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posted by martyb on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:15PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the Be-Charming.  Like-a-Prince.  From-Venus. dept.

Tricia Romano reports at the Seattle Times that Susie Lee and Katrina Hess have developed Siren, a new online dating app designed to protect against men who inundate women with messages that are by turns gross, hilarious, objectifying and just plain sad. As online dating options have grown, Lee noticed that her friends' frustration did, too: With every good introduction often came a slew of lewd ones. "I just started looking (at online dating options) and very quickly realized how many things are out there and how immediately my 'creepy meter' went up," Lee says. Lee hopes to change the nature of the messages and put women in the driver’s seat.

The free iPhone app, currently launched to a select market in Seattle in August, allows women to peruse men’s pictures and their answers to the “Question of the Day” (“You found a magic lamp and get three wishes. What are they?”) and view their Video Challenges (“Show us a hidden gem in Seattle”). If a woman is suitably impressed by a man’s answers, she can make herself visible to him. Only then can he see what she looks like. "It’s a far more thoughtful — and cautious — approach than the one taken by the dating app of the moment, Tinder, which is effectively a “hot or not” game, with little information beyond a few photos, age and volunteered biographical tidbits," writes Romano. "And the implicit notion that it’s a “hookup” app can be uncomfortable for some women." Lee and Hess are betting that men are less shallow and want more repartee. And they know that women want a little more flirtation than crude references. After all, Siren’s motto is “Charm Someone’s Pants Off.” “Before the ‘pants off,’ it’s more about charming someone,” says Hess. “Be charming.”

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  • (Score: 3) by naubol on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:37PM

    by naubol (1918) on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:37PM (#102042)

    The "gender divide" hits both genders hard. I suspect that a side effect is that men tend to come off more creepy. They're castigated for showing emotions and then further castigated when they objectify women as a result. So easy to become needy, and then creepy, when repressing yourself in order to fit in with expectations of the "civilized male".

    It is the responsibility of both genders to give each other the opportunity to be human beings.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by quixote on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:39PM

      by quixote (4355) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:39PM (#102054)

      Agree that the gender divide is the problem. Without that, we'd be treating each other like human beings and there'd be way less of a problem.

      I'd argue, though, about the app makers' instructions to be "charming." I'm like everyone else: I want someone who cares about me. Even if it's a one night stand, I want them to care enough so that it's going to be fun. The kind of charming that comes from being a person who cares about others is fine. The kind that's there to manipulate them into "pants off" is just gross.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:57PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:57PM (#102078)

      They're castigated for showing emotions

      In this case, the issue is that on most online dating websites, there are hundreds guys in every metropolitan area who send a picture of their dick to approximately every woman with a profile in a certain age (and sometimes weight) range hoping one of them will agree to have sex. This is bad for women who are looking for more than a hookup, because their inboxes are inundated with these guys, and a lot of them end up responding by taking their profiles down and mass-deleting the messages. This is also bad for vast majority of men, who are looking for more than a hookup, because whatever they send to these women will get lost in the noise.

      The only emotion these guys are expressing is horniness. It's not even lust, because these guys are extremely indiscriminate about who they try and contact. It's not sincere interest, because they rarely make any sort of comment about anything about her that she put on her profile. And it's certainly not love, either: These fellows are not penning romantic sonnets for the women they're sending messages to.

      One way I can think of solving the problem technologically: When rejecting a message, the recipient has the option of "Creepy!" or "Not Interested". "Not Interested" says the sender isn't really what the recipient is after, but seems decent enough and approached respectfully. "Creepy!" is more that the sender sent something offensive, way out of line, etc. All recipients would then get a filter that automatically silently drops messages from people with very high percentage of "Creepy!" responses.

      Basically, the problem is the same as spammers, but instead of trying to get people with money to part with it, it's trying to get people with female-type body parts to let a fairly despicable guy into her life. Sure, 99.999% of recipients will ignore or hate the message, but these guys are looking for that 0.001%

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Grishnakh on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:12PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:12PM (#102084)

        What site is this that allows men to send dick pictures to women?

        OKCupid doesn't allow this; you can only send text messages to other users.

        Tinder doesn't allow this; you can only send a text message, and even then only if they've right-swiped you first. In fact, I've never understood why so many women on there have some kind of comment along the lines of "message me if..."; no one can message her unless she's specifically right-swiped them first. You cannot get an unsolicited message on Tinder. In fact, if you're getting creepy messages from men on Tinder, it's partly your own fault, and you should re-examine what kind of men you're right-swiping. I imagine women who get a lot of creepy messages on Tinder are very indiscriminate about who they right-swipe, instead of taking the time to look at each profile (you need to tap the "i" button to read their profile and see the rest of their photos before making a yes/no choice). I have no sympathy. OKC is different because anyone can message anyone, unless they've been specifically blocked, or you've put in a filter (such as to prevent people >50 miles away from messaging you).

        • (Score: 4, Funny) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:17PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:17PM (#102087)

          ASCII art is making a comeback?

        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:49PM (#102129)

          Don't let a focus on a minor exaggeration lead you to miss the fundamental point of thexalon's message.

          So the women aren't getting dick pics on the first pass. But any woman of even average looks gets an asston of 99 slaps-style contacts. [youtube.com] And if they respond because they don't recognize the message for what it really is, then they do have a high chance of getting a dick-pic in a follow-up. The volume drowns out legitimate contacts and makes women mistrust all contacts after her first dick pic. That's how misogyny makes life suck for regular guys.

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Saturday October 11 2014, @02:56AM

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday October 11 2014, @02:56AM (#104671)

            I still don't understand how they're getting a dick pic. I've never seen any facility on Tinder or OKC that allows users to send pictures to each other. This isn't a "minor exaggeration", this is like complaining about how people fly their cars badly, when *cars don't fly*.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @07:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @07:21PM (#102137)

      >It is the responsibility of both genders to give each other the opportunity to be human beings.

      But money and the 'act of sex' get in the way of things and causes all sorts of problems that have plagued mankind since time immemorial....

    • (Score: 2) by Geezer on Monday October 06 2014, @10:18AM

      by Geezer (511) on Monday October 06 2014, @10:18AM (#102355)

      I honestly don't think that just showing emotions is what pegs a woman's creepometer at all. Hell, most women like an emotionally healthy man. Perhaps the inappropriate display of uncontrolled emotions would sound the alarm, but that's usually symptomatic of chronic social awkwardness or even worse.

      According to my wife, besides the certifiable psychopaths, failed male daters tend to fall into one of two categories: the macho buffoon and the sad puppy. Fortunately for them, the sad puppies have a better chance at eventually meeting someone and forming a relationship. Better husband material and all that.

      The macho clowns eventually either grow up or die single after years of failed attempts at relationships. The downtown bars are full of lonely old tough guys spending their Social Security on hookers.

      Women like emotions. They just don't like jerks.

      • (Score: 2) by naubol on Tuesday October 07 2014, @12:40AM

        by naubol (1918) on Tuesday October 07 2014, @12:40AM (#102818)

        Hi, I didn't mean that showing emotions is creepy. I meant that repressing emotions often leads to behavior that is considered creepy.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:39PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:39PM (#102043)

    I know where a bunch are, but security will be pretty tight at Bill and Melinda Gates' house. And their taste in music isn't very good. How about instead we head over to a bar where we can eat dinner, [the5pointcafe.com] they server burgers and Mexican food.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:47PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:47PM (#102044)

    I read the summary and it looks like an ad for some sorry app. I don't see anything interesting about it. :-/

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:54PM (#102046)

      There probably aren't many prospective customers for the app on this particular site (or on /., for that matter).

    • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:55PM

      by Nerdfest (80) on Sunday October 05 2014, @02:55PM (#102047)

      Also iOS only. I wonder the impact that will have on creepy vs. non-creepy potential users ...

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:41PM (#102055)

        Will women be able to find any non creepy iOS using men at all considering that most men who use apple are only interested in other men

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:53PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:53PM (#102063)

          Well, they can date too, AC, but a more serious problem is conversations along the line of "I was going to take you to dinner at $nice_restaurant but after paying for my new iDevices all I can afford is McDonalds tonight, just stick to the value menu OK?"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:25PM (#102091)

      Bingo. You deserve a +5 Thread Over.

      This is a soyvertisement that relies on provoking an emotional response. The men immediately start rejecting the premise that men are creepy (one poster already blamed the notion of male creepiness on society, good job there chief) while others start defending the idea supposedly behind the app, namely that women have a hard time finding anything but pictures of dicks in their inboxes without some filtering mechanism.

      The real idea behind the app is to provide something useless but attention-getting and thus to make money. This is the attention-getting phase. Congratulations, you have given them your attention. The advertising works.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:35PM (#102099)

        This is a soyvertisement

        Hey, someone ring the bell. This site has arrived!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:42PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:42PM (#102101)

        Call me when actual, real sales and revenue are generated. You might not remember 2001 but I do. It's not all just about hype and buzz and advertising.

    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:51PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:51PM (#102107) Journal

      Its about the manner in which hookups is filtered that is the "news". Other sites charge high fees to join in order to make sure only rich people get to join. Others let members vote so that only handsome people may join and so on..

      It might show you new ways in which to keep men lonely. Isn't that nice?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Lagg on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:09PM

    by Lagg (105) on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:09PM (#102049) Homepage Journal

    Frankly, this is reading to me like an attempt to capitalize on the professional victims infesting some otherwise good communities lately. You can tell because the disgusting hypocrisy shows quite quickly, in fact it shows in the very first sentence in the summary: "a new online dating app designed to protect against men". Firstly how much of a presumptuous jackass can someone be to think that men are the only ones that do that, secondly if you claim stupid shit like wanting to "protect" a woman you're no better than the stereotypical "go back to the kitchen" type. Pretty sure most women actively looking for a date are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.

    I swear, this hysteria was generated completely by people who have never kissed someone let alone dated or had sex.

    Also some of the quotes in that article are equally disgusting:

    “I didn’t feel safe on these sites. I felt really exposed,”

    Wow, you put your picture up, your personal information, your turn ons and who knows what else and you suddenly feel attacked and unsafe? Give me a break. These are the people responsible for diluting the pool of pretty horrible sexual assaults and harassment ladies and gentlemen. Give them a hand.

    Yes I know I'm ranting but I can't help it anymore. This stuff is following me and affecting every facet of my daily reading, if people just sit there silently it's only going to get worse.

    --
    http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by kaszz on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:45PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:45PM (#102057) Journal

      The operating modus is likely to create a walled garden such that the electronic community can get more females to the meeting forum. The benefit for females will be that they won't have to deal with "wanna fuck?" messages. Feels kind of like night clubs that charge males but let females in for free. Creates a feeling of that you paid for something and want the goods once inside. Rock stars don't seem to have the problem of attracting females. No protections in those settings, so the problem is likely with how people think (cognitive maps) and perceive things. Than what's actually goes on.

      Otoh, a well educated groomed man like say.. Ted Bundy doesn't give of enough creep factors that made woman avoid him. So these "creep" factors seems more like some sense leftover from prehistoric times that is irrelevant in the current society.

    • (Score: 2) by fliptop on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:31PM

      by fliptop (1666) on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:31PM (#102072) Journal

      Pretty sure most women actively looking for a date are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves

      I agree. However, I think the Internet actually reverses the sexual revolution a little bit in that there's "courting" before meeting. You get to know someone before figuring out of the chemistry is there.

      You can already (sort of) do what this app does, if you register but hide your profile (at least on the 2 dating sites I've tried), you can peruse as many profiles of prospective mates as you want, w/o any of them finding out, if you use two browsers and Tor. I guess there's no instructions on the Internet on how to do that?

      --
      It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide.
    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:08PM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:08PM (#102081) Journal

      Yeah, if you expose yourself, you should not be surprised that you are exposed.

      What's next? Posing in front of a web cam and then complaining you feel watched? Attending a nudist beach, and then complaining about feeling naked?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:59PM (#102131)

        > Yeah, if you expose yourself, you should not be surprised that you are exposed.

        Man. That's so sad. The entire point of the app is to give them the ability to better control that exposure.

        They are addressing the very issue you are denigrating them for not understanding.

        I wish there was someone providing a similar service for other kinds of exposure - I don't want everybody who sees my license plate in public to be able to make a permanent record of my travels. I don't want the fact that I made a purchase from a certain store to go into a database where I have no control over who can see that information. I don't want companies to amalgamate my visit to indidivual websites into a single identifiable record that I have no control over.

        Anything that gives people agency in how, when and to whom their personal information is exposed is a damn good thing.

        • (Score: 2) by physicsmajor on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:16PM

          by physicsmajor (1471) on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:16PM (#102152)

          Can't speak to the license issue, but regarding purchase anonymity the solution is cash.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:27PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:27PM (#102155)

            Only works for brick and mortar.
            Furthermore cash has its own set of risks.
            And thanks, but no duh.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:52PM (#102191)

      Frankly, this is reading to me like an attempt to capitalize on the professional victims infesting some otherwise good communities lately. You can tell because the disgusting hypocrisy shows quite quickly, in fact it shows in the very first sentence in the summary: "a new online dating app designed to protect against men". Firstly how much of a presumptuous jackass can someone be to think that men are the only ones that do that, secondly if you claim stupid shit like wanting to "protect" a woman you're no better than the stereotypical "go back to the kitchen" type. Pretty sure most women actively looking for a date are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.

      Read the summary again. This app has been written by women for women. No one is forcing this app on women for their own good. And, yes, it does appear that they have found an effective way to "take care of themselves".

      I swear, this hysteria was generated completely by people who have never kissed someone let alone dated or had sex.

      Again, you should read the summary or even TFA (Yeah, yeah, heaven forbid. What was I thinking?) Their app was created because they were getting mighty tired of all the inappropriate responses to their profiles on dating websites. Yeah, it kind of sucks that you can no longer introduce yourself on dating websites with your dick pics. Deal with it.

      Also some of the quotes in that article are equally disgusting:

      “I didn’t feel safe on these sites. I felt really exposed,”

      Wow, you put your picture up, your personal information, your turn ons and who knows what else and you suddenly feel attacked and unsafe? Give me a break.

      From reading the summary it would appear that what made them "feel attacked and unsafe" was getting inundated with inappropriate dick pics and other lewd messages. It looks to me like the ladies have already given the guys on these sites all the breaks they are going to get. I'm afraid you will have to change your strategy if you want to visit those dating websites. Yeah, it sucks but if you are sending dick pics, you only have yourself to blame.

      Yes I know I'm ranting but I can't help it anymore. This stuff is following me and affecting every facet of my daily reading, if people just sit there silently it's only going to get worse.

      Yes, you are ranting. If this is affecting every facet of your life then I suggest you adopt a change of strategy. A good start would probably be to refrain from sending dick pics and encouraging other guys to do the same. Until that time, I'm afraid the ladies have found an effective way to block you through their new app. Personally, I can't say I really blame them for coming up with an effective "spam filter". Just sayin'.

    • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday October 06 2014, @01:56AM

      by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Monday October 06 2014, @01:56AM (#102262) Journal

      I agree with everything you said, except the part about you ranting. You said everything I was thinking, but more articulately.

      On another note, articles like this are inflammatory. Thanks for your submissions Lagg, top tier!

      --
      jasassin@gmail.com Key fingerprint = 0644 173D 8EED AB73 C2A6 B363 8A70 579B B6A7 02CA
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:46PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:46PM (#102059)

    I'm not in this game so I don't care personally, but I imagine the participants for a minute, and I now need bleach for my mind.

    I don't like the site wide question idea, because the provided examples look like bad parody. Ever seen the first 5 minutes of "bladerunner", the HR interview grilling? Who wouldn't feel exactly like that when asked stupid questions. So you're going to evolve a dating pool of chicks and guys who actually LIKE wanna be HR professional interview questions.

    Also, speaking of things that apparently no one has ever thought of, does anyone involved understand the dynamic of "bad money chases out good money"? Now combine that with the opposition being "effectively a “hot or not” game" and take a wild guess as to the "desirability distribution" of the chicks on this app. I suspect the distribution of water buffalo, hambeasts, and hippos will naturally concentrate into one of the apps discussed, and its not going to be the "hot or not" one.

    So combine the two and you've got chicks with the personality of "wanna be HR professionals" and the looks you'd guess from chicks who know they're going to lose if they play the tindr hot or not game. I'm imagining what that looks like, and I'm thinking those Harry Potter movies, the woman from the ministry of magic with the cat plates who's continually trying to take over hogwarts and turn it into a polite torture camp. And a whole website of those chicks not just one. "Nuke it from orbit, just to be sure", indeed.

    Not claiming there isn't a problem or trying to fix it is wrong. Just saying this isn't gonna work. It's like trying faith healing and leeches to fix ebola.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @01:32AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @01:32AM (#102254)

      WTF did I just read?

      • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday October 06 2014, @04:15AM

        by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Monday October 06 2014, @04:15AM (#102295) Journal

        He said the women are too fat and ugly for other more popular sites, so it will be filled with fat ugly women with the kind of mentality that could make Charlie Sheen go limp after half a bottle of boner pills.

        --
        jasassin@gmail.com Key fingerprint = 0644 173D 8EED AB73 C2A6 B363 8A70 579B B6A7 02CA
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @04:35AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @04:35AM (#102301)

      I don't like the site wide question idea, because the provided examples look like bad parody. Ever seen the first 5 minutes of "bladerunner", the HR interview grilling? Who wouldn't feel exactly like that when asked stupid questions. So you're going to evolve a dating pool of chicks and guys who actually LIKE wanna be HR professional interview questions.

      Ya know, if you don't like their ideas on ways to thoughtfully engage you could (gasp!) come up with a few ideas of your own. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the women using this app might actually appreciate your effort and initiative. I also gather that the ladies would prefer your alternative does not include lewd propositions and pictures of your dick. Just a thought.

      Also, speaking of things that apparently no one has ever thought of, does anyone involved understand the dynamic of "bad money chases out good money"? Now combine that with the opposition being "effectively a “hot or not” game" and take a wild guess as to the "desirability distribution" of the chicks on this app. I suspect the distribution of water buffalo, hambeasts, and hippos will naturally concentrate into one of the apps discussed, and its not going to be the "hot or not" one.

      My alternative hypothesis is that the the distributions will divide along the line of women who are OK with just a hookup versus women who are more interested in some sort of serious relationship. The fact that you jumped to the conclusion that women who are looking for serious long-term relationships skew toward looking like "water buffalo, hambeasts, and hippos" seems most telling, and not in a particularly flattering way. Just sayin'.

      Not claiming there isn't a problem or trying to fix it is wrong. Just saying this isn't gonna work. It's like trying faith healing and leeches to fix ebola.

      Considering how much of a problem it has been for men and women to find meaningful relationships, I would be genuinely interested to hear about an alternative that works better. I suspect the ladies who came up with the spam filter would probably be very appreciative too. So, what is your alternative?

    • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday October 06 2014, @12:58PM

      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 06 2014, @12:58PM (#102386) Journal

      http://mindbleach.org/ [mindbleach.org]

      Your welcome :-)

      --
      В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:53PM

    by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:53PM (#102062)

    I know nothing about dating, and am not qualified to comment on any story about dating and romance, but maybe someone more clued-in than myself can explain why this isn't so dumb it makes your head hurt.

    There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention? If dating sites are creepy, go somewhere else. Not like you don't know what you're going to get, right? Not having a picture basically is an admission that anyone who saw you wouldn't be attracted, since from the little bit I've seen over the years, even mildly attractive people put pictures online. My point is the females who use this app aren't going to be any different than the females who don't, so what value does this app add? Jumping through hoops answering questions isn't going to be something men want to do, it is?

    Anyhow, after seeing how stupid dating is, I think I'm going to stick with the Buddhist thing and take the five - seven - how many precepts can you take? After an article like this, I want to take all of them. The problem is, even after going away and meditating on dukkha for a few weeks, when I come back, the news is even nuttier than it was when I left!

    --
    (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
    • (Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:55PM

      by basicbasicbasic (411) on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:55PM (#102077)

      here's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention?

      Life pro tip to men who haven't worked it out yet: Treat women as human beings, respond to what they say, be interested. Once you are accepted as not being creepy, then you are allowed to mention they look beautiful. That's how it works and there's nothing dumb about it.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:54PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:54PM (#102108) Homepage

        I agree with your post. However...

        I suspect that a lot of those so-called "creeps" aren't really all that creepy, they're just using a strategy which offers the best bang for the effort they put in.

        Women demand that a guy be "charming" and really be into the flirtation process. Okay, fine, but are you as a woman worth flirting with? Do you know what's going on in the world, do you have any neat skills or hobbies besides pop-culture? Are you gonna help me maintain the flow of conversation or do you expect me to do all the work? Do you have enough common-sense to know that life is not like a romantic comedy and soap opera and that I have other things to do besides sit on my trust fund and roll around the spring fields with you all day?

        Women, including the female friends I know and fuck in real life, are always complaining about how many guys are just nasty creepers. I complain about how most women are dumb and vapid bitches not worth putting all of the effort into, especially when you know they're also talking to other guys in the online dating world.

        In case you're wondering, I do online dating the right way -- I am courteous, funny, read their profile and find common ground, keep the message ratio to 1:1 so as not to come off as a clinger, take them out, offer to buy dinner on the second date, and go out with them on a regular basis so they feel special. Man, if only they knew the kind of shit I post here. Tee-Hee!

        But the not of the problem is that, for various historical and cultural reasons, people perceive women to be the "gatekeepers," that women can be more choosy because more men are after them. Both men and women believe it, too, even though it's utter bullshit. The population distribution in your average first-world country is roughly half male, half female, so there's no need for people to continue perpetuating the myth that women are somehow more valuable than men.

        For example, I know some decent single women who hear their biological clock ticking and want to have a kid, but they have little options. They aren't perfect enough to get stuck to as more and more men are deciding that having kids is just a pain in the ass and they don't want to do it. Who are the "gatekeepers" now? Or do you just not want to put any effort into dating online like we do? You've met at least a few great guys already, right? So why didn't your relationships last? Do you think, maybe, that you're not nearly as valuable as you originally thought? That clock is still ticking, dear. Don't let all those bad, nasty messages you're getting inflate your ego. You're attracting crap, and a lot of it. Perhaps you should take the initiative and reach out to men you like rather than vise-versa? Hint: You get a LOT of points for making the first move as a woman.

      • (Score: 2) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:41PM

        by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:41PM (#102124)

        "Treat women as human beings" - there's got to be something better than this, right? It'll never catch on. Requires too much work and investment, and once you start doing that, it's harder to objectify them. Isn't there a magic formula like the Google-founder book has for companies?

        --
        (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:22PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:22PM (#102153)

        Recipe for getting friendzoned? If she thinks you're looking for a scrapbooking partner in the first 30 seconds, all you'll ever get is a scrapbooking partner, forever. You've only got like 30 seconds till she decides basically forever.

        I had highly mixed results in my single era trying to pick up women at womens hobby stores. "Can you help me select a birthday gift for my mom/sister/auntie" = you're getting some vs "I'd like to learn about knitting" = friendzone 4 life

        "then you are allowed to mention they look beautiful."

        In my limited experience you're required to compliment them or their handiwork or their job or whatever in a dignified and polite sense no matter how stupid it might sound logically, but the only way you're going to get any action after a ridiculous over the top corny pickup line is if she already decided she likes you before you made a fool of yourself or creep.

        Anecdotally its interesting to watch language drift, in that a generation ago "creep" was strictly visual and referred to staring at the assets too much, staring at anything other than her eyes. Someone who used laughably bad over the top pickup lines or just generally awful technique in general was more of a "dork" or "loser". Whipping out the ole bratwurst, or pix of it, was just called harassment in ye olden days, interesting that its now semi-accepted, at least accepted as and now called "creep" behavior. So dumb question for youthful commenters, if "creep" now means weiner pix instead of staring at the assets, what is the 2010s term for staring at her assets, possibly while drooling? (Could be same word with two defs of course)

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:35PM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:35PM (#102160)

          So dumb question for youthful commenters, if "creep" now means weiner pix instead of staring at the assets, what is the 2010s term for staring at her assets, possibly while drooling? (Could be same word with two defs of course)

          I'm not that youthful, but I'm guessing the answer is "normal behavior" for that age group.

        • (Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:24PM

          by basicbasicbasic (411) on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:24PM (#102181)

          You've only got like 30 seconds till she decides basically forever.

          Definitely, I'm not saying that treating someone like a human being means you can't show you're interested.

          But anyway... this is tech news site not a dating site.

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:59PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:59PM (#102196)

            this is tech news site not a dating site

            What we need is an RFID token for people to carry around with an NFC smartphone app that explains if a theoretical member of the appropriate gender is within range and interested in what the app owner is looking for. "just fun hookup" or whatever. And the physical token needs an "off" switch.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:08PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:08PM (#102218)

              You realize you just described grindr and tinder, right?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:10PM (#102219)

          Hint: if "friendzone" is part of your mental model for interacting with women, then there's a good chance that you're a creep.

          but the only way you're going to get any action after a ridiculous over the top corny pickup line is if she already decided she likes you before you made a fool of yourself or creep.

          Or, put simply, people who are attracted to you are attracted to you. Modeling dating as adversarial is unlikely to go well.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by kaszz on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:55PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:55PM (#102109) Journal

      "There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention?"

      The point is to spam their environment with courtship signals. That unwanted men give them attention is just a side effect of the tool.

    • (Score: 2) by cafebabe on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:28PM

      by cafebabe (894) on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:28PM (#102116) Journal

      Not having a picture basically is an admission that anyone who saw you wouldn't be attracted, since from the little bit I've seen over the years, even mildly attractive people put pictures online.

      There are some curious exceptions to that rule:-

      • Professional sportspeople.
      • High-ranking executives.
      • High-ranking civil servants.
      • Under-cover officers.
      • Celebrities (through prudence or image rights assignments).
      • Transsexuals in transition.
      • People with Body Dismorphic Disorder.
      • People on witness protection programs.
      • Attractive people who doubt they have an attractive personality.

      Admittedly, an account without a clear picture might belong to an ugly person but, to counter that, an attractive picture might have some relationship with the account owner.

      --
      1702845791×2
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @07:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @07:10PM (#102134)

        I believe you are suffering from selection bias.

        I've noticed more than a few women with attractive pictures on pof turn them off after a few weeks. Occasionally they will go halfway and just disable the more flattering photos and keep the ones that are more obscured. I tend to bookmark the good looking ones (after they pass a google image search to verify they are not forgeries). Then I'll come back to their profiles a few weeks later to see if they are still around, if they've filled in any details that make them sound like more than just a pretty face, etc. Sure lots of them keep their pictures visible, probably even a majority, but I've seen plenty who have disabled them too.

        You probably don't do that, so you are unlikely to notice when a pretty woman decides her looks are drawing too many flies and that maybe she needs to cut back on the honey and go with more vinegar.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:14PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:14PM (#102222)

      There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention?

      Sometimes yes, sometimes no. People dress themselves different ways for lots of reasons; attracting sexual partners is only one reason that may or may not be in play for a particular person. Even a woman wearing revealing clothing may be doing so for reasons other than attracting men. Maybe it's hot out. Maybe she just likes dressing that way. Maybe she wants to attract women.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @05:10AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @05:10AM (#102309)

      I know nothing about dating, and am not qualified to comment on any story about dating and romance, but maybe someone more clued-in than myself can explain why this isn't so dumb it makes your head hurt.

      They have basically come up with an app that acts as a spam filter. Why does that concept make your head hurt?

      There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention? If dating sites are creepy, go somewhere else. Not like you don't know what you're going to get, right?

      I'm afraid that cuts both ways. If you act creepy, don't be surprised that you get a lot of rejections.

      Not having a picture basically is an admission that anyone who saw you wouldn't be attracted,

      No, it is actually a recognition that they are getting too many guys respond with "ZOMG!!! You look gorgeous! I must show you my dick!"

      My point is the females who use this app aren't going to be any different than the females who don't, so what value does this app add? Jumping through hoops answering questions isn't going to be something men want to do, it is?

      It would seem that the point is that if guys want to get to know these women then they will have to jump through these hoops. Whether the women can actually get the guys to actually do this remains to be seen.

      Anyhow, after seeing how stupid dating is, I think I'm going to stick with the Buddhist thing and take the five - seven - how many precepts can you take? After an article like this, I want to take all of them. The problem is, even after going away and meditating on dukkha for a few weeks, when I come back, the news is even nuttier than it was when I left!

      Yes, life is strange. It is those who can adapt who will learn to survive. Stay safe out there!

  • (Score: 3) by Phoenix666 on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:27PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:27PM (#102182) Journal

    These are two things that are the same, in terms of supply and demand. Yes, there are as many women as there are men. Yes, there are as many skilled jobs as there are skilled workers. The trick is to find the circumstance, or contrive the circumstances, where the asking price is higher than the equilibrium price where supply = demand. You want to be the only ok-looking guy in the room full of attractive women. You want to be the only Cobol Programmer in the room full of desperate banks. The ability to set those terms is the only thing that matters when it comes to your reproductive and employment success. Everything else is bullshit and voodoo.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @02:54AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @02:54AM (#102280)

    Where's the post that begins "As a woman engineer I ..."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @05:17AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @05:17AM (#102310)

      Where's the post that begins "As a woman engineer I ..."

      All the women engineers have left SN. They were all chased away. Because of you. It's your fault. Bastard!