has been modified out of beef in particular. Making it tougher and less tasty.

    The best commercially produced French fries, back when it was possible, came the places that:
    1: Kept their processed fries frozen till time to cook and serve them. Or even better used relatively dry chilled fresh cut potatoes.
    2: Used a gas type fryer with a high volume of rendered animal fats in its cooking tank set to 350 degrees Fahrenheit.
    3: Never dropped more then a half basket at a time.
    4: Keep salt and water away from fryer at all times to the greatest extent possible.
    5: Filter or replace the oil at every shut down.
    Done that way and lifting basket to drain when the bubbles slow to a near stop around the fries, it will produce consistent batches of hot, crispy on the outside, tender on the inside French Fries that taste delicious. Salting is done on the side after removal from the cooking basket.

    The list goes on and off course if this comes out anything like the French study years ago that showed that the body does not store milk fat as fat either then it will no doubt be ignored. Heck the studies showed the milk fats passed straight through as is for the most part. Always annoyed me that over 40 years ago I was taught in school that the body stored fats as oils when it actually stored it and it was carbohydrates/sugars that it stored as fat. But heck, that was just grade school science.

    Slightly Offtopic on this part but while ranting about fats and oils I have to say I miss peanut butter. Not any whole foods etc in this area and thus all the locals carry is the name brand and generic crap they pass off as "peanut butter" these days. When I was a kid peanut butter's ingredients list was "peanuts" and nothing but, it would separate a bit of the peanut oil which you could stir back into it before taking some out or you could drain some of the oil, these days all the peanut oil is pressed out and GMO grain oils mixed in instead and then sugar and/or High Fructose Corn Syrup mixed in to try and cover up the damage the GMO oils do to the taste and just because they put that pointlessly into almost every prepared food these days.

    • (Score: 2) by BradTheGeek on Friday August 22 2014, @11:56PM

      by BradTheGeek (450) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:56PM (#84531)

      The do not put it in pointlessly. The sale prive of the extracted peanut oil is higher than the inserted vegetable oils. Whether this price difference is artificial is debatable.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:11AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:11AM (#84537)

        Yes, peanut oil has gotten absurdly overpriced over the years and will agree that is their reason for removing it and adding the GMO crap instead. "Pointlessly" used in the above referencing the addition of sugar/High Fructose Cony Syrup/dextrose which additionally makes peanut butter less usable to diabetics as an energy snack. Current versions of peanut butter less useful to haemophiliacs too I would think, but hey, I am not a doctor.

        Peanut oil is one of the most heat tolerant of edible oils and was what the diesel engine was originally designed to run on as well as it has tons of uses for making other things. Most traceable back to George Washington Carver's research.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by el_oscuro on Friday August 22 2014, @11:58PM

      by el_oscuro (1711) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:58PM (#84532)

      You can still find those in regular grocery stores. I know Safeway has them and if you can find it there, you should be able to find it anywhere. The name brands have versions, you just have to look for them. It will usually have "natural" or some other bullshit on the label, but you have to look at the ingredients. Easiest way to check is to look at the peanut butter itself. If it is separated, it is probably good. But check the ingredients anyway.

      --
      SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:58AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:58AM (#84565)

      My body doesn't store butter or nut oils (especially cashews) as fat, my body excretes those oils - on my face...

      Eat a bunch of fatty food, get nose grease.

      • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:38AM

        by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:38AM (#86624) Homepage

        Greasy skin and coat in dogs is a symptom of fatty acid deficiency, notably linoleic and linolinic acids. The skin tries to make up for the lack by secreting more lubricant oils. So to get rid of that greasy coat, the cure is to increase fat in the diet.

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:35AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:35AM (#86621) Homepage

      I remember when peanut butter changed, and it wasn't a fat substitution that was to blame. The difference came when they started double-grinding the peanuts, around 25 years ago. This made for mushy, flavorless peanut butter despite no other changes in the formula. I was so annoyed that I called the maker of my formerly-fave peanut butter and demanded an explanation.

      So why was it done? This was concurrent with a huge spike in energy costs. Peanut butter made from double-ground peanuts has a much lower melting point (it's soft to nearly liquid at room temperature, whereas before, it was stiff, and required considerable heat to melt). I think the whole motivation was that the double-ground peanut slurry requires less heat to keep it moving in the pipes between grinder and jar.

      The texture can be improved by keeping it in the fridge, but the flavor is still grossly lacking compared to what it was like when the peanuts were single-ground.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Friday August 22 2014, @11:21PM

    by darkfeline (1030) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:21PM (#84519) Homepage

    It's great that science is moving forward, but this shouldn't be surprising news. Eat a balanced diet. Don't down sticks of butter, or bags of chips. McDonalds shouldn't be your home. Don't poison yourself on greens (vegetarians take note). Instead, take a salad today, a nice steak tomorrow. A mango today, tiramisu tomorrow. Even McDonalds once a year shouldn't screw you over (although McDonalds, strictly speaking, can't be called food, but whatever).

    --
    Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 22 2014, @11:49PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 22 2014, @11:49PM (#84530) Journal

      Eat a balanced diet.

      Hell of a good for nothing advice!!!
      Look, I swear I put my beer on a balance and it's quite balanced when I start drinking. And I even take two bottles at a time and drink from them equally, just to keep that balance true. In spite of it, I still have problems with that belly

      (ducks)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:23AM

      by sjames (2882) on Saturday August 23 2014, @08:23AM (#84626) Journal

      In this case, it's more like getting back to where it was decades ago. We took a serious wrong turn that involved advising people to cut out a healthy part of their diet and replace it with artery clogging poison and massive intake of carbs so their food wouldn't taste too much like cardboard.

      Aren't we all owed at least an apology? In particular from the marketers that jumped right on the mis-information to promote a barely acceptable trans-fat laden wartime substitute for butter into a 'healthy choice'.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by RedBear on Friday August 22 2014, @11:45PM

    by RedBear (1734) on Friday August 22 2014, @11:45PM (#84527)

    I base the following statements on my current understanding of the results of research like "The China Study" (the largest medical study of human populations and diets ever undertaken) and Dr. John McDougall's "The Starch Solution".

    The biggest problem with nutritional guidance for the last century is all these blanket statements that have been made after studying isolated nutritional components and jumping to conclusions. Blanket statements like "Fat is bad", "Carbs are bad", have all ended up being nonsense when you look at the big picture. The human metabolic system is incredibly complex and so are the selections of foods that we have eaten throughout history. If one examines all the different diets being promoted one thing keeps coming to the forefront, which is that the healthiest diet seems to be one that is highly varied, high in fiber, low in processed sugars, and mostly consists of unprocessed (aka "whole foods") plant matter with small amounts of animal proteins.

    All over the world the populations that primarily consume complex carbohydrates (aka "starches"), vegetables and fruits along with a relatively tiny amount of animal proteins are universally the leanest, most resilient people with ridiculously low incidences of cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, dementia, inflammatory and autoimmune disorders, and several forms of cancer such as breast, colon and prostate cancers. Meanwhile, the populations that consume the highest quantities of animal products (and processed sugars) are the populations with the highest incidence of all the aforementioned health issues. I think the fact that much of the animal products we consume happen to come packaged with high amounts of fats, especially saturated fats, is what has thrown the medical establishment off the scent for the last few decades.

    There is only one type of diet that has been clinically shown not just to _not_ cause cardiovascular disease but to actually _reverse_ atherosclerosis, and that is the starch-based whole-foods diet espoused by Drs. McDougall, Campbell and Esselstyn and others. No medication or other type of diet can say that. None. At best, the most powerful medications we have now can drop your cholesterol numbers by a small percentage. All they do is attempt to hold the symptoms of a bad diet in check, while doing nothing about the underlying cause of the disease. The starch-based whole-foods diet has been shown to take extremely sick people with one foot in the grave and let them live in excellent health long after their doctors told them to "go home and wait to die".

    Just to be clear, the evidence is not telling us that fat is now "good", it's just telling us that the fats aren't the component that is the primary cause of cardiovascular disease. There is nothing beneficial to consuming large quantities of fats of any kind. Adding fats to foods is never "healthy". Eating foods that naturally have some amount of fats in them is fine, as long as it remains part of a varied, balanced diet.

    Recommended reading:

    The China Study
    The Starch Solution

    Recommended viewing:

    YouTube videos of Dr. McDougall talking about starch
    Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead
    Forks Over Knives

    --
    ¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
    ... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:23AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 23 2014, @12:23AM (#84545) Journal

      Adding fats to foods is never "healthy".

      Exaggerating much? (hint: oils are fats. Like fish oil or olive oil or nut oils consumed for centuries by entire populations which never had the problems we are seeing today).

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by RedBear on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:06AM

        by RedBear (1734) on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:06AM (#84549)

        Exaggerating much? (hint: oils are fats. Like fish oil or olive oil or nut oils consumed for centuries by entire populations which never had the problems we are seeing today).

        I am well aware that oils are fats. I exaggerate nothing. My statement was that there is no health _benefit_ to adding any amount of _extra_ fats (oils or any other kind of fat) to any diet. Thus the blanket statement that "Fat is good for you" is false, just as the blanket statement that "Fat is bad for you" was (mostly) false. The best that can be said is that certain fats like olive oil, coconut oil, canola oil and fish oil are _less_ _harmful_ than many other kinds of _added_ fats. Consuming said fats in their natural form as part of the foods they come from is fine, again, as part of a varied diet that contains many other foods. Feel free to subsist on a diet of nothing but "healthy" avocados, nuts and coconuts for a year and see how much healthier you become.

        I must reemphasize that I am talking mainly about _added_ fats and the difference between something being dietarily neutral or unhealthy and being dietarily beneficial. Fiber is beneficial, vegetables and starches and fruits are beneficial, small amounts of fat-containing foods like avocados and nuts and maybe even oily fish are beneficial. But adding additional fats? Not beneficial in any way. There is nothing "good" about fats. They just aren't nearly _as_ _bad_ as they've been made out to be in the past. Don't get the two concepts confused.

        I realize that the concept that certain fats like olive oil are "healthy" has been bandied about for quite some time now, but if you really look at why they say this you'll see that it is A) mostly in the context of olive oil being "slightly less bad" than other oils which is clearly not the same thing as actually being able to improve your health, and B) based on the fact that olive oil has been primarily studied as part of the "Mediterranean Diet". However if you look at the Mediterranean diet you'll see that it's a primarily plant-based diet with maybe a little fish, and if you extract the "healthy" olive oil from the beneficial diet and lifestyle it's been classically associated with, there are no actual health _benefits_ to be obtained from adding olive oil to an otherwise healthy diet. By extension, it certainly won't improve an unhealthy diet in any way.

        Hopefully I have restated this a sufficient number of ways so that it is very clear what I am saying and what I am _not_ saying. Whether you believe any of this is true is of course up to you.

        --
        ¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
        ... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:12AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:12AM (#84552) Journal

          Hopefully I have restated this a sufficient number of ways so that it is very clear what I am saying and what I am _not_ saying.

          Fortunately, yes you had.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by RedBear on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:43AM

            by RedBear (1734) on Saturday August 23 2014, @01:43AM (#84561)

            Hopefully I have restated this a sufficient number of ways so that it is very clear what I am saying and what I am _not_ saying.

            Fortunately, yes you had.

            Excellent. Like any good pedantic nerd who just recently ingested at least 150mg of caffeine (two Excedrin and a Diet Coke), I would hate to be misunderstood. (Score: 5, Funny)

            Here's wishing you good health in whatever way you choose to pursue it. Cheers. *clink* (Score: 5, Virtual Internet Toast)

            --
            ¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
            ... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:10AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:10AM (#84575) Journal

              Here's wishing you good health in whatever way you choose to pursue it.

              Thanks. As a result of the extra precision in the argumentation which made me aware of the risks, in respect with my future I resolved to never add any other oils to my daily intake of bacon, no matter how healthy different dieticians would say they are.
              Cheers.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by sjames on Saturday August 23 2014, @07:59AM

          by sjames (2882) on Saturday August 23 2014, @07:59AM (#84623) Journal

          Actually, fats have a few really great characteristics. First and foremost, they promote satiety both directly and by enhancing the flavor of food. By removing it for the past few years, we have managed to stuff people with calories and at the same time cause their hunger to well outlast actual need for food intake. Some added fat can make people consume less calories over-all.

          Next up, they don't spike blood sugar. No high followed by a crash with fats. They, like proteins keep your energy up in a sustained way.

          Unless you live in the Arctic I'm not saying eat a block of blubber, but added fat in moderation can be a very good thing.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RedBear on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:48PM

            by RedBear (1734) on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:48PM (#84734)

            I would offer up the possibility that we've been removing so much fat from so many foods for so long that many times when we say we're "adding" fats to food we're really just replacing what was removed in an attempt to get back to a "normal" fat content.

            Essentially we're all in agreement that attempting to remove naturally occurring fats from foods to create "low fat" and "fat free" versions has been a nutritional disaster for the Western diet, and adding excessive amounts of additional fats in isolation has also been a nutritional disaster. They are good right where they are, in the forms and quantities in which they naturally occur in all sorts of foods. Don't avoid them, and don't add any more than trace amounts for flavor. Pretty simple.

            --
            ¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
            ... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:40AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 28 2014, @05:40AM (#86626) Homepage

            If you can still see the food, there's not enough butter!!

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 2) by AnonTechie on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:54AM

      by AnonTechie (2275) on Saturday August 23 2014, @06:54AM (#84610) Journal

      Do you have information about this:

      Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease:
      http://ornishspectrum.com/ [ornishspectrum.com] [ornishspectrum.com]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Ornish [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org]

      I would be interested to know what you think about Dr. Ornish.

      --
      Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
      • (Score: 2) by RedBear on Saturday August 23 2014, @05:43PM

        by RedBear (1734) on Saturday August 23 2014, @05:43PM (#84714)

        I haven't looked specifically at Dr. Dean Ornish's program but I've heard of him. Sounds like he advocates pretty much the same type of diet that Caldwell and Esselstyn have clinically shown to reverse heart disease. Whole-foods, plant-based diet, moderate exercise and reduction of stress. All things that as far as I can tell nobody can argue as being unhealthy. McDougall simply stresses that our primary source of calories and energy should be "starchy" foods (i.e., complex carbohydrates) like grains, beans, legumes, rice and potatoes, with vegetables and fruits just playing a supporting role to provide more fiber, vitamins and minerals.

        As far as I can tell, the only nutrient component missing from an entirely plant-based diet is B12, which is easily supplemented. Plants contain plenty of everything else, including proteins and all the essential fatty acids. So I've been giving it a try. Already my blood pressure, which has always been very high, has dropped significantly in just a few weeks, with no medication. Even though I'm doing a terrible job actually eating mostly unprocessed foods. So in my case at least I can say that it seems to be working.

        --
        ¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
        ... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
  • (Score: 1) by kaszz on Saturday August 23 2014, @02:08AM

    by kaszz (4211) on Saturday August 23 2014, @02:08AM (#84566) Journal

    Avoid synthetic food (E-numbers) and processed food that lost its original molecular structure (unless potato etc). Eat just plain natural food.

    And avoid the carbohydrate + fat combination.

    • (Score: 2) by migz on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:12AM

      by migz (1807) on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:12AM (#84633)

      I suggest you stop eating foods with E300, E101, oh and stop breathing air containing E948. The problem with E numbers is that they fail in their main purpose, which was to make things clearer. Now there are these random codes that you can't understand without a lookup table.

      Oh and maybe it's not too bad to ingest Vitamin C, B2. And air without oxygen, well ...

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday August 23 2014, @02:42PM

        by kaszz (4211) on Saturday August 23 2014, @02:42PM (#84666) Journal

        If the food needs E-numbers it's usually crap anyway. So one can skip it.

    • (Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Monday August 25 2014, @01:37PM

      by Rivenaleem (3400) on Monday August 25 2014, @01:37PM (#85313)

      How do you avoid e-numbers when they appear naturally?

      http://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/ingredients-of-an-all-natural-kiwi/ [wordpress.com]

      Would you eat a Kiwi if you knew what was in it?

      A lot of colourings and preservatives are derived from 'natural' sources.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday August 25 2014, @11:47PM

        by kaszz (4211) on Monday August 25 2014, @11:47PM (#85511) Journal

        Natural sources, but not natural processing..

        (or content ratio)

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:42AM

    by Snotnose (1623) on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:42AM (#84581)

    considering I bring about 100 lbs of fat with me everywhere I go.

    --
    In this month in 1958 Project Snot was started. This has upset many people and is widely considered a bad idea.
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by evilviper on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:21PM

    by evilviper (1760) on Saturday August 23 2014, @10:21PM (#84761) Homepage Journal

    Anybody who tells you that food X is bad and food Y is good for you, are full of crap. Whatever X and Y might be.

    After multi-year studies comparing the various diets (low-fat, low-car and Mediterranean) head-to-head, EVERYBODY lost weight, and the differences in their weight loss and health was nominal, well within the margin of error.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa0708681 [nejm.org]

    I'm not aware of a single study that has ever found any diet was significantly superior to another. Instead, you can eat whatever the hell you want, as long as you keep the calorie count in control.

    And while I don't want to take sides, there is one bit of perspective that gets lost in the noise of low-carb proponents ranting about some conspiracy theory on forums like this one: You will never find a top athlete on a low-carb diet. Research has repeatedly shown that low-carb diets can't maintain the necessary glycogen levels for extended high levels of exertion.

    --
    Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @11:39PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @11:39PM (#84784)

      >Research has repeatedly shown that low-carb diets can't maintain the necessary glycogen levels for extended high levels of exertion.

      Some exemplary research that was, obviously. It's a pity inuit hunters had been unaware of it, for the last few thousand years. :-)))

      • (Score: 1) by evilviper on Sunday August 24 2014, @02:46AM

        by evilviper (1760) on Sunday August 24 2014, @02:46AM (#84838) Homepage Journal

        Show me an Olympic-champion Inuit athlete...

        --
        Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 24 2014, @12:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 24 2014, @12:15PM (#84916)

          >Show me an Olympic-champion Inuit athlete...

          Show me a healthy [ex-]champion athlete first.
          These walking ads for Big Pharma turn into crawling ex-people pretty quickly, as a rule. Maybe trashing one's life for five minutes of fame feels worth it for some, but no way it can serve as example of living for a regular person. As a counter-example, maybe...