Windows Phone isn’t going away.
You might think it was doomed, following Microsoft’s reorganization of its phone business just days ago, especially after Microsoft wrote down the value of the business. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella put those fears to rest, however, in an interview with ZDNet’s Mary Jo Foley.
Nadella has emphasized, time and again, that his goal is for Microsoft to establish new product categories that partners can build upon. In the phone business, however, partners haven’t followed Microsoft’s lead.
Nadella seems to be fine with that. “If there are a lot of OEMs, we’ll have one strategy. If there are no OEMs, we’ll have one strategy,” Nadella said of Windows Phone's future. Microsoft seems content to go it alone, or if a hardware partner like HTC or Samsung commits to the platform, that’s fine too.
Nadella has previously characterized Windows 10 as an operating system that straddles multiple hardware platforms: the desktop PC, the notebook, the tablet, the phone, the Surface Hub, HoloLens, and the Xbox. The market hasn't really bought this story so far, at least where Windows phones are concerned.
[...]
Still, we now know this: Microsoft’s in phones for the long haul. And that’s reassuring both to fans of the platform and to those who are keeping an eye on Microsoft’s long-term vision for Windows 10.
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Bill Gates has said that he thinks everyone would be using Windows Mobile right now and not Android if it weren't for his distractions and the antitrust investigation that his company got caught into.
"There's no doubt that the antitrust lawsuit was bad for Microsoft, and we would have been more focused on creating the phone operating system and so instead of using Android today you would be using Windows Mobile," Gates claimed during his speech at The New York Times' DealBook Conference.
[...] Microsoft cofounder also revealed that the company was almost launching Windows Mobile on a Motorola handset but missed out on it by a few months, giving Android an unbeatable advantage. While there were a lot of factors, Gates says it's this 3-months delay that led to Android's supremacy and the downfall of any mobile efforts by Microsoft.
"We were just three months too late on a release Motorola would have used on a phone, so yes it's a winner takes all game."
Related:
Nadella: Microsoft Isn't Killing Windows Phone and Will Go It Alone
Steve Balmer: Use Android to Save Windows Phone
Microsoft Breaks its Windows 10 Mobile Upgrade Promise
Microsoft Axes 2,850 More Windows Phone, Sales Staff
Windows Phone Dies, Aged 6
It's Been 5 Years Already, Let's Gawp at Microsoft and Nokia's Bloodbath
Microsoft is Embracing Android as the Mobile Version of Windows
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Wednesday July 15 2015, @07:59PM
is in it for the long haul too.
Just sayin'!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Informative) by WillR on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:02PM
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:10PM
Yeah, Windoze Phone was never alive to begin with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:50AM
Microsoft Isn't Killing Windows Phone
Of course not; not yet at least. They need time to catch their breath because they just killed Nokia phones.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:03PM
The 2 other Windows Phone owners beyond Paul Thurrott must be jizzing themselves with this news.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:11PM
How dare you! There are at least 5 Windoze Phone users!!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Tork on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:40PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:55PM
If there needs to be competition it should be from someone more competent than Micro$hit.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:17PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:23PM
I'd rather see Sailfish or something like it succeed more than another pile of proprietary shit from Micro$hit.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:29PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:58AM
Yes, they are lacking certain resources (such as cash, reputation, market penetration, etc) but Microsoft has all of those things and it's not helping them at all.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday July 16 2015, @01:17AM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:18PM
Who would be the ones with the magical combination of technical background, legal muscle, and the pocketful of cash to throw at R&D for years to make it happen?
Frankly, I'm not surprised by the news. The MS Windows 10 presentation from earlier this year had a solid chunk of it dedicated to "and here's how this integrates with your MS phone, and it's all because of ONENOTE(did we mention ONENOTE?!)." I didn't watch the whole thing, because I'm not that excited about MS crap, but it's clear that they're putting a good number of the chips in on this. It would be silly to toss it all out after that.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:21PM
It would be silly to toss it all out after that.
And yet they tossed away Windows Mobile back when it had like 10x the market share that Windows Phone does now.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:26PM
Hey, everyone makes mistakes. I do it all the time. It sucks and it's painful, and I try to learn from them and not repeat them, because sometimes they're painful.
I guess we'll have to see if MS does the same.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Thursday July 16 2015, @01:25AM
This is a good point, but personally due to Microsoft's behemoth size in the computing market, I'd rather it not be them to be a big competitor to the other two. If they actually figured out how to make a decent phone that most people wanted, we'd be back to another monopoly with them doing embrace, extend, extinguish in the phone market.
I'd like to see some good competition too, just not from MS. It's too bad RIM has mostly withered away; they even tried to make their phones compatible with Android apps, but it didn't save them.
I'm hoping that alternative Android firmwares like CyanogenMod will take off, and create competition that way. As we saw with Windows on the desktop, the availability of 3rd-party apps is what really makes a platform popular, and this is likely one of the big reasons (aside from the butt-ugly UI) that WinPhone has bombed. Developers only want to support so many platforms, and MS made their totally unlike the other two, so no one bothers making any apps for it because it's too much effort for too few users. But alternative Android firmwares don't have this problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @02:05AM
> Am I the only one that wants to see Microsoft attain at least some success with these phones? I'd like Google and Apple to have some competition.
(1) I own a bunch of windows phones (520 and 521) because I could pick them up for $20 brand new and I needed a bunch of distinct phone numbers. I actually like using them because the UI is fast and smooth and, other than the lack of firefox, are sufficient for my needs.
(2) The problem is the kind of competition - MS is just doing "more of the same." App-store, tracking the shit out of you, locked down firmware, etc. Improvements to the UI are an insufficient value proposition to overcome the fact that whole philosophy remains identical.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday July 16 2015, @06:27AM
MS is just doing "more of the same." App-store, tracking the shit out of you, locked down firmware, etc. Improvements to the UI are an insufficient value proposition to overcome the fact that whole philosophy remains identical.
Nokia produced a Windows phone that was three-quarters digital camera.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 4, Informative) by TheRaven on Thursday July 16 2015, @08:25AM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @02:53PM
> Nokia produced a Windows phone that was three-quarters digital camera.
Judging a product line by its oddball step children doesn't provide much insight.
95% by model and 99.99% by sales volume, Nokia/MS winphone is just more of the same.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday July 16 2015, @11:11PM
Yes, you are the only one. The reason for that is that Microsoft does not compete. Locking out the competition through a closed ecosystem instead of providing features and support that users want is their method of gaining market share.
Another significant competitor in the market might be good news for smartphone buyers, but not Microsoft.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday July 16 2015, @11:34PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by el_oscuro on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:30AM
I met an ACTUAL windows phone in the wild a few years ago. Of course she retired to go live on her ranch.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:39PM
Has anyone ever done any scientific research to determine how long you must beat a dead horse, before it will jump up and run?
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:10PM
Why do you think they keep renewing the Simpsons?
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:34PM
I always assumed it got cancelled years ago, but still occupies the slot because of some sort of software glich in payroll or something that no one has noticed yet.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:59PM
Nope, still going strong.
In fact, there was an outcry about its lack of diversity so the writers retconned Smithers into a Black man. [cinemablend.com]
Look for his new Black debut in the new episode Smithers' Struggle this coming Sunday.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday July 15 2015, @10:39PM
It WAS somewhat over-representing the populace that was #FFFF00, I guess.
Of course, the Simpsons still being on is somewhat over-representing how entertaining the Simpsons is, but I guess people will watch anything long as it's familiar to them.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:39AM
I haven't watched it recently, but the doctor and one of the cops are #966F33 guys, and they seemed to be the most normal.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:39PM
I see Nadella doing a lot of random things. Open source for some of their stuff, catchy slogans, and so on. What I don't see is an overall strategy. What is he trying to accomplish? I gave him time, and the benefit of the doubt having to do things like write off Nokia, but other than firing people, where is he going? I've read some of the e-mails and press releases Nadella has written, and they're complete gibberish. He seems unable to express himself clearly. How did he become a CEO, anyway?
The #1 problem MS has is opportunity cost. Why should I spend time developing for their dead-end, also-ran, never-has-been mobile platform when the same amount of time could be spent improving mobile platforms people actually use? I have seen no answer to this vital question. Until MS gives me a reason to support their loser platform, I am going to keep adding features to apps for winning platforms. Until MS answers this question, they can forget about anything else. And the answer is not some gibberish about OEMs and strategy.
The #2 problem MS has is they want people to develop apps for their me-too, Apple-like ecosystem. Business apps are being developed for the browser. Why should a business app create workflows on MS devices when they can just code them for the web using the MVC framework of the week? I see no compelling answer for investing in MS platforms, especially considering #1. Most business workflows are boring, and work great on the web. MS even has their own ASP.NET with an MVC to give businesses what they want. An app store for Windows is too little, too late because the business world has already settled on the web. Sure, consumer-oriented app developers may write for app stores, but that goes back to #1. Why be the best app in MS's loserville when you can have apps for platforms people actually use? MS needs to figure out what they are, and focus. Are they an app store company? If so, they need to kill off web-based development asap. Are they a back-end database company? If so, they need to give up app stores, open source their development platform stack, and sell SQL Server instances.
I'm not seeing MS's plan of attack here to get relevant again. All the random moves don't add up to anything. OEMs will put Windows 10 on desktops because they have to, and a few like Dell have Windows tablets that they'll upgrade, but this isn't going to drive sales unless there is some reason to buy these platforms. For MS to hit a home run, they have to have a compelling reason to develop for their platform instead of Apple or Android.
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 2) by WillR on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:19PM
What I don't see is an overall strategy. What is he trying to accomplish? I gave him time, and the benefit of the doubt having to do things like write off Nokia, but other than firing people, where is he going?
I think he's making a statement that the Nokia deal was Ballmer's mistake. By writing off the big losses and firing people now, before Windows 10 launches, he's hoping investors and the board will judge him for the success or failure of Win10 rather than for failing to make something useful out of the bones of Nokia.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @11:08PM
I own a windows phone and have found that the lack of apps is a feature. I want a mostly simple system and with Android there are so many little tiny apps for a single purpose (E.G. Find a train in city X) that I really don't need. I actually like the focus the MS phone gives. That being said, I also tend to do most of my work on a computer and don't live on my phone. If I was to interpret what Microsoft is doing, I would guess they are trying to make it so that the experience is less about have millions of little nearly useless apps and having a smaller group of well written apps on well built hardware. In regards to hardware, I hope they mostly go it alone rather than having the insanity of Android. I actually see Microsoft in the middle of the "Open"Android and the "Closed" iPhone.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Wednesday July 15 2015, @11:49PM
To paraphrase, Windows phone has few apps, and if they are shitty, oh well.
Please use Windows phone: MS pays me to shill poo!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:09AM
So what's your position at Microsoft?
(Score: 3, Funny) by arslan on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:58AM
the lack of apps is a feature
Hahahahaha... lololol... that made my morning..
(Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Thursday July 16 2015, @01:29AM
You've got to be kidding: lack of apps is a feature? That's some real spin there.
If you don't want to install and use some weird little Android app, it's simple: don't! No one is forcing you to load up your phone with a bunch of random apps. But, just like Windows on the desktop has countless weird little apps, everyone has some weird little app they really need or use a lot, even though it's not the same set of apps that other people use. Having it available is what makes the platform useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @02:42PM
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:41PM
As much as I'd like to Microsoft as a whole die a painful death, competition is good. If Microsoft can make a mobile OS that can be installed on the same hardware as Android phones, that would be great. It would encourage manufacturers to create good hardware with unlocked bootloaders. It would help push Microsoft create an OS that people would *want* to use, rather than one that they must install that's effectively a tax. It would encourage Android to stay competitive as well.
Office
All of this is unlikely of course, but is possible. Just as Linux is to Wintel hardware, Windows Phone could be to Android hardware. It would have to be stable, fast, secure, and ideally not be a crippled walled-garden. Ideally it would be at least as open as Android, but That may be reaching a bit.
I'm not sure that would ever happen, as the only reason I can see Microsoft wanting to get into the mobile business is to help its Office lock-in, which its already working on with the Android and iOS apps. There can't be a lot of money in the actual phone OS and hardware. Apple wants to sell people expensive hardware (and get their cut of the walled garden). Google wants to web to be open so they can display ads, and they want to gather data to target them well. I would assume that MS would want to either sell its OS or Office products. If it had a mobile OS that in addition to be a good mobile computing platform, was the *best* mobile Office platform, they might attract some business from the 'enterprise' folks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:57PM
It would encourage manufacturers to create good hardware with unlocked bootloaders.
Unless you can show how that would that allow the manufacturer to sell substantially more phones, there's no reason to believe it would have that effect at all. And, no, the .001% of people who care about unlocked bootloaders are not a substantial market.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Thursday July 16 2015, @02:33AM
Good hardware is good hardware, and with easy installers (they do exist), a quality phone could be sold that would let people choose Android, Windows Mobile, Ubuntu Phone, or other. Basically the same sort of way that many people (yes, developers mostly) will buy a MacBook to run Linux on. There are also a few (mostly non-developers, that I've seen) that will install Windows on a MacBook.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:56PM
If Microsoft can make a mobile OS that can be installed on the same hardware as Android phones, that would be great.
We must keep in mind that MS's business model is different from ones that Apple and Google use. Microsoft must sell software because they have no other sources of income. They do not sell overpriced fashion items like Apple does. They do not tie their products into a planet-wide ad network as Google does. Microsoft may afford to offer a few products for free, like they do with Express tools or this Win10 for R-Pi, but in the end they need revenue to feed all the crowd in Redmond. Those monies can come only from the customers. How many customers want to pay for something if the competing product is free?
I believe that MS will pay dearly for this detour into mobile. MS is simply not competent to develop a mobile OS. Strange, but those are the facts. Apple did it; Google did it; even Palm people did it in their time. But MS struggles with those designs since WinCE - and they never produced something that people wanted to use. MS specializes in large, massive, complex software like Exchange or other roles of Windows Server. Windows alone is a huge project - and it generally works. Apparently it takes different thinking to produce small software for small devices. It may be that MS simply does not have the necessary talent.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday July 15 2015, @08:42PM
That doesn't follow MS's history with phones. We'll believe it when we see it. They wouldn't be in this spot if they didn't 404 their previous phone's marketplaces and support. Nobody wants a smartphone that not only has few apps but the entire app store could cease to exist unexpectedly. Developing for them sucked too because each device was a different build target. I don't know how this latest generation is/was though, they could have improved. If it is still around in a few years i'll take a look.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:04PM
...but then I already found lots of hate already, so I'll just post something thoughtful instead.
In Windows10, which will be available for ARM too (free for Raspberry, for example), you will have to develop an app just once, and export it into a variety of platforms, including the desktop, the arm, and the mobile, and some other minor things I guess. I can certainly see a strategy here.
Them declaring that Windows Phone isn't going to die is a clear signal to the business market (I'll get to that soon) that they're safe. It's a good thing to do, I guess.
Microsoft has all the resources to take their time to prepare the Windows10 move, because:
1. They're relevant in the desktop/laptop matket - their OS is preinstalled on virtually all consumer/office hardware sold; also virtually every office worker that is not in IT, knows Windows, and Windows only
2. They're relevant, surprise surprise, in the server market (OS/Office/SQL/ActiveDirectory/.NET/etc), expecially for the small-to-medium (and departments of big) business where you need SLAs and support etc. and when your MBA boss is convinced that open source sucks; expecially outside US, I think, which is the big part of business OS market.
It's not like because the've never have really penetrated one of their markets, they're in "trouble".
Just to be clear, I really think that bug- and backdoor-ridden OSes need to die, but they won't just die because one of their products didn't have as much success as the first and the second mover.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:28PM
I think the key thing here to remember is that they are talking specifically about Windows 10. So as soon as windows 11 is a thing they will kill the windows 10 market and with it all the devices. That is exactly what has happened with all their previous phones. Anyone with existing windows 8 phone applications will have to port to the new platform. It's still Windows but it cannot run apps from different versions. Each iteration of their phone OS has been like a complete rewrite. You can imagine how happy that makes developers.
Could you imagine Apple or Android pressing the reset button on their app market after each major release? Madness.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:35PM
It's not like because the've never have really penetrated one of their markets, they're in "trouble".
Its their IBM-ification. IBM used to mean all computers. Period. End of line. Kind of like "xerox" means all photocopiers or "iphone" means all smartphones today even when they're androids.
Once they started to give ground to PCs in the 80s, it was all over, bye bye mainframe other than as a joke. Once that freight train starts runnin down hill, its all over till it reaches bottom. Guess who took over from IBM as defining "computing" to the general population?
20 years from now MS might be in IBMs place today, that consulting company that used to do something with those desktop things that people used to use, as they post nostalgically on their apple iContactLens or google direct brain stem interface or whatever.
My kids have tablets at school. They don't really use desktops anymore. Maybe when they're older they'll use a web browser to log into google drive and type in term papers, but they're at the "one page essay" age now. To my son, microsoft means "xbox" and nothing else, and my daughter has no knowledge of them other than Auntie temporarily had a shitty phone with no apps till she got a real iphone. Microsoft is dead as a major force. Like IBM they'll be around till the end of time, doing consulting and whatever and there will be legacy megacorps that haven't moved to China yet that still use MS office products...
(Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday July 15 2015, @09:41PM
Portability is already a solved problem. You don't need Microsoft smoke and mirrors to achieve it.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 15 2015, @11:01PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Thursday July 16 2015, @12:42AM
In Windows10, which will be available for ARM too (free for Raspberry, for example)
Why in God's name would anybody want Windows on a Raspberry Pi? "Oh yeah, now that I've got this homebrew do-it-yourself gizmo I can fiddle with and build from the ground up, let's slap some mainstream nonconfigurable shiny interface on it!"
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2015, @04:20AM
Because they aren't a cock-gobbling faggot like you are?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2015, @10:54PM
MS wants a cut of the mobile business. Really?
Nadella can't hold a candle to Gates nor Balmer. Huh. That's sounds funny, but so true. The fucker will be remembered as the guy who steered MS into ruin.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Grishnakh on Thursday July 16 2015, @01:52AM
Ballmer already steered it into ruin.
(Score: 3, Touché) by stormreaver on Thursday July 16 2015, @03:05PM
[Nadella] will be remembered as the guy who steered MS into ruin.
So he'll be a celebrated hero in the computing industry?
(Score: 1) by dboz87 on Thursday July 16 2015, @01:29PM
With Windows 10 coming out I see Microsoft trying to do anything they can to create a seamless experience on the phone, tablet, PC, or console. They will try to tie these platforms more tightly together so when you start something on your tablet or phone, you can continue it on your desktop. Now being Microsoft they will probably fail miserably like they did with Windows 8, or try to double or triple dip for each "app". I can see a decent underlying idea if they can get out of their own way in executing it.