I was alerted to two stories regarding grocery stores, data mining, and apps from Franz Dill at The Eponymous Pickle. First, Kroger acquired "customer science" company dunnhumbyUSA last week with the goal of boosting their "Customer 1st" strategy:
Continuing dunnhumbyUSA's work, [new subsidiary] 84.51° mines mountains of customer transactions via Kroger's loyalty card program to figure out what shoppers want.
84.51° helps Kroger to thoughtfully evaluate what products to stock, expand or discontinue. The firm's insights are also used to send coupons relevant to shoppers' habits, such as issuing pet food offers to customers who actually buy pet food.
Aitken says noted 95 percent of Kroger's growth in the last decade has come from winning more business from existing customers – which is a smarter, most cost-effective way to do business. He notes too many industries – from mobile carriers to cable TV providers – chase after new customers with one-time incentives that ultimately encourage switching, not customer loyalty.
Also, Winn-Dixie is releasing a mobile app that features:
..."personalized" digital coupons, all stored on your smartphone or other electronic device. Winn-Dixie, a subsidiary of Bi-Lo Holdings, partnered with Coupons.com for this new savings system, which sends you cyber coupons based on your own shopping preferences.
The Winn-Dixie app also features a virtual shopping list and fuelperks rewards.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @08:14AM
<sarcasm>What shocking news!</sarcasm>Seriously, do there really still exist people who don't get that the whole purpose of customer card systems is to collect data about the customers?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @08:37AM
It should be illegal, really. Poor people need food, and huge stores offering 'discounts' to people who allow their privacy to be violated is hardly voluntary.
(Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Monday May 04 2015, @04:27PM
> It should be illegal, really.
Making any form of corporate data collection illegal is rare. And I'm not even talking about lobbyists pushing against it. I'm talking about the fact that the government likes having data it can subpoena when it needs it. Why pay for surveillance when you can get a free ride from someone else doing the same thing?
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday May 04 2015, @09:16PM
Furthermore, making it illegal would be counter productive.
If you buy at a store, you probably would be interested in having those things you buy in stock the next time you visit. If the store can look to purchases and notice larger numbers of product X being bought every friday afternoon, they can make sure there is more there on friday than any other day.
I've gotten notifications from Krogers and Costco about food recalls on purchases I've made. They never send me any other spam, so I'm fine.
If you open a loyalty card with a business you do it for the benefits. Making it illegal would just stupid.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by http on Tuesday May 05 2015, @04:06AM
No store needs to ID you to know their inventory.
I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 05 2015, @04:23PM
Not to mention that pesky laws and constitutions can prevent government from being able to do surveillance in the first place, yet no such protections for the public exist against corporations. Yet another way capitalism subverts democracy.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by GungnirSniper on Monday May 04 2015, @04:52PM
How is this any worse from a local mom-n-pop shop that knows its customers, what they like and don't like, and if they have a pet at home? Just because it is computerized doesn't make knowing your customers bad. The business gets to make more money by being more responsive to its customers needs and wants. How is that so wrong as to be illegal?
In New England the cheapest supermarket, Market Basket, does not do a loyalty program nor even have a website. I've heard their average weekly per-store sales are a million dollars. The stores are almost always packed.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by fliptop on Monday May 04 2015, @05:58PM
This. I was hoping those who'd prefer to shop at "save-n-pack" type places would chime in whether something like this would be worth the convenience. Place an order on your cell phone, p/u the order later in the day (that's where all this is headed). Coupons automatically included. Swipe your phone to pay and the bag boy pushes a cart out to your waiting vehicle, no need to even get out. Delivery available if you can't get to the store. Hell they could probably work in a "delivery perks" program like they do w/ fuel.
I spend about $70-$100/week at various grocery stores. This includes items like paper towels and dog food too. I buy produce, fish and cheese where it's freshest, other stuff I p/u where it's cheapest. None of these places are Kroger. The only things I buy there are stuff I can't get at the local "pack-n-save," like cashew butter and canned artichokes. I'd have to do a comparison shop at Kroger but if the extra I'll have to pay is less than a couple hours of my time, it might be worth it (in dollars, but I'd also sacrifice food freshness/quality).
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday May 04 2015, @09:27PM
Don't bet on having to sacrifice either quality or freshness to shop at a bigger store.
Small stores that cater to low income don't stock the best quality.
Big chains have programs and staff to watch expiration dates closely. Small chains often don't.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by fliptop on Tuesday May 05 2015, @01:52AM
Not true where I shop, the local produce store always has fresh everything, including sprigs. Local if it's in season, too. They have a $1 table in the front that has stuff that's about to go bad, maybe 2 days if you're lucky. The Pack-n-Save has a butcher shop in it (well, everything except chicken). Every morning they rewrap meat from the day before and set it out, sometimes for as low as 1/2 price.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @11:44PM
>> In New England the cheapest supermarket, Market Basket, does not do a loyalty program nor even have a website.
>
> This. I was hoping those who'd prefer to shop at "save-n-pack" type places would chime in
Market Basket is nothing like that. They are on the same level as the best of Albertsons, etc. One step down from Wholefoods. In some ways they are better than wholefoods, like their sushi is the best super-market sushi I've ever had, better than many actual sushi bars. And I've lived in LA as well as Boston.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday May 05 2015, @02:06PM
Stop 'n Shop in the New England area already does exactly that. Place an order from your smartphone, pick it up at the store, or have it delivered to your home. I dunno the details though because I've never used either. But a friend of mine used to use the delivery thing occasionally. Apparently it kinda sucks for produce -- the employees picking it don't usually care of course, so you'll often end up with the ones left sitting around at the bottom of the bin that nobody else wanted. I don't think they do it intentionally, but it certainly could be used as a way to unload crap that was about to expire or bruised and disfigured or whatever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @11:50PM
> How is this any worse from a local mom-n-pop shop that knows its customers,
Because mom-and-pop stores don't out-source that to a company which resells to everybody, including facebook. [eff.org]
This is the way it is with all databases. What was once a private interaction between the customer and the seller on the other side of the counter is now semi-public information made available to anyone with a dollar and ulterior motives.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday May 18 2015, @11:52PM
How is this any worse from a local mom-n-pop shop that knows its customers, what they like and don't like, and if they have a pet at home?
Scale. Human memory isn't perfect. All of the data goes to a central location which can be sold to multiple other companies. And, of course, the government can get all the data easily, about many, many more people.
If you needed to ask this question, you didn't think it through.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 04 2015, @08:28AM
Which idiots have failed to understand that the whole purpose of a "customer loyalty card" is to mine all the data possible from every transaction?
YOU ARE THE PRODUCT! Maybe some of you have heard those words before?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @08:36AM
same as your signed in post here.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 04 2015, @08:49AM
SN doesn't know my mailing address, my phsical location, my phone number, doesn't have access to my cell phone - nothing. SN might guess a lot of things about me, but they can't know for certain much of anything. SN has no idea what my dietary habits are, or my hygenic practices. SN can't possibly know how much gasoline I burn in a month's time, or whether I pay my bills on time.
Signing up for loyalty rewards allows the grocer access to damned near everything there is about me. He already has my banking information. Couple that with my voluntary disclosure of my physical address, and access to my cell phone, the grocer can do all but read my mind. If my grocer's son were the creepy sort with a few hacking skills, he might know me more intimately than my wife does.
You probably need to rethink your position on this issue - you don't seem to have any clues here.
(Score: 2) by wantkitteh on Monday May 04 2015, @09:24AM
Don't forget sending that information to your payment card providers in return to access to the rest of the database. That and following your phone wifi's MAC address as you wander around the street between cloud access points. A smart, switched on store might start sending you offers by SMS if you walk past one of their stores. Who needs beacons?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @01:15PM
SN doesn't know my mailing address, my phsical location, my phone number, doesn't have access to my cell phone - nothing. SN might guess a lot of things about me, but they can't know for certain much of anything. SN has no idea what my dietary habits are, or my hygenic practices. SN can't possibly know how much gasoline I burn in a month's time, or whether I pay my bills on time.
A few things:
(1) I'm confident that SN is not data-mining us. Management has been pretty extreme about not participating in such schemes.
(2) SN is nearly unique in that regard.
(3) Data mining does not work with absolute certainty. It doesn't need to know those things with 100% accuracy. All that matters are high-confidence inferences. And much of those things can be inferred with high confidence for most people. You personally might have taken extreme countermeasures, like using Tor to mask your IP address, blocking cookies, blocking cross-site includes to trackers, paying cash for everything, never purchasing anything online, keeping your phone in airplane mode unless you are making a phone call, renting from a private landlord instead of a corporation, registering your vehicle in someone else's name, using a private mailbox for driver's license, etc.
But all that would make you the outlier and drawing conclusions based on outliers is a way to guarantee that you get it wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @10:11AM
"Do you have a loyalty card?"
No.
"Do you want a loyalty card?"
No.
"Whatever, here's your total."
Thanks, I will shop again!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @12:08PM
Kroger forces the loyalty card by having two prices - one without ($5 for ice cream) wnd one with ($3.50 for same ice cream). Or Milk, Eggs ....
But the loyalty card does nothing to help them get the right products to the shelves. Like fresh vegetables - Mejeirs in our area has fresh vegetables locked. Kroger just keeps raising prices and shrinking offering. Even in the brand new super store they built, now been removing the clothing and other sections.
Mining only shows the past. The past is no the future. Just like the daily junk mail and ads that pop up on the internet. I lookd at hard drive last week, so this week they show more hard drives. Not at much lower prices, not at better quality, not at better size or speed. Those may get me to buy, it is the same junk that I saw and deside that it was not worth it because...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @01:21PM
Kroger forces the loyalty card by having two prices - one without ($5 for ice cream) wnd one with ($3.50 for same ice cream).
The only winning move is not to play: The Discount Grocery Cards That Don't Save You Money [wsj.com]
My experience in the Boston area is that Market Basket has the best customer service, the best prices and great selection. They don't have cards and are very profitable (for a grocery). [bizjournals.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Monday May 04 2015, @02:48PM
I've thought for a while that a card trading app would be a great thing. I don't really have the chops to do it though, so for anyone who does, I'd like to be customer #1. Here's how it would work:
Users would upload a card to the system -- each user must upload at least one card, at least early on. You walk into StoreX, open up the app, request a loyalty card, one is randomly assigned to you and then locked for 5 minutes or until you release it to prevent duplicate usage in disparate locations at the exact same time, you buy your stuff, release the card.
You could make it GPS enabled to select a card base on position, but I'd want the not GPS enabled version as that whole location tracking thing is anti-privacy. No ads. Either make it free, or make it for pay, but fuck the ads. No permissions other than network connection.
There is no way to make these systems go away except to mung the data. In fact, poisoned data is probably worse than no data.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @03:00PM
> There is no way to make these systems go away except to mung the data.
Well you could go all rube goldberg on it...
Or you could just shop elsewhere and save money in the process. [wsj.com]
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday May 04 2015, @03:56PM
That only works if there is an elsewhere without a loyalty card. Doesn't exist in my area.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @04:03PM
Where do you live?
Must be a tiny little town.
In the US, most of those places have a super-walmart.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday May 04 2015, @04:08PM
We do have a walmart. I won't shop there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @11:31PM
> We do have a walmart. I won't shop there.
I'll take a walmart over loyalty-card grocery every day.
In fact I often do.
Towns like that also tend to have farmers markets / roadside stands.
Depending on the area of the country you might also have ALDI and Save-A-Lot.
Target might be an option too, but they are kind of in between because they have a credit card that is 5% off on all purchases. It isn't the same thing as weekly "sales" on specific items though.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday May 13 2015, @07:09PM
Only works if the loyalty card uses a magnet strip? Otoh, perhaps RFID can be emulated too?
But chip cards requires a bit of effort..
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Monday May 04 2015, @11:11AM
Don't stores already know "what products to stock, expand or discontinue" from their inventory? They know what sells and what doesn't. Do they need to spend money on a third-party consultant to tell them this stuff?
I've got a little theory I'm working on. How do you know if something is stupid? Look at Wal-Mart and see if they are doing it. If Wal-Mart is not wasting their time and money on "virtual shopping lists", loyalty cards, dumb consultants, and so on, then it's stupid. If you are a store trying to compete with Wal-Mart, and you do stupid stuff, you're going to be roadkill. Wal-Mart doesn't need all this dumb stuff to get people to come to their stores. I just went to a new grocery store, where paper towels cost over $1 more than at Wal-Mart. Hint to new store: Dump the consultants and other stuff, and match Wal-Mart's prices.
Hey, I just got a virtual coupon for pizza rolls in my inbox!
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday May 04 2015, @11:34AM
Walmart is the cheapest source of minimal quality stuff out there. They don't need any gimmick beyond that. Something more advanced could help any store operating about the most minimal quality threshold. Another way to put it, is the primary use for loyalty cards is to create a customer list, and if you're walmart sized you just assume a census extract equivalent will do, and the 2% or whatever of the general population who refuse to shop at walmart can just get spammed anyway, so just spam the entire phone book.
The way to match walmarts prices is to make the rolls 10% narrower and 50% shorter and then cut prices 5% so the dumb poor people think they're saving money. Walmart doesn't "save" money any other way for something like a decade now. And for the non-consumables drop the product lifetime by value engineering to maybe a tenth the original and drop the price 50% and the fools will have to buy ten of them to match the lifespan of a real product yielding five times the revenue. I'm not rich enough to shop at walmart.
From memory of my food store retail days a long time ago, 25 years ago we had 286 class PCs hooked up to the registers to document every sale. I don't think technology has declined much since then. An infinity of data was cheaply easily available.
Coupons suck. They're a hangover from WWII rationing books and hold little appeal beyond the obvious financial to any younger group. Hopefully that whole aspect of the market will go away and lower prices a little as the population ages that generation out. Its all a bunch of meaningless expensive paper shuffling.
What isn't understood in the summary, is you make a list of consumer sellers and organize it by non-commission and commission and the churn mostly happens with the commissioned sales people because of new customer bonus payments. Follow the money.
(Score: 2) by bziman on Monday May 04 2015, @01:14PM
That's funny, since I can get the same exact brands at WalMart that I do at Kroger... they are just less expensive. And the produce at WalMart is actually surprisingly high quality, though not up to the local farm stands. Kroger does make me crazy though, by having commercials announced over the PA system every five minutes, and by printing out a meter of coupons at check out that I refuse to leave the store with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @01:38PM
> Kroger does make me crazy though
The Albertsons nearest me just closed. I hated going in there because every checkout line had a TV blasting commercials at you as you waited. Good fucking riddance.
Sprouts opened up one block away and that place is sooo much nicer. No loyalty cards either.
(Score: 2) by bziman on Tuesday May 05 2015, @03:04AM
Yeah Sprouts is great, but they just don't have the selection of the larger stores and can't compete with Trader Joe's on price. They are, however, much better than Whole Foods.
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Monday May 04 2015, @09:58PM
The funny thing is, Trader Joe's has a similar method of operation. They have no coupons, no loyalty cards, no advertising, nor any other similar bullshit. The weird thing is, they are usually cheaper than competing grocery store chains, at least in the DC area.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @11:39PM
The top and the bottom of the market are free of them.
I suspect it is for the same reason, but viewed through two different lenses.
ALDI and Save-A-Lot dont not have loyalty cards because the poor, especially illegal immigrants, are distrustful of tracking.
Wholefoods and Sprouts don't have loyalty cards because it is gauche. I'd put TJs in this category.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04 2015, @01:24PM
> Wal-Mart doesn't need all this dumb stuff to get people to come to their stores.
Maybe they do. [thekrazycouponlady.com]
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday May 04 2015, @04:42PM
Look at Wal-Mart and see if they are doing it
That's great if you want to compete with walmart on walmart's terms.
However you can't just be exactly like walmart but more expensive, because that's not going to get customers.
And odds are you can't win the "be slightly cheaper than walmart" unless you are ALREADY at least the size of walmart.
So that leaves finding a business model that isn't based on "see if walmart is doing it".
Although I do agree with you that most gimmicks are stupid.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Monday May 04 2015, @01:24PM
vons (Kroegers) got me with $5 fridays. They have a handful of items for $5 on friday only. About every other week they have a great deal on something I want so I stock up. Case in point? Lamb chops, normally $10-$11/lb, were $5/lb. I bought all they had, I still enjoy lamb chops once a week.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Monday May 04 2015, @01:26PM
I should add I've been a Von's customer for some 6 years now because they meet the sweet spot of price and convenience. Before I moved here I spent 20 years shopping at Ralph's for the same reason.
What $5 fridays did was make me move my shopping from Mon/Tue to Friday.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.