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posted by janrinok on Tuesday August 26 2014, @09:31PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the can-I-live-in-a-different-world-please? dept.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that a new nail polish called Undercover Colors changes color when it comes in contact with any date rape drug so, a woman just has to discretely dip her finger in her drink to test it for safety. "Our goal is to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves from this heinous and quietly pervasive crime," say four male undergraduates at North Carolina State University who are developing the polish and currently asking for donations to complete their work. "​Through this nail polish and similar technologies, we hope to make potential perpetrators afraid to spike a woman’s drink because there’s now a risk that they can get caught."

However some sexual assault prevention advocates warn that the nail polish is not necessarily the best way to approach the sexual assault epidemic on college campuses. “One of the ways that rape is used as a tool to control people is by limiting their behavior,” says Rebecca Nagle. “As a woman, I’m told not to go out alone at night, to watch my drink, to do all of these things. That way, rape isn’t just controlling me while I’m actually being assaulted — it controls me 24/7 because it limits my behavior. Solutions like these actually just recreate that. I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I’m at the bar. That’s not the world I want to live in.” According to Alexandra Brodsky the argument that women simply need to be more responsible is a common response to the current conversation about sexual assault on college campuses — and one that activists say doesn’t get to the heart of the issue. "The problem isn’t that women don’t know when there are roofies in their drink; the problem is people putting roofies in their drink in the first place."

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Tramii on Tuesday August 26 2014, @09:54PM

    by Tramii (920) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @09:54PM (#85934)

    I would think the NEXT step would be to embed their new tech into drinking glasses and sell them to bars. Then bars could use it as a marketing angle to attract more female customers.

    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:08AM

      by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:08AM (#86037) Journal

      Provided the detector substance isn't toxic by itself..

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by monster on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:24PM

        by monster (1260) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:24PM (#86249) Journal

        If it is toxic, putting it in the nails, which later would go into the glass to test the drink, or could go directly to the mouth/eyes, isn't any wiser.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:35PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:35PM (#86428)

          If it is on the glass, what happens when it goes through the dishwasher? if it chips and is ingested in moderate to large quantities by the drinker, are there health concerns? While I do like the idea of this being painted onto the glass, I think those are the kind of obstacles that might make it unlikely.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by richtopia on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:38PM

      by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:38PM (#86301) Homepage Journal

      Exists already, I remember this from some website that I liked before management and interface changed for the worse.

      http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/11/4611018/drinksavvy-glasses-straws-detect-date-rape-drugs [theverge.com]

  • (Score: 2) by Theophrastus on Tuesday August 26 2014, @09:54PM

    by Theophrastus (4044) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @09:54PM (#85935)

    it's kinda cool to have a chemistry test on one's nails, i guess; but wouldn't it just be more convenient to put it on a strip of paper (and you wouldn't have to worry as much about contact irritation etc). then design a fancy piece of jewelry (bracelet), or Mr-Yuck-PEZ dispenser amulet, which has a compartment for a stack of such strips. just as cool and allows one much more chemistry degrees of freedom.

    save the finger nail space for the digital display read-out of the pocket gas-chromatograph

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:06PM (#85941)

      Since cautious women already have their hand over the glass, it shouldn't be much effort to slip the tip of one finger into the drink. A bit easier and less conspicuous than dragging a slot of paper out of a bracelet.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:18PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:18PM (#85944)

      The point is that the user needs to be able to test a drink without alerting the guy who handed her a drink to the fact that she's testing it. There are two motivations for not alerting him:

      1. He might actually be a perfectly nice guy who just wanted to get her a drink and didn't spike it with anything, and she doesn't want to offend him by implying that she doesn't trust him.

      2. If a rapist realizes that she's on to him, there's a chance he'll try other methods such as simple brute force to get what he wants. Whereas if he's unaware that she knows, she has a better chance of finding her friends and getting away from him safely.

      (Feel free to change the genders of the people involved, but chances are that most users of this product will be women, because they're much more likely to be wearing any kind of nail polish and more likely to be the recipient of drinks rather than the giver of drinks. And chances are that most of the would-be rapists are men, because the vast majority of rapes are committed by men.)

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 2) by Theophrastus on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:07PM

        by Theophrastus (4044) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:07PM (#85965)

        wow. i didn't consider any of these more intricate niceties. honestly i was thinking more along the lines of having an extra bar service: "hey Frank! test this drink this 'nice' guy just bought for me"

        i bow to those with more subtle sensitivity to this whole sad and scary scene.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:52PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:52PM (#85979)

          Part of where I'm coming from: A very good friend of mine was drugged and raped within a few weeks of starting college, in part because she hadn't been taught about that risk or how to defend herself against it.

          The story gets worse after that: Her parents and the college counseled her not to report it to the police, or press charges. (Colleges often do that to keep their crime statistics down and appear more attractive to potential applicants.) Her rapist went on to rape many other classmates (he had a goal of 100 different victims), and was never charged.

          The sad fact is that stories like these are common, currently estimated at 1 out of every 6 women in America. If you're wondering why women often move in groups of friends, or are wary of men they've just met, this is why.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:14AM

            by mhajicek (51) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:14AM (#86012)

            And still some believe these women shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun for defense.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:24AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:24AM (#86020)

              > And still some believe these women shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun for defense.

              Because someone who is roofied can totally make effective use of a gun.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:42AM

                by mhajicek (51) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:42AM (#86029)

                More for the one who defends against the roofie, causing the rapist to resort to force.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:33AM

                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:33AM (#86168) Homepage
                  AC made a valid point, one I was going to make myself.

                  Your response to that makes absolutely no sense at all. I'm not even sure it parses. What does "defending" against a drug even mean? Were the pills being thrown at her aggressively? Is the firearm to be used as some kind of rounders bat to bat the pills away? And you think this is a good idea because the rapist will resort to force? You really are making no sense at all.

                  Let's keep things simple: How can someone under the influence of rohypnol accurately use a firearm?
                  --
                  I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
                  • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday August 28 2014, @02:53AM

                    by mhajicek (51) on Thursday August 28 2014, @02:53AM (#86562)

                    If the drug is in you then you've already lost. How do you defend against the drug? How about with the nail polish in TFA? The point was made elsewhere in this thread that a rapist may resort to force if attempts to drug fail. Then there are plenty who start with force. In either of these cases being armed is a significant advantage.

                    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 28 2014, @10:21PM

                      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday August 28 2014, @10:21PM (#86939) Homepage
                      So you think the only sensible response to finding rohypnol in your drink is to shoot the person who you think did it?

                      The mind boggles. Do you not live in a society with things like telephones, bar-staff, friends, or policemen?
                      --
                      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
                      • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday August 29 2014, @02:16AM

                        by mhajicek (51) on Friday August 29 2014, @02:16AM (#87015)

                        You're not following any of this, are you? Ok, let lay this out as simply as I can. There are many situations which result in someone being raped. Being drugged by a rapist is only one of them, and as I said before if the drug is in you then you've already lost. If the rapists attempt to drug you fails, or if he's unable to obtain the drug, or if he's simply inclined more to force, said rapist may wait until you leave the bar and ambush you in the alley or parking lot. Some may even forgo the bar entirely, electing to ambush their victim wherever it's convenient. In all of these cases, lethal force is an appropriate defense.

                        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday August 29 2014, @07:35AM

                          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday August 29 2014, @07:35AM (#87081) Homepage
                          You are particularly slow. "wait until you leave the bar and ambush you" - why, at that point, has the perpetrator of the crime not *already been arrested*?
                          You are saying, explicitly, either that it's more sensible to not have the guy arrested, and then to shoot him, or that you are too stupid to have the guy arrested and prefer to shoot him - which of the two is it? Are you stupid or a psychopath?
                          --
                          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
                          • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday August 30 2014, @03:31PM

                            by mhajicek (51) on Saturday August 30 2014, @03:31PM (#87572)

                            You would apparently prefer to sling insults rather than think. It is possible for a drugging attempt to fail without revealing the identity of the criminal, or even that a crime is attempted. Consider if the hand over the glass is sufficient defense against the drugging and the criminal skips the drugging attempt. Consider also if the criminal is not chatting you up when drugging your drink, but instead manages to do so without being noticed. Obviously it is preferable to have the criminal arrested if that is a reasonable possibility, but that is not always the case. You don't solve problems for the general case very often, do you?

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by velex on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:51PM

            by velex (2068) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:51PM (#86348) Journal

            Part of where I'm coming from: A very good friend of mine was drugged and raped within a few weeks of starting college, in part because she hadn't been taught about that risk or how to defend herself against it.

            Sorry to hear about it. Perhaps if colleges required women instead of assigned males, or maybe both, to attend presentations on date rape that might help with awareness. As it is, I got to hear all about date rape in college and how even being seen near a woman is enough evidence to be expelled, but unfortunately since I'm an individual, there's nothing I can do to change somebody else who's a date rapist.

            This would be good information for somebody who might be a victim to hear. Unfortunately, it's ineffective when it's being presented to individuals who have no intention of acquiring illegal drugs to have sex with unconscious women.

            The story gets worse after that: Her parents and the college counseled her not to report it to the police, or press charges. … Her rapist went on to rape many other classmates (he had a goal of 100 different victims), and was never charged.

            Maybe this has something to do with the "rape culture" problem.

            Unfortunately, colleges seem more concerned with flagging all assigned males rapists who merely haven't been caught yet, but maybe that's the real trick to having a "rape culture." They huff, they puff, they sexually harass and create a hostile environment, but then it's all for nothing because nobody gets prosecuted.

            (I did not use the word men for a reason.)

            • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 27 2014, @06:32PM

              by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @06:32PM (#86402)

              As it is, I got to hear all about date rape in college and how even being seen near a woman is enough evidence to be expelled, but unfortunately since I'm an individual, there's nothing I can do to change somebody else who's a date rapist.

              There's a lot of things you can do to keep women around you safe from rapists (other than not raping them, obviously). Some of the things that women mentioned on these [thestranger.com] threads [wordpress.com] on the subject:
              - Interrupting interactions between a woman and somebody who is acting creepy or abusive, just by saying something.
              - If you are in a position of power, make sure inappropriate behavior has consequences e.g. kicking someone out of a group for harassing women. If you aren't in a position of power, report this kind of thing to the people who do have power, and ensure they follow through.
              - Comfort and support women who have been raped. /sexually assaulted.
              - Make sure female friends who've had too much to drink get home safely, and ideally in the company of at least one female friend of hers.
              - Dropping any friends of yours who rape somebody, purely for that.
              - If one of your guy friends says or does something out of line in front of you, say that it's wrong, right there, right in front of him and anyone else who's around.
              - If you think one of your friends is going to rape somebody, don't leave them out of earshot/eyesight with their target.

              --
              The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
              • (Score: 2) by velex on Sunday September 28 2014, @02:18AM

                by velex (2068) on Sunday September 28 2014, @02:18AM (#99039) Journal

                I've thought about this for a long time.

                Let's start from a non-cissexist position.

                I think you're essentially right. It's about compassion. I know about date rape. You know about date rape. No matter what my gender is, why would I want to fail to protect a friend who has become targeted?

                If you aren't in a position of power, report this kind of thing to the people who do have power, and ensure they follow through.

                I've actually done this before. It was funny, though, because I later found out that my motion was meaningless. The womyn-born-womyn who I was concerned were being subjected to sexual harassment by a client actually ran with it and enjoyed it. I guess it just shows how out of touch I am. I'm still glad that sleazy client left. Maybe it was just me who was uncomfortable about the situation.

                Thanks for the response.

                • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Sunday September 28 2014, @03:54PM

                  by Thexalon (636) on Sunday September 28 2014, @03:54PM (#99233)

                  I used cis-gendered terminology for a very specific reason: The vast majority of rapes are cis-gendered straight men raping cis-gendered women. I'm well aware that there is no shortage of other cases, and have numerous trans friends, but in this case I'm targeting the biggest source of the problem.

                  As far as reporting goes, I'm quite certain you did the right thing, even if the womyn involved enjoyed what this client was doing - the sleazy behavior of that client has no place in business. It also wasn't a meaningless act: Your womyn-born-womyn coworkers learned that their coworkers and employer will support them if they ever decide that they *don't* enjoy it.

                  --
                  The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 1) by albert on Wednesday September 03 2014, @04:24AM

            by albert (276) on Wednesday September 03 2014, @04:24AM (#88760)

            Was this lady born yesterday? Is she smart enough for college?

            I really don't get it. Why would she be accepting drinks that she didn't go fetch herself? Never mind the drug issue, what about germs? The guy could have used his hands to place ice in the glass... after using his hands to wipe or scratch his butt.

            Also, I'm going to assume the drink contained ethanol. That is the most popular drug for rape, and nearly everybody can smell it. Heck, never mind the potential for evil: you could fall down the stairs and crack your head.

            WHY THE STUPID????

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:00AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:00AM (#85981)

          Louis CK - There is No Greater Threat to Women Than Men [youtube.com]
          That one really gets the misogynists worked up.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Geezer on Wednesday August 27 2014, @09:12AM

        by Geezer (511) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @09:12AM (#86138)

        Good point. It's perfectly commonplace for a lady to swizzle her drink with a fingertip, and so draws little attention.

        I'm all for giving women every edge in spotting and defending against the sort of creeps who can't get laid without resorting to drugs or violence.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:36AM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:36AM (#86171) Homepage
          spotting, defending against, and, due to the subtlety of the test, being able to report, and put a stop to...
          --
          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:31AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:31AM (#86167)

        Not really on-topic anymore, but still:

        the vast majority of rapes are committed by men.

        According to a news report I saw the other day, in the USA, the majority of rape victims are also men. This was mainly due to rapes in prison. I don't think nail polish will help in preventing prison rapes though.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:22PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:22PM (#86246)

        It's also rather harder to lose or get your fingers stolen.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 2) by EvilJim on Thursday September 18 2014, @05:41AM

      by EvilJim (2501) on Thursday September 18 2014, @05:41AM (#94814) Journal

      I want nail polish that detects STD's - I'll just do the ol' dipstick test on ya luv. more reliable than dip/sniff

  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:01PM (#85938)

    > "I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I'm at the bar."

    Good news, no one's forcing you to.

    > "That’s not the world I want to live in."

    Good news, no one's forcing you to.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:22PM

    by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:22PM (#85945) Homepage

    Solutions like these actually just recreate that.

    What? How?

    I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I’m at the bar. That’s not the world I want to live in.

    Okay, calm down - swearing rarely helps you to get taken seriously. It's not the world I want to live in, either, but it is - seemingly - the one we're stuck with for now. Let's see what we can do about changing it, but why not also use an easy, hopefully temporary bit of tech to mitigate the problem for now?

    What next? Let's rally against autonomous cars, because I don't want to live in a world where humans causing accidents is a problem to be solved!

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:32PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:32PM (#85951)

      > Okay, calm down - swearing rarely helps you to get taken seriously.

      You are a pompous ass.

    • (Score: 1) by quixote on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:27PM

      by quixote (4355) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:27PM (#85972)

      Partly, you're just being stupid. You're not emigrating to Somalia. Why? Because it's a huge hassle having to watch your back all the time, and emotionally draining, and generally very unpleasant.

      Well, that's the world women live in. A war zone. And, no, they don't like it and would much rather live in a nice safe place where all men, not just most of them, respected their right to live on this planet.

      But partly, you do have a point. It's bloody stupid to object to a tool that works in your war zone and makes you less vulnerable.

      Sure, the real job is to get the 5%-20% of men who cause the trouble to stop causing it. You can help with that. Call out asshole behavior when you see it.

      But that doesn't mean a kevlar vest is a bad idea in a war zone, which is where we currently unfortunately live because there are too many people wandering around saying "Problem? What problem?"

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:45AM (#86153)

        It's quite incomprehensible how you can get the "you're just being stupid" part from what was written. Seriously, if that's how you react you're being WAY too oversensitive and by calling someone stupid you're just adding to the problem. The post you replied to was very polite about the opinion voiced by Rebecca Nagle that this "Solutions like these actually just recreate that". She's actually saying that being able to test for roofies is like being raped, because it makes her think about reality and get scared by it. Let me be more blunt:

        1. It's stupid to assume there is just ONE solution to a given problem and criticise a crutch for not being a silver bullet. Ms. Nagle is an ass for criticising something for not helping in the right way, comparable to the pope speaking out against condom use because he prefers to preach abstinence. If we take your war zone example, it's stupid on the level of not only declining to wear kevlar yourself but also speaking out against kevlar vests in general and accusing the vest manufacturer of being part of the problem - because you instead like to dream about peace and can't accept any other solution than the magical silver bullet that gives you your utopia without any effort or intermediate steps.

        2. Reality is what it is, and it's both rude and stupid to last out at some random guy trying to help because reality isn't what you'd like it to be. That's not constructive, and it doesn't help one bit in building a working relation between the sexes - and that's what we all want, isn't it?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:45AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:45AM (#86177)

      Educating people not to rape is actually *incredibly* effective. Much more effective than continuously inventing things women can do to "not be raped" (which as well as just being the least effective tool in our shed, feeds into the all too prevalent victim blaming that happens to rape victims).

      https://medium.com/evidence-base/want-to-prevent-sexual-violence-accept-that-you-know-a-rapist-2ffab1f6990b [medium.com]

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by KilroySmith on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:24PM

    by KilroySmith (2113) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:24PM (#85947)

    "I don’t want to fucking lock my front door when I leave in the morning. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking have to take my car keys out of the ignition. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking pay attention when I withdraw cash from the ATM. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking check every $20 bill that I accept to see if it's counterfeit. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking have to wear a condom. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking pay for a national Army. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
    "I don’t want to fucking get strip-searched at the airport. That’s not the world I want to live in.”

    Grow up and graduate from college. Away from the cloistered, collegial lawns, YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE the world you live in. If you're worth the air you consume, you get to fight to change the world and perhaps get to see some small advance.

    • (Score: 1) by KilroySmith on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:26PM

      by KilroySmith (2113) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:26PM (#85948)

      And beaten to the punch by a wonkey monkey.

      • (Score: 2) by Kilo110 on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:54PM

        by Kilo110 (2853) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:54PM (#85959)

        It's ok. I like your comment better.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:23PM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:23PM (#85969) Journal
        "I don’t want to fucking be beaten to the punch by a wonkey monkey. That’s not the world I want to live in.”
        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 1) by KilroySmith on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:49AM

          by KilroySmith (2113) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:49AM (#85995)

          I'm sitting here laughing my head off at that comment. Props, my good man. (or is my chauvinism showing with the gender assumption there?)

          • (Score: 2) by DECbot on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:14AM

            by DECbot (832) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:14AM (#86040) Journal

            KillroySmith automatically assumes that I'm a man, and yet doubt's his presumption and thinks that could be a woman. That's not the world I want to live in.

            --
            cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khedoros on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:54PM

      by khedoros (2921) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:54PM (#85958)
      Exactly. Protecting oneself against peril isn't a statement of support for the person/circumstance that's endangering you. Perfect is the enemy of good; it'd be perfect if we could "solve" rapists, thieves, STDs, robbers, scam artists, ad nauseam, but in the meantime, devices and behavior patterns to mitigate danger are better than nothing.

      I don't want to live somewhere where I think it's dangerous to walk the streets alone at night, but I've lived places like that. I locked my door, kept the windows closed, and didn't go outside after dark. It sucked, but that was the reality of the place. I'm not going to blame the deadbolt for enabling the world to be as it was, either.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:50PM (#85977)

      "I don't want to fucking pay ransom for people kidnapped by terrorists. That's not the world I want to live in."

      So why is that attitude OK for the US government but not for this woman?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:10AM

        by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:10AM (#86160) Journal

        > "I don't want to fucking pay ransom for people kidnapped by terrorists. That's not the world I want to live in."
        > So why is that attitude OK for the US government but not for this woman?

        Because paying ransoms encourages kidnappers to take more hostages. Testing your drinks for rape drugs does not encourage further raping - if anything, it has the opposite effect as there's a chance that the little shit responsible will actually get caught and arrested, or at least give up when his plan fails and go back to internet porn.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:51PM (#86267)

          It is all in how you choose to phrase the situation.

          • (Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:29PM

            by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:29PM (#86334) Journal

            Phrase it how you like, but paying ransoms to kidnappers and identifying drugged drinks are different actions with very different consequences. One does not serve as a good metaphor for another.

    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:07AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:07AM (#85983)

      Away from the cloistered, collegial lawns

      Whatever made you think that the cloistered, collegial lawns were safe places for women? Current estimates are that 1 out of every 20 women attending college will be the victim of a rape or attempted rate this year. (Military women have it much worse: about 1 out of 4 will be targeted at some point during her military service.)

      Men are also raped in college, usually by other men, and at a much lower rate than women.

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 1) by KilroySmith on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:17AM

        by KilroySmith (2113) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:17AM (#85986)

        1 out of every 20 women attending college will be the victim of a rape or attempted rape this year

        I never said and don't believe that colleges are safe places for women; my intentions was to suggest that the environment of a college tends to encourage utopian beliefs of the world, and the statement made reflects that type of thinking. I am probably wrong in my implication that the quoted person is a college student; but that was an intentional rhetorical device.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @03:20PM (#86282)
      Came here to point this out. Why is rape the one crime for which attempting to protect oneself is the equivalent of victim-blaming? Despite the Pollyanna-ish notion of "just teach people not to rape," human nature says it will never entirely disappear - the same with murder, assault, burglary, etc. Taking reasonable precautions to keep oneself from being victimized by any crime should never be seen as victim-blaming. Sure, we teach people not to do these things, but there will always be some who, you know, do them anyway...
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:40PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:40PM (#85953)

    There is some truth to the idea that tools like drug-detectors (and check-in apps, [checkinon.me] etc) prevent society from addressing serious problems because they mitigate the effects of the problems but do not change the incentives that create the problems. In other words, each raped woman means an incensed father willing to support social change. Social change does not happen unless pressure reaches some threshold, these tools don't fix the problem but they make it harder for pressure to reach the threshold required for change.

    That doesn't mean these tools shouldn't exist, no one thinks a girl ought to be raped for any reason. It is just the difference between a focus on the individual and the society at large. Because we are all individuals and simultaneously we all live in a society, we have to take both perspectives into consideration.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Tork on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:59PM

      by Tork (3914) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:59PM (#85961)
      "Social change does not happen unless pressure reaches some threshold, these tools don't fix the problem but they make it harder for pressure to reach the threshold required for change."

      So what's your proposal, more people should run around and rape women?
      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:38PM (#85975)

        That doesn't mean these tools shouldn't exist, no one thinks a girl ought to be raped for any reason.

        So what's your proposal, more people should run around and rape women?

        Normally you are a reasonably smart poster, but that was the kind of thing a supreme asshole would say.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:55PM

          by Tork (3914) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:55PM (#85980)
          Okay, fine, I'm an asshole. But I do think I asked an important question. Here, I'll rephrase it less assholishly: "Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?"
          --
          Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:03AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:03AM (#85982)

            It isn't how you said it, it is the fact that you are saying I am pro-rape.
            And not just saying it, but saying it despite the fact that I explicitly explained that I am not.
            You are not adding any value to the conversation, you are obscuring the issues in order to flaunt your self-righteousness.

            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:22AM

              by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:22AM (#85987)
              "It isn't how you said it, it is the fact that you are saying I am pro-rape."

              Not exactly. I'm saying your philosophy leads straight to that conclusion. This is your chance to clarify your point. I'll gladly accept the reputation of being an asshole if you can suggest a practical application of this approach to dealing with rape that is a little more thought provoking than "these sorts of products only serve to kick the can down the road".
              --
              Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:32AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:32AM (#85991)

                > Not exactly. I'm saying your philosophy leads straight to that conclusion.

                Except that I explicitly denied that. The fact that you insist on that conclusion says everything about you and nothing about me. It isn't about "reputation" it is about how you think. You favor thinking the worst about me rather than thinking of answers that don't indulge your self-righteousness. Accusing some of being pro-rape is not constructive of anything.

                • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:59AM

                  by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:59AM (#85996)

                  "Except that I explicitly denied that."

                  You did not explain a practical way it would work otherwise. In fact you even suggested that rape brings the angry father into the mix to solve the problem.

                  "You favor thinking the worst about me...."

                  Yeah, you can tell by the way I've repeatedly asked you to clarify your view.

                  "...rather than thinking of answers that don't indulge your self-righteousness."

                  Oh, on the topic of self-righteous behavior, how about that clarification I keep asking you for? All this belly-aching is absurd when I'm actually asking you for more information. It's a little too much like Slashdot right now.

                  --
                  Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:19AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:19AM (#86001)

                    > Yeah, you can tell by the way I've repeatedly asked you to clarify your view.

                    Yeah, I can tell, here's how:
                    Question that indulges in self-righteousness: So what's your proposal, more people should run around and rape women?
                    Question that seeks answers: So what's your proposal?

                    > how about that clarification I keep asking you for?

                    First, just because someone recognizes a problem does not mean they must also have an answer.
                    "You don't need to be a baker to know the bread is stale."

                    Second, If you weren't so focused on your own self-aggrandizement you might have noticed where I said:
                    "Because we are all individuals and simultaneously we all live in a society, we have to take both perspectives into consideration."

                    One approach that takes both perspectives into consideration would be to put 50% of the revenue from sales of anti-rape tools towards funding advocacy groups that do things push for better laws to make rapists and attempted rapists more accountable and promote cultural changes that discourage misogyny.

                    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:33AM

                      by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:33AM (#86002)

                      Question that seeks answers: So what's your proposal?

                      "Here, I'll rephrase it less assholishly: Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?" Sound familiar?

                      First, just because someone recognizes a problem does not mean they must also have an answer. "You don't need to be a baker to know the bread is stale." Second, If you weren't so focused on your own self-aggrandizement you might have noticed where I said: "Because we are all individuals and simultaneously we all live in a society, we have to take both perspectives into consideration."

                      First, if bread is going stale and you suggest that the problem won't get solved until you leave more bread to go stale, even if you say you really shouldn't leave bread out to go stale, you really should expect people to get the wrong idea about your attitude. Second, that comment, when paired with your remarks about angry fathers etc, leads right down the path to what I suggested. Saying "...but I'm not saying that is the case!" doesn't automatically undo it, it requires support.

                      One approach that takes both perspectives into consideration would be to put 50% of the revenue from sales of anti-rape tools towards funding advocacy groups that do things push for better laws to make rapists and attempted rapists more accountable and promote cultural changes that discourage misogyny.

                      I actually think that's a decent answer... maybe a bit fanciful, and it contradicts your point of view, but at least it fits my requirement of being practical. I have to ask, though: Was all this slashdottian nonsense really necessarily? I conceded my assholishness on the first reply, the only practical reason you had to put us through that bullshit was that you needed to buy time to concoct that answer.

                      --
                      Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:47AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @01:47AM (#86005)

                        Self-righteousness: "Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?"
                        Seeks answers: "What do you suggest to solve the social problem of rape?"

                        > Was all this slashdottian nonsense really necessarily?

                        This "slashdottian nonsense" was 100% your creation at every step.
                        You chose twice to accuse me of being pro-rape under the cover of asking a question.
                        Do not accuse people of being assholes if you want a response other than fuck off.

                        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:22AM

                          by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:22AM (#86018)

                          Self-righteousness: "Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?"

                          Oh the hypocrisy of that statement. Wow.

                          Seeks answers: "What do you suggest to solve the social problem of rape?"

                          Actually my original question was: "This is what it sounds like you're saying, am I wrong?" The difference is important to the conversation, or at least it would have been if you had a more sophisticated take on this topic.

                          This "slashdottian nonsense" was 100% your creation at every step. You chose twice to accuse me of being pro-rape under the cover of asking a question.

                          I expressed astonishment at your statement and when you challenged my tone I altered it. Your response then was to keep circling the drain on the original accusation... just like what happens on Slashdot. You failed to make your point originally then you turned hostile when challenged on it. I do not accept responsibility for that.

                          Do not accuse people of being assholes if you want a response other than fuck off.

                          You're upset, not because of an implied accusation of being a terrible human being, but because you know that's how your post was going to be read and you think your wimpy little handwavium should have been enough to protect you from it. The consequences of that were entirely within your control. Blaming me is only succeeding in stabbing you in the back during your attempt to pin 'self-righteousness' on me. Grow up.

                          --
                          Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:27AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:27AM (#86021)

                            my original question was: "This is what it sounds like you're saying, am I wrong?"

                            Since that text does not actually exist in anything you've posted here, you are now making shit up to rationalize your poor behavior.
                            I think that marks the end of this discussion.

                            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:45AM

                              by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:45AM (#86030)

                              Since that text does not actually exist in anything you've posted here, you are now making shit up to rationalize your poor behavior.

                              Here it is:

                              Here, I'll rephrase it less assholishly: "Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?"

                              I think that marks the end of this discussion.

                              Heh. Sure you don't want to advertise your reading comprehension problem a little more before you go?

                              --
                              Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                              • (Score: 3, Informative) by mrider on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:50AM

                                by mrider (3252) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:50AM (#86032)

                                Posting as A.C. because I've moderated in this thread - and in fact I've moderated you up elsewhere in this post:

                                 

                                I think you're just feeding the troll at this point... mrider

                                --

                                Doctor: "Do you hear voices?"

                                Me: "Only when my bluetooth is charged."

                                • (Score: 2) by mrider on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:52AM

                                  by mrider (3252) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:52AM (#86033)

                                  AAAND of course I forgot to check the "Post Anonymously" check box. Oh well, syonara points I've given in this thread. :(

                                  --

                                  Doctor: "Do you hear voices?"

                                  Me: "Only when my bluetooth is charged."

                                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:04AM

                                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:04AM (#86056)

                                    Soylentcode changed that. Posting does not negate previous moderations, it just blocks you from doing any new ones afterward.

                                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:05AM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:05AM (#86144)

                                  Posting as A.C. because I've moderated in this thread

                                  Unlike on the other site, on Soylent News you don't undo your moderations by posting after moderating.

                                • (Score: 3, Informative) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @05:18PM

                                  by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @05:18PM (#86365)
                                  I think you're right.

                                  Sorry about your mod-points, though. Have a good week, man.
                                  --
                                  Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:01AM

                                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:01AM (#86054)

                                Here it is:

                                Here, I'll rephrase it less assholishly: "Are you suggesting making it harder for women to avoid rape so we'll finally solve the social problem of rape?"

                                Since that is not literally the same text you seem to be arguing that the OP erred by not taking the best possible interpretation of what you wrote (that you were not accusing him of being pro-rape) while simultaneously arguing that you were correct in taking the worst possible interpretation of what he wrote (that the logical conclusion was more raping).

                                There is something called the "principle of charity" [lander.edu] which includes this precept:

                                "We seek to understand the ideas in their most persuasive form and actively attempt to resolve contradictions. If more than one view is presented, we choose the one that appears the most cogent."

                                It looks like you are trying to claim it for yourself while denying it to the OP, even though the last paragraph of the first post looks like a straight-up contradiction of your interpretation.

                                I'm a fan of the principle of charity and I don't see either of you using it here, but I think all this mishegas would have been avoided if just one of you had.

                                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:23AM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:23AM (#86064)

                                  > Since that is not literally the same text you seem to be arguing that the OP erred by not taking the best possible interpretation of what you wrote (that you were not accusing him of being pro-rape) while simultaneously arguing that you were correct in taking the worst possible interpretation of what he wrote (that the logical conclusion was more raping).

                                  Those two are both noisy morons. However, your assertion that their two statements were equally faulty is false. You might have had a point if that statement didn't end in a question mark.

                                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @05:18AM

                                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @05:18AM (#86087)

                                    The cavuto mark. [newshounds.us]

                                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @06:06AM

                                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @06:06AM (#86097)

                                      That doesn't describe either of the idiots in this thread.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:58AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:58AM (#86157)

                            ...and the peanut gallery is back with a verdict!

                            We, the peanut gallery, declare Tork to be the more sensible party in this discussion. Anonymous Coward is an oversensitive and immature dolt.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:16PM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:16PM (#86323) Homepage
        Normally you're a smart poster, ...

        and your method of saying something shocking in order to draw attention to your point (that you disagreed with him and wanted him to justify his stance) was indeed a smart approach. It forces the person you are responding to to be painfully clear and precise about what he believes the problems and alternatives to be. Unfortunately, the person to whom you were responding doesn't seem to be smart enough to have worked that out.

        What I want to know is: how on earth does having real time evidence, in a public place, of a smoking gun not make it *easier* for the social pressure to rise? It's now easier to identify many of those who are part of the problem. Abstract concepts are far harder to stamp out that things you can positively identify. (Compare how labels like "Al Qaida" or "ISIS" have been used in order to help drum up support for abstract campaigns.)

        I would have tought that anyone who performs a crime which requires a modicum of planning (bringing and chosing where and when to deposit the drug) almost certainly has also considered the probabilities and consequences of getting caught. (And there's very little you can do to protect against the psychopaths and sociopaths who will not fold to pressure except, perhaps, just maybe, I don't know if this would ever be possible, - *catching them with the smoking gun* before one sip of rohypnol has been imbibed.)
        --
        I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:35PM

          by Tork (3914) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:35PM (#86341)

          What I want to know is: how on earth does having real time evidence, in a public place, of a smoking gun not make it *easier* for the social pressure to rise?

          This is pretty much the point my wife made when this article appeared on her news feed. To which I was informed that I really had no idea how dangerous it is for women out there.

          http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/the-daily-show-takes-on-the-double-standards-in-combating-co [buzzfeed.com] -- This link here did more to give me a clearer idea of what the social problems here than not-releasing-the-app, like the AC was headed down the path of suggesting.

          Unfortunately, the person to whom you were responding doesn't seem to be smart enough to have worked that out.

          I'm actually disappointed about that. Not that I wanted him to be right, but rather I have encountered really effective uses of later-thinking in my life. I was secretly hoping to eat some humble pie if this dude had delivered.

          --
          Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
    • (Score: 2) by Kilo110 on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:04PM

      by Kilo110 (2853) on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:04PM (#85963)

      That argument reminds me of the classic prisoners dilemma problem in game theory.

      Long story short- what you're suggesting is not in equilibrium. It'll never work.

    • (Score: 1) by art guerrilla on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:06AM

      by art guerrilla (3082) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:06AM (#86007)

      *except*, i would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 times it will NOT be a chick finding out a psychopath is about to victimize her, but some bros pulling a bad trick on their bud trying to (innocently, as it were) pick up said chicka...
      ...or even a psycho 'saving' a chicka with *his* magically polished nail, only to rape later...
      like most tools, this cuts with two edges...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:09AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:09AM (#86009)

        i would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 times it will NOT be a chick finding out a psychopath is about to victimize her, but some bros pulling a bad trick on their bud

        Wow.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:55PM (#86434)

        I'm pretty sure most "Bros" would limit their prank to their friend, and not drug some random "chicka" for shits and giggles. It does sound like the sort of thing the suddenly confronted rapist would claim though "Oh no, I have no idea how roofies got into the drink I just gave you. I bet it was my asshole friends."

        9 times out of 10? Come on.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by albert on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:16AM

    by albert (276) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:16AM (#86109)

    This whole focus on exotic (and rare) drugs is silly. In nearly all cases, the drink contains alcohol. That by itself is a mighty effective date rape drug.

    There is little reason to care about weird and unlikely stuff when you are willingly downing the most popular date rape drug.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:57AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @07:57AM (#86122)

    How stupid do they think the customers are? There is literally an infinite amount of substances that could be used...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designer_drug [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @08:04AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @08:04AM (#86123)

      ... with alcohol statistically being one of the more effective substances to dull the senses.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:06AM

    by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @10:06AM (#86146)

    What about men who get date-raped? This issue does not seem to be addressed here.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:13AM (#86163)

      Such men probably already wear nail polish.

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:26PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:26PM (#86252)

      Yeah, because men are totally incapable of wearing fingernail polish.

      When most of your target audience is one demographic, you target that demographic. Don't be stupid.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:21PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:21PM (#86245)

    Look forward to the day when blame rape victims: "Well what did she expect. She wasn't wearing the nail polish."

  • (Score: 2) by Geotti on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:51PM

    by Geotti (1146) on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:51PM (#86350) Journal

    Just use GHB*, then it's not rape, since both (all?) have fun. *ducks*
     

    *Don't mix this with alcohol. Ever!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @08:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @08:53PM (#86458)

      Why can't we mix ducks with alcohol? It's a tasty combination...