A co-worker and I were discussing datacenter fire suppression systems, and I recall when I worked at Eglin an incident where a man was killed in a fire suppression discharge. This led me to wonder, since I'm in a lot of different datacenters a lot of the time, what should I do if there was a halon drop? Just hold my breath and run for it? Duck and cover, hold breath and close eyes for 10 seconds, wait for visibility to improve, then run? Just bend over and kiss it goodbye?
Some web searches did not reveal any writing on how to survive a fire suppression discharge. Anyone here actually been in one?
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(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:14AM
The linked story is about a person who died from a foam fire suppression system. Halon, as used in fire suppression systems, is not normally toxic. You won't even pass out from oxygen deprivation because it binds with the hydrogen atoms, not the oxygen atoms. In metal fires halon can react to produce some acids, but that is likely to be the least of your problems because metal fires are crazy hot.
I used to work with a guy who had been through a couple of hundred halon dumps because he worked on fire suppression systems, he was a little wonky, but that was probably due to the pot.
(Score: 5, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:26AM
I have an older boat with a halon extinguisher in the engine compartment, but you can't buy these any more. Isn't halon a extremely bad for the ozone layer?
This seems to suggest that halon was just outright banned:
http://www.facilitiesnet.com/firesafety/article/Why-Halon-Fire-Suppression-Systems-Were-Banned--10300# [facilitiesnet.com]
And this confirms it:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/fire/qa.html#qA1 [epa.gov]
It's been banned for two decades now, though apparently you can buy recycled halon from decommissioned systems.
Anyway, the article poster might want to double check the systems really are halon.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @06:02AM
though apparently you can buy recycled halon from decommissioned systems.
More likely stolen. Thieves raided the company I worked for some years ago, and we were told after that it was common since the stuff was hard to get.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday February 04 2015, @06:12AM
Halon's whole claim to fame was that you could breath it long enough to get out of the area.
But I thought it was withdrawn from the market because of Ozone depletion or something?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 5, Informative) by RedBear on Wednesday February 04 2015, @08:45AM
I believe a far more important selling point as far as many companies were concerned was that Halon is a gas that leaves no residue and doesn't generally destroy sensitive items like paper and electronics, unlike foam, water, CO2, dry chem, etc. It's a nice perk to be able to suppress a small fire in a data center without having to write off ten million dollars worth of server equipment because it was destroyed by whatever you used to put out the fire.
Yes, the manufacture of Halon has been banned for many years as a CFC but there are non-CFC Halon replacements such as "Halotron" that are available, and it is still legal to continue using whatever Halon has been stockpiled by manufacturers pre-ban or salvaged from old Halon installations.
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @09:59AM
I am a sensitive item you insensitive clod!
(Score: 5, Funny) by hendrikboom on Wednesday February 04 2015, @04:13PM
I'm an insensitive clod you insensitive clod!
(Score: 5, Informative) by sigma on Wednesday February 04 2015, @06:39AM
Halon and other CFCs are long gone from almost all fire suppression systems, and as far as I'm aware nobody is still manufacturing them. The standard replacement is FM200 or a similar equivalent, and you can survive a FM200 dump by continuing to breathe, and walking normally to fresh air.
http://www2.dupont.com/FE/en_US/assets/downloads/pdf_fm/k23261_FM-200_PUSH.pdf [dupont.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by FatPhil on Wednesday February 04 2015, @11:48AM
And of course, even in a Halon dump, don't panic - walk normally to fresh air, it may not be good for you, but the time for harm is measured in minutes, not seconds. No duck-and-cover, either - it's dense stuff, designed to smother flames.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Informative) by MrNemesis on Wednesday February 04 2015, @12:45PM
Was going to chime in with the same; the last time I was directly involved with our datacentre operations about five years ago Halon had been nowhere to be seen for at least a decade and a quick visit to wikipedia says it's not been in production since 1998 and is reserved for highly critical applications only.
The last system I oversaw was argonite/IG55, basically an argon/nitrogen mix. Like it says on the tin [firesuppression.co.uk] it's designed to reduce the level of free oxygen down from 21% to 12-15% which is still breathable, although the DC still had breathing mask stations installed from when it used to have a less friendly (presumably halon or HFC) suppression system.
"To paraphrase Nietzsche, I have looked into the abyss and been sick in it."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by gman003 on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:35AM
I don't know shit about halon survival, but here's my general emergency-situation advice:
Don't panic. One of the most important, and most difficult, things to do in a crisis is nothing. In a fire-suppression event, don't run until you know where you're running to. The event I remember studying had several people die because they ran past the door or window they could have escaped from. If it's a place you know like the back of your hand, yes, book it straight for the exit, but if you can't see, slow down so you don't overshoot. If you're not familiar with the place, take a few seconds to remember, and see if you can latch on to someone else to follow.
While there is something to be said for having fast reflexes, it doesn't help if they're the WRONG reflexes. When the last earthquake hit, my instincts threw me under a doorway (not the best response, under the desks would have been far better, but not a completely wrong one). Everyone else's response was to crowd around me - literally, a dozen people standing not under the doorway, but next to it. Completely useless. Others walked outside the building (smart) then stood right outside, underneath the large glass panes (dumb). I realize nobody gets taught earthquake survival on the east coast, but seriously, think. Don't get paralyzed trying to think of the exact right thing to do, but don't shut your mind down and run on instinct unless it's an emergency you've been through so many times the correct action has *become* instinct.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @06:03AM
And lose all the fun? I mean, if I'm not panicking now and I'll be dead anyway...
(Score: 5, Funny) by mhajicek on Wednesday February 04 2015, @12:10PM
Do you have peril sensitive sunglasses?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Nuke on Wednesday February 04 2015, @02:43PM
Fortunately I have never been in a real emergency situation, but at my work we have occasional fire practices. I am in a large open plan ground floor and when the alarm goes everyone queues up to go out of the main exit door. Yet there are six fire exits around the floor and I just go straight out the nearest. The people in the queue just stand and stare at me as if I am some kind of nut. After every drill there is a debrief and I always bring this up, but the fire marshalls are more interested in how neat the line-up was on the lawn afterwards.
But the worst thing is how people behave when they step outside the building. They immediately stop. There is a whole packed bunch of people standing chatting within 5 yards of the exit while the queue inside the building cannot move forward. There is an upper floor too, whose people cannot get down the stairs (which lead straight down to that main exit) because the ground floor people are clogging that exit instead of having used the fire exits I mentioned. These are supposedly intelligent people too, techies mostly.
Would people behave any differently in a real emergency? I don't think so. In most real emergencies most people do not even realise it is an real emergency. The first thing I hear people say when the fire alarm goes off is "I expect it's just a drill".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 05 2015, @05:09PM
The first thing I hear people say when the fire alarm goes off is "I expect it's just a drill".
This makes perfect sense, because 99% of time IT IS (either drill or a false alarm, that is). People have simply decided that their convenience is more important than a small chance of disaster.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Sir Finkus on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:49AM
I don't have much to add to the discussion, but here's a better picture of what the fire suppression system in the linked article might have looked like.
http://i.imgur.com/xUr9raM.jpg [imgur.com]
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(Score: 4, Informative) by Roo_Boy on Wednesday February 04 2015, @07:54AM
We had an accidental discharge (system had a glitch and thought there was a fire) at work once and other than the god almighty noise it was just a case of hold your breath and walk to the door.
On a side note, this used to be a halon system but had been changed out to use NAF (ozone depletion and all that). NAF was supposed to be a perfect replacement in areas with electronic equipment (think server room, equipment room etc). After the event, other than the paper all over the floor, there was no mess and a citrusy scent in the air. But an hour later all the keyboards in the room started to fail and it turned out the rubber membranes in the keyboards had melted on all of them. Good thing it wasn't a server room :P
--- The S.I. prototype "Average Punter" is kept in a tube of inert gas in Geneva.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday February 04 2015, @08:50AM
Why? Is there often a lot of rubber in a server room these days? I'm trying to think of something, and the only thing I can come up with is that possibly some cables might use rubber insulation, but I can only remember seeing a couple such cables in the last decade.
I mean sure, there may be a handful of keyboards around in case you need to do the whole "physical access" thing on a recalcitrant box, but odds are probably good they're not even plugged in.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday February 04 2015, @12:53PM
I don't think anyone's used rubber in a keyboard in generations, but limonene is a great solvent for cleaning up silicone and silicone is used in cheap shitty keyboards. Mechs won't be affected.
Look at the bright side, the fires would have been incredible if the power supply wires were insulated with silicone insulation.
Personally I'd freak about the odor because most of the halon replacements are floroucarbons and there really is no safe dose of HF, so if you can still smell the lemons you're bones will rot out from under you due to the HF ... if there had actually been a fire. Accidental discharge shouldn't matter because there wasn't a fire to generate the HF? The HF isn't going to be very good for anything in the building, but the stuff will probably last long enough to be copied.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Happy.Heyoka on Wednesday February 04 2015, @11:04AM
I Am Not An Organic Chemist (IANAOC, love it ;) but my bet would be on Limonene (hence the citrus smell) dissolving your keyboards.
(The links on Wikipedia of pentafluoroethane are good - reading the linked patent and MSDS stuff they add it to some of the suppression systems)
(Score: 5, Interesting) by fritsd on Wednesday February 04 2015, @01:55PM
Limonene is a fascinating industrial solvent.
It is biodegradable, hardly poisonous, and smells nice, and evaporates quickly. Also, what other productive uses are there for rotting citrus peels?
HOWEVER.
If you ever, after eating an orange or grapefruit, light a candle and squeeze the peel next to it (mind your eyebrows) then you'd wonder who in his/her right mind would use it as a fire suppressant.
(Score: 1) by lars on Wednesday February 04 2015, @11:17PM
Capacitors are sealed on the bottom with rubber.
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Wednesday February 04 2015, @12:52PM
It's meant to kill fire. Which is much tougher than you. Unless you're next to the exit you are going to die.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:29PM
I can survive under water much longer than a normal fire would survive under the same conditions, so I dispute your claim that fire is in every respect tougher than humans.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday February 04 2015, @01:11PM
About 25 years ago the alarms went off due to a mistake and I got to stand there with my finger on the override button while some very embarrassed fire suppression techs fixed their mistake. The physical dump is supposedly loud, I donno, but for ten seconds before a dump or whatever the delay, it sounds like the end of the world with flashing lights and alarm buzzers. Part of SOP for my holding down the button is the machine room may have been a couple acres but had good sight lines so a dump is almost certainly a mistake unless I see or smell a fire, and the overpressure is supposed to be high enough to blow the tiles out of the floor making evac a bit complicated for anyone still stuck in there, so I should wait till everyone else escaped before running for it. The emergency door to the outside world being about 6 feet away from the control panel means this doesn't require much bravery just a certain calmness under fire. It reminded me very much of the self destruct sequence from the star trek movie right before it blew up, very impressive sights and sounds. Also the halon system reportedly cuts power to the entire room so we'd be in the dark except for emergency battery lights, so holding down the buttons prevented all manner of disaster, multi hour reboots and all that.
Another anecdote is 30 or so years ago I worked at a food store with a deli where one of the employees set the grease fryer on fire while cleaning it (pretty easy, the stupid thing didn't have a cutout for either temp, or opening the lid, or opening the drain valve, or anything at all, and the temp sensor was far away from the heating coils, so draining the oil while powered up meant automatic guaranteed fire a couple minutes later. Oh and I forgot to mention, the oil draining pump required the power to be on. So you have to drain it powered up and heating, then immediately kill power not just to the drain pump, but to the heaters too. Shitty 1950s design probably should be illegal (in fact probably was illegal even back then). Anyway after the halon dump, every milligram of grease or WTF on the walls melted to the floor, which I assure you was an unholy mess to clean up. Like dumping a gallon of poly wood finish around the perimeter of the room. On the other hand, the walls and the inside of the ventilator hood were sparkly clean. We basically solvent washed every square inch above floor level, onto the floor. Pretty freaky stuff. Supposedly it was terrifyingly loud.
Also most halon systems are hooked up to monitoring svcs etc so by the time you hear the warning klaxon the fire department is already contacted and on the way. And unless you have a "real" evac plan, everyone's going to be standing in the parking lot by the door WTFing, while the fire trucks are trying to get in. So my advice is figure out where the fire trucks will enter and park and get the heck out of the way.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @02:14PM
It's a lot like that, but less rectal bleeding.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04 2015, @05:52PM
There was a halon fire suppression system in my school data center (don't recall what kind). The system was on a 30 second delay timer from when the alarm first sounded to when it discharged. There was also a manual button (inside the room) that would immediately discharge when pressed. I was working in the lab one afternoon when some techs that were servicing the AC unit some how triggered the alarm. When I realized what was happening I got the three of us out of the room, and watched the system discharge through a window. It made a big mess in the form of a large white cloud, leaving a thin film of dust everywhere. It smelled bad, but the fire department allowed us back into the room after about 30 minutes.
The training we were given said to get out if safe to do so. If exiting was not an option, we were to duck and cover, since the discharge would send small items like pens and paper flying, then exit as quickly as possible. I was told that the system displaced enough oxygen that a person would survive, but stopped any open flames. There are usually OSHA rules about training people on complex systems like these. Perhaps you could request something akin to the MSDS for the chemicals used on your system. Since school some 15 years ago, I have never worked in an area with these systems. Our data centers all use traditional H2O sprinklers, so I don't have any current experience.
-JHG
(Score: 5, Interesting) by tynin on Wednesday February 04 2015, @07:39PM
We had an FM200 discharge due to contractors working on a HVAC did something to cause them to trip. Now normally, we'd get a 60 second count down in the form of strobes and sirens of doom bellowing throughout the building. It let everyone know they had 1 minute to calmly get out, except for the poor folks working in the NOC who had to go investigate and hold a button if it was a false alarm. This time, we had no 60 second countdown. What we did have was what seemed like an Earth Shattering Kaboom. I was out on the datacenter floor, kicking some server back to life, when all of the canisters released in a slightly staggered, thoroughly terrifying pattern, all around. I later found out they have explosive caps that help expedite the dispersal of the gas into the overhead piping where it dumps out everywhere. After the kaboom, there was a high pitched roar of fast moving gas and the room quickly filled with a haze of white gas. I bolted out of the datacenter like a rabbit during the start of hunting season and was soon met by the nice people from our local fire station who checked me out. If I recall what they told me correctly, some people can have some skin irritation, others get headaches, but it is otherwise harmless. I suffered no issues from it and was in the room for far longer than I would have cared to be.
As an aside, at that same datacenter, about 4 years before the system accidentally went off, we had only just installed it. They put the 60 second abort buttons all over the place, because they really didn't want the system to go off as it is expensive to refill/cleanup. So a false alarm happens at 2am. The only people in the building is the NOC. And the NOC being perpetually understaffed only had 1 person on shift. The button the guy was near when the system went into count down mode didn't have a phone near it. And this was a time before cellphones were common. He stood out in the datacenter for about 5 hours holding that button till the day shifters got in.