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posted by n1 on Monday March 02 2015, @11:55PM   Printer-friendly
from the race-to-the-bottom dept.

The outsourcing companies involved in the Southern California Edison (SCE) scandal I wrote about last week—where U.S. workers were replaced with H-1B guestworkers—are Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services. These two India-based IT firms specialize in outsourcing and offshoring, are major publicly traded companies with a combined market value of about $115 billion, and are the top two H-1B employers in the United States. In Fiscal Year (FY) 2013, Infosys ranked first with 6,269 H-1B petitions approved by the government, and Tata ranked second with 6,193. As with the SCE scandal, these leading offshore outsourcing firms use the H-1B program to replace American workers and to facilitate the offshoring of American jobs. Because of this, it’s likely that Americans lost more than 12,000 jobs to H-1B workers in just one year. FY13 H-1B data I’ve analyzed, acquired through a Freedom of Information Act request, reveals new details about how firms like Infosys and Tata are using the H-1B non-immigrant visa program. Spoiler alert: they don’t use the H-1B visa as a way to alleviate a shortage of STEM-educated U.S. workers; they use it primarily to cut labor costs. But the other main arguments proffered to support an expansion of the H-1B program are easily debunked with even a cursory look at the H-1B data.

Related Stories

DOJ Ends Probe of SCE over IT Replacements; No Charges Filed 76 comments

Original URL: http://www.itworld.com/article/3035145/it-careers/doj-ends-probe-of-utility-over-it-replacements-no-charges-filed.html

"I wanted to pass along some good news," said Pedro Pizarro, SCE (Southern California Edison) president, in the email. "The Department of Justice's investigation into whether SCE discriminated against American workers in its IT outsourcing practices has closed with no adverse findings against the company," wrote Pizarro.

About 500 IT workers at SCE were cut, mostly through a layoff. Some of the IT workers complained of having to train foreign replacements on an H-1B visa to remain eligible for a severance package.

The cuts followed a decision by the utility to hire Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to take over some its IT work. Both firms are major users of visa workers.

The layoff of the Edison workers struck a nerve in Washington. After learning that SCE had brought in the two India-based contractors, 10 U.S. senators signed a letter last April asking several federal agencies to investigate.

[...] "It's just another betrayal by our government," said [a] former SCE IT worker, who asked that his name not be used. "The government seems to be taking an active position in allowing companies to outsource" IT jobs, this worker said.

Previous Coverage:
Southern California Edison Replacing IT Workers with H-1B Workers
New Data Shows How Companies Abuse the H-1B Program
Senators will Listen to Tech Union Members about H-1B


Original Submission

[In the mid 1980's, I recall having to train three people to replace me. That was not the only time that H1-B's were hired instead of local help at places I have worked. What will it take for things to change? What, if anything can/should be done? -Ed.]

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by MrGuy on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:08AM

    by MrGuy (1007) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:08AM (#152234)

    IANAL. However, my understanding (from having colleagues who were working on H1-B's) is that the employer sponsoring H1B workers is required to post LCA (Labor Condition Application) forms, which includes an attestation that H1B workers will be paid at or above the prevailing wage for the work performed. I thought (though I'm not sure) the wage to be paid needs to be specified. This is required to be posted where the work is to be performed, not at the employer's HQ (e.g. a Tata-employed contractor at USAcom would need to post the LCA at USAcom's headquarters). LCA's are public records (available to any member of the public for the asking).

    You can (and should) complain to the Department of Labor if you know or suspect that an employer is falsely claiming to pay the prevailing wage to the H1B employees. There are substantial fines associated with abusing this.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:49AM (#152247)

      The thing about LCA's is that most H1B have had multiple LCA's submitted at different salary rates. Once the visa is approved, the employer is free to chose the terms of any of the LCAs that where submitted. I can't say if the posted LCA has to be the one corresponding to the actual employment terms or not, but I would be completely unsurprised if that weren't one of the many loopholes in the H1B program. [cringely.com]

      You can (and should) complain to the Department of Labor if you know or suspect that an employer is falsely claiming to pay the prevailing wage to the H1B employees. There are substantial fines associated with abusing this.

      Unfortunately there is literally zero budget allocated for enforcement of H1B abuse. I can't claim to have comprehensive knowledge of such things, but in the ~20 years I've been paying attention to H1B issues I've only heard of two enforcement actions and they were both so egregious that ignoring them posed a significant risk of DoL management getting pilloried in public if they problems had been ignored.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:21AM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:21AM (#152256) Homepage

        Exactly.

        The same damn thing just happened with my employer -- I don't know if it was the H1-B catagory or something else, but a new employee who knew somebody important was fast-tracked through the ranks. He was also a Canadian citizen. The company (rather, the people the guy knew who also worked for the company) justified his sponsorship with the same old, tired, "No citizen can do this job" schtick even though the guy was just a garden-variety salesman.

        Many others in the company were pissed off about it, for a reason you will read about shortly. But they knew that complaining to the Department of Labor would accomplish nothing (or, at best, a "wait in line for 5 years while we may look into your claim") so they went to the corporate ethics committee. The division president and HR director later gave an all-hands meeting about ethics, in which both of them were chuckling about little quaint ol' things like accounting liabilities being prematurely considered revenue to pad the guy's sales.

        Moral of the story -- not a goddamn thing changed, except that 2 hours of my life were wasted in a kangaroo ethics meeting. The other moral of the story is that visas can be abused not to bring somebody in at a lower wage, but to bring in somebody you know at a ridiculously high wage, if you're well-connected.

        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:46AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:46AM (#152319) Journal

          kangaroo ethics meeting.

          I have not seen such a phrase before! Do you mind if I borrow it in the future? With proper attribution, of course.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:42PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:42PM (#152582)

          I'm finding it difficult to work up a rage over the awarding of a sweetheart deal to a friend of the boss. That is simply how business is done, especially for sales positions -- it is called "networking." Citizenship really isn't a significant factor. If even 10% of H1B visas went to over-paying under-qualified people that would be a triumph compared to the situation today.

        • (Score: 2) by kbahey on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:48PM

          by kbahey (1147) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @04:48PM (#152586) Homepage

          Why would they need an H1-B visa for a Canadian citizen?

          Citizens of Canada are eligible for TN visas [state.gov] (NAFTA free trade and all that), which has far less paperwork (and cost) than H1-B.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:21AM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:21AM (#152257)

      I've seen the postings on my own company bulletin boards (physical ones in the lunchroom). the salaries they are offering are $20k and $30k LESS than they should be.

      don't tell me they pay prevailing wage. what a load of horse shit!

      they pay low wages, but the real issue is that they overwork them, treat them like slaves and if they dare talk back, BACK TO INDIA THEY GO!

      is there any way to 'quantify' this? no, of course not! its part of the trick! you can't 'audit' that and so, only wages are the things that people talk about. that tells only a portion of the story.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:37AM

        by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:37AM (#152262)

        The point of these postings is to always make the job so amazingly specific that nobody else fits the profile, and nobody's salary can be compared. That's how you get through the process.

        I've personally only seen it done with reasonable salaries. The goal was to keep the guys we had already interned/trained, not to shortchange them. /good_bosses_happen

        • (Score: 2) by iamjacksusername on Tuesday March 03 2015, @09:50PM

          by iamjacksusername (1479) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @09:50PM (#152761)

          Spot on! Many times, for internal postings, the postings will have things like "Required certification on system X"where X is some proprietary system that only exists at that company and the only people who have been "trained" on it are in the Pune office. For some reason.

        • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday March 04 2015, @03:48PM

          by urza9814 (3954) on Wednesday March 04 2015, @03:48PM (#153083) Journal

          I'm a US Citizen working for Tata Consultancy Services mentioned in TFS. Most of the H1-B employees I work with are actually paid more than me. Every single one of them is getting paid more when they start here than I did. A lot of them even end up working directly for the client pulling six-figure salaries.

          In India, Tata doesn't recruit. People come to them. But they don't have nearly that name recognition here. The only folks in IT that I know of who have ever even *heard of* TCS are those who actually work for them. That seems to be a large reason they keep relying on H1-Bs. They could certainly be doing more, but they definitely *do* make an effort to hire US workers first. *We* are cheaper and easier for them here.

          They're generally a good company. It certainly varies a lot by client site too though and I'm pretty sure I'm at one of the better ones. I usually don't even know who works for the client and who works for TCS because we're all working side-by-side all day. Other locations the consultants won't even be allowed in the same building. But frankly...I hate my job right now (they shuffled me from dev to test and it *sucks*) but I love my employer. 66% of global profits go to charity. Most of the rest is distributed back to the employees. Managers will actually reprimand people for working unpaid overtime. I'd rather be here than working for the greedy scum that own most US companies...

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Skwearl on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:44AM

    by Skwearl (4314) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 03 2015, @12:44AM (#152244)

    Lets stop being Mr Nice guy. If you get work done with these companies, stop. If they phone your for support for your product, don't. If they want your product, refuse to sell to them.

    These companies are worth $115Billion? The American GNP is 15 trillion a year. We'll survive if we don't sell a few widgets.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by TLA on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:06AM

      by TLA (5128) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:06AM (#152253) Journal

      Maybe, but remember these are companies acting for individuals who do not give a fuck for the schmo on the floor, all they care about is shaving a few more points off their tax return and maximising their stock dividend.

      --
      Excuse me, I think I need to reboot my horse. - NCommander
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:23AM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:23AM (#152259)

      the people making the 'buy' decisions are not rational, caring human beings. they are pond scum, thinking only of the bottom line.

      you won't reach them. you won't change them or convince them.

      only when THEIR jobs are at risk will they finally understand.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:44PM (#152517)

        To be concise: M.B.A.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @01:25AM (#152261)

      Who the hell are you talking to?

      Do that as a pleb and you will be fired and replaced with one of these workers.

      The upper management could care less about this issue...in fact are almost certainly all for it.

      The government wrote these laws so they COULD be abused.

      Anyone earning money from these companies will almost certainly STFU because money talks etc

      So again, who the hell is going to listen to this great advice?!

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @05:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @05:32AM (#152337)

        "The government wrote these laws..."
        Actually these laws were written by Big Biz lawyers. The government (congress) only passed them.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @06:59PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @06:59PM (#152681)

          Semantics.

          I know what you say is true technically but when government passes something we tend to refer to them "writing" it also interchangeably.

          VERY few politicians write ANY law. In the US, very few public servants write any law as they just rubber stamp the corporate manifestos.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:34AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:34AM (#152285) Journal

    How can you abuse the H-1B program, when the program itself is an abuse?

    There is no job in the United States that can't be done, and done well, by an America citizen. The H-1B system was put in place to be used as a tool against American workers. That, along with millions of illegal aliens flooding the border, coupled with these "free trade zones" have the American work force over a barrel. And, THAT was the intent.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Covalent on Tuesday March 03 2015, @03:28AM

      by Covalent (43) on Tuesday March 03 2015, @03:28AM (#152301) Journal

      Absolutely correct. The big companies in this country despise the amount of money they have to spend on employees and their silly wages and (shudder) medical benefits. Any, and I mean ANY, way they can get out of paying people a fair wage is something they're interested in. Offshoring, outsourcing, H-1B, hiring undocumented workers, paying women less than men, "creative accounting", 2 part-timers for 1 full-timer, forced retirements, "right-to-work" union busting...the list goes on and on and on.

      The older I get, the more I realize that if a large-cap corporation thinks something is a good idea, it's a pretty safe bet the opposite is the best thing for the average American.

      --
      You can't rationally argue somebody out of a position they didn't rationally get into.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:35AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2015, @02:35AM (#152286)

    I'm pretty sure the first line of the summary should say "Institute", not "Institue"