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posted by janrinok on Friday February 06 2015, @11:35PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the depends-which-side-you-are-on dept.

Erik Wemple writes at the Washington Post that Fox News recently took the controversial step of posting a horrific 22-minute video online that shows Jordanian pilot Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh being burned to death warning internet users that the presentation features "extremely graphic video." "After careful consideration, we decided that giving readers of FoxNews.com the option to see for themselves the barbarity of ISIS outweighed legitimate concerns about the graphic nature of the video," said Fox executive John Moody. "Online users can choose to view or not view this disturbing content."

But Fox's decision drew condemnation from some terrorism experts. "[Fox News] are literally — literally — working for al-Qaida and ISIS's media arm," said Malcolm Nance. "They might as well start sending them royalty checks." YouTube removed a link to the video a few hours after it was posted, and a spokesperson for Facebook told the Guardian that if anyone posted the video to the social networking site it would be taken down. CNN explained that it wouldn't surface any of the disturbing images because they were gruesome and constituted propaganda that the network didn't want to distribute. "Does posting this video advance the aims of this terror group or hinder its progress by laying bare its depravity?" writes Wemple. "Islamic State leaders may indeed delight in the distribution of the video — which could be helpful in converting extremists to its cause — but they may be mis-calibrating its impact. If the terrorists expected to intimidate the world with their display of barbarity, they may be disappointed with the reaction of Jordan, which is vowing "strong, earth-shaking and decisive" retaliation."

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 06 2015, @11:44PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 06 2015, @11:44PM (#142040)

    There is push after Arroa not to publish murders' names. Why not here too?

    You can note the facts: Pilot, Death. What is the reason for showing the video or giving them a name?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Friday February 06 2015, @11:50PM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Friday February 06 2015, @11:50PM (#142043) Journal

      Your propaganda is my propaganda, now! It serves political purpose and validates quest for the might of the state as a superior interest over other priorities.

      Is that "journalistic"? NO! With the merger of state power as the enforcing vehicle for mandating corporate interests, a "free" press owned by corporations will not EVER serve a function of 5th Estate journalism.

      --
      You're betting on the pantomime horse...
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:22AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:22AM (#142084)

      It's Aurora. And the murderer's name is James Eagan Holmes.

      I heard a man who lost his son in the Aurora attack trying to convince media outlets not to publicize mass murderers' names or pictures. If you publicize the crime, there will be copycat crimes, he says. It causes unbalanced individuals to go out and seek fame. But it's a precrime argument. Rather than deal with gun control or improving treatment of mental illness, we should censor the media. It's the same bullshit argument that people use to blame those two NY cops' deaths on the media coverage of Ferguson/Garner. It's manufacturing cause and effect to justify censoring the media and history. What reason is there to publish a story about the pilot at all, or any story ever? The names are facts, and the video is more than fact, it's evidence.

      At least one Fox host gave "because you need to understand the brutality" as a reason for showing the video. Anyone who watched the full version online had a choice not to.

      Ban the evil violent video games that are causing Columbine/Sandy Hook, then we can talk about censoring the news media.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:45AM (#142093)

        A question to ask is why did ISIS publish the video?
        Do they gain anything by having it uncritically featured on the most popular news network in the world?

        Should a news network host videos of fatal car accidents? How about suicide videos? Sex tapes? Sex abuse images?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:01AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:01AM (#142102)

          "Islamic State leaders may indeed delight in the distribution of the video — which could be helpful in converting extremists to its cause — but they may be mis-calibrating its impact"

          Just because their videos are slickly produced brutal propaganda doesn't mean that its proliferation is an automatic win for ISIS. Now Jordan and perhaps Saudi Arabia will ramp up the coalition effort against ISIS (90% effort has been the US, and there are no ground troops).

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:02AM

          by anubi (2828) on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:02AM (#142103) Journal

          Why did they publish?

          Its a "leadership" technique. FEAR.

          How many of us choose to follow something we don't agree with because we are afraid to do otherwise?

          I did not realize myself the importance of the fear component until our little company got "managementized" and our "leaders" started practicing "leadership skills".

          Prior to that, we did what we did because it was what each of us had an internal drive to do.

          When our behaviour became forced and externally directed, I - for one - lost that drive. The name they had for it was "burnout"

          I did not burn out - I still do my design stuff - its just I know now I cannot do creative work under the watchful eye and stopwatches of micromanagement. Best do that overseas where people can still do stuff without American business-school graduates throwing monkey wrenches into the works.

          --
          "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @11:24AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @11:24AM (#142201)

            How many of us choose to follow something we don't agree with because we are afraid to do otherwise?

            Yes I'm married, thanks for reminding me...

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by tathra on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:18PM

            by tathra (3367) on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:18PM (#142251)

            Its a "leadership" technique. FEAR.

            it is a leadership technique, but its a terrible one that comes at high costs, makes your group disfunctional, and eventually self-destructs.

            the cost of [businesses] leading by fear [insideindianabusiness.com]
            4 drawbacks of fear-based leadership [asmithblog.com]

            a far better technique is to lead by example and keep morale high such that your subordinates will willingly die for you, instead of having to threaten to kill or fire them if they don't do something.

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday February 10 2015, @12:43AM

              by anubi (2828) on Tuesday February 10 2015, @12:43AM (#142943) Journal

              Thanks for the links, tathra!

              Those links sure confirm what I experienced personally. I found the management techniques used on me extremely destructive on all levels. For all practical purposes, it destroyed me as well as the little company I used to work for, however a very select group of people made out like a bandit - then used the gains to make themselves look even more important as they went on to wreak destruction in any other company that would take them in. You could hire four damn good engineers for the cost of one of those high-falutin' hand-shaking suit-guys, and all that suit-guy would do is get rid of anyone he saw a threat - starting with the people who knew anything he didn't.

              That last link you gave seemed like the movie of what happened to me. It went down exactly as reported. Especially the loss of faith being assigned to work for some young kid who had "leadership", but no technical skills; as I had always worked with people who based decisions on technical criteria, not politics. I could communicate if we discuss technical merits and tradeoffs, but it seemed damn near impossible for me to "fit in" with the "team player" crowd who seemed to spend more time in recreation than in getting anything done. The problem with me is my work *is* my recreation!

              Some of us went to College to learn something, and some went there to make business contacts. I am one of the former and quite a loner as few understand just what it is I do. Easy pickin's for a suit-guy to lay off. Why would someone want to mess with the complexities of lead-lag compensation of phase-locked loops when he could be shaking the hand of a suit-guy with a power tie?

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:27PM (#142254)
        Actually if the cops are good at catching them, maybe you should publish such stuff to catch the copycats.

        Keep that up for enough generations and you might breed better humans. Better than terrible me at least ;). For similar reasons it's why I sometimes think that maybe it would be better that if parents realize their kids are psychopathic/sociopathic children, they shouldn't spend so much effort to train/condition them to work within the system (and say become CEOs, investment bankers or politicians and wreak even more damage), perhaps they should just let them "crash and burn".

        Hey, breeding those nice friendly dogs from wolves involved plenty of "collateral damage". Domesticating humans isn't going to be all nice either.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 06 2015, @11:54PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 06 2015, @11:54PM (#142047)

    I'm sure that Fox put it on their website for its prurient value value first (if it bleeds it leads, or in this case if it burns it earns) and for its informative value a somewhat distant second. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be seen, just that Fox is more interested in monetizing it than in using it as part of a high-quality analysis of events. How much they should be condemned for that is a different question, one without any hard and fast answers.

    The only "snuff film" I've ever watched was that of Neda Soltan's murder [wikipedia.org] and it affected me deeply. I think this film serves a similar purpose - to show the barbarity of the killers and even more the humanity of the victim. And while I don't need to see any more people killed to know that killing is barbaric, that doesn't mean everyone else has reached that point in their life yet.

    One thing Fox could have done is make it difficult to view without first watching some discussion deeper than "WARNING, EXTREMELY GRAPHIC VIDEO." Just playing the raw video is, by definition, not balanced. The killing seems to have converted many of his fellow Jordanians from scepticism to strong supporters of the fight against ISIS. That's probably a good thing, but over-reaction is always a risk. I worry that the further away people are from the conflict there, the more likely they are to be swayed into supporting heavy-handed policies for dealing with ISIS, they very kind of policies that started the chain reaction that created ISIS.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:49AM

      by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:49AM (#142069) Journal

      Just a few days ago a video of a beheading of a woman in a crosswalk in Saudi Arabia while police stood around protecting the swordsman appeared on the web. This wasn't some whackjob jihadist video, it was mainstream islam being played out on the streets of an islamic country with the full protection and encouragement of the state.

      I'd post a link, but google works for you as well as for me.

      Sanitized stills aren't doing the job of educating the west to understand that ISIS does in fact represent mainstream Islam.

      As long as the soccer moms can go home and watch TV and be spared the details nothing will change.
      The world will continue to cling to the belief that Islam is the religion of peace, that you can reason with these people.
      The world needs to start re-defining islam the same way the world re-defined slavery, and start outlawing it everywhere.

      Raw video is truth. Balanced or not. Edited video is a lie.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:08AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:08AM (#142077)

        Saudi is the most repressive islamic country there is, by a long shot. If they didn't have all that oil money they wouldn't be able to get away with such authoritarianism. It would be just as valid to hold them up as the penultimate example of the effects of mainstream oil industry. After all, any third world country with an oil industry, regardless of religion, ends up having massive social and economic problems too, murder being plenty common.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:16AM

          by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:16AM (#142081) Journal

          If they didn't have all that oil money they wouldn't be able to get away with such authoritarianism.

          Nonsense.
          Iran is a pauper state by comparison.
          So were the Taliban when they ran Afghanistan.
          Public executions and stoning to death were common, and still are.

          This isn't a problem caused by Money.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:23AM (#142085)

            Hhhm. So counter-examples disprove the linkage. Funny how that works.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:56AM

            by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:56AM (#142098) Journal

            Women are doctors, surgeons, bank presidents, university professors, mechanical engineers and - yes - venture capitalists in Iran. This is not tokenism - 20 percent of surgeons are female.

            Tehran is also a skiing capital - but Hey! Go ahead and take the brainwashing. It was free!

            --
            You're betting on the pantomime horse...
            • (Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:22PM

              by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:22PM (#142290) Journal

              But for obvious reasons none of those women are women who were stoned to death. And they're all still owned by someone, they are ultimately property, anything else is unislamic.

              And for the same reason none of them are gay.

              There's not much reason to “defend” Iran, you can ski in Saudi Arabia (or one of their puppet states) as well. In both places you can also drown in a burka on the beach if you want to try swimming.

              Learn from Syriza and stop propagating outdated trench warfare along dead borders based on who associated with who during the cold war. Syriza is in coalition with the new right in Greece: Independent Greeks (ANEL) [wikipedia.org]. Both UKIP and Front Nationale have praised Syriza for standing up for Greece. Greece has to stop the zergling rush though, otherwise nothing will work (and the same goes for everyone else across Europe).

              Meanwhile in Rotherdam the tally of victims keeps increasing while “people”/media pretend it isn't symptomatic.

              --
              Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
              • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:02PM

                by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:02PM (#142299) Journal

                I think you know little about Iran and Iranians. "Property"? There are more religious views of women in lower classes - true. But Iranian women vote and run in campaigns. Iranian women have property rights independent of their male relatives or married status.

                Iranians will always be Iranian-Indo-Aryan people first, above other cultural and ideological trends. It's thousands of years old...

                --
                You're betting on the pantomime horse...
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:08PM

                by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:08PM (#142301) Journal

                Saudi women are stoned for driving. Iranian women lead the nation's Formula 1 circuit... :-)

                500 pages of things that would have Saudis imprisoned - or Hasidim, for that matter!
                http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=351718 [skyscrapercity.com]

                --
                You're betting on the pantomime horse...
          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:41AM

            by Arik (4543) on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:41AM (#142116) Journal
            The Iranians are clearly less oppressive if you are Jewish or Shia, perhaps if you are Sunni you might be happier in Saudi. To some degree these things are relative. However beheading is currently practiced by only two entities - Saudi and daesh, and this is no coïncidence. Virtually all of the negative stereotypes we have about Muslims in this country have their root in one school of Islam specifically - the Wahabbi. And that school is the school sponsored by the Saudis. Even just 20 years ago they had very little influence outside the kingdom. The numerous interventions, the wars and destruction, have weakened or destroyed moderate groups and put the extremists in control. Why would anyone believe more of the same will somehow fix that?

            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ayn Anonymous on Saturday February 07 2015, @07:07AM

              by Ayn Anonymous (5012) on Saturday February 07 2015, @07:07AM (#142161)

              "...if you are Sunni..." Are you kidding me ?
              Only the stupid, week and cowardly believe in a higher being

            • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday February 07 2015, @04:47PM

              by fritsd (4586) on Saturday February 07 2015, @04:47PM (#142236) Journal

              IANAM, so read the following with a grain of salt, but what I find really shocking is the *deafening silence* from, say, Al Azhar [wikipedia.org], or Qom [wikipedia.org], about all this violence by IS in the name of Islam.

              Why is there not a "fatwa" from a bunch of highly respected islamic scholars (Sunni or Shia or both at the same time), denouncing the things IS does as "un-islamic"?

              It makes sense that people living in strict islamic countries don't listen to complaints from the US or Western Europe, but why don't their own religious leaders stand up and speak out?

              It could be that I just don't read about it because I can only read 2 letters of Arabic (a and l) but AFAIK it doesn't get reported in, say, de Volkskrant or BBC News. It would be important world news. Maybe even Fox News would mention it, if it happened.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:17PM

                by Arik (4543) on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:17PM (#142242) Journal
                "It could be that I just don't read about it because I can only read 2 letters of Arabic (a and l) but AFAIK it doesn't get reported in, say, de Volkskrant or BBC News. It would be important world news. Maybe even Fox News would mention it, if it happened."

                It happens all the time, the press dont seem very interested.

                Here's an example: http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/

                --
                If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:52PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:52PM (#142261)

                  Here's what the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar thinks:
                  http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/122176/Egypt/Politics-/AlAzhar-head-says-IS-murderers-deserve-to-be-kille.aspx [ahram.org.eg]

                  The head of Al-Azhar, Egypt's pre-eminent Sunni Islamic institute, has strongly condemned the killing of a Jordanian pilot by the "terrorist, devilish" Islamic State (IS).
                  Ahmed El-Tayeb said: "The Quran mandates that the perpetrators of this cowardly act, which goes against God's word, deserve to be killed, or crucified, or have their legs and arms amputated." He also called on the international community to fight against the "barbaric, savagery" of IS that is against the teachings of Allah and his prophet Mohamed

                  When I stand back a bit the differences between ISIS and Al-Azhar get a bit blurry ;). They start to look like two sides of the same coin. After all don't the ISIS say similar sort of things?

                  In my country there are very many Muslims who support the ISIS. And even more who support serving Islam by fighting and killing others and consider it good or even encouraged. It is actually easier for Muslims to justify these actions and other violent actions using Islam (hence that statement by the Grand Imam), compared to say Buddhists (those in Sri Lanka and Myanmar try to justify their actions, but it's pretty obvious they're stretching things a _lot_).

                  But all Muslims should ask themselves: "When Muslims kill each other in the name/defence of Islam, and all sides (as usual) call their dead Shahid (Martyrs), will God really be pleased with all of them, regard them as Shahid and reward them accordingly? If you kill someone how sure are you that God will regard you as Shahid? What if you are the bad guy and the person you just killed is now a Shahid?

                  • (Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:35PM

                    by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:35PM (#142292) Journal

                    Beware the relativism because all of islam is part of the same face of the same coin. On the other side of the coin is the US government and the global totalitarian system of surveillance and manipulation. Along the surface of the rim of the coin are all the “politically correct”, the media, the apologists, the suicidal pacifists, everyone who hasn't caught on, and so on.

                    You can flip that coin as many times as you wish but you can't win, not even when it stands on edge.

                    --
                    Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fritsd on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:51PM

                  by fritsd (4586) on Saturday February 07 2015, @08:51PM (#142295) Journal

                  Thanks for the informative link Arik. Blimey but that epistle is difficult to read. I guess IANAMufti :-)

                  Your link is much more informative than any video of horrible acts perpetrated by IS.

                  It is not clear to me who wrote it. Is that on purpose?

                  To people surfing to that site: you have to click on the little yellow arrows to turn the pages. It uses Adobe Flash. It is long and boring so brew some tea or coffee. It might make you sick to your stomach reading about IS.

                  I liked paragraph 4 "Difference of opinion" about "severity", and paragraph 7 "killing emissaries" about the journalists, which is very clearly written.

                  About par. 11: are Magians the same as Zoroastrians?

                  Paragraph 18 about mutilation has a very prophetic comment, I think:

                  "You have provided ample ammunition for all those who want to call Islam barbaric with your broadcasting of barbaric acts which you pretend are for the sake of Islam. You have given the world a stick with which to beat Islam whereas in reality Islam is completely innocent of these acts and prohibits them."

                  I am reminded of a certain blonde politician from the Netherlands who is in full agreement with that statement :-/ .

                  par. 21: hmph. Old-fashioned. And what is the issue with wrinkly Ethiopians anyway?

                  Also the arrogance of these people: par. 22 about the caliphate:

                  "who gave you authority over the ummah? Was it your group? If this is the case, then a group of no more than several thousand has appointed itself the ruler of over a billion and a half Muslims. This attitude is based upon a corrupt circular logic that says: ‘Only we are Muslims, and we decide who the caliph is, we have chosen one and so whoever does not accept our caliph is not a Muslim.’ In this case, a caliph is nothing more than the leader of a certain group that declares more than 99% of Muslims non-Muslim."

                  At the end of the letter I notice that some of the signatories are from Nigeria and Chad, I bet they're applying the same text to Boko Haram and come to the same conclusion about those criminals.

                  • (Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:19PM

                    by Arik (4543) on Saturday February 07 2015, @09:19PM (#142306) Journal
                    "It is not clear to me who wrote it. Is that on purpose?"

                    I believe the first 11 signatories claim joint authorship, they are the ones pictured if you scroll down the page a bit, starting with Sheikh bin Bayyah of Abu Dhabi and going through Prof. Din Syamsuddin of Indonesia.

                    "To people surfing to that site: you have to click on the little yellow arrows to turn the pages. It uses Adobe Flash. It is long and boring so brew some tea or coffee. It might make you sick to your stomach reading about IS."

                    Actually easier. Disable flash. Scroll down the page to where it says 'download translations' and click English (or whatever you prefer.)

                    "About par. 11: are Magians the same as Zoroastrians?"

                    Yes, another name for the same thing.

                    "At the end of the letter I notice that some of the signatories are from Nigeria and Chad, I bet they're applying the same text to Boko Haram and come to the same conclusion about those criminals."

                    Yes. Boko Haram is a big worry there, and they make a point of killing any legitimate religious scholars they find btw.

                    --
                    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:25AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:25AM (#142110)

          > penultimate

          Really?

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:01AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:01AM (#142120)

            Yes, the US is now the largest oil producer, the Saudis are second. I chose the word deliberately.

            • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:59AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:59AM (#142130)
              penultimate means next to last.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:24AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:24AM (#142086)

        If you want to prove your point, and you say you have the link, post the damn link. Burn that karma boy

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by naubol on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:52AM

        by naubol (1918) on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:52AM (#142128)

        No, raw video is not the truth. If it was, then mainstream US is well represented by .

        On the other hand, raw video often fails to balance out what happens under the hood. For instance, we're not going to post raw video that convincingly demonstrates the disproportionately high number of heterosexual SA men who sleep with bum boys.

        Not only do raw videos lie but edited videos may be closer to the truth when edited by responsible journalists. Journalism is not me handing you primary source material and telling you to put it together, it involves interpretation and synthesization because it takes a lot of work to summarize and contextualize with some degree of honesty.

        The real story here is not that fox wants to put a horrific video on the internet... but that fox's motivation is to simultaneously decrease the amount of work required while increasing viewership through demagoguery, potentially in service to some larger political goals.

        Of course you're right that it is easier to get emotionally worked up by watching a video of a woman being beheaded in the streets in the midst of supportive authority figures than to read about it in a sterile fashion, but I don't accept the premise that this should be how we create political will. What most people really want is the secret joy of being thrilled by being horrified while also knowing with utter certainty that we have to get those bastards, because violence and absolutism is fun and dealing with nuance is so much hard work. But, that doesn't mean we should foster this base desire by shrouding it in high-minded rhetoric.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:13AM

          by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @06:13AM (#142157) Journal

          When you start from the assumption that you suppress the video, nothing you say from that point on means anything.

          You clearly wish to substitute YOUR truth for the truth on the ground, and if the only way you can do that is to make sure nobody sees the truth on the ground, then it is a clear sign that your truth is morally bankrupt.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by SGT CAPSLOCK on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:34AM

    by SGT CAPSLOCK (118) on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:34AM (#142060) Journal

    I don't think any form of censorship is proper. That said, I'd still argue that any video prominently displayed by most mainstream news businesses are usually posted for some specific reason/agenda/whatever.

    Not that doing that is wrong or bad. Do what they want, it doesn't affect me!

    I've been lurking around the Internet for yea on 18 years now, and I've managed pretty well to avoid videos/images/whatever that would make me gag. Seeing someone being murdered in a video would probably make me feel ill; I've never felt that it's hard to avoid seeing that type of trash though, and I've definitely never seen such a thing yet.

    Whoa, there's extra space to type here! I feel like I should have more of an opinion but I don't. ;(

    • (Score: 1) by Anal Pumpernickel on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:53PM

      by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:53PM (#142248)

      Not that doing that is wrong or bad. Do what they want, it doesn't affect me!

      Are you sure? When most people get brainwashed into thinking the US should play world police, whose money are they going to want to steal in order to fund their unjust wars? Everyone's they can get their hands on.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @10:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @10:20PM (#142317)

      The War Photo No One Would Publish [theatlantic.com]

      When Kenneth Jarecke photographed an Iraqi man burned alive, he thought it would change the way Americans saw the Gulf War. But the media wouldn’t run the picture.

      [...]On February 28, 1991, [...] Jarecke took the picture just before a ceasefire officially ended Operation Desert Storm--the U.S.-led military action that drove Saddam Hussein and his troops out of Kuwait, which they had annexed and occupied the previous August. The image and its anonymous subject might have come to symbolize the Gulf War. Instead, it went unpublished in the United States, not because of military obstruction but because of editorial choices.

      If it supports USA militarism/imperialism, it gets published. Otherwise, no.

      -- gewg_

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:35AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:35AM (#142061)

    ...for the same reason that http://www.liveleak.com/ [liveleak.com] is so popular

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @12:40AM (#142062)

      Is this a small nuke being detonated in Afghanistan?

      http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=611_1423232516 [liveleak.com]

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by tibman on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:01AM

        by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:01AM (#142073)

        Not a nuke. Using the flash-to-bang method i estimate that explosion was roughly just over 2.5 km away. Far too close for a nuclear weapon. I was in a city once when an extremely powerful carbomb went off. It looked like a whole layer of the city just peeled off and flew away. It was EVERY bird within several kilometers taking flight as the shockwave hit them.

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        • (Score: 2) by Sir Finkus on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:53AM

          by Sir Finkus (192) on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:53AM (#142094) Journal

          I was in a city once when an extremely powerful carbomb went off.

          I don't suppose you can elaborate on that, if you're comfortable doing so or course.

          • (Score: 5, Interesting) by tibman on Saturday February 07 2015, @07:46AM

            by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 07 2015, @07:46AM (#142166)

            Here's the WP page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Al_Hillah_bombing [wikipedia.org]
            My squad was delivering ammo (mostly 9mm) to the local police hq when the bomb went off. Six in the building and three outside. I was outside. The police building was on the edge of a large market. Cars weren't supposed to be in the market but people do what they want. They didn't want to be inconvenienced when offloading goods. A guy parked the carbomb in the middle of the market. People came apart like legos. You can't triage that. We did what we could but it was getting crazy and the city was swarming in. They were beyond anger. The Polish (don't forget the Polish!) and a Special Forces team (ODA 741) showed up to help. The citizens weren't angry with us but we didn't want to be a convenient punching bag (or be victims to a secondary bomb).

            It was horror, for sure. There were some people burned so bad that they were just the shape of people. Still alive though. No eyes or ears or hair. Just a hole in their face where a mouth should be. Screaming something horrible and inhuman. By law you cannot "put them out of their misery". But you also cannot help them. I saw an infant face down in water, trampled. The water was everywhere because of the fire trucks. But the water was also red. Red puddles all over. The citizens were trying to be helpful. One man was making a pile of shoes. Another man was stacking a pile of fruit from a cart that fell over. Ever see someone try to pick-up too much stuff? like how they pick one item up and another falls from their arms? Imagine that but with pieces of people. Men, women, and children all mixed up. Talk about a moment of clarity in life though. Looking down and seeing a child's shoe in one of those puddles and the world reflected in red around it. Something clicked and i knew my place in the universe.

            We returned to the camp. I cleaned all my weapons (M2, M249, and M9). Got everything laid out and straight for the next day. Then went down to one of the porta-johns (plastic bathrooms like a phonebooth) and had a good cry. I didn't cry again or have difficulties with it for something like a year. Anger kept other emotions away. But after leaving the US Army i finally had to deal with it. Drank a lot for a while : )

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        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:36AM

          by NotSanguine (285) <{NotSanguine} {at} {SoylentNews.Org}> on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:36AM (#142114) Homepage Journal

          Not a nuke. Using the flash-to-bang method i estimate that explosion was roughly just over 2.5 km away. Far too close for a nuclear weapon. I was in a city once when an extremely powerful carbomb went off. It looked like a whole layer of the city just peeled off and flew away. It was EVERY bird within several kilometers taking flight as the shockwave hit them.

          The Natural Gas storage tank explosion in Newark, NJ in December, 1983 was incredibly loud and the shock wave actually shook my (16 story) apartment building (in NYC) some 19km away. For a few minutes, I thought it was Washington, DC getting nuked and I bent way over to kiss my ass goodbye, as I was perhaps 5km from the projected ground zero for a Soviet nuclear attack on NYC.

          the point is that tibman is quite correct that "conventional" explosions can produce huge fireballs and powerful shock waves. I suggest that you hope and (if it means anything to you) pray that you never see a nuclear detonation, as it's likely to be the last thing you ever see. On the bright side, if you're close enough you'll be dead so fast you might not even notice.

          --
          No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:07AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:07AM (#142076)

      Weren't most of the full uncut ISIS videos removed from LiveLeak?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Gravis on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:21AM

    by Gravis (4596) on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:21AM (#142083)

    the purpose of journalism is to report things that have or will happen, not to expose them to it. who is helped by posting such a video? it's certainly not the people who view it. this isn't journalism, it's a freakshow for people to gawk at.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:30AM (#142090)

      I see, so the corporate news media (who absolutely do watch the videos) are the self-appointed stewards of the truth. The public doesn't get to see primary evidence, because they would be gawking at a "freakshow". Despite the fact that only in the most backwards nations, like the UK, is viewing such material thought to be a crime.

      If someone wants to see ISIS tyranny, let them see it. Who are you to decide that people aren't helped by viewing it?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:56AM

      by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:56AM (#142096)

      The US media in general has greatly sanitized war coverage in order to help support for war among the public. The ISIS video is being shown for the same reason, to help support the case for war.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @01:27AM (#142089)

    It's called a "primary source." I absolutely wouldn't trust so-called journalists to interpret the world for me. I trust them to call my attention to some things that *THEY* think is important, which, as mouthpieces of the regime, highlight what the regime thinks is important. However, I absolutely don't make the mistake that just because *THEY* think that it is important that it has the same importance for *ME*.

    Otherwise, I think it is good practice to reference primary sources, however distasteful they may be. Only mental slaves leave their interpretation of the world to others.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by zeigerpuppy on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:00AM

    by zeigerpuppy (1298) on Saturday February 07 2015, @02:00AM (#142100)

    The showing of this video is double ended propaganda. It serves the purposes of IS but doubly serves the purpose of convincing the public that further interventionalism in the middle east is justified.
    "look how brutal they are", "how could anyone do this", "let's bomb them!"
    All the while ignoring how brutal the actions of the coalition forces have been in this region. IS are using arms that were imported largely by the Americans and at various times it has served our purposes to puff up and put to war groups against one another with little regard for the consequences we now see.
    I am anti-censorship in general but this is not so much an issue of whether the video should be shown, more so an issue of why it is being shown.
    Would it be less brutal so see a man's head explode from a high velocity bullet, or a limb of a child blown off by a drone strike?
    War is a nasty business, which makes it all the more perverse to talk about retaliation. Let us not make our decisions in fear. Sometimes military action is necessary, but don't forget to mourn your enemies.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:44AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07 2015, @03:44AM (#142127)

    cos it doesn't look real in the video

    very shocking.... ly bad cgi

  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:28AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday February 07 2015, @05:28AM (#142146) Journal

    Is Fox News posting videos of Sarah Palin again! Oh, the humanity! And the Turkeys! And the fish going with the flow. And the rack! And the dust-up at the snowmobile racing champion's birthday bash. I, for one, am against giving these terrorists from Wasilla any more exposure. Shut them down! And the dog they step on!

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