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posted by CoolHand on Wednesday May 13 2015, @08:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the more-more-more dept.

Forget octo-core big.LITTLE. What your next smartphone needs is a tri-cluster deca-core System-on-a-Chip (SoC) from MediaTek:

Right off the bat, MediaTek manages to raise eyebrows with what is the first 10 core System-on-a-Chip design. The 10 processor cores are arranged in a tri-cluster orientation, which is a new facet against a myriad of dual-cluster big.LITTLE heterogeneous CPU designs. The three clusters consist of a low power quad-core A53 cluster clocked at 1.4 GHz, a power/performance balanced quad-core A53 cluster at 2.0GHz, and an extreme performance dual-core A72 cluster clocked in at 2.5GHz. To achieve this tri-cluster design, MediaTek choose to employ a custom interconnect IP called the MediaTek Coherent System Interconnect (MCSI).

Contrary to what MediaTek presents as an "introduction of a Mid cluster", I like to see MediaTek's tri-cluster approach as an extension to the existing dual A53 cluster designs - where the added A72 cluster is truly optimized for only the highest frequencies. Indeed, we are told that the A72 cluster can reach up to 2.5GHz on a TSMC 20nm process. ARM aims similar clocks for the A72 but at only 14/16nm FinFET processes, so to see MediaTek go this high on 20nm is impressive, even if it's only a two-core cluster. It will be interesting to see how MediaTek chooses the lower frequency limits on each cluster, especially the A72 CPUs, or how these options will be presented to OEMs.

The [Helio] X20 samples in H2 2015 and devices with it are planned to be shipping in Q1 2016.

Related Stories

MediaTek Dimensity 1000 SoC Supports 5G Speeds, 16 GB RAM, and AV1 Video Decoding 13 comments

MediaTek Dimensity 1000 octa-core SoC promises 5G for the masses when it launches in 2020

The 5G SoC will support 90 Hz QHD displays, up to 16 GB of quad-channel LPDDR4x RAM, Wi-Fi 6, Bluetooth 5.1, hexa-core AI processor, download/upload speeds of up to 4.7/2.5 Gbps, and more with the promise of faster performance than the current Qualcomm Snapdragon 855.

While a handful of 5G smartphones are already available today, they are all prohibitively expensive. The Samsung Galaxy S10 5G, for example, currently retails for $1300 unlocked. MediaTek hopes to be the catalyst for 5G adoption next year by launching an all-in-one SoC solution that integrates an octa-core CPU, octa-core Mali-G77 MC9 GPU, hexa-core AI APU, and a 5G modem for more affordable smartphones.

Called the Dimensity 1000, the SoC will be the first in a series of SoCs with integrated support for 2G, 3G, 4G, and sub-6 GHz 5G networks. MediaTek is also claiming it to be the world's first SoC to support 5G dual-SIM for better worldwide appeal and versatility. While single-SIM smartphones are still prevalent in the U.S., most smartphones overseas tend to carry two SIM slots.

MediaTek's presentation shows that the SoC will support AOMedia Video 1 (AV1) hardware decoding at up to 4K60:

In addition to hardware video encoding and decoding at 4K 60FPS, the MediaTek Dimensity 1000 is the world's 1st mobile SoC with AV1 format support.

Also at AnandTech.

Related: MediaTek Announces 10-Core SoC for Phones and Tablets
MediaTek Helio X30: 10 Cores on a 10nm Process
Qualcomm's Snapdragon 855 SoC Will Optionally Enable 5G Connections with Added X50 Modem
Realtek RTD2983 SoC for 8K TVs: Supports AV1 Codec
Huawei: ARM Cortex-A77 Cores Would Shorten Battery Life (Dimensity 1000 includes 4x Arm Cortex-A77 cores)


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  • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Wednesday May 13 2015, @08:52AM

    by TheRaven (270) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @08:52AM (#182294) Journal
    What configurations can be powered at the same time? The early Samsung A7/A15 big.LITTLE configurations messed up the cache coherency, so you could only run the 4 A7s or the 4 A15s, but the later ones allowed you to mix and match (e.g. 2 A7s and one A15), as long as you kept within the power / heat envelope. Of course, this is a bit of a nightmare (I mean, interesting research problem) for the scheduler, which has to decide which mix of heterogeneous cores makes sense for a particular mix of threads.
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  • (Score: 2) by mtrycz on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:18AM

    by mtrycz (60) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:18AM (#182303)

    I need my phone to make phonecalls, open a browser and draw a map. I'm not really sure what this is for.

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    • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:30AM

      by RamiK (1813) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:30AM (#182306)

      To concurrently preform all the above with minimal power draw.

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    • (Score: 1) by anti-NAT on Wednesday May 13 2015, @02:04PM

      by anti-NAT (4232) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @02:04PM (#182374)

      Not for you.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by archshade on Wednesday May 13 2015, @03:31PM

      by archshade (3664) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @03:31PM (#182422)

      Although I don't see much need for a phone with such power I can imagine a phone sized device where this would be useful

      What I am thinking of is a simple small "compute block". This device has a single physical power and high speed interconnect (think multi lane TB). Inside the block there is a small battery, Wirless Radios (Cell, WiFi, BT, GPS, etc), Non-volatile storage (e.g. 32GiB NAND-Flash), RAM, CPU and GPU.

      The "compute block" will not have a screen, input method of any kind (except the wireless and HS interconnect above)

      The device will be smaller than a phone and be capable of providing the grunt for most peoples day to day computing need. The compute block can then be put in a chassis to turn it into a usable device. A phone chassis would be no more than a touch screen (with maybe an extra battery, USB connectivity etc). A laptop chassis would similarly be a larger screen, Keyboard, HDD, USB Host, big battery maybe some additional cooling for the block etc.

      The OS and other software would be saved on the compute blocks flash, other files could be saved on the block, a chassis, removable media or network storage. The block would also store profiles for each chassis and chassis type (a default could be stored on the chassis). This way you could only carry your phone around with you, but if you need to use a desktop you just insert your block into a friends chassis and get access though that.

      Things like UI and preference would be defined by the chassis profile and so you don't have to struggle with a tablet touch UI on a netbook (looking at android netbooks here). Chassis would have their storage (and possible other resources) encrypted with keys on the block so you would not be able to view all the files when using someone else's chassis.

      So I have come up with a single use case where a fast processor could be useful in a phone sized device. Obviously this would never take off for workstations (unless they contained an alternative co-processor for real number crunching. But then your basically just booting off a flash drive so no real benefit.

      • (Score: 2) by mtrycz on Wednesday May 13 2015, @04:57PM

        by mtrycz (60) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @04:57PM (#182466)

        A serious answer! I dig it. Thank you, sir.

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      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:33PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:33PM (#182528) Journal

        This would be great. If certain quantum/optical coprocessors can't be easily miniaturized to fit on a SoC, they can go in the workstation tower. Just don't lose your smartphone (portable surveillance workstation).

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:25AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2015, @10:25AM (#182305)

    They're not releasing the modified Linux source code and even relicensing it, both in direct violation of the license. That's something everybody must take into account when dealing with them. And by distributing their code you too will be in violation. And of course it makes little sense to support somebody who's pissing in the common pool.

  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2015, @11:15AM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 13 2015, @11:15AM (#182315) Journal
    With so much grunt, how long does it take to drain the juice from... say... a Tesla-motors battery?
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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday May 13 2015, @11:16AM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Wednesday May 13 2015, @11:16AM (#182317) Journal

    As mobile goes past "good enough" to insanely overpowered they'll throw more and more cores as a selling point....cores which will either be turned off most of the time to save power or be twiddling their thumbs waiting for useful work. And just like the PC more and more will simply keep what they have until it breaks, just as I have office buildings full of Phenom Is I'm seeing more Galaxy IIs and iPhone 4s because "if it ain't broke"

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    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:19PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:19PM (#182513) Journal

      I'm seeing more Galaxy IIs and iPhone 4s because "if it ain't broke"

      Until the user of the iPhone is tricked into "upgrade" to iOS 7 or dito Android trap.. Making the phone slow as syrup..

      Otoh, these overpowered phones will be nice when the hipsters throw them away such that geeks can add them to computing clusters or as a I/O controller. Provided that they can be installed with a real OS.

      • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday May 13 2015, @09:05PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Wednesday May 13 2015, @09:05PM (#182628) Journal

        Then they'll take it to the little phone shop down the street which offers "downgrades" and pretty much any other repair service, just as we PC shops offer the same for your laptop or desktop.

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    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2015, @08:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2015, @08:49PM (#182613)

      This is actually a pretty natural next step in solving the dark silicon [wikipedia.org] problem: you can't use all of the transistors on your processor at the same time, so you optimize different sections of it for different workloads and switch which section you power up based on the current workload. Currently we're only seeing processors specialized for different amounts of load on the system, but expect to see an increasing number of specialized/semi-specialized cores in the future.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday May 13 2015, @01:17PM

    by LoRdTAW (3755) on Wednesday May 13 2015, @01:17PM (#182349) Journal

    I don't get big.little. To me it seems that those cores are pretty wasteful. I think this is more about marketing than anything else.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:29PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday May 13 2015, @06:29PM (#182523) Journal

      The point is to lower power consumption. The scheduler decides which cores to use in real time. If you are playing a game or something, the "big" cluster is used. If you don't need fast computation, the "LITTLE" cluster is used. Except these SoCs can use any combination of cores from the clusters at the same time.

      By adding a "medium"/"mid" cluster, MediaTek claims up to 30% power reduction [bestofmicro.com] over the 8-core chips. They even have an automobile analogy [bestofmicro.com]. They can add another 2 cores because the SoCs are already very small.

      How many threads are running on your system right now? This technology could be transferred to desktops if anybody cared about power consumption.

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