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posted by n1 on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:20PM   Printer-friendly
from the RTFA dept.

When we hear the word "multiculturalism," some imagine people of all races and creeds holding hands, others imagine a clash of disparate cultures that cannot co-exist. There are many more nuanced definitions in between.

In the world of mainstream politics, there is now widespread acknowledgment that the failure of immigrants to properly integrate into the culture of their host nations is causing a lot more harm that good. The backlash against multiculturalism has begun to manifest itself as a rise of nationalist parties such as England's UKIP and France's National Front gaining more support from disillusioned countrymen.

In 2010 German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that,

" This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, west of Berlin, yesterday. "

Merkel also suggested that the onus was on immigrants to do more to integrate into German society, and late last year the European Court of Justice ruled that EU citizens who move to another member state "solely in order to obtain social assistance" may be excluded from receiving that assistance, an acknowledgement that multiculturalism's side effects are causing more harm than good.

Those interested in this topic should read Foreign Affairs' excellent article The Failure of Multiculturalism.

As a political tool, multiculturalism has functioned as not merely a response to diversity but also a means of constraining it. And that insight reveals a paradox. Multicultural policies accept as a given that societies are diverse, yet they implicitly assume that such diversity ends at the edges of minority communities. They seek to institutionalize diversity by putting people into ethnic and cultural boxes—into a singular, homogeneous Muslim community, for example—and defining their needs and rights accordingly. Such policies, in other words, have helped create the very divisions they were meant to manage.

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:31PM

    by opinionated_science (4031) on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:31PM (#187186)

    Race is a human construct, not supported by the biology. Please continue...

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:40PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:40PM (#187207) Journal

      WTF does "race" have to do with this discussion? The subject matter is "multiculturalism". Maybe you have failed to understand that US and Australian white people came from very much the same "race", but they have developed vastly different cultures?

      Grab a dictionary, and try to follow along on these big words. Some of us actually expect participants on a nerd site to understand the odd sixteen-letter word now and then.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by aristarchus on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:02PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:02PM (#187223) Journal

        Modified:

        Culture is a human construct, not supported by the biology. Please continue...

        FTFY
        Please continue, racists. (Submitted by Eth? How could it not be?)

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM (#187229)

        Right in TFS:

        When we hear the word "multiculturalism," some imagine people of all races and creeds holding hands

        Learn to read, smartass.

      • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:23PM

        by Whoever (4524) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:23PM (#187246) Journal

        Sorry, I down-modded you by mistake. There doesn't seem to be any way to undo this.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:44PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:44PM (#187265) Journal

          No problem - I'm often curious about who mods, and why. But, stuff happens. I've clicked the wrong thingy often enough since these new-fangled computers came along!

      • (Score: 5, Touché) by ilPapa on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:24PM

        by ilPapa (2366) on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:24PM (#187330) Journal

        Maybe you have failed to understand that US and Australian white people came from very much the same "race", but they have developed vastly different cultures?

        "Vastly different" in the sense that Americans love cars and beer and surfing and football and Australians love beer and cars and football and surfing.

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:36PM (#188220)

          US football and Australian football are vastly different you insensitive clod! lol

      • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:17PM

        by opinionated_science (4031) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:17PM (#187347)

        It was casually mentioned in the first sentence, hence my comment.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday May 25 2015, @12:45PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday May 25 2015, @12:45PM (#187587) Homepage Journal

        The trouble is that unlike when I was young, being a nerd has become cool. When I was in high school, "nerd" was an insult, now it's a compliment. This has a lot of people who just don't have the intelligence and curiosity to be a nerd thinking they are one.

        OTOH maybe he just needs more coffee...

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:10PM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:10PM (#187231) Journal

      Sigh....let me point out this teeny tiny fact,mmmkay? RACE is different colors, be it white black green WTF ever, and CULTURE is an identity that a group, whatever color they may or may not be, has CHOSEN to assume.

      For an example of why culture can be a bad thing? Just look at the ample evidence that the current culture of the American black, which glorifies violence and gangs, drugs, abusing women and abandoning children, while condemning those that actually try to get an education or better themselves as "cooning" and "acting white" has become so toxic that the #1 cause of death among young black males? **-OTHER BLACK MALES. [huffingtonpost.com] That's a rate 6 times higher than white males of the same age bracket BTW, which should be a good indicator of the difference between a culture that glorifies the image of the violent thug and one that does not. When black men like David Carroll and Tommy Sotomayor point out the insanity going on in the black community (as Mr Sotomayor put it "black boys are being raised without fathers, without rules, and are killing each other for nothing but dumb shit") they are attacked as an "Uncle Tom", Sotomayor got death threats to the point he carries a gun, and for what? Pointing out that a culture that "only respects you if you are hard" and glorifies "thug life" is destroying them?

      So I hope you can now tell the difference between RACE and CULTURE, because there is a pretty big difference.

      **- BTW don't you just loooove how they try to make excuses, like "its because they are poor" while ignoring the fact that the poorest place in America is white which is the VA coal mining region and despite have very lax gun laws compared to places like DC and Chicago their homicide rate is extremely low? Its not poverty, not race, that is killing the black community, its a culture that practically worships violent behavior while constantly preaching a permanent victimhood political narrative. This is why in every video where he sees a sign being held up saying "black lives matter" Mr Sotomayor says "only when that life is taken by a white person, otherwise it isn't worth anything".

      --
      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:26PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:26PM (#187252) Journal

        Oh my, Hairy. You've stepped in it now. No one EVER wins one of these arguments when they point out obvious truths. Stand by to be blasted from all sides!

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:05PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:05PM (#187283)

          > Stand by to be blasted from all sides!

          And you've hit on the most obvious truth of the post...
          All hairy wants is to be the center of a bukake circle.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:28PM

          by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:28PM (#187300) Journal

          Let 'em. I am a socialist leftie from the 70s, when we actually believed in judging people by the content of their character and not by some Oppression Olympics [wikia.com]. We believed in actually looking at problems and trying to SOLVE those problems, not make excuses. this is why I have to LMAO at those that claim they are championing "justice" for minorities as their group has become so hate filled and fucking racist there is actually a game called SJW or Stormfront [youtube.com] because their writings are so filled with venom its hard to tell the difference between their posts and those from white supremacist websites.

          We've been pretending the culture isn't an issue for damned near 40 years...has things gotten any better? Has the violence gone down? Number of children raised without fathers gone down? When you have Jessie Jackson saying he's more afraid of running into black teens than whites at night? [theracecardproject.com] I'm sorry but your culture is fucked up!

          --
          ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
          • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:01PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:01PM (#187322)

            > We've been pretending the culture isn't an issue for damned near 40 years...has things gotten any better? Has the violence gone down?

            Yes. Dramatically. A nearly two-thirds reduction. [wikipedia.org] Today's black violent crime rate is even one third less than the white violent crime rate of the 70s.

            Will that change your mind about anything? I'm guessing, no it won't. I bet you just keep right on believing that black people are just as violent as ever. You'll ignore this inconvenient fact and stick to your imaginary world. That is the definition of bigotry, after all -- an obstinate or intolerant devotion to his or her own opinions and prejudices; [merriam-webster.com]

            • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday May 25 2015, @12:41AM

              by Nerdfest (80) on Monday May 25 2015, @12:41AM (#187430)

              You may want to take unleaded fuel into that equation as well though.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:42AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:42AM (#187503)

              I bet you just keep right on believing that black people are just as violent as ever

              It's kind of beside the point, isn't it? So long as they remain several times more likely to be violent criminals than anyone else you should happen to run into, keeping them away from your home and family makes sense.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @09:12AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @09:12AM (#187560)

                So long as they remain several times more likely to be violent criminals than anyone else you should happen to run into, keeping them away from your home and family makes sense.

                You're talking about Texans, here?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:47PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:47PM (#188225)

                  unfortunately, Texans aren't as easily ferreted out with a quick glance. if we could just cure the white skin pigment disease then the world would be nothing but kittens, puppies, and daffodils.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:46AM (#187544)

          {Secret ComaPodensis task force directive} Mod this and the parent up! Hairyfeet is a valued member of the team!

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:46PM (#187270)

        while condemning those that actually try to get an education or better themselves as "cooning" and "acting white" has become so toxic that the #1 cause of death among young black males? **-OTHER BLACK MALES.

        Wow. I guess I need to get around on the net more because that's the first time I've seen someone blame black-on-black violence on "acting white."
        Which itself is a total myth. [vox.com]

        BTW don't you just loooove how they try to make excuses, like "its because they are poor" while ignoring the fact that the poorest place in America is white which is the VA coal mining region

        Where population density is some of the lowest in the country? [arc.gov]
        Yeah, life is complex but bigots only see what they want to see.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by frojack on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:12PM

        by frojack (1554) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:12PM (#187289) Journal

        Well said, this is the as one well written black author called it, The Inconvenient Truth about Ghetto Communities’ Social Breakdown [nationalreview.com]

        You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:36PM (#187307)

          Holy crap is that article myopic and worded in a way to obscure rather than reveal truth.

          For example he says, "Murder rates among black males were going down — repeat, down — during the much-lamented 1950s, while it went up after the much celebrated 1960s." Yet violent crime in general among blacks has been trending downwards since at least 1973 [wikipedia.org] (as far back as I could find data). Where they no longer "exempted" from the requirements of civilization in the 70s? Or is only that murderers get a special exemption?

          That guy seems like he's pushing an agenda rather than trying to inform.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Reziac on Monday May 25 2015, @04:33AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Monday May 25 2015, @04:33AM (#187516) Homepage

            Crime has gone down for everyone in America. Naturally that includes blacks in the gangsta culture. But their crime rate is still higher than for people (of any race) afflicted with less self-destructive cultures.

            But are you aware that Dr.Sowell is black?

            And that he's been studying and writing about this stuff for decades?

            If he has an agenda, it's getting his fellow blacks to pull their heads out of their victim-mentality asses and see what they're doing to themselves.

            http://tsowell.com/ [tsowell.com]
            in particular, see
            http://tsowell.com/cv.html [tsowell.com]
            and
            http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell1.asp [jewishworldreview.com]

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @04:41AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @04:41AM (#187518)

              > But are you aware that Dr.Sowell is black?

              Yes, so what. Are you implying some sort of tokenism?

              > And that he's been studying and writing about this stuff for decades?

              Well, all I know is he lied with statistics on the first time I ever met him. So that is a hell of a bad first impression.

              > If he has an agenda, it's getting his fellow blacks to pull their heads out of their victim-mentality asses and see what they're doing to themselves.

              What people say their agenda is and what they actually do aren't necessarily the same thing. I am sure he believes he's doing that. Some people think deliberately lying is a useful tool to accomplish their goals. It only works when they don't get caught...

              • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Monday May 25 2015, @08:07AM

                by aristarchus (2645) on Monday May 25 2015, @08:07AM (#187546) Journal

                > But are you aware that Dr.Sowell is black?

                Are you aware that he is a total Wacko Conservative Republican shill, and totally not a reliable source on anything? If I were the FBI, I would probable plant rumours that he actually plagiarized his doctorate, because, how could a Black person get a PhD without cheating? (On the racist assumptions that are rife in this thread.) Same goes for the rest of them, Clarence ("No Questions")Thomas, Ben ("Brain surgeon without a brain") Carson. Not to mention the completely insane Republican Black person, ___-_______ fill-in-the-blank. You know you can! Allen West? War criminal and crazy person. Herman Cain? Extra cheesy! Alan Keyes, totally wacko, and his daughter too! Wikipedia has a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_Republicans [wikipedia.org] of African American Republicans, but it covers from the end of the Civil war and not just after Nixon's Southern Strategy make it so lucrative to be a Black Republican, like Condaleeza Rice!

                So again, we should listen to Sowell just because of his skin color? That's racist! And a version of the Cretan Paradox: St Paul said, "All Cretans are liars, and it is true because even one of them said so!" Oh, dear, I fear that once again I need to explain this for our conservative members, so they will be able to understand. You see, if the Cretan was telling the truth, all Cretans are liars, including him. So that means that what he was saying (all Cretans being liars) is necessarily false. But that means, if it is false that all Cretans are liars, that he could be telling the truth, so that all Cretans are liars, including him, and we go round once again. Sowell is a Cretan.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by ilPapa on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:28PM

        by ilPapa (2366) on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:28PM (#187333) Journal

        ? Just look at the ample evidence that the current culture of the American black, which glorifies violence and gangs

        http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/21/us/texas-biker-shooting/ [cnn.com]

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by opinionated_science on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:14PM

        by opinionated_science (4031) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:14PM (#187345)

        There is a wide consensus that the racial categories that are common in everyday usage are socially constructed, and that racial groups cannot be biologically defined. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) [wikipedia.org].

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:12AM (#187440)

        There is no such thing as different races of humans. What you mean is ethnicity. There is only one race: the human race.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mcgrew on Monday May 25 2015, @12:56PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday May 25 2015, @12:56PM (#187591) Homepage Journal

        For an example of why culture can be a bad thing? Just look at the ample evidence that the current culture of the American black, which glorifies violence and gangs, drugs, abusing women and abandoning children

        That isn't black culture, it's ghetto culture and perpetuated by the media; look at the music coming out these days. It looks like they've gotten to you, your brain has been hacked.

        That's a rate 6 times higher than white males of the same age bracket

        But not the same income bracket.

        the poorest place in America is white

        And rural. That makes a HUGE difference. Black poor country folk are much like white poor country folk, white ghetto dwellers are no different at all from black ghetto dwellers. I drink in a ghetto bar and know these people. Violent assholes come in all sizes, shapes, and colors.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 2) by shortscreen on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:15PM

      by shortscreen (2252) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:15PM (#187238) Journal

      Groups of heritable traits whose frequency varies by geographic area sounds like biology to me.

      • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:11PM

        by opinionated_science (4031) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:11PM (#187344)

        Race is "he's dark, I'm light so we are different human beings". Or "My family claims to worship this dusty book, so we are special" is another commonly bandied around definition.

        Previously defined "traits" are a far less accurate marker than genetics, the language is slowly coming to terms with this.

        Geography is almost useless as a means for isolating human evolution with the prevalence of long range migration it is very difficult to be specific.

        To repeat: there is no scientific basis for race, although there are many political movements that do not like this fact.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:37PM (#187361)

          > To repeat: there is no scientific basis for race, although there are many political movements that do not like this fact.

          To wit:
          Kian and Remee [dailymail.co.uk]
          Lucy and Maria [dailymail.co.uk]

          The irony of citing the most racist newspaper in the UK is not lost on me.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:52AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:52AM (#187457)

          Race is "he's dark, I'm light so we are different human beings"

          NO, not "different human beings", unless you're a bigot trying to justify your bigotry by claiming the group you hate isn't even human (the entire premise of racism). Race is "This group has these visually identifiable, heritable traits which are different from that group". That is race. "Different human beings" isn't part of it, except as bigoted bullshit.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:23AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:23AM (#187495)

          Race is "he's dark, I'm light so we are different human beings".

          No it's not [reference.com]. Race is defined by common genetic heritage. Skin color isn't a necessary condition, Slavics are different race from Anglo-saxons even through they have very similar skin pigmentation.

          Previously defined "traits" are a far less accurate marker than genetics, the language is slowly coming to terms with this.

          That's because race is not defined by genetics you fruitcake. It's like saying that there are no video game genres because there is no inherent code basis to differentiate them on. Race is specified based on heritable observable characteristics.

          Geography is almost useless as a means for isolating human evolution with the prevalence of long range migration it is very difficult to be specific.

          Which doesn't matter because different human population did remain genetically segregated, regardless of the reasons. We have plentiful of historical evidence to support this.

          To repeat: there is no scientific basis for race

          "Scientific basis" is the kind of nonsense phrase that a science-illiterate would use to add fake validity to a baseless claim. Scientists have been using the concept of race since at least the 17th century [wikipedia.org]. The idea was widely adopted in mainstream science up until very recently, including by esteemed natural scientists such as Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace.
          Today scientists don't use race that much because genetics offers a superior alternative, not because it's "not real".

          although there are many political movements that do not like this fact

          And there are many political movements who don't like the concept of race and want it gone. And that is completely irrelevant, except as a cheap shot attempt to associate the opposition with vain political agenda and unpopular political views.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:13AM (#187540)

        That's infrasubspecific variability, not race.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:41AM (#187900)

        Groups of heritable traits whose frequency varies by geographic area sounds like biology to me.

        Well, that is most likely because you are in Marketing, or racism, rather than actual biology. But thank you for your opinion. as ill informed, bigoted and backward as it is. Have a nice day, too. Watch out for falling houses.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:35PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:35PM (#187189)

    That seems to be an incorrect allocation of responsibility.

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:43PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:43PM (#187192) Homepage

      While I could have used better word choice there, immigration is one of the primary drivers of the rise of nationalist parties although it cannot be singularly blamed.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday May 25 2015, @01:00PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday May 25 2015, @01:00PM (#187593) Homepage Journal

        Indeed. If you don't wish to be assimilated into German culture, don't move to Germany. Don't know Spanish? Don't move to Mexico.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM (#187228) Journal

      Especially because in the European examples, immigration is not some ethno-sociological experiment - or some disease these societies attracted through sheer osmosis.

      The great migrations are the direct consequence of European and American states late-stage colonial domination of the world, for labour and resource.

      Poor students of history are those who credit immigrant migration to the colonial capitals as a sign of the weakness shown by misguided altruistic impulse of the exploitative power. That is self-congratulatory delusion, used to justify subtle hatreds and aggressive domination.

      Judeans and Britons and Phrygians all migrated to Rome, in that time. Hittites and Babylonians and Elamites crowded into the Nineveh of the Assyrian despots. No one with any clear interpretation will assign this circumstance to the magnanimity and liberal guiding vision of those powers.

      Now, when the compartmentalized colonization and exploitation of the world may occur in such a way as not to intrude on the moderately comfortable lives of the beneficiaries - when this occurs with the technological dominance and industrial scales afforded by our past two centuries of "progress" - of course then, the magnet of the capitals draw their disenfranchised or depleted conquests towards promises of opportunity.

      Birds come home to roost.

      Great multi-cultural Empires of the past existed - Achaemenid Persia, 2nd Century Rome. They lasted hundreds of years. They were integrative - with organic, bi-directonal flow of culture. One proof is in the existence of a Roman Christianity!

      This meta-state, Empire of industrial capital and post-industrial finance colonialism is not "multicultural" - nor has it ever acceded such. The call for a multi-cultural perspective has come from the marginalized and downtrodden, using the rhetoric of the supposedly "enlightened" liberal Empire they must reconcile.

      When the feigned sensibilities of these pseudo-tolerant American and European societies are offended - on the verge of being forced to confront the hypocrisy of their creeds - then come the wails: "See, there's no way to accommodate these savages within the scope of civilization." It s a way to maintain cultural and economic dominance. The "free" world was built ENTIRELY on the enslavement of every other people on earth, for which it was practical to do so.

      Failing to confront this reality, instead it becomes current to again blame the world's victims for not wholeheartedly embracing the values of those who burned their cities and robbed their well-being and livelihoods for the past three centuries.

      --
      You're betting on the pantomime horse...
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by GungnirSniper on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:17PM

        by GungnirSniper (1671) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:17PM (#187346) Journal

        I disagree. The cause of immigration isn't colonialism itself but the destructive capitalist desire for lower wages at any shared societal cost. The Great War and World War II destroyed generations of workers that the governments decided to bring in outsiders, in complete disregard to the causes of war in the first place - ethnic strife. In the examples you cite, the immigration was much lower and slower, and thus allowed for assimilation rather than population replacement.

        • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:57PM

          by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:57PM (#187413) Journal

          Yet you see hugest influx of economic migrants into the nations which formerly dominated their homes.

          Indonesians in Nederland

          Nigerians, South Asians in UK

          Vietnamese, Cambodians and Philippine in USA

          Algerian, sub-Saharan Africa in France, etc.

          --
          You're betting on the pantomime horse...
        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday May 25 2015, @12:09AM

          by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Monday May 25 2015, @12:09AM (#187420) Journal

          If you think the world wars were created by "ethnic strife" - not pillage of Capital? There''s no hope for your brainwashed pseudo-intellect. You receive the ideas of others instead of thinking.

          --
          You're betting on the pantomime horse...
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by frojack on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:33PM

        by frojack (1554) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:33PM (#187356) Journal

        It seems to me that you lost site of your point, (as did I) in your headlong rush toward spreading more heat than light.

        Regardless historical reasons for the migration to foreign places, the immigrants were expected to, and mostly did, assimilate themselves into the culture of their chosen new country.

        Sometimes this was by choice, (they did, after all, in most cases move by choice), and other times by they adopted the new culture as an economic expedient to earning a living. Only in rare instances, where no specific culture held a significant numerical advantage (abandoned colones) did separate and approximately equal cultures live side by side in cooperation.

        Multiculturalism urges the hew host country to stop expecting any trend toward assimilation, and encourages the migrants to stop doing that, leaving us in a living Tower of Babel. And this is a relatively new trend and the results a dismal failure, leaving disparate groups living at odds.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:54PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:54PM (#187366)

          It seems to me that you lost site of your point,

          As well as loosing sight of the point of this site! OMG, See what Multiculturalism hath wrought? Our Soylentils cannot spell! This is what comes of mixing the races.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:44PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:44PM (#187727)

            As well as loosing sight of the point of this site! OMG, See what Multiculturalism hath wrought? Our Soylentils cannot spell! This is what comes of mixing the races.

            Was that meant to be ironic?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:46AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:46AM (#187902)

              Was that meant to be ironic?

              Yes! Dear superior being, Yes! Glad someone (this is not frojack posting AC? Didn't think so.) got it. I find that when you assume the grammar Nazi role, it helps to make some further error yourself, so the criticism is more easily accepted. Or not, if no one notices! Of course, if they don't notice, they probably do not understand the correction in the first place. Misxpelling+ Miscegenation! Get it?

        • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:59PM

          by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:59PM (#187414) Journal

          "Multiculturalism urges the hew host country to stop expecting any trend toward assimilation"

          There is your strawman. Send for the torches!

          --
          You're betting on the pantomime horse...
        • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday May 25 2015, @12:02AM

          by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Monday May 25 2015, @12:02AM (#187417) Journal

          Earlier phases of "Multiculturalism" are why you have a German Xmas tree, a "European" Xianity from near east and why you get to have Bing Crosby sing Cole Porter jazz songs about it.

          Kindly fuck yourself, and your pitiless ignorant chauvinism.

          --
          You're betting on the pantomime horse...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:50AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:50AM (#187455)
            You sound really angry, and it's kind of funny, but I don't see what's worth getting so worked up about. Your posts have made less and less sense as you've gone on.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:12PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:12PM (#187235)

      Pragmatically, my g-g-grandparents learned English and blended in and now I'm a happy well adjusted (?) member of the oppressor class, while observationally the experimental result of not learning English and not even minimally trying to fit in (sounds more like an invasion than an immigration) seems to result in much butthurt on both sides.

      So given two strategies both with an enormous amount of historical evidence, one leading to girl scout camp fire songs about love vs the other strategy that leads to riots and wasted lives, its hard not to get annoyed at people who pick a path that knowingly leads to their own destruction. Can only cry ignorance so long, its not that hard to figure out the historical results of certain strategies. Doesn't take a napoleon or alexander or caesar to figure this puzzle out.

      The frustration feels much like arguing with drug addicts... You, uh, know that the solution to your problems isn't at the bottom of that liquor bottle, right? You, uh, know that intentionally creating a small separated isolated sub-culture adjacent to the wealthier main culture leads to permanent socioeconomic inferiority and eventually somebodies neighborhood burning down, and it ain't gonna be the rich guys houses doing the burning, right?

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:54PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:54PM (#187276)

        The frustration feels much like arguing with drug addicts... You, uh, know that the solution to your problems isn't at the bottom of that liquor bottle, right? You, uh, know that intentionally creating a small separated isolated sub-culture adjacent to the wealthier main culture leads to permanent socioeconomic inferiority and eventually somebodies neighborhood burning down, and it ain't gonna be the rich guys houses doing the burning, right?

        Drug addict is right. You are tripping on the drug of power if you think the people with the least amount of social capital are the ones creating those isolated communities. People don't choose to live in a ghetto, they are left with no other choice.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:59PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:59PM (#187732)

          Drug addict is right. You are tripping on the drug of power if you think the people with the least amount of social capital are the ones creating those isolated communities. People don't choose to live in a ghetto, they are left with no other choice.

          Indeed. While VLM makes a lot of sense, he might also wish to consider that those ghettos do not belong to the inhabitants. It is a lot easier to burn the place down when you don't feel that you have much stake in keeping it protected. Currently I live in an apartment. In the unlikely event that I knew a race riot was about to break out in the neighborhood, I would probably load up my car with the things in that apartment that were most valuable (and easily transportable) and head for some place safe. I sure as hell wouldn't risk my life to try to save someone else's property.

  • (Score: 3, Disagree) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:40PM

    by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:40PM (#187190)
    I disagree with the premise that multiculturalism has failed.
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Dr Spin on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:04PM

      by Dr Spin (5239) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:04PM (#187195)

      Me too.

      Maybe there are places it has failed - but it is not a universal failure. Multiculturism is a great success where I live: I can eat food from a different country every day of the month, and
      enjoy the contributions to music, fashion and art made by people around the world.

      OP is just a piece of UKIP propaganda. Most immigrants appear to work as hard as anyone else, especially given that many find it harder to get jobs because of prejudice.

      I know some British politician said "you cant pick and choose from different cultures" - he was an idiot - of course you can!

      But then - politicians tend to be idiots.

      --
      Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by BK on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:58PM

        by BK (4868) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:58PM (#187220)

        Maybe there are places it has failed - but it is not a universal failure. Multiculturism is a great success where I live: I can eat food from a different country every day of the month

        Sadly, we need to define terms here.

        The fact that I can get Pizza, Fajitas, Hamburgers, Bologna, Sushi, and Scotch* within a mile of my house is not evidence of the success or failure of multiculturalism.

        Multiculturalism is more than letting someone who looks different live in your neighborhood. Multiculturalism requires the acceptance and possibly the celebration of what makes that person or culture different. The term Cultural Relativism speaks to this practice alone. Another aspect of Multiculturalism is Open Borders - the idea that there should be no legal barrier to entry for those with those from different cultures. The final, and perhaps the most important aspect of Multiculturalism is non-integrationism -- the belief that those from other cultures should not change their practices, views, beliefs, etc. in order to fit in with their parent community.

        Multiculturalism has led to the close settling of cultures with diametrically opposed views and practices. The most obvious example I am aware of is the inter-settling of European Christiann-Agnostic-Secularists and Muslim-Theocratists from Africa and the Middle East.

        *Scotch was a possible fuel for this discussion though.

        --
        ...but you HAVE heard of me.
        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:06PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:06PM (#187324)

          > Another aspect of Multiculturalism is Open Borders - the idea that there should be no legal barrier to entry for those with those from different cultures.

          Since that exists no where in the world, it seems your citation of it is more about displaying your tribal affiliation with other nationalists than an actual discussion of facts.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM (#187268)

        I don't. Do you have any evidence at all to back up your assertion? Being able to eat food from different countries is not multiculturalism. We have that in the US too, and we've had that for a very, very long time. The US is not, historically, a multicultural society, it's one which was built by assimilative immigration. In fact, you seem to be arguing for assimilation, not multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is not people moving into a new society and becoming part of it; it's defined by people moving to another country and then maintaining their separate culture, and NOT integrating.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @01:01AM

        by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @01:01AM (#187432)

        Multiculturism is a great success where I live: I can eat food from a different country every day of the month, and
        enjoy the contributions to music, fashion and art made by people around the world.

        I like those things, too. I hate to be the one who has to bring you the bad news, but that's not what multiculturalism is, as it's practiced by people actively pursuing that goal as a social program. We enjoy the diversity of cuisine, music, and personal expression, but we aren't so thrilled with radically different views on the nature of human rights. I like the food from the Middle-East and I'm happy it's here. I don't like female genital mutilation, honor killings, and virulent strains of intolerant theology.

        And the ultra-progressive, post-modern, relativists under the umbrella term "Social Justice Warriors" focus in on just those things and say you're racist if you don't embrace them with as much zeal as you do for the kebab.

        Well, I'm not going to do that. Some ideas are worse than others when it comes to stewarding human lives through a happy existence in communion with other human lives. It's objectively worse to live under an Islamic theocracy than it is to live under a secular state. It's objectively worse for female human beings to force them to live in cloth sacks rather than have the freedom to make their own choices. I don't want these ideas to spread to areas where they have never existed.

        As a man of the left, it's horrifying that the only people willing to stand up and say this are right-wing nutters. I hate nationalism too, so I'm not happy to see most of my allies in this being right-wing types. Still, I'll welcome support where I can get it.

        --
        Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @02:24AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @02:24AM (#187471)

          > I don't like female genital mutilation, honor killings, and virulent strains of intolerant theology.

          Because those are all muslim things.

          FGM: [wikipedia.org]
          Eritrea: FGM is prevalent in 99% of Muslim women, 89% of Catholics and 85% of Protestants
          Ethiopia: FGM is prevalent in 92% of Muslim women, 72% of Protestants, 67% of Catholics and 67% of Traditional Religions
          Kenya: FGM is prevalent in 50% of Muslim women, 33% of Catholics, 30% of Protestant women.
          Nigeria: FGM is prevalent in 31% of Catholics, 27% of Protestant and 7% of Muslim women
          Burkina Faso: FGM is prevalent in 82% of Muslim women, 73% of traditional religions, 69% of Roman Catholics and 65% of Protestants
          Central African Republic: FGM was prevalent in 46% of Animist women, 39% of Muslim, 36% of Protestants, and 35% of Catholic women
          Guinea: FGM is prevalent in 99% of Muslim women, 94% of Catholics and Protestants, and 93% of Animist women
          ----

          Honor Killings [wikipedia.org]
          Latin America: The view that violence can be justified in the name of honor and shame exists traditionally in Latin American societies, and machismo is often described as a code of honor. The law of Uruguay continues to tolerate crimes of passion due to adultery

          Brazil: Throughout the 20th century, husbands have used in court cases the "legitimate defense of their honor" (legitima defesa da honra) as justification for adultery-related killings. Although this defense was not explicitly stipulated in the 20th century Criminal Code, it has been successfully pleaded by lawyers throughout the 20th century

          India:
              Haryana (88% hindu) is notorious for incidents of honor killings, mainly in the upper caste of society, among rajputs and jaats.[74][188] Honor killings have been described as "chillingly common in villages of Haryana dominated by the lawless 'khap panchayats' (caste councils of village elders)"
            The Indian state of Punjab (60% Sikh, 37% hindu) also has a large number of honor killings
          ----

          virulent strains of intolerant theology:
              Sikh Temple Murders [splcenter.org]
              Church of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan [splcenter.org]
              Church of the American Knights of the KKK [adl.org]
              Selected White Supremacist Criminal Incidents, 2009-2012 [adl.org]
              Nine white Mississippi teenagers plotted race attacks that led to murder [theguardian.com]
              Users of White Power Website Have Committed Nearly 100 Murders [nbcnews.com]

          This shit is ALL around you. The only reason you think it is a muslim thing is because you ... are ... not ... paying ... attention.

          > I'm not happy to see most of my allies in this being right-wing types.

          You are known by the company you keep.

          • (Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @02:34AM

            by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @02:34AM (#187475)

            Yes, in fact they are all Muslim things. They are not *exclusively* Muslim things. I don't care if it's Islam or some other religion. What the Jews do to baby boys' penises is abhorrent to me, and is morally equivalent to FGM. Unfortunately, there are many religions practicing all sorts of barbarism including sects of Christianity and Judaism. I'm an anti-theist and I don't have any respect for Christianity, like a lot of the European nationalists. However, it's simply naive to think that every religion presents problems of equal scope or depth. Currently, there is a particular religion which is especially problematic in the West; it is Islam. Add up all the other crimes and outrages from every other religion and they don't equal that caused directly by the doctrines of Islam--crimes not attributable to political or territorial grievances.

            And as for the company I keep, I'll take an honest conservative over a social justice warrior any day. At least they understand that a commitment to tolerance is not a suicide pact, and that pluralism must be a two-way street. There are ideas which are simply incompatible with liberal secular democracy, and immigrants who insist on holding to them should not be accommodated in the West.

            --
            Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:06AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:06AM (#187486)

              > Yes, in fact they are all Muslim things. They are not *exclusively* Muslim things.

              Jesus christ. It is right in front of you and yet you choose to be blind.
              When everybody is doing it, regardless of religion, it is not about religion.

              I am not surprised you idenitfy as an anti-thiest. You guys make everything about religion and can't see anything else. You've turned into a mirror image of what you claim to hate.

              > Currently, there is a particular religion which is especially problematic in the West; it is Islam.

              Hardly. Using the broadest possible definitions, just 37 Americans have been killed in muslim-linked terrorism since 9/11. [duke.edu] That is out of 190,000 total murders. You are upset about 0.0019% of killings. That's your big issue. That's about as intellectually bankrupt as you can get.

              > And as for the company I keep, I'll take an honest conservative

              Well, you've thrown your lot in with the dishonest conservatives so I guess that makes you a dishonest liberal.

              > There are ideas which are simply incompatible with liberal secular democracy,

              Yes you are absolutely right. The worst idea of them all is racism. Time for you to go.

              • (Score: 3, Touché) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @03:10AM

                by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @03:10AM (#187489)

                The worst idea of them all is racism. Time for you to go.

                Pray tell, which race have I offended or singled out? And please don't embarrass yourself by saying "Muslims". If you can convert into and out of something, it can't be a race--even by the inaccurate and scientifically invalid definition most people have for the word.

                --
                Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:24AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:24AM (#187496)

                  If you can convert into and out of something, it can't be a race--even by the inaccurate and scientifically invalid definition most people have for the word.

                  Haha. I dangled that out there for you because racists love to try prove their superiority by jumping on that with pedantry.

                  First off, you lose for biting and in the process tacitly admitting everything else I wrote is correct.

                  race: [oxforddictionaries.com]
                  1.1 A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc
                      example: 'They sought to weld the country's diverse ethnicities into a Brazilian race defined in historical and cultural terms.'
                      example: 'We are trying to find out why the British as a race find it amazingly funny to take their clothes off'
                  1.3 A group or set of people or things with a common feature or features
                      example: 'some male firefighters still regarded women as a race apart
                      example: 'This sedentary behaviour is apparently turning our kids into a race of slothful fatties who risk a reduced lifespan and other problems.'
                      example: 'As a matter of fact isn't ‘redneck’ a word used in disdain to describe a race and class of people?'

                  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @03:28AM

                    by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @03:28AM (#187497)

                    Islam isn't a race, and I'm not a racist. To be a racist, I'd have to hate or prejudge a group of people because of their race. That is the only qualification to be a racist, and lacking that prejudice is the only thing you have to do to not be a racist. Most Muslims are SE Asian. Some Muslims are white. Some Arabs are atheists.

                    You don't get to just assert that your interlocutor has certain beliefs and be taken seriously. If you want to act in that way, I'll just leave you alone to read from the dictionary some more.

                    --
                    Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
                    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:36AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:36AM (#187500)

                      To be a racist, I'd have to hate or prejudge a group of people because of their race.

                      Hey dude, take it up with the OED. They are just the most authoritative dictionary of the english language.

                      You don't get to just assert that your interlocutor has certain beliefs and be taken seriously.

                      I'm not asserting shit. You are. All you have done is rail against muslims. Own it dude. You threw in with the racists and that shit rubbed off on you too.

      • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday May 25 2015, @02:21AM

        by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday May 25 2015, @02:21AM (#187469)

        I can do all of those things too, and I'm pretty sure I don't live in a same country as you.
        I have thought about just this issue a few times recently, as I sometimes see a handsome young Asian man, (probably Indian, but maybe Sri Lankan), walking hand-in-hand with a very beautiful young Asian woman (probably Chinese, but maybe Korean), in a shopping mall I walk through to get my train home.
        They look like a couple, and seem quite happy.
        I have no idea where they were born, but I'd be prepared to bet they are not themselves immigrants, but rather the children of immigrants. I also wonder what their fathers' think of their relationship, I hope it all goes well for them.
        I'm very happy that two people of different ethnic groups are able to meet and form a bond in my country, and hopefully, over time it will become so run of the mill that I won't even notice.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM (#187210) Journal

      Cool. You disagree. Can you point to any examples where it has WORKED? It hasn't worked in the US, and it seems to be failing in Europe. Maybe you have some OTHER examples, like Japan, or Korea, or - I don't know - maybe Mexico?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:58PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:58PM (#187219)

        Aside from arbitrary lines on a map, I think its more instructive to look at economic level. Its hard to find a wealthy area, Manhattan Island, City of London, maybe SFO, where people are so rich they don't care who their neighbors are, plus gated communities, such that "it works if people are distracted enough by rolling around in stinking piles of money".

        Then again, try the rest of the world. Places that aren't so rich. Alabama, Iraq, the ghettos in France, Germany in the 20s and 30s, hmmm not quite such a multicultural success story, eh? In fact it seems almost universal, if you don't have a Nordstroms or a Saks you probably don't have the piles of cash to be successfully multicultural.

        To some extent multiculturalism is the ultimate 1%er dog whistle, where you get to brag about how wealthy your community is without actually stating you're rich.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:19PM (#187348)

          In such a case of Nordstroms or Saks then that becomes your culture and thus multiculturalism still fails. 1%ers all around the world share a very homogenous monoculture compared to the rest of us.

      • (Score: 1) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:13PM

        by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:13PM (#187290)

        Found the following article that makes good reading on this subject - probably better reading than any reply I could knock-up in 3 minutes - The successes and failures of multiculturalism [policy-network.net]

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:26PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:26PM (#187297) Journal

          LOL - it's probably a damned good article. I can tell because I'm not allowed to read it.

          "You don't have the correct permissions for this page."

          I was looking forward to something challenging, too!

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:28PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:28PM (#187299) Journal

          Sorry - I posted to quickly. I did a search for the article you cited, and ixquick gave me a link to the same story on the same site - it opens up for me. Reading . . .

          • (Score: 1) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM

            by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM (#187305)
            damnit... that link worked for however I got there.. yet agree it doesn't work directly *shakes fist at the internet*
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:39PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:39PM (#187310) Journal

          I looked at those numbers. The numbers are somewhat deceiving. Please, listen to Brigitte as she explains the importance of those numbers.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s [youtube.com]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:48PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:48PM (#187315)

            What is it with the crazies always citing videos?

            You are a gamergater too aren't you? Those freakjobs love to link to videos, like we should spend 5+ minutes listening to some rando rambling about something that isn't even on topic to start with? Come on man. Posting those videos is like masturbating, it makes you feel good but nobody else wants to see that.

            • (Score: 1) by KGIII on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:16PM

              by KGIII (5261) on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:16PM (#187374) Journal

              Depending on their gender I might want to see it...

              Yes, I joined just to add this and figure I may like the site as it is an analogue of /. which I still enjoy reading (at times).

              Anyhow, we still have (here in the US) areas that are traditionally Italian, French, Irish, and such. Chinatown ring a bell? So we have limited multicultural aspects I suppose.

              --
              "So long and thanks for all the fish."
              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:41PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:41PM (#187386)

                You picked a shitty topic to join up for.

                Its the same cast of characters that rationalize their bigotry every time a story like this gets posted.

                No amount of facts will deter them, even when they are directly refuted with unequivocal facts it just slides off like water on a duck's back and they will be right back with the same persecution fantasies and half-truths the next time a similar story gets posted. At best they have value as a foil. But it makes you feel icky after a while.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:44PM (#187312)

          Found the following article that makes good reading on this subject - probably better reading than any reply I could knock-up in 3 minutes - The successes and failures of multiculturalism

          You dropped an ampersand from the URL.
          This is a working link. [policy-network.net]

          • (Score: 1) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:57PM

            by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:57PM (#187320)

            Well I didn't drop it!!!!

            There's a global conspiracy, I swear!!!! THEY DID IT!!!

  • (Score: 1) by twistedcubic on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:42PM

    by twistedcubic (929) on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:42PM (#187191)

    The only complaint I saw in the summary is (paraphrased) "immigrants suck because they need social assistance". What does this have to do with multiculturalism? In a free society, what's wrong with me practicing whatever religion I want, eating whatever food I choose to cook or buy, study whatever I want, associate with whomever I want, and say whatever I want to say? People who can't handle these differences declare that "multiculturalism has failed", when ironically, it's their imaginations which have failed.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:47PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @04:47PM (#187193)

      People who can't handle these differences

      Don't forget the ones that shoot cartoonists in your list of intolerance.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:15PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:15PM (#187200)
        He didn't forget, the number is just very low.
        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:49PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:49PM (#187215)

          The problem isn't the dude pulling the trigger or the dude getting hit, but all the cheering from the sidelines and the apologists.

          For all of history people have been pretty lazy. Pulling a historical 60s civil rights example, the problem wasn't black dudes getting lynched, because the odds were higher of getting hit by lightning (or at least of a similar order of magnitude, point being it wasn't a genocide). The problem was the stereotypical couch potatoe thinking thats the best idea ever even if they just kinda sat on their couch that night, and eventual success was defined not by a slightly lower lynch rate but by stereotypical couch potatoe thinking thats now the worst idea ever.

          I think you could argue cause and effect for a long time, who's leading, the 999 couch potatoes muttering the conventional wisdom back and forth, or the 1 dude who took action making the couch potatoes think (note, people hate to think, and the eventual result might not be supportive...)

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:04PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:04PM (#187225)
            No, there aren't millions of people grouped in a particular religion who want to kill you but are too lazy to do it. If you keep thinking like that, though, it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:05PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:05PM (#187284)
              Bollocks, of course there are. In addition there are even more grouped in "a particular religion" that wouldn't be unhappy to hear about one of their co-believers martyring themselves and taking a bunch of infidels with them. Let's put a name to it. There are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. If 0.1% of them would actively choose to kill me given the chance, then there are 1.6 million that would do so. If there are 10x as many that would look on with approval, then there are 16 million that are "too lazy". What percentage of the population of people that believe in Islam worldwide would you say could be classified as "radical"? My feeling is that 1% is a low estimate.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:21PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:21PM (#187403)
                Yet you feel safe where you live. Must be under a force field.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:30AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:30AM (#187550)

                  Yet you feel safe where you live. Must be under a force field.

                  No, I am in a bunker with massive amounts of ammo and my entire porn collection! Not! Actually I am cowering in fear that someone of a religion I know next to nothing about may attack me in my living room and CUT MY F**KING HEAD OFF! That's where I am. Where are you, and how's it going?

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:11PM (#187234)

            > The problem isn't the dude pulling the trigger or the dude getting hit, but all the cheering from the sidelines and the apologists.

            Why don’t more moderate Muslims denounce extremism? [washingtonpost.com]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:21PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:21PM (#187349)

              That anecdotal experience by one journalist is counter to the polls around the western world that show apathy to outright support for this sort of behavior by islamic communities.

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:31PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:31PM (#187355)

                That anecdotal experience by one journalist is counter to the polls around the western world that show apathy to outright support for this sort of behavior by islamic communities.

                (1) You don't seem to understand the definition of "anecdotal."
                (2) Also, false: Muslims Americans more likely than other faith groups to reject attacks on civilians [gallup.com]

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:21AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:21AM (#187443)

                  1. You obviously don't understand the definition of anecdotal nor how to make a point. He has individual experiences that he is using for generalizations and you just believe it blindly while denouncing anyone pointing out the complete lack of reason.
                  2. Also, my point is true: and my source has many polls proving my point [chersonandmolschky.com] while yours is one poll that is only tangentially related.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:47AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:47AM (#187452)

                    > He has individual experiences that he is using for generalizations

                    He is a reporter, reporting on facts.

                    > and my source has many polls proving my point while yours is one poll that is only tangentially related.

                    (1) You don't seem to understand the definition of "tangential."
                    (2) Not even close. For one thing "23 countries across Southeastern Europe, Asia, North Africa and the Middle East" is literally not the western world and for another belief in sharia is no more support for extremism than keeping kosher and obeying the talmud is.

                    You really suck at definitions. Srsly. Stop using words you don't understand.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:33PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @11:33PM (#187406)
                The denouncement of the attacks is fact. Your claim about the polls isn't.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:17AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:17AM (#187441)

                  Make up things all you want the truth remains the same.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @02:30AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @02:30AM (#187472)
                    The denouncements are verified. The polls, even if they exist, are not a statement of fact. Your reply doesn't belong where it landed.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:16PM (#187201)

      > What does this have to do with multiculturalism?

      That part doesn't and neither does Merkel's victim blaming Those are just e-fueled finding what he wants to find.

      If you read the Foreign Affairs article it roundly blames the government for pitting minorities against each other rather than supporting their commonality. Instead of protecting them from abuse by people who want to define them as "other" it built walls that enforced the idea of them as "other" like forbidding citizenship to 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants. It was also very interesting to read that France's obsession with things like the purity of the french language is mostly rose-colored glasses, how at the time of the french revolution 50 of the population didn't even speak french and only about 15% spoke 'proper' french.

      One thing about humans - we will always find ways to divide the group up into "us" and "them" no matter how minute the differences.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:46PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:46PM (#187212) Journal

      How 'bout those subway bombings in London? The Boston Marathon bombers? This multiculturalism thing is just a fancy way of saying that you welcome poisonous creatures into your family.

      If a group refuses to assimilate into YOUR culture, they should not be welcomed, it's simple as that.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:17PM (#187239)

        How 'bout those subway bombings in London? The Boston Marathon bombers? This multiculturalism thing is just a fancy way of saying that you welcome poisonous creatures into your family.

        Just like Anders Brevik, Craig Hicks, Michael Page and Jean Charles de Menezes are proof that you welcome the poisonous creatures that are already part of your family.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:23PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:23PM (#187247)

          that are already part of your family.

          Not entirely sure which side of the argument you're supporting, but I'll assume you are along the path of something they have in common is getting kicked out of the family, either into prison or whatever afterlife may or may not exist. For the benefit of folks who don't recognize the list of murders names.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:32PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:32PM (#187255)

            Finally, someone who gets it!
            Thanks man, I couldn't have done it without you!

            • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM

              by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM (#187266)

              Thanks man, I couldn't have done it without you!

              No problem, I'm just glad I didn't have to unleash one of my world famous automobile analogies. Its kinda like when the fuel injectors decide to move in, suddenly the carburetor is permanently unemployed and we have to install systemd on the engine computer to make the injectors happy or they'll riot and burn down the engine compartment because injectors use vi and the car used to be a pure church of emacs, and they refuse to learn the local editor to fit in. Or something like that.

              In light of the usual social stress involving semi-controversial topics, it might be fun to come up with the worst imaginable analogy involving cars and systemd and all the greats from the past.

              • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:59PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:59PM (#187280)

                Hahah! You are so clever and smart.
                You grace us with your unique insight and wit!

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:34PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:34PM (#187258) Journal

            Exactly. We do send our own family members to prison for murdering people at random - or, we even execute them.

            With this multiculturalism thing, we're expected to accept the thought that imams can sit safely inside their temples, preaching to the next generation that the culture surrounding them is evil, and must be destroyed.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:40PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:40PM (#187263)

              we're expected to accept the thought that imams can sit safely inside their temples, preaching to the next generation that the culture surrounding them is evil, and must be destroyed.

              Same reason we are expected to accept the thought that grand wizards can sit safely inside their temples, preaching to the next generation that the culture surrounding them is evil, and must be destroyed.

              • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:05PM

                by jmorris (4844) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:05PM (#187340)

                Same reason we are expected to accept the thought that grand wizards can sit safely inside their temples...

                Except of course for one small detail; we don't in point of fact do that. It is true that we do respect their 1st Amendment right to say what they do, we allow them to march, etc. The State doesn't infringe their rights, and this is right and proper and the most radical Islamic fundamentalist should expect the same protections of basic civil rights to speak, write and think. On the other hand, society applies every possible sanction on the old Terror Wing of the Democratic Party (now that it isn't needed and works against the current policy of oppressing blacks via the smothering hand of the welfare state... another subject for another thread) in such a way that they are effectively excluded from all civilized discourse. Meanwhile, the thought of subjecting militant Islam to the same sort of shunning is simply unthinkable by the progressives who command the cultural highlands. When discussing racial strife a representative from the Klan is never invited, while certain Islamic terrorist financiers, sympathizers and unindicted coconspiractors always seem to find airtime.

                The question I put before the group here is why? Is someone willing to attempt a rational explanation for this difference?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:26PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:26PM (#187351)

                  > When discussing racial strife a representative from the Klan is never invited

                  The way Fox interviewed [youtube.com] Paul Fromm? [wikipedia.org]

                  Yeah that never happens.

                  • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:24PM

                    by jmorris (4844) on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:24PM (#187377)

                    Seeing as how you had to find an obscure reference from seven years ago, I can only thank you for making my point.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:43PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:43PM (#187264)

              With this multiculturalism thing, we're expected to accept the thought that Tele-evangelists can sit safely inside their temples, preaching to the next generation that the culture surrounding them is evil, and must be destroyed.

              Fixed that for you, as well. And don't forget Waco, Oklahoma City, several Mosques, synagoges, and a Sikh temple where cultural crazies have gone homicidal.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:02PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:02PM (#187282)

                No no! Those people are white so their culture isn't to blame. It is some other reason.
                Only brown people with funny clothes and funny accents who smell like strange food can be cultural ideologues. It is part of their culture!

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by isostatic on Monday May 25 2015, @01:06AM

          by isostatic (365) on Monday May 25 2015, @01:06AM (#187435) Journal

          What?

          Just like Anders Brevik, Craig Hicks, Michael Page and Jean Charles de Menezes are proof that you welcome the poisonous creatures that are already part of your family.

          Anders Brevik - Killed 77 people
          Craig Hicks - Allegedly killed 3 people
          Michael Page - killed 6 people
          Jean Charles de Menezes - was an electrician on his way to fix a broken fire alarm when the police accidentally killed him

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:42AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @01:42AM (#187450)

            Anders Brevik - Killed 77 people
            Craig Hicks - Allegedly killed 3 people
            Michael Page - killed 6 people
            Police - killed Jean Charles de Menezes for the same reason all the other people were killed

            FTFY

        • (Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @02:54AM

          by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @02:54AM (#187481)

          Anders Brevik is in jail, where he'll be for the rest of his natural life. He wasn't treated like a hero by our society, nor were his tactics accepted (grudgingly or otherwise) by any sizable portion of the population. Contrast that with 20% of British Muslims feeling some sympathy with the motives of the 7/7 bombers. [telegraph.co.uk] These are not the same situations. Muslims in the West simply have a higher incidence of tolerance for violence than the general population. Not all feel this way, certainly, but 1 out of 5 is incredibly significant when populations are in the millions.

          Stop equivocating.

          --
          Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:14AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:14AM (#187492)

            Anders Brevik is in jail, where he'll be for the rest of his natural life. He wasn't treated like a hero by our society, nor were his tactics accepted (grudgingly or otherwise) by any sizable portion of the population. Contrast that with 20% of British Muslims feeling some sympathy with the motives of the 7/7 bombers. These are not the same situations.

            You are right 'tactics' and 'motives' are absolutely not the same thing. What is your explanation for conflating them?

            • (Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @03:18AM

              by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @03:18AM (#187493)

              What is your explanation for conflating them?

              In this context, the sentiment is interchangeable. Read the article. 20% supported the 7/7 bombers in word and deed. Are you going to stick your neck out and claim that anywhere close to that number support Brevik, even only his motivations? Even in the weaker interpretation, my point stands.

              --
              Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:34AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:34AM (#187498)

                > Read the article. 20% supported the 7/7 bombers in word and deed.

                Where is the deed part?
                Seriously there is not a single word to that effect in your cited article. The question in the poll was very explicitly about motives.
                You are making shit up. Which should be a warning sign to you that you are off in the weeds.

                > Are you going to stick your neck out and claim that anywhere close to that number support Brevik, even only his motivations?

                Yes, absolutely. Easily 20% of europe is racist and nationalist.
                For example, the UKIP party got 3.9 million votes in the latest UK elections and those are just the worst of them.
                After all that is the point of this whole story - whining about the browns polluting their countries.
                Hell, one of your most dishonest comrades in arms actually justified not just his motives but his actions. [thinkprogress.org]

    • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:59PM

      by zocalo (302) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:59PM (#187221)
      Nothing is wrong with practicing a given religion, eating what you want, studying what you want, etc. - provided you don't breach the established laws of the land anyway. The problem doesn't really seem to be about multiculturalism per se, most of the countries in the EU have quite cosmopolitan racial makeups (especially in those that practiced colonialism) and are generally accepting of that, so much as the failure of specific communities to integrate into society as a whole. There's a huge difference between moving to a foreign land and practicing your own culture and moving to a foreign land then trying to carve out a corner of it to establish a miniature version of your former homeland.

      If there is a solution to the problem, it lies in addressing why those monocultural enclaves are forming in the first place - allowing for that fact that communities that are heavily biased towards one culture are going to happen because people who share things in common *will* tend to gather together. That's going to be a tough challenge; it doesn't just mean deterring those immigrants who are migrating with that monocultural goal in mind, but also the fear amongst the existing residents that is driving those who might have had a more open mind into those monocultural communities out of fear and a general sense of not being wanted, no matter how much they have to offer.
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:52PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:52PM (#187274)

        it lies in addressing why those monocultural enclaves are forming in the first place

        The .gov and the establishment always support that as an intentional strategy of "divide and conqueror". It sucks for everyone but the establishment.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:19PM (#187293)

        > If there is a solution to the problem, it lies in addressing why those monocultural enclaves are forming in the first place

        If you read the Foreign Affairs article, you'll see that the rise of these enclaves is due primarily to government action - in both countries like the UK and Germany where policies encourage cultural isolation and in France where official policy is to treat everyone equally but also ends up enabling the dominant culture to exclude minorities (such as denying native born children citizenship).

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:32PM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:32PM (#187256) Journal

      Its not the fact that some need assistance, its the problem we are having in the USA with the illegals where you have people coming only for welfare where you end up with the obvious "free rider" problem where you have too many taking out that have never put in. Look at the case in NV that made the news not too long ago where you had coyotes organizing "treatment buses" where they would drop off tons of illegals needing all kinds of expensive medical treatments at the doorsteps of the ERs, to the tune of over 30 million dollars every month which of course ends up being dumped upon the people that have paid in in the form of higher taxes and lower benefits. In my own area the wife of one of my customers is quitting her job as a social worker because she said she is tired of being told to look the other way at illegals gaming the system because the higher ups fear being called "racist" if they deny them. We have seen what that kind of attitude gets you in the UK, where a pedo ring was allowed to operate with impunity because they were Pakistani and the politicians feared being called racist if they went after them!

      The reason you have so many nationalist parties growing in strength every day is because the common man is sick and fucking tired of political correctness replacing common sense and the creation of "protected classes" that are given preferential treatment simply because the politicians fear getting called the "r word" if they treat them like everybody else. As a socialist of the 70s where we were taught a person should be judged by their character and not by some hyphen? I understand why it is happening and if it actually causes a discussion and maybe even an end to this "hyphen driven" racism? Then I'm all for it.

      --
      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:09PM (#187288)

        Look at the case in NV that made the news not too long ago where you had coyotes organizing "treatment buses" where they would drop off tons of illegals needing all kinds of expensive medical treatments at the doorsteps of the ERs,

        I would like to look at that case. Can you provide a citation, because I can't find it. [google.com]

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM (#187306) Journal

        Wow, Hairyfeet, I have not seen so much spittle in once place for a long time! Is your name in real life Archie Bunker? You may have been a liberal or even a socialist at some point, but now you sound just like any other old, rightwing, Fox-watching Tea-bagger! I mean, busses of illegal immigrants being bussed across town to achieve racial equality just because of the Supreme Court legislating from the bench! People on welfare driving Lamborginis, as witnessed by Ronald Reagan!! Not being able to call a spade a spade because then people will know you are a racist, and that is censorship!! And Political Correctness! Oough! The Burn!!!

        But seriously? The "common man"? Fairly uncommon. You should be embarrassed to be one. Yes, you can tell the rest of us to get off your lawn, but just because you are old, bitter, crotchety and racist does not mean that we have to respect your decline into dementia. You should get some help.

        But I do agree with you about the hyphens! Both myself and Teddy Roosevelt agree with you! Remember when Teddy got to be where you are now, and started complaining about all the hyphenated-americans? Around the time of WWI, the Great War, remember? Damn "German-Americans" who couldn't decide which side they were on!!! We should have put them all in camps, like some other Roosevelts would have.

        • (Score: 1) by KGIII on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:37PM

          by KGIII (5261) on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:37PM (#187384) Journal

          I am amused because I once had a bumper sticker made that said, "Archie Bunker for President." It was a sure-fire way to get some amusing responses including horns and the finger here and there.

          --
          "So long and thanks for all the fish."
          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:25AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @07:25AM (#187541)

            Our mission, should you chose to accept it, is to prove to Hairyfeet that he is in fact a Tea Party Republican, and a total Shill for Micro$erf. If you choose to accept this mission, and become part of the team (which is awesome, when you are part of it), please mod up Hairyfeet's racist remarks. We are inflating him to prepare for the inevitable "intervention" that will occur later. Repeat, mod up Hairyfeet until further instructed! End Transmission, Hairyfeet Special Task Force, Social Justice Warriors Division, Internet Sanity Patrol, Div. One, Unit 4.

            • (Score: 1) by KGIII on Monday May 25 2015, @03:40PM

              by KGIII (5261) on Monday May 25 2015, @03:40PM (#187630) Journal

              He appears to be the same HF from /. which means he is mostly harmless as he is too busy online to affect change. You can probably ignore him but it won't be nearly as fun. I will do what I can...

              --
              "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by shortscreen on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM

      by shortscreen (2252) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:45PM (#187267) Journal

      I would say you are mostly right, but there is a type of culture that will always cause problems in a free society: one that doesn't believe in the idea of a free society in the first place.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:21PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:21PM (#187202)

    Midnight, parking lot behind SN, no knives

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:37PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:37PM (#187204) Journal

    As my title says, I WANT to call it a no-brainer. But, I can't quite do that. It takes a LITTLE bit of brains to figure out that some aspects of some cultures are incompatible with some aspects of other cultures.

    There is no culture on earth today that is "evil" or "wrong". People are intrinsically good, whether they be from the east, the west, the north or the south. I believe that - it doesn't matter what color you are, what language you speak, what costume you wear in your daily life, or even what name you call God by. You're probably a pretty decent person, much like myself.

    But, your ancestry, your culture, you way of life developed in response to an environment different from mine. I cannot, will not, change my way of life to accomodate you, if you come to MY country. And, if the shoe is on the other foot, I cannot expect YOU to change your way of life if I should come to YOUR country.

    If I move to some foreign, exotic land, I expect to eventually be assimilated into that culture. And, if you move to my home, I fully expect you to assimilate into my culture.

    This multiculturalism nonsense is exactly that - NONSENSE.

    If you come to America, you need to adopt the American culture - or, as some would say, our lack of culture. Adopt plastic restaurants, serving imitation foods which only contribute to your increasing obesity, totally devoid of nutrients. Adapt to our system of education, however sad that may be at this point in time. Learn our language, and don't expect us to learn yours.

    Whatever value American culture has, it is the culture you are choosing to move into. Adopt it, or stay the fuck home. We don't need you, WHEREVER you are from!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM (#187209)

      Just meekly comply with whatever standards are in place wherever you go, and don't try to challenge anything.

      Is that your motto? If it is, it sounds stupid to me.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:48PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:48PM (#187214) Journal

        If you're the outsider, and you want to plant roots in that new place - yes, you accept whatever is there. End of story.

        If you don't like conditions where you are going, then just don't go there. Find another place to put down roots. THAT MUCH is a fucking no-brainer!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM (#187230)

          You and I had nothing to do with the greatness or economic success (or lack thereof) of our native countries we were born into.

          We have one life to do something with. Not one life to be passive and accept our lot, and then another life where we might be better positioned.

          You seem to be like the Wal-Mart heirs who were born in the middle of a baseball game with the home team leading, 12-1, and thinking that they were the ones that ran up the score. No, they didn't do squat.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @09:35PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @09:35PM (#187740)

            You seem to be like the Wal-Mart heirs who were born in the middle of a baseball game with the home team leading, 12-1, and thinking that they were the ones that ran up the score. No, they didn't do squat.

            I prefer the way Barry Switzer put it: "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." [wikiquote.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:25PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:25PM (#187250)

          My favorite bumper-sticker: "America, Love it or Give It Back." Loyalists and the UKIP making common racist cause? Sounds like Treason to me!

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:57PM

      by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:57PM (#187218)

      If you come to America, you need to adopt the American culture - or, as some would say, our lack of culture. Adopt plastic restaurants, serving imitation foods which only contribute to your increasing obesity, totally devoid of nutrients. Adapt to our system of education, however sad that may be at this point in time. Learn our language, and don't expect us to learn yours.

      Whatever value American culture has, it is the culture you are choosing to move into. Adopt it, or stay the fuck home. We don't need you, WHEREVER you are from!

      Just like the settlers of the US that embraced the existing culture? The very culture you're so proud of is a homogenised one made up of the many many different cultures that jumped into the melting pot.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:17PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:17PM (#187240) Journal

        You get half points for that observation. As I've pointed out in many discussions, on many forums, I am the product of marriages between Native Americans and European settlers. My wife is also a product of the same thing, and she actually qualifies as a tribes woman, if she should ever choose to join the tribe. My stepsons are more than 3/4 Indian.

        You only get half points, because you forget all about those millions of us who have a heritage that predates the European invasion.

        So - I stand by my words. It is suicide for today's culture to submit to the whims of every culture that desires to send colonists here.

        • (Score: 1) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:09PM

          by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:09PM (#187287)
          Submitting to the whims of other cultures as they move in isn't what multiculturalism is about. It is about accepting the differences in cultures in a live-and-let-live sense and growing together. Simply eliminating one culture to replace with another is surely the antithesis of multiculturalism?
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:16PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:16PM (#187291) Journal

            You seem to presume that those other cultures are as accepting as you think that you are.

            MEANWHILE - America's left-wingers are tolerant of anything and everything EXCEPT the already established culture in the US.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:33PM

              by azrael (2855) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:33PM (#187303)

              There's also too much assuming going on that those other cultures aren't aren't as accepting. There's a great line in this article [policy-network.net]:

              a Gallup poll some years ago asked whether people thought Muslims in Britain were loyal to Britain. 58% of the non-Muslims who expressed a view thought they were not, but only 9% of Muslims thought this was the case

              There's a case that with a little wider discussion of the results of multiculturalism some of these inaccurate perceptions can be challenged and fears calmed. The cynical, however, might suggest that there are some who see an advantage in maintaining that ignorance.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @10:36PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @10:36PM (#187763)

                Is it possible to be muslim and still be loyal to another country? According to their book, no. Those who do not take islam first are not muslim

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @03:37AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @03:37AM (#187854)

                  > Is it possible to be muslim and still be loyal to another country? According to their book, no. Those who do not take islam first are not muslim

                  You are correct. We also need to be aware that those who do not take Christianity first are not Christian.

                  "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." Matthew 6:24

                  Similarly, the Apostle Paul wrote:
                  "Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ." Galatians 1:10

                  You just can't trust any of those religious fuckers, can you?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:56PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:56PM (#187338)

              > You seem to presume that those other cultures are as accepting as you think that you are.

              Never mind that is not what he thinks, I just had to laugh at your tautological rebuttal - "you think what you think!" Damn straight he does!

              > America's left-wingers are tolerant of anything and everything EXCEPT the already established culture in the US.

              I know, right?
              Being the majority is the hardest thing. Everybody is always beating you up. So mean!
              Those left-wingers are nothing more than a bunch of meanies!!!

          • (Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @03:04AM

            by K_benzoate (5036) on Monday May 25 2015, @03:04AM (#187485)

            a live-and-let-live sense and growing together

            That's exactly what I want our country to be. Do you accept that there are some cultures that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such? How do you accommodate into your society a group which fundamentally hates some aspect of your culture and wants to change it to more resemble their view of the world? For example, what if some group didn't value freedom of speech when it came to their religion?

            What is the multicultural compromise between our current system of near absolute free expression, and their system of restriction on speech which they consider blasphemous? SOMEONE is going to be unhappy no matter what you decide. So who gets their way? How would you adjudicate this?

            I really do want an answer.

            --
            Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:10AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:10AM (#187488)

              Do you accept that there are some cultures that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such?

              No.
              I accept that there are some individuals that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such.
              You are starting to look a hell of a lot like one of them advocating for this collective responsibility nonsense.

              What is the multicultural compromise between our current system of near absolute free expression, and their system of restriction on speech which they consider blasphemous?

              No compromise needed. Out of 1million+ muslims in the US, a handful have lost their shit. That's no different from any other group.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:42PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:42PM (#187334)

          Umm, hate to be so rude as to actually ask, but what tribes? Just saying "Indian" in the US, besides being colonialist, is itself multicultural.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:28PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:28PM (#187352)

            No it isn't. The 556 recognized tribes are not part of the US. They are sovereign nations that are protectorates of the US. They are by definition apart, reserved. Each one has their own government or coalition government. That is not multiculturalism but your statement is ignorant.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:23AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:23AM (#187548)

              That is not multiculturalism but your statement is ignorant.

              Evidentally your reading comprehension is in need of some improvement. This is exactly what the FA is complaining about! All these various cultures that refuse to be assimilated! Of course, anyone who is actual a Native American has probably had more than enough experience with attempt to genocide (assimilate) their people. But this is why this particular AC asks the rather palefaced Runaway exactly what tribe he is descended from. Lots of USAians claim native blood, but without specifics, that is meaningless. And certainly no evidence that you are not a racist! So, particulars? Which tribe? What band? Who are your people? And please, don't say "Cherokee" unless you can be much more specific.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:00PM (#187222)

      so you're an "american", and any foreigner should comply with your standards, right?
      I'm so glad your ancestors did this when they moved over from the old continent.
      they must have been so happy to get to a land of lazy fat couch potato red skins.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:19PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:19PM (#187241) Journal

        See my reply to Azrael. Why does everyone believe that every single European who came to this land was a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian? Is that the kind of person who still lives in Europe, so you ASSume that European settlers are just like them?

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:38PM (#187261)

          > Why does everyone believe that every single European who came to this land was a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian?

          Why do you assume that every single muslim is a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian? [soylentnews.org]

          Or is hyperbole something only permitted to you?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:24PM

      by jmorris (4844) on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:24PM (#187350)

      There is no culture on earth today that is "evil" or "wrong".

      Duckspoken like a double plus good good thinker. There is good and evil and that while there is debate about some of the details it is currently possible to reason out much of a moral code. Some cultures measure up better than others when compared to absolute standards of morality. Fucking children is wrong. There, I said it; I'm taking a boldly intolerant position on that. We can, should and must argue about the details and corner cases, age of consent laws, etc. but the idea of sex with children is right out and I think we can all agree that marrying a six year old is right over the damned line beyond any debate. So cultures that approve of that practice is evil. And when the infallible 'prophet' of a religion does it and current leaders can't imagine denouncing it, in fact is now trying it's best to restore the practice, we should question any who fail to condemn and certainly any who try to apologize and distract attention from such barbaric practices.

      Or take NAMBLA, who has the motto of 'Sex before eight or it is too late.' This is a culture we can say with absolute certainty is vile, evil and must be exterminated from the Earth.

      Ok, two very extreme examples but the cultural equivalence theory is a cherished fallacy of the Prog left and it must be demolished utterly. For by refusing to admit the existence of evil, it facilitates it and is thus itself evil.

      People are intrinsically good...

      Which is one of the basic disagreements in political philosophy. My side holds that man is inherently wicked, vile, and prone to commit atrocities, in short: fallen. Which is why we have religions, civilizations, rule of law, social customs and all that stuff to reign in our base impulses. The other side believes man in inherently good, removes all restraints and when Hell on Earth is unleashed makes excuses that it was done improperly, latent *ism was to blame, blah blah blah.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:03PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:03PM (#187371)

        People are intrinsically good...

        Which is one of the basic disagreements in political philosophy. My side holds that man is inherently wicked, vile, and prone to commit atrocities

        We see ourselves in others.
        Or more colloquial, takes one to know one.

        Seriously, you seem unapologetically vile, your posting history on this topic is one of someone just itching for a race war.

  • (Score: 2) by BK on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM

    by BK (4868) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM (#187208)

    OK. I see that some of us are just too floored at the audacity of this post to contribute coherent replies. But when you're ready, reply here with them.

    Proposed: Multiculturalism, Cultural Relativism, and Open Borders have been successful and beneficial national policies. Is there any evidence to support this?

    --
    ...but you HAVE heard of me.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:02PM (#187224)

      The American technology industry, especially Silicon Valley, is a fantastically diverse place in terms of the cultural backgrounds of the people who work there. Same with Hollywood and the New York fashion industry.

      Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Apple's Steve Jobs, and Oracle's Larry Page were all adopted kids who had no contact with their biological parents until well after they had become famous in business. Jobs' biological father was a Syrian-American Muslim! Now the company his son created has a market cap almost 20x the GDP of Syria.

      The willingness to accept immigrants from all over the world has always been one of the USA's biggest economic strengths. So Germany might do better than the USA when it comes to building reliable autos, for example, but they can't keep up with the USA in industries such as IT, which are driven by fashion as well as by engineering. And many if not most industries are becoming increasingly driven by software these days.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:13PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:13PM (#187237)

        sorry, s/Larry Page/Larry Ellison/

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:54PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:54PM (#187277)

        The American technology industry, especially Silicon Valley, is a fantastically diverse place in terms of the cultural backgrounds of the people who work there.

        No, it's not. There's a bunch of people complaining that it's NOT diverse enough, because there's so few black or hispanic people there. Apparently, all the Asians and Indians don't count.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:06PM (#187226)

      Proposed: Multiculturalism, Cultural Relativism, and Open Borders have been successful and beneficial national policies. Is there any evidence to support this?

      The economics literature generally finds a positive, but small, gain in income to native-born populations from immigrants and potentially large gains in world incomes. But immigrants can also impact a recipient nation’s institutions. A growing empirical literature supports the importance of strong private property rights, a rule of law, and an environment of economic freedom for promoting long-run prosperity. But little is known about how immigration impacts these institutions. This paper empirically examines how immigration impacts a nation’s policies and institutions. We find no evidence of negative and some evidence of positive impacts in institutional quality as a result of immigration.
      -- Does immigration impact institutions? [cato.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:20PM (#187243)

      You might have heard of my my wife's friend Anousheh Ansari, [wikipedia.org] founder of the Ansari X-Prize. [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 1) by fritsd on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:44PM

    by fritsd (4586) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:44PM (#187211) Journal

    I just want to say: kudos to ethanol-fueled for supplying an interesting article for discussion that hopefully won't "devolve into sophistry" on a laden topic like this.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:31PM (#187354)

      Well, it is the internet. Either it is inane, inflammatory, citable, or sophistry.

  • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:57PM

    by fritsd (4586) on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:57PM (#187217) Journal

    I liked the comparison between multiculturalism (DE, UK) and assimilationism (FR).

    TFA says: we in Europe have to "renew our civil society".

    Sounds great.

    Anybody any idea how??

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:08PM

    by bradley13 (3053) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:08PM (#187227) Homepage Journal

    I see that most comment reflexively disagree with the article. Step back, allow yourself to be non-PC for a minute, and consider: There are lots of cultures in the world, some compatible with each other, others not so much. If you tell me that the Irish and Polish immigrants get along pretty will in the UK, I'll agree with you. A few people may not, because people are fundamentally tribal creatures, but by and large the cultures fit together well enough.

    The thing is: Political Correctness today says that *any* two cultures ought to get along. And that is just wrong. As Reginal Bretnor once wrote, many years ago, most of us have swallowed several Great Simple Myths. Among these are:

    - All cultures everywhere are of equal value: all they need is for us to understand them.

    - Given any opportunity, any culture - no matter how retarded, vicious, or how apparently opposed to everything we ourselves consider good and true and beautiful - will (what a lovely word!) emerge into the glorious light of civilization.

    - Therefore there are no savage nations, no backward nations, no nations that need more than government by their own leaders...

    The only trouble with these pretty myths is that they are unadulterated bullshit.

    All peoples everywhere do not want peace - if by peace we mean peace fo all other peoples everywhere. Many individual men and women find war exciting; many are sadistic; many are susceptible to the exhortations of the inordinately ambitious, the fanatical, the lunatic. If the great majority really and actively wanted peace, there'd be no problem.

    All peoples everywhere do not have democratic aspirations. Many of them still want to kill their neighbors, rob their neighbors, enslave their neighbors, or even serve their neighbors up for supper.

    All cultures are most certainly not of equal value - and the more clearly we understand them, the more obvious that becomes...

    Therefore all peoples, and all nations, are not equal. All cannot be trusted equally, either with the powers inherent in science and technology or with absolute sovereignty. One reason that the UN is an almost total failure is because it is based on the assumption that - except where size is concerned - they are.

    I submit the fundamentalist Islamic culture is one such example. We might be happy to "live and let live", but they are not. There are other examples as well.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:28PM (#187254)

      > I see that most comment reflexively disagree with the article.

      I see that you did not actually read the Foreign Affairs article and instead have indulged in exactly what you accuse others of doing. The central principle of the article being that examples like yours of polish and irish "getting along" is itself profoundly ignorant of history. People just like you have been saying exactly the opposite of that when there weren't any brown people around to scapegoat.

      > As Reginal Bretnor once wrote,

      Some unknown sci-fi author from an age in which racism was the natural order of things is hardly a convincing citation unless all you are looking for is rationalization.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:53PM (#187275)

        All peoples everywhere do not have democratic aspirations. Many of them still want to kill their neighbors, rob their neighbors, enslave their neighbors,

        OK, OK!! But let's leave the Italians out of this.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:35PM (#187359)

        Your post is hostile, but provides nothing else. It is like a dinner consisting of a cup and a plate filled with salt.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:01PM (#187369)

          OP's post was the hostile one.

          Just a bunch of unsupported assertions by somebody with no credibility on the topic? Why should anyone care?

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:37PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:37PM (#187260)

      fundamentalist Islamic culture

      You could cross out the "Islamic" part and be equally accurate; our own christian nut-jobs aren't any more civilized than their nut-jobs. Never fails to amaze me how similar barbarians are across the globe.

      Its pretty unusual for a religion's "strongest supporters" not to make asses out of themselves. I raised a lot of hell in a comparative world religion class many years (decades?) ago by suggesting that given the 9 or 7 or whatever things that make up a religion, you need another which is a "real religion" requires a fundamentalist class that makes the rest of the adherents look bad. That got me lots of sneers from the fundies in my class, LOL.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:59PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:59PM (#187281)

        You could cross out the "Islamic" part and be equally accurate; our own christian nut-jobs aren't any more civilized than their nut-jobs. Never fails to amaze me how similar barbarians are across the globe.

        Mostly true, except that today's Christian nut-jobs aren't generally very violent. The reasons for this are debatable though: maybe it's because if they became violent, the uber-violent US police would crush them so quickly they just don't bother. The US's recent history with cults has not been pretty (Waco etc.), whereas in places like lawless Iraq and Syria, fundie cults are able to grow due to the power vacuum.

        Anyway, the OP is correct: fundie Christianity and fundie Islam are themselves cultures, and are proof that some cultures simply are incompatible and are completely uncivilized.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by BK on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM

        by BK (4868) on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:35PM (#187304)

        fundamentalist Islamic culture

        You could cross out the "Islamic" part and be equally accurate; our own christian nut-jobs aren't any more civilized than their nut-jobs

        You could cross out the fundamentalist part too. And should. Fundamentalist is the person. Islamic (or maybe christian if you want to try that one) is the culture.

        American and European Cultures are Secular and State-ist based on Christian values. But the idea that it is "best" that the state not be the church is a core value of these cultures. There are Christian fundamentalists, but they are tolerated only to a certain degree. We take a dim view when the priest or pastor tells us how to vote or tries to make laws.

        Modern Islamic culture was founded by a guy(*, **) who merged his church and his state. Who celebrated this fact. Who said that his way of running all of society was best [islamicthinkers.com] and that the rules of his time should be followed for all time. The Islamic religion was founded in conquest. The Islamic religion was used by its founder to recruit warriors and encourage them to seek martyrdom. The fundamentalists that Islamic cultures tolerate are consequently very different than the Christian ones. Muslims tolerate fundamentalists who attack others in the name of religion. They tolerate those who SEEK martyrdom. They tolerate those whose aim is to cause open conflict.

        So the the culturally incompatible bit we run into in the context of this discussion is "Islamic" vs. "Secular". Keep it straight.

        * The guy is question is celebrated for being a child rapist [wikipedia.org]. Oh, I agree, the guy was a product of his time and this abuse has been tolerated by barbaric and backward peoples and cultures. He is not unique. But the idea of the "purity" and appropriateness of this relationship is celebrated by Islamic cultures into modern times.

        ** Amusingly, illustrating this activity would offend both the Islamics (since they fear that they might worship this image [cnn.com] given the chance) and the Statists (because it's a sex act on a child). I want a royalty check if Charlie Hebdo uses this for their next cover.

        --
        ...but you HAVE heard of me.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Non Sequor on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:51PM

    by Non Sequor (1005) on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:51PM (#187271) Journal

    News at 11.

    --
    Write your congressman. Tell him he sucks.
  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:57PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:57PM (#187278)

    I see so many upvoted posts agreeing with e-fueled's spin on the linked stories.

    But after actually reading the only story of substance in the summary, [foreignaffairs.com] it seems like none of you paid any attention. I guess Soylent News is people, illiterate people.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:57PM (#187319)

      We are all posting about the keywords in the headline. Nobody but the editors reads the submission itself. Certainly, nobody at all follows the links.

      Multiculturalism. Experiments. Failed. GO!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:02PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:02PM (#187323)

    Multiculturalism really doesn't work when they themselves are racist against those different than them.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PinkyGigglebrain on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:51PM

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:51PM (#187336)

    I have kept this link for just such a discussion.

    http://www.frostywooldridge.com/articles/art_how_to_destroy_america_2003.html [frostywooldridge.com]

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:23PM (#187376)

      Lamm said. "First, turn America into a bilingual or multi lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures

      So he starts off with something disproven by our closest neighboring country?
      Canada has totally self-destructed. Yeah right.
      Or what about Switzerland? They speak at least 4 languages.
      India has got a tonoffic of languages and they are the biggest democracy on the planet.
      China also has a ton of languages, they aren't doing too bad either.

      That guy is just presenting his bigotry as facts. Anyone taking him seriously isn't doing much critical thinking.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:56AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @07:56AM (#187906)

        Merde!

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday May 25 2015, @01:10AM

      by isostatic (365) on Monday May 25 2015, @01:10AM (#187439) Journal

      If this immigration monster isn't stopped within three years, it will rage across the United States like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially the American Dream.

      So here we are, 12 years later....

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday May 25 2015, @07:03PM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2015, @07:03PM (#187697) Journal

        Well, the "American Dream" has been pretty much destroyed by growing populations and rising income equality, with barriers to success. Corporations also have a lot to do with that destruction. And so does increasing centralized control. I don't see "multiculturalism" as much of an actor in the process, however.

        OTOH, a society is probably a lot stronger if it has general agreement on what its basic goals and purposes are. Unfortunately when there's a large income disparity, the wealthy and powerful don't agree with the less wealthy and less powerful about what reasonable goals are. In previous times "the frontier" was an escape valve, and anyone too dissatisfied with the current powers could just leave. Now, however, that's not possible. (And you could ask the Amerind tribes what they thought of the prior arrangement, if you want to suggest leaving for some other country as a reasonable alternative.)

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @12:39AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @12:39AM (#187429)

    Multicultural in the US seems to mean Americans accept any and all practices, customs and values of all other cultures while suppressing our own. Ever seen a middle eastern female remove her head covering out of respect for American values? Probably nobody wants her to, anyway. But let a western female show up in the middle east and she damn well better conform to the local practices!

    Not that I really give a shit but the hypocrisy is amazing.