posted by
janrinok
on Wednesday July 01 2015, @08:39PM
from the they-are-thinking-of-the-children! dept.
from the they-are-thinking-of-the-children! dept.
The BBC reports
Cuba has successfully eliminated mother-to-child transmission of both HIV and syphilis, the World Health Organization (WHO) says. The head of the WHO, Dr Margaret Chan, called it one of the greatest public health achievements possible. It follows years of efforts to give pregnant women early access to prenatal care, testing and drugs to stop these diseases passing from mother to child.
...
In Cuba, according to the available official data, less than 2% of children whose mothers have HIV are born with the virus - the lowest rate possible with the available prevention methods.
Untreated, they have a 15-45% chance of transmitting the virus to their children during pregnancy, labour, delivery or breastfeeding.
Kudos to Cuba!
Original Submission
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Cuba Cuts Mother-to-Child HIV Transmissions to 2%
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 36 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ikanreed on Wednesday July 01 2015, @08:53PM
I read something recently, though it may have been propaganda, by a retired Cuban doctor. I lost my original link, but I can find other [sweetness-light.com] sources [cubaverdad.net] making similar claims pretty easily.
So, the background here is that Cuba has an extremely(almost impossibly) low infant mortality rate. And they consider it a point of national pride.
But it's a lie. Their government pressures doctors to label infant deaths as miscarriages, abortions, or just not record them at all. And they're pressured to abort pregnancies that might have problems. And then the national statistics get fudged further before being reported.
I don't know if I believe the stories, as ex-pats often have a grudge to settle, but having read about it is enough for me to have my doubts about this story as well.
(Score: 3, Informative) by boristhespider on Wednesday July 01 2015, @09:20PM
I don't know why people have modded you Flamebait. They may disagree, which is their prerogative, and they may think you're an idiot (also their prerogative), but I can't see that this is flamebait by any stretch of the word.
(Score: 3, Informative) by fnj on Thursday July 02 2015, @01:23AM
And now you in turn have become the victim of imbecile moderators.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday July 02 2015, @05:18AM
And now you in turn have become the victim of imbecile moderators.
Or, you have become the beneficiary of enlightened moderators trying to save you from you own stupidity. If you do not notice a difference between the two, that means it is the latter (that means, second option, enlightened moderators, if you do not understand the whole "former" versus "latter" distinction thing). So carry on. Any chance anyone here is Marco Rubio? Or just Marco? (Polo!). I am really starting to suspect that Gov. LePage is a Soylentil. But just think if the United States put it's defense budget into public health. DARPA would be Medical something Research Public something, and the US could beat Cuba in the race for health! Ah, just a dream, like Bacardi Rum getting it's land back so it can exploit peasants again, just like in the old days!
(Score: 4, Funny) by VLM on Wednesday July 01 2015, @09:37PM
less than 2% of children whose mothers have HIV are born with the virus
But how would that work in practice, if its a percentage of HIV kids and not a total number of HIV kids.
I guess they could fudge the HIV kids stats for a couple years, but eventually someone is going to start asking questions when 99% of pediatric cuban aids patients are assigned IV drug use or gay sex as the cause of their HIV infection, yet the sick kids are only like 4.
Its believable they'd want to fudge the numbers as much as an American MBA businessman, but it looks like it would be super difficult to keep the numbers fudged in the long run.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Thursday July 02 2015, @02:07AM
But how would that work in practice,
Abort those kids that would have been born with HIV?
The wording is pretty vague, and apparently the only criteria is on the words "are born".
The real miracle here is probably western drugs, imported somehow, or manufactured in-country with (justifiable IMHO) disregard of any patents that might exit. 9 months worth of anti-virals followed by no-breast feeding is how this is accomplished in most western countries.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @07:00AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the US boycott of Cuba means that US medical companies are not allowed - by US law - to take out patents in Cuba.
(Score: 2) by Jiro on Thursday July 02 2015, @06:11AM
Even if it is actually true, it proves very little. Dictatorships, not being subject to the free market, can always pick one arbitrary facet of their society, spend disproportionately on it even if their overall economy is a shambles, and point to its success as evidence of the great benefits of their dictatorship. That's part of the reason (aside from massive cheating with steroids) why East Germany got such successes at the Olympics, for instance, and why North Korea can build huge architectural projects.
(Score: 2) by monster on Friday July 03 2015, @05:17PM
It may be a shock to you, but Cuba has free elections, and even candidates of the opposition [foxnews.com] recognising them to be fair.
It's not so black and white as it's usually shown.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by M. Baranczak on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:06PM
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:15PM
But we should trust the US government, right?
(Score: 5, Informative) by edIII on Wednesday July 01 2015, @11:05PM
While you bring up a good point, in the ol' US of A, numbers have been flat out ignored by Big Pharma for greater profits. My country is not completely innocent, or without blemish on its medical community.
So I must seriously question, without any intended hyperbole whatsoever, how the fuck can we trust any numbers in the US?
Cuba may have issues with us arising out of the age old argument about Communism, but it was the WHO [who.int] (Thx Geotti) that validated their numbers. Not to mention, aside from statistics, Cuba is singled out by the WHO as a positive example of a world leader in health care, and example for the rest of the world.
Since Cuba has been locked out of the rest of the world, it put up a lot of resources and effort to create the best medical system it could, under the circumstances. As a result, preventative care and quality of life is substantially higher than that of the US. Something seen when health care costs are a tiny fraction of the same commensurate costs of a U.S citizen, and prevention is emphasized above treatment.
Yes, Cuba isn't perfect, and there are, and have been, shortages of medical supplies. None of that takes away from the achievements in R&D. As it is the WHO, that is supporting and backing up the scientific and medical claims of Cuba, I'm going to give them a little benefit of the doubt.
For the record, Cuba has the highest number of physicians per capita - 59 per 10,000 people.
I'm cynical, but that's an awful lot of talk from many countries praising Cuba that have no reason to praise Cuba.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday July 02 2015, @04:44AM
Are you sure about that? Cuba has one of the most tightly controlled news outlets in the world and people going there to study the system aren't going to have free access to the locals unless it's complimentary to the efforts the government is making.
That's not to say that they aren't doing things right, just that you need to be really careful about promoting something that could well be propaganda. Especially when the research is being done by individuals that are beholden to the government. It's not even remotely the same as in the US.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Thursday July 02 2015, @05:01AM
But..but...they're commies. They can't possibly have better health care than 'mericans. So they must be making up the info. Right...?
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:19PM
Doubts are reasonable.
My government has always harped on how very hellish life is under communism. Every communist country in the world is comparable to Dante's Inferno. Meanwhile, Cuba has been exporting mercenaries and doctors around the world for just about all of my life. Propaganda is a two way thing, after all.
So, where is the truth? If Cuba is reporting accurate facts, great. If they're manipulating the facts, well, that just sucks. I don't know how to dig the facts up though.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Geotti on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:38PM
So, where is the truth? If Cuba is reporting accurate facts, great. If they're manipulating the facts, well, that just sucks. I don't know how to dig the facts up though.
Yeah, let's just give the WHO [who.int] the benefit of the doubt.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:50PM
Won't get fooled again.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 01 2015, @11:14PM
GP suggests that the WHO might have been gamed, and offers an explanation of how that might have been done. If infant deaths aren't recorded, or are written off as being due to other causes, then WHO can't really validate things very well, can they?
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday July 02 2015, @02:16AM
You might also arrive at the conclusion that WHO is generally run by third world administrators, has historically been more than a little leftist, and it owes a big debt to Cuba for their (admirable) help in the Ebola zone.
Or you can take it at face value, and realize that they are getting the same results as western countries get when they use the same methods (lots of anti-virals during pregnancy).
The price for these anti-viral drugs (even the less than newest versions) has always been high in developed countries, and the drug makers make no bones about the fact that US/EU patients are subsidizing much much lower prices in poor parts of the world.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Touché) by captain normal on Thursday July 02 2015, @05:09AM
...and the drug makers make no bones about the fact that US/EU patients are being ripped off to pad profits over the reasonable prices in poor parts of the world.
TFTFY
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Thursday July 02 2015, @01:18PM
The United States of America of today looks very much like the Soviet Union we grew up despising yesterday. Mass surveillance? Check. Sham elections? Check. Pervasive propaganda? Check. Secret courts? Check. Unlawful detentions? Check. Complete government disregard for written laws? Check. Government-sponsored torture? Check.
Old guys, am I missing anything? We don't have gulags for citizens yet, but we certainly do for illegal immigrants.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 02 2015, @01:44PM
Don't be so hasty on the gulags thing. Do yourself a favor, and google "FEMA camps". There are those who claim that the gulags have been built, they just sit empty and idle, waiting for the shit to hit the fan. I guarandamntee that I won't be "reeducated". The bastards can kill me first, if it comes to that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @05:22PM
Fox News is still pushing that "FEMA camp" nonsense? Wow. I suppose that's where all the POWs from the secret mission to conquer Texas, aka Jade Helm 15, are being sent?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday July 02 2015, @01:51PM
Speaking entirely anecdotally: My mother had a fair amount of contact with Cubans during the early 1990's as part of a religious exchange program, including a couple of visits (and no, she wasn't followed around by government minders or anything like that). This was the roughest time for Communist Cuba, because their only major trade partner, the USSR, had just collapsed, so they were stuck trying to make do on their own.
What she noticed about the medical system:
- Nobody was going really hungry. They didn't have extra food, but they did have enough, and there was a decent mix of vegetables, fruits, and grains.
- Their medical system was indeed extremely thorough: Each neighborhood had a doctor assigned, who served as the primary care physician and public health consultant for the area.
- Her hosts popped pills like it was nobody's business when they were available. For example, they'd take 4-5 aspirin when 1-2 would likely suffice.
- Neighborhood doctors at the time were trained in herbal remedies and were making use of them due to the shortage of medication. The clinic had an herb garden out front for this express purpose.
Another thing that's worth mentioning: Yes, every adult she ran into had a decent education. A lot of the anti-Castro exiles claim that the Cubans are lying about that too, but there was no sign of a large population of illiterate people out there.
Other sources like the CIA World Factbook [cia.gov] (not likely to be a pro-Castro source, if the phrase "Bay of Pigs" means anything) basically match the WHO's findings, which combined with the direct impressions suggests that yes, Cuba's medical system is actually quite good. None of this is surprising, because Fidel Castro's biggest domestic goals were improving education and medicine, and his government (and Che Guevara in particular) put a lot of time and resources into doing just that starting within a few months of the revolution.
There are very real problems with the Castro regime, but in general the average Cuban is much much better off than a lot of the counterparts in other nearby countries such as Haiti, Jamaica, Honduras, and Mexico.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Informative) by gnuman on Wednesday July 01 2015, @11:21PM
Seems to be lower than US?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate [wikipedia.org]
I don't understand your comment though. Is this some kind of "penis envy" or something? It seems to be nothing but propaganda from the "expats" and/or "commie haters" that have nothing constructive except hate.
Cuban healthcare system is very good. It's provided free to every Cuban. There is no cases of mother's unable to access a doctor because of financial or logistical reasons - in Cuba they actually do house visits. So if they cut transmission down to 2%, that's good for them.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday July 01 2015, @11:52PM
Do you really consider those two sites "sources" of anything but right-wing anti-Cuba propaganda?
The BBC is bogus, but cubaverdad.net and sweetness-light.com are reliable?
If push comes to shove, I can find a "source" that claims vaccines cause autism, too. You have to be a little more discerning than that.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday July 02 2015, @01:14PM
No, I don't. Sorry if I implied I did.
My original story, I think, was on medium, a long-form journalism site that's a little less uncredible.
I recognize those as possible propoganda, even more so than the original thing I read.
(Score: 1) by GDX on Thursday July 02 2015, @12:00AM
It's better to only half believe it. I'm sure that the statics are fudged but not that as much as some want it to appear, it easier to fudge a little with a statistics without anyone noticing that to really alter it and if the statistics where really altered I'm sure that the information indicating it had been more prevalent that some anecdotal noticies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @06:07AM
Your source is a right-wing Cuban exile group. Yeah, it is propaganda.
Those folks claim that baby is, "the other white meat," in Cuba.
Cuba's health care system from the neighborhood clinics, to their pharmaceutical industry is amazing. They are first responders in natural disasters around the globe (for the recent ebola crisis, Cuba sent large numbers of doctors and other medical personnel while the US sent their military). They train medical doctors free of charge from around the globe. Their pharmaceutical industry is responsible for drugs that treat illnesses common in poor populations which wouldn't be touched by the [soylent spam filter prevented mentioning a libido enhancing drug that starts with 'V' and rhymes with Niagra] producing Western pharmaceutical companies. Their domestic health outcomes are better than most countries with far more means.
In light of all of Cuba's medical successes, the claim in TFA is completely believable.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @07:07AM
> for the recent ebola crisis, Cuba sent large numbers of doctors and other medical personnel while the US sent their military
"From each according to his ability".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 03 2015, @02:55PM
If you want a medical statistic that makes cuba look good and which you cannot claim a lie, just look at the number of doctors cuba sent to fight ebola. More than any other nation and cuba is just a small island.
I know people from the US who have travelled to Cuba for medical treatments they could not afford to get at home.
So it's not all smoke and mirrors.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 01 2015, @09:37PM
In America we don't have sex with our kids, so, like, whatever, Cuba.
(Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Wednesday July 01 2015, @09:40PM
Hey AC you do know the history of the Catholic church in Cuba, right? Castro wasn't exactly a huge fan. I bet there's been more "action" in NYC than Havana, for example.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 01 2015, @10:09PM
Was your parish priest your mother?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @05:27AM
No, but the Parish priest fucked your mother and your father and you. So you are the child of the parish priest your mother and you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02 2015, @12:25PM
Classy, Ethanol.