The administrator of AE News (an online news portal for Czech and Slovak expatriates) writes a very revealing article regarding the Windows 10 collection of user data. Here is the original Czech article. Here is a Bing translation to English. Here is a English condensed version translated by a blogger. And finally a PDF of the original Czech article.
In the post the AE News administrator states:
With the advent of Windows 10, I decided to undergo several tests. The collected knowledge for someone may be alarming. The Windows operating system 10 is essentially the end terminal, more than the operating system, because many of the processes and functions of this system is directly or indirectly dependent on remote servers and databases to Microsoft.
All text typed on the keyboard is stored in temporary files, and sent (once per 30 mins) to:
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
pre.footprintpredict.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
AE News also references an arstechnica.co.uk article which states it might be impossible to stop this communication:
And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy."
arstechnica.co.uk also "asked Microsoft if there is any way to disable this additional communication or information about what its purpose is". Microsoft did not reply as to a way to disable this chatter but did respond to the 'additional communication' stating Microsoft is now 'delivering Windows 10 as a service'.
Although the original source for this story is skeptical, Smart nerds on soylentnews can easily fire up Wireshark and reveal the communication for themselves. It appears that MS has fully embraced the cloud where your OS is now a terminal. And regarding privacy? Well, according to arstechnica.co.uk: Windows 10 privacy policy is the new normal
Related Stories
Let's assume the information about the Windows 10 key logging is true.
Access to this key logger data is the holy grail in computer hacking.
A dream of every "commercial" hacker. This means you can fully automated generate Fullz each at the moment $35 USD worth.
45 mio. (of 1.5 billion, data from 11-Aug-2015, strong growing) Windows 10 systems at the moment.
The average DNS bit-flip error rate is 1 in 100,000 requests. See Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation
Here is one thought-provoking quote from that dinaburg.org article:
Some machines control considerably more traffic than others. While a bit-error in the memory of a PC or phone will only affect one user, a bit-error in a proxy, recursive DNS server, or a database cache may affect thousands of users. Bit-errors in web application caches, DNS resolvers, and a proxy server were all observed in my experiment. For instance, a bit error changing fbcdn.net to fbbdn.net led to more than a thousand Farmville players to make requests to my server.
P
And this are only 1 bit-flips. As it turned out multiple bit flips are even more common than single bit-flips.
This means at least 450 wrong DNS requests from this 45 mio. Windows 10 users. Per domain.
3 domains (nsatc.net, footprintpredict.com, microsoft.com) Wrong requests every day: (A record TTL):
nsatc.net=3 h, footprintpredict.com=0.5 h, microsoft.com=2 h == (24/3*450)+(24/0.5*450)+(24/3*450)==30,600
Not all DNS Bitquatting domains have equal value. The order of bit flipping probability is 0,6,(1+2),8,(3+13),14,12,15,(4+5),(7+9+11),10
The bit in position #0 is 100 times more likely to be flipped than one in position #10
If someone like to exact calculate what are the most likely single and multi bit-flip bitquatting names are, here: Observations on checksum errors in DNS queries are all the data you need to do this.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:12PM
I can assure you that my business will not be using windows 10 in any capacity. My content is private, proprietary, and in some cases classified.
(Score: 5, Touché) by ikanreed on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:33PM
Good job, now watch the IT bureaucracies of major corporations not give a damn.
(Score: 3, Disagree) by SomeGuy on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:43PM
Oh, they give a damn... about the kickbacks they get for deploying Windows 10.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday August 24 2015, @02:53AM
Especially if they are in a position to force the rest of us into it... such as requiring it for signing up for healthcare or processing income tax.
Noncompliant people can always be instructed to "upgrade to a supported browser" and those that do not have no way of complying with laws already on the books mandating compliance with doing certain things.
Note one can no longer go to the library or post office to get mail-in IRS tax forms anymore. I flat do not trust any of these income tax businesses to keep my affairs private... they are businessmen, and they will do whatever is allowed them to do to make a buck, and that includes sharing anything they get from us. I know the day is coming soon when I will be flat required to submit my tax to my government via some company hiding behind "hold harmless" clauses, or the internet while being forced to use insecure javascript laden servers.
I have tried to enroll for government mandated healthcare over the internet, but have yet to get an operable server that does not hang up on me and do stuff like put me in a loop or send me pages with inoperable buttons.... or worse yet, incomplete pages where certain options simply do not display at all.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 1) by dr zim on Monday August 24 2015, @02:18PM
Note one can no longer go to the library or post office to get mail-in IRS tax forms anymore
Put away the tin foil hat, sparky... you can still go to http://www.irs.gov/Forms-&-Pubs [irs.gov] and download .pdfs of any form you need and print out as many as you like.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:37PM
Don't bet on that.
Bigcorp is not all that happy about potentially incriminating data being held by others.
In fact, I could see some very deep pockets launching lawsuits against Microsoft, as well as those uppity EU agencies dragging them back into court. As for the US authorities, expect no action, Microsoft is after all, doing the governments bidding on this.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:46PM
Would be hilarious if EU required spying features to be removed from the N editions, and Microsoft offered a download to put all the spying back in. After all, you wouldn't want to use the N editions, would you? They're not feature-complete!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MrGuy on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:11PM
Tell it to the finance industry. Or the legal industry. There are DEFINITELY a large number of companies who care deeply about the privacy of the information on their own machines, and they absolutely WILL tell the IT department what to do.
Mike
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:18PM
Of course, by all means try the competition. We'll see you crawling back because You are already vendor-locked-in.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:04PM
Munich says otherwise.
Their guys have found replacements for the closed-source EULAware they had been using.
In the process, they have saved millions.
The last numbers I heard was that they are over 96 percent FOSS and mopping up the final non-FOSS bits.
(EULAs previously had them running a ridiculous IT ecosystem including 21 versions of Windoze.)
The autonomous region of Extremadura in Spain converted 80,000 boxes of their public IT infrastructure to all-FOSS in 1 weekend.
The Gendarmerie Nationale (French militarized police) have converted their 90,000 boxes to all-FOSS.
The Penn Manor school district has converted to FOSS.
The public school system of Brazil uses Linux exclusively.
It is the largest Linux deployment worldwide (500,000 seats in 2011).
Last I heard, Panasonic, Inc. was the second-largest Linux deployment at 300,000 seats.
After getting stung by the Business Software Alliance for $100,000, Ernie Ball, Inc. converted to Linux and hasn't looked back.
Regarding M$, CEO Stuart Ball has used the phrase "When pigs fly".
Sounds like the "locked-in" Windoze-only folks should be talking to the folks who have **already** shed their shackles.
-- gewg_
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:36PM
Smart nerds on soylentnews can easily fire up Wireshark and reveal the communication for themselves.
And just what are the not-so-smart nerds supposed to do? Oh, I see: not smart enough to do network analysis, but smart enough and nerdy enough (and by golly, people like them!) to not use Micro$oft in the first place!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:21PM
> And just what are the not-so-smart nerds supposed to do?
If Win10 only periodically phones home to the mothership, like just once a week, even being smart won't be enough, its going to take lots of effort to catch it in the act.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:24PM
No it doesn't. Just monitor traffic to those domains. A very simple filter.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:04PM
If your average russian botnet can use random domains so can micro$oft.
(Score: 1) by massa on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:09PM
Let me fix that for you: JUST DON'T ALLOW ANY TRAFFIC TO those domains. Blacklist them on the router. And in the hosts file.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by tftp on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:11AM
JUST DON'T ALLOW ANY TRAFFIC TO those domains.
At some point you will grab your laptop and go somewhere else. There you will connect via an open WiFi, or through your friends' WiFi, bypassing your router... and you will notice that your laptop is happily uploading tens of GB of stuff that it could not upload from your home. Or... you are using wired Ethernet at home, but your neighbor has an open WiFi. Windows may activate the wireless card (what can you do about that? there are no mechanical switches) and connect. You will never know.
It is very difficult to defend yourself because you need to close all holes, all the time, without seeing the code - whereas Windows needs only one hole, at least once. It is much safer to avoid using such an "OS". Even WinXP will be safer, with all ports closed at the built-in firewall, unless you surf the worst corners of the Internet with IE.
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:39AM
That is why my laptop is running Kali Linux: "The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @10:46AM
Despite repeated advice against it, my mother sold her soul and bought a Macbook, iPad and iPhone. Our once responsive though low Mb broadband connection instantly slowed to a crawl. The router revealed that the iShits were perpetually hogging all available bandwidth, making it barely possible to even load a web page on another computer. When I told the crapple fanboys at work they wouldn't even believe me.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:22AM
If I'm smart enough to use encryption and VPN's to bypass government censorship, then I suppose that Microsoft has probably figured that stuff out. Microsoft has been battling botnets long enough to have learned how to run one, don't you think?
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:41AM
You assume that those are the only ones. To trust that all have already been found is sort of naive. To discover new ones requires actual monitoring.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:23AM
To think the subject is prevention is odd. The subject is how to verify the stories claims easily. A filter on a traffic capture is just that. Please read in context before the ad hominems next time.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday August 24 2015, @04:10AM
You're kind of thin skinned too aren't you?
That comment was to a starting comment wherein the writer wondered what the less-than-uber-geek was to do -- I can't figure out if that poster was being sarcastic or not about avoiding MS' products.
So you see, when you responded to that blockquoted comment above with "just look at the specific cited domains", the context had nothing to do with story confirmation. In fact, the comment you commented on, was pointing out just how much work figuring out all the domains MS uses would be. In that context, your comment suggesting filtering on specific already known domains when the topic was to find out all the active domains, was -- to be extremely charitable -- naive.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:47PM
As TFS says, once per 30 min.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:26PM
Doth protest too much. Wireshark is easy. It is just like any other program. Tinker for a few minutes. If anything isn't clear just search around and, well, read. What nerds do.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:54PM
I'm a little concerned. I would certainly hope that this is all done through an SSL collection, otherwise usernames, passwords, etc, can be grabbed by basically *anyone* who happens to be along the route. Anyone read TFA.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:19AM
I'm a little concerned that they might actually collect usernames and passwords at all. If they do, that is totally unacceptable, regardless of whether they encrypt the transmission or not.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:39PM
Actually, I would assume that all nerds would see is encrypted data, as TFS mentions that they configured a HTTPS proxy that Microsoft conveniently ignored [Internet Standard, what the fuck are those?]...
(Score: 2) by TheB on Sunday August 23 2015, @01:50AM
Has anyone on SoylentNews tried to verify this yet?
I am interested in finding out if this article is BS or Mircosoft is truly that evil.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:54PM
Well, I hope the kids are happy. Everything the entire personal computing revolution was about, down the drain.
Having control over your own data? Gone.
Having control over the software you are running? Gone.
Being able to do whatever you want with your own processor? Gone.
Not having nosey IT snooping in to your business? Gone.
Lets pull out our VT-100 terminals and lease time on the big iron like it was the 1970s all over again!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by BsAtHome on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:05PM
Although I agree with the sentiment, I cannot agree to the conclusion.
We _can_ have control and it is called "stop using stuff from the bad players". There are plenty of alternatives. It is different, it is enlightenment, it is frustrating and it gives you complete control. Choose wise my friend, choose wise.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:17PM
Seems to me wise people have been saying for thousands of years, cast not your pearls before swine. And for just as long a time, the message is not being received.
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:23AM
Free/Open source software is for anyone and everyone, not just for elitist pricks ;)
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @01:25AM
You are wrong, of course. Free software has always been elitist, as stated in the GNU Manifesto.
GNU, which stands for Gnu's Not Unix, is the name for the complete Unix-compatible software system which I am writing so that I can give it away free to everyone who can use it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:57AM
You are wrong, of course. Free software has always been elitist, as stated in the GNU Manifesto.
GNU, which stands for Gnu's Not Unix, is the name for the complete Unix-compatible software system which I am writing so that I can give it away free to everyone who can use it.
And anyone who can boot a computer can use it.
Making the definition of elite "the top 99+%".
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Sunday August 23 2015, @04:08AM
Of course, Microsoft is in the process of making that *much* more difficult to do.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:29AM
Of course, Microsoft is in the process of making that *much* more difficult to do.
Which is why it needs to be put down and out of everybodies misery.
It may not be a total monopoly, but microsoft is still dominant in the market and it is still abusing its dominance.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Pino P on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:53PM
We _can_ have control and it is called "stop using stuff from the bad players". There are plenty of alternatives.
Not once it becomes common in the industry to lock down Secure Boot on mass market Windows laptops. At that point, there will be one alternative, singular: the MacBook.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:51PM
They all have AMT/vPro/etc
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @01:01AM
Seriously, who's NOT taking your data these days whether you want them to or not? I really want to know.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:32AM
*chuckle*
"it is enlightenment"
https://www.enlightenment.org/ [enlightenment.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:21AM
I would be amazed if the average user does not have hundreds of dollars, if not thousands of dollars, tied up in software that your OS has no alternative to and which simply not run. If you expect users to give up the very software they bought a PC for in the first place why should they even stay on a PC? Why not just grab a cheap tablet and watch YouTube?
The simple fact is FOSS advocates have conditioned themselves to believe that "If a browser and LO and Gimp are enough for me, they are enough for everybody" and that simply is not the case, the reality is the majority of software out there? Doesn't run on your OS or only runs poorly after having jumped through flaming hoops setting up shit like "Wine Bottles" to get it to "kinda sorta" run. People hated Windows ME...yet you gained nothing. People hated Windows Vista...yet you gained nothing. People hated Windows 8...yet you gained nothing...noticing a pattern here? For 22 years you have been giving your product away for free yet have gained nothing...this ain't no conspiracy pal, it ain't no secret cabal from Redmond, its the same thing that happened with all those Linux netbooks, remember those? Folks bought 'em, brought 'em home, found out their software didn't run and promptly brought them back [laptopmag.com] at a rate of 4 to fricking 1! MSFT didn't hold a gun to their head, didn't offer them cash, they bought the netbook to run their software and found out your OS is incompatible and thus was worthless to them, it really is THAT simple!
So you can preach on the mount all you want, but your "offering" is the equivalent of asking people to give up their cars for your spiffy new Llamas...does the Llama do what my car does? Easier to use, maintain, does it have even a single positive OTHER than "its not a car"? Nope? Yeah and you wonder why despite the spying windows 10 got more users in a week than Linux desktops have managed in 22 years.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:35AM
Initially netbooks could not run Windows. Microsoft pressured manufactures to include 160GB Spinning disks rather than 4GB CF cards. This makes the machine slower and more power hungry (but more storage is nice).
Mircosoft also extended Windows XP support Because Vista would not run on the machines. Linux was actually doing something Windows could not.
Thank-you for the link though. I was not aware that Linux netbooks suffered from higher than normal return rates. I doubt there was such confusion before the Windows netbooks became available.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @10:47PM
Linux netbooks suffered from higher than normal return rates
FALSE
Any high return rates on netbooks were due to the wading-in-molasses Windoze boxes [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [oreilly.com]
ASUS CEO says there wasn't enough difference to note. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [ostatic.com]
...and MSI's sales staff (who started spewing this FUD) is a bunch of liars. Surprise!
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday August 23 2015, @04:09PM
I would be amazed if the average user does not have hundreds of dollars, if not thousands of dollars, tied up in software that your OS has no alternative to and which simply not run.
Like what? Especially outside corporate environments.
The only software I see home users spending any money on these days is games (aside from Windows and Office of course), and that's a minority of users. People don't even use TurboTax on their PCs any more, they use web-based tax prep software.
There's a reason iPads were and still are so popular: no one buys software packages for their computers any more, they just do everything on the web.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 23 2015, @11:37PM
Games, picture editing (A LOT of folks are using easy to use tools that come with their printers and cameras, Corel, Creative, just to name a couple) and in my own case? I have a USB AD/DA for use in audio recording, don't work. My audio software I use with the AD/DA that has probably $400 worth of plugins? yeah that don't work either. My $500+ worth of games? Yeah maybe $40 worth and its all the indie crap I got with Humble Bundles I don't care about, my triple A games? yeah they don't work either.
And again you are using the "This is what I need so others don't need anything else" because unless you are in a job that spends a large amount of time dealing with all kinds of customers? Then you just aren't getting a complete picture. Sure if all you talk to is your grandma crowd, who think facebook is the web? Then they can get by fine on a tablet, but if you look at the figures even iPad sales are dropping and I would argue that those pads are ending up in the same place as my tablet did, sitting in a drawer because it doesn't run anything other than a browser, none of my software functions. Meanwhile my 2011 netbook allows me to plug into my digital multitrack, edit my tracks, layer them, and upload them to my friends. of course it runs Windows 7 so all my software works, just as it will work on Windows 10.
And if your theory is correct how do you explain the link I provided that showed Linux netbooks were returned four times more often than Windows netbooks despite Linux having a browser and Open Office and Gimp? I would argue that the answer is obvious, the users have software they wanted to run on that netbook that Linux doesn't run and therefor was worthless as far as their needs were concerned. You may have the best Llama on the planet but if my requirements are to move hundreds of pounds 30+ miles in under an hour? Your Llama, no matter how nice, just isn't suitable for purpose. People stick with Windows because they have Windows software that they require to make that device usable to them, your OS will simply never be a suitable replacement.
In my own case I spent nearly a grand building this PC to perform work as a digital audio workstation using the years of software and plugins I've built up, to play games that I have spent hundreds over the years building up, and to surf the web. I'm sorry to inform you that of those 3 tasks this PC was built for? The ONLY task your OS can do as well as the Windows I have installed is the third one...which can be done just as easily on my phone or tablet. Your OS simply holds no value to me and the numbers show I'm in the majority on this, as what good is a PC if it can't run the software you want to run? Might as well be offering to trade all those new PCs for Atari 800s and Commodore 64s for all the use the users will have for your OS.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday August 24 2015, @02:59AM
Then they can get by fine on a tablet, but if you look at the figures even iPad sales are dropping and I would argue that those pads are ending up in the same place as my tablet did, sitting in a drawer because it doesn't run anything other than a browser,
I disagree. I would argue that the sales are drying up because *everyone who wants an iPad now has one*. Unlike PCs between 1995-2005, where people were constantly upgrading to stay caught up with technology because software kept getting slower and hardware kept getting so much faster, things aren't moving like that any more, and if you're just using your tablet to surf the web and other light work, it likely still works just fine, so why do you need to buy another? Maybe a bunch of people have upgraded their iPad1s to iPad2s, but it's probably plateaued now, and the market is saturated. The only people buying them now are people who broke theirs, or who are hard-core users who just gotta have the latest and greatest, along with a small number of new users.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday August 24 2015, @07:14AM
You have ignored the question, allow me to again highlight it...if your theory is correct how do you explain Linux netbooks being returned four times more than Windows netbooks because I'm betting you will continue to just bring anecdotes because IMHO the return rate is the perfect example of how your OS is of no use to the vast majority.
Again lets take myself as an example, I sank nearly a grand on this PC, FX8320E with 16GB of RAM, R9 280 3GB, 6TB of HDDs with an SSD boot, and a 27in 1080P monitor to display the results. This PC was built to do audio/video composition and editing, play a large library of AAA titles and surf the web...now what can your OS offer me? It can only do one of those tasks, the one that can just as easily be done by a $50 tablet. My AD/DA doesn't work, my recording software with the years of plugins don't work (there have been some attempts with Wine to make the big audio recording software work, but the latency makes it a pointless exercise) and the vast majority of my games will not work, not to mention the fact that on its best day Linux graphical driver stack is a bad joke, with only a handful of really old games (like Valve's HL2 series) actually running faster than on Windows, the rest? Your graphics stack would make my $150 GPU run like the $60 GPU it replaced.
And believe me I'm pretty far from being atypical, in fact its an extremely rare case that a customer that has me build them a new PC or who asks me to wipe theirs and start anew doesn't bring me a list of software or more often a stack of discs for me to install. Hell the 73 year old guy that bought an HTPC from me a few weeks ago brought no less than 4 discs, MS Office 2013 (because while being retired he still does occasional consulting for his former company and they do everything through Outlook), a calendaring program he prefers to keep track of dates, and 2 games for his grandkids...wanna guess how many of those worked on Linux?
I know truth sometimes hurts but the simple fact is that Linux holds no value to the majority because their software won't run and again what use is an OS if it won't run the programs you bought a PC to run in the first place?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday August 24 2015, @06:22PM
I keep hoping that SteamOS will take off and crush the behemoth that is Microsoft. We'll see soon enough, but it will highly depend on developers getting their games on the Linux platform. I would gladly run SteamOS on my main machine, if 95% + of my games worked on it. The problem is that currently only about 10% or so of my games work on Linux, excluding the older titles. Sure, there may be portion of people stuck with Windows due to specific hardware / software, but you get my games on SteamOS and I won't look back. I can build a decent gaming machine for $600 to $700 with MS Windows. Building a gaming machine to run SteamOS instead of Windows drops the price tag $120. I don't know about you, but I would love to spend that extra $120 on a second drive or something. Though, again, it's still just not quite there yet. Makes me think of the newer, better battery, that will totally revolutionize my devices, but I'm still using AAs, AAAs, etc . . .
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday August 24 2015, @10:02PM
If you wanna make wishes? Wish that the Linux devs would get off their high horses and invest serious time in ReactOS as that and ONLY that would have a chance at killing Windows because there is simply too great a sunk cost in Windows software now.
Lets say that SteamOS gets 100% of games working (never gonna happen and the Linux driver stack is still a mess, thus hurting framerates) that would take care of only one out of the 3 use cases for this PC, and not even the most important one. I bet if you talk to ANY of the PC gamers and you'll find there is more than just games they are running, be it productivity, video recording (quite popular as a LOT of gamers are recording their plays and reviewing the games on YouTube) team chat programs, there is a ton of stuff other than games that the gamers run and if it doesn't run? Again Linux might as well be FreeDOS for all the use the end user will get from it.
OTOH if you get ReactOS up and running, with API/ABI compatibility so that programs all think they are running on Windows and a Win 7 skin to seal the deal? I know a LOT of people, myself included, that would be happy to flip MSFT the bird and jump ship. I mean for fucks sake look at Windows 10, it might as well be called "Windows Big Brother Edition" for all the spying that shit does, think folks WANT to be spied upon? Think they WANT to have their data and bandwidth stolen so MSFT can make a few Shekels? Not a chance in hell, people are tied of their shit but at this point they simply have too much money sunk into software that doesn't work anywhere else.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 25 2015, @12:16AM
Why would Linux people want to work on ReactOS? That's like wondering why Mac developers don't switch to Windows: they *don't like the platform*. So they're certainly not going to want to mess around with a clone of it. I already have to use Windows a little bit at work, and it's a painful experience because the platform is so poorly designed and doesn't have any of the software I want; why would I want a clone of it? Just because it's free? No thanks.
What would make more sense is getting WINE to work better, but that's not that easy.
You keep going on and on and on and on about gamers. If you're a gamer, Linux probably isn't the platform for you, just like MacOS isn't. Apple seems to do just fine without courting the hardcore gamers.
As for the Linux driver stack, from what I've read, many times Linux beats Windows in framerates, but it's really dependent on the particular drivers. AMD drivers seem to really suck, and Nvidia's seem to be the best if you need absolute performance, but of course they're proprietary, but the distros have gotten pretty good these days at making dealing with them a seamless experience, or so I've read. Intel's drivers work just great, but of course those won't help you if you're looking for serious performance, but for more mild usage they're usable; Intel's GPUs are constantly getting better.
I mean for fucks sake look at Windows 10, it might as well be called "Windows Big Brother Edition" for all the spying that shit does, think folks WANT to be spied upon?
No, they realize most of their users are just like you, they absolutely refuse to leave the Windows platform, no matter how much Microsoft abuses them. I mean, if it came down to a choice between abandoning your investment in software and switching platforms, or using Windows 10 and having all your personal data not only sent off to MS, but also an ironclad legal license agreement that allowed them to do whatever they want with that data, including selling it to Chinese hackers so they can hack into your bank accounts and steal your money, which would you choose? (Assume that sticking with an old version of Windows isn't possible.) As for an "investment" in software, you have heard of the sunk cost fallacy, haven't you?
Finally, about netbooks, I dunno, but I don't even see people buying Windows netbooks these days, the whole market for them seems to be dead. People probably returned the Linux ones because they didn't understand what they were buying and freaked out when it was slightly different than the Windows experience they were used to. It's not like you can actually play any Windows games on a netbook anyway.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday August 25 2015, @03:49PM
Again you ignore the most important fact which if the software doesn't run your OS is useless and working in a shop I can tell you that everybody, from that 16 year old kid getting his first rig to the 73 year old guy I recently built an HTPC for all have tons of software that your OS simply will not run.
And get ready for the screams but fuck it, truth is truth...wanna know what Linux desktop software in 2015 reminds me of? You ever go to a site like Chinabuye where they have cheap knock offs like the "Wii Me" and "Polystation 4"? Because THAT is what Linux desktop software in 2015 is, its a "true believer" trying to convince you that Gimp can compete with Photoshop, Audacity can compete with Sonor (And Reason, and Acid Pro), that GnuCash can compete with Quickbooks...its sad really, as the absolute best you have to offer can't compete with commercial software from a decade ago but that is simply the truth. and forget games, hell you name the field, financial, medical, business, DTP, audio/visual creation, in every single one in every single metric other than price (again like Chinabuye) your software is simply inferior and in most cases EXTREMELY inferior, as in "can't compete with releases from the late 90s on features" kinda inferior!
So you wanted to know why you need ReactOS to run? Because the answer is simple, if given the choice of running inferior software or using Windows 10 people ARE gonna choose the latter, and if you don't get your numbers up but quick? Well in a couple years MSFT will just get the OEMs to lock UEFI "for security reasons" and you'll be stuck trying to use a Raspberry Pi for a desktop as Apple,MSFT, and Google simply split the market. All three will spy on you, all three will copy all your data, and there won't be a damned thing you can do about it...reason enough for you?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday August 30 2015, @02:42AM
o you wanted to know why you need ReactOS to run? Because the answer is simple, if given the choice of running inferior software or using Windows 10 people ARE gonna choose the latter, and if you don't get your numbers up but quick? Well in a couple years MSFT will just get the OEMs to lock UEFI "for security reasons" and you'll be stuck trying to use a Raspberry Pi for a desktop as Apple,MSFT, and Google simply split the market. All three will spy on you, all three will copy all your data, and there won't be a damned thing you can do about it...reason enough for you?
No, that's not enough reason to bother working on a project I have no interest in. I don't want to use Windows, nor do I want to use a clone of it. There's no way in hell I'd want to help build a clone of it; that's like building a car that looks exactly like a Pontiac Aztek for a car guy. There's a reason other FOSS projects (like the Linux kernel and distros) have tons of developer support, and ReactOS doesn't: no one wants to work on it.
As for a RPi desktop, we can keep using existing PCs indefinitely. This isn't the 90s when a 5-year-old PC was too slow; software isn't getting any slower (unless you're running Adobe crapware maybe), and PCs aren't getting any faster, only more energy efficient. You can already use ARM chips as desktops anyway. The Linux users will just do one or the other, they're not going back to Windows. The Windows users will just continue to put up with MS's shenanigans and complain about them while continuing to do the same thing, expecting a different result. You can't save addicts; they have to want to change.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 30 2015, @06:06AM
LOL use existing desktops forever....hate to break the news to ya but motherboards have caps and traces and those WILL die, no matter how well you baby your system. Now some will die sooner, some might make it to the decade mark, but as someone who has had to buy NOS computers for clients whose software wouldn't run on newer systems I can tell ya the stuff is thinning out VERY quickly and nearly all died from either caps popping or traces breaking from heat cycling.
So I hope you are good with a soldering gun, have your own reflow oven, and can make a new motherboard because what you have, especially if its originally designed for consumer or SMB instead of industrial, WILL die and the only question is when and when it does? Then you are stuck, just try looking up prices on AM2 (not +) or 423 boards, they are nearly all gone and the ones left are pretty expensive.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:57AM
hate to break the news to ya but motherboards have caps and traces and those WILL die
Huh? Electrolytic caps are easily replaced. Lots of small businesses popped up doing just that when the Capacitor Plague hit. Bad caps are still a problem because of crappy Chinese caps, but again they're easily replaced for a few bucks. Traces don't die. Traces are copper. The only way for them to "die" is if they get damaged somehow. Leaky caps don't usually cause that much damage; the cap normally fails, causing the equipment to malfunction, before anything catastrophic happens.
What eventually will kill the computer is electromigration in the ICs. But you're looking at decades for that to happen, if not longer.
and nearly all died from either caps popping or traces breaking from heat cycling.
You couldn't just replace the caps? You don't know how to use a soldering iron?
Traces don't "break" from heat-cycling on any decent PCB. Even if they did, it's possible to fix them with mod-wire as long as they aren't some high-speed serial link or something. Again, this is not a problem on any decent PCB that I've ever heard of; I've never even seen this. But I've seen lots of boards die from caps, and fixed a few when it was worth it.
So I hope you are good with a soldering gun, have your own reflow oven
Who the fuck uses a "soldering gun"? That's something they used in the 1950s before PCBs were invented. This alone shows you know nothing about soldering.
And yes, I do have both a temperature-controlled soldering station and a reflow oven.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Tuesday August 25 2015, @04:04PM
I have been following ReactOS for about a decade. They have improved things greatly in the meantime, but it is extremely slow going. They are open source and I think that's the only reason Microsoft hasn't snuffed them out, yet. Whenever I even mention ReactOS in FOSS circles it's usually shot down immediately. Personally, I applaud what ReactOS is doing. Though, I haven't actually put my money where my mouth is and backed their kickstarter or even bought a flash drive from their shop. ReactOS could be something great, a free Windows Clone that just works. What I really want it to be able to do is run all of my old windows software natively. That's something that Microsoft hasn't gotten right and I don't know that they have any incentive to get it right. Microsoft is quickly becoming a "social OS" and likely morphing into a "subscription based service". That is a model that I have hated as a gamer and as a consumer. Certain things work well as a "subscription based service" like Netflix which provides a library of videos I don't have to purchase. My Operating System shouldn't require me to spend $10, $20, $30+ a month or year to work. I shouldn't need to worry about my OS being the Malware on my computer. Windows has been notorious for it's security issues, but to my knowledge they haven't been actively Sabotaging your computer. Having a Keylogger that sends all of your keystrokes anywhere outside of your control is by default Sabotage / Malware. I expect for my messages I type in Steam, Facebook, Twitter, to have at least some interaction with those services. The data I type on my keyboard Shouldn't Ever be sent to Microsoft by Default or as a part of "standard practice" to improve quality / service. I am waiting for Windows to actually come out with hopefully something as good as or better than Windows 7. Assuming, they don't ever, Windows 7 could be the last Windows I ever use.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday August 30 2015, @02:35AM
Whenever I even mention ReactOS in FOSS circles it's usually shot down immediately.
How so?
Personally, I think people should work on whatever projects they want to work on. If some people want to spend their free time making a Windows clone, more power to them. I wouldn't waste my time doing that, though, because I don't actually like Windows, so why would I want to make a clone of it? If I did like Windows, I'd just buy a copy of it; it's not *that* expensive. If I had a bunch of free time to spend on FOSS work for free, it'd be doing things *I* am interested in; maybe it'd be contributing to KDE, and cloning some select bits and pieces from Windows that I do like (it's not *all* bad...), but it sure wouldn't be with the goal of making a clone. I don't care much for GM cars either, but if I were an automotive engineer I'm sure I could find something in them I liked and wanted to copy, but that doesn't mean I want to make a car that looks as ugly as an Aztek.
I suspect most FOSS contributors are similar. They work on things that interest them; they're not trying to make a better Windows. There's a reason all the FOSS desktop environments have diverged significantly from both Windows and MacOS, while copying bits and concepts from both.
What I really want it to be able to do is run all of my old windows software natively.
I'd like a lot of things, but I don't expect people to spend millions of man-hours giving them to me for free. If they do (like with Linux, or DD-WRT), that's great, but I don't feel entitled to it, just lucky there's so many people willing to contribute to a project I like.
My Operating System shouldn't require me to spend $10, $20, $30+ a month or year to work. I shouldn't need to worry about my OS being the Malware on my computer.
You shouldn't, but apparently you do. As long as you give MS power by patronizing them, they're going to do whatever they can. The only way to break the cycle is to pull your support. But as long as so many people keep sending their money to Redmond, because they just *have* to be able to use their Windows apps, MS will keep pulling these shenanigans.
If I had a highly successful business making money hand over fist, and my customers complained about how poorly I treated them, but refused to stop buying from me, why would I bother improving? Where's the incentive?
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:27AM
Have you seen the commercials for Windows 10? It makes me think what a brave new world we are entering.
(Score: 3, Informative) by dentonj on Saturday August 22 2015, @07:56PM
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420 [ycombinator.com]
Discussion about the source article on the Czech website. There are some questions as to whether the claims are reliable and trustworthy.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Bill Dimm on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:52PM
It was reasonable to be skeptical an hour or two after the story broke. Microsoft has now had over a week to refute the story (or at least put out a denial). Why the silence?
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:24AM
Because the consistent use of "neither confirm nor deny" is more effective in the long term.
(Score: 2) by acharax on Sunday August 23 2015, @04:19AM
It's also useful when you're clueless as to what all your various departments are actually up to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:02PM
When I installed the preview builds, and I saw during the OOBE configuration process that Windows would send user inputs to Microsoft by default, I assumed it was doing that for quality improvement purposes because it was a preview, and I assumed that the final product would not continue to collect user inputs. Now that I see nothing has changed, I conclude the preview simply has not ended, the final product has not been released, Windows 10 remains unfinished, and it is not suitable for production use.
(Score: 2) by acharax on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:07PM
It will never be finished, "software as a service" means perpetual alpha.
(Score: 5, Funny) by DECbot on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:48AM
Fuck Beta.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:09PM
If I used dasher, ( http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ [cam.ac.uk] ), a mouse driven predictive text input method; all they'ld ever see is alt-tab, ctrl-C, ctrl-V. They really should snoop and send clipboard contents to the same servers. As spyware, windows 10 is really half baked and incomplete. /sarcasm.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:35AM
Are you sure they don't monitor the text in the clipboard and alternative forms of input? How exactly does dasher interface with the OS anyway? Are you sure it doesn't just emulate a keyboard for its text input, in that case input from it will likely be included with all the other keyboard input.
Dasher may thwart a hardware keylogger, I'm not convinced it would prevent one built into the OS.
(Score: 5, Informative) by number6 on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:22PM
This is one of the best HOSTS lists which attempts to totally blacklist Microsoft from your computer; I did say attempts---read the comments!!
There are 5,721 addresses in this list!! (including the three mentioned in the summary).
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:29PM
You could reduce the size dramatically by simply blocking second-level domains.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:32PM
You don't even know what a hosts file is, do you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:27AM
That statement does not even make sense. Why block a dozen sub-domains when you can block all of them via one line with the parent?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:45AM
Because you can't.
If you understood what a hosts file was and how it works you'd know that.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:30PM
Golly, bro, you so l33t. But if your OS is untrustworthy, why do you trust it to use your hosts file?
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:04PM
But if your OS is untrustworthy, why do you trust it to use your hosts file?
Perhaps that's why the comment in the file says that you should use a 3rd party firewall? I would not use anything less than an external, hardware firewall if there is a need to use Win10 on the network (say, if you are a developer.) I cannot trust the software firewall (that runs on the same box) for exactly the reasons that you pointed out.
I have a Win10 Technical Preview box currently, but I already have plans to wipe it clean and install Mint 17.2 KDE, now that it is available. Android Studio is supposed to work on Linux, and that's all I expect to need. For everything else there is VirtualBox.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:07PM
Windows or Android, choose your evil...
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:12PM
You mean: Share your data with Microsoft or share your data with everyone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @10:06AM
Dude, Google is not "everyone". Besides, as Android is open source, for some devices you can install a clean build without any of Google's crapware. Unfortunately there is no such option for Windows.
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:05PM
I didn't mean Google is everyone, I mean android is so insecure that anyone can... nevermind.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:53PM
Windows or Android, choose your evil...
My Android code is for controlling industrial hardware. Even if Google is evil, there is nothing for them to steal here. My code does not deal with personal information. The customer is not required to connect to the Internet even (the hardware has USB interface.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:53PM
Read the articles. Win 10 bypasses the hosts file for all of this "telemetry" information. That's rights the IP addresses are already in the code.
(Score: 2) by number6 on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:13PM
Did you read my article aka post? ...All Windows versions since XP-SP2 have had the ability to bypass the hosts file. That's right the IP addresses are already in the code.
The comments in the hosts list I posted shed some light on possible workarounds.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:06PM
I ran into that some time ago when I was wanting to block msn.com. It doesn't matter what you put in the hosts file, it would always connect anyways. Even when other sites would go nowhere.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:36AM
"# You didn't actually use Bing anyway, did you? :)"
On a rare occassion, like when a Soylentnews summary includes a link to Bing Translate, or something like that.
(Score: 1) by NullPtr on Sunday August 23 2015, @07:43AM
If you block this, you block all Microsoft updates to your machine also.
(Score: 2) by number6 on Sunday August 23 2015, @08:04AM
I found a textfile saved on my computer a long time ago (it's a comment posted at a forum around 2006).
I thought it may be of further educational interest to share it with you guys, in situ . . . . . .
"Well in a twisted way it is in your control, but more of an all or nothing way. All these lookups ("Using XP") as an example are priority based. So in a sense you could over-ride those priorities ("Not suggested") here is what I mean:
If you look at this registry key on XP;
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\ServiceProvider
You will see ("If you have the defaults"):
DNSPRIORITY: 2000
HOSTSPRIORITY: 500
LOCALPRIORITY: 499
NAME: TCP/IP
NETBTPRIORITY: 2001
PROVIDORPATH: %SystemRoot%\System32\wsock32.dll
The lower the priority ("If found there") trumps anything higher. Problem is, Microsoft is nervous with their domain names and would much rather trust DNS in all cases, no matter what you would like your other domain names to resolve by.
So, if you were to use these priorities which are default they would work like this in this case, minus Microsoft Domains:
1. Local DNS Cache
2. Host file
3. ICS ("Depending on if you use it") hosts.ics
4. DNS
5. Wins
6. blah blah blah
So imagine if somehow your DNS cache was hacked, and redirected Microsoft sites to another IP, you would be SCREWED in that case without this code in place. Since DNS cache is used prior to the host file based on the default priorities."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @08:55PM
Can you say "HIPPA violation"? I have advised all of my clients, especially those in the healthcare and/or insurance industries, to avioid Win 10.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:03PM
Smile and nod, quietly putting you on the shit list.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:46PM
Enterprise editions of Win10 are reported not to do the keylogging that consumer-grade editions do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:08AM
For having clients in the industry, you'd think you'd know the correct acronym.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:00PM
In what capacity do you serve your clients? Barista? Oooh, no, wait, let me guess, "Do you want fries with that?"
(Score: 2) by seeprime on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:57PM
So Windows as a service means that Microsoft is collecting information that corporations can buy and governments can collect to track the citizen minions. The "as a service" part is pure bullshit. I still buy Windows OEM licenses to install on new PC's. It's not free at all. The users getting "free" upgrades are paying a price in ads, and crapware apps, which we remove on our customer computers. The additional information is equivalent to theft of user data. It is not a service that benefits the consumer at all. This is very disappointing and if Microsoft doesn't clarify what the hell they are doing the Linux desktop/laptop user base will continue to grow above the current 1.8%.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:50AM
People will just roll over and accept it.
My previous employer, a biege box retailer, used to tell customers that Apple and Linux customers were disappearing because they were all so jealous of Microsoft's success that they wrote most of the malware for Microsoft Windows, and were all going to jail.
Mind you, he also proved (to himself) that Firefox was just a front-end for Internet Explorer. (I asked him how I could cross-compile for Windows from Linux, if I had no Internet Explorer libraries to tie into, and his response was that he didn't care, he had proved it.)
Anyway, people believe without question what he says because he's been doing it for so long (around 20 years).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:01AM
There is a theory out there that firefox doesn't even really exist, but is just a theme for IE? So all this hubbub about firefox means nothing? What were the provings?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:43AM
It's not really a theory to anybody but this particular guy.
He was having problems connecting to websites in Firefox, so he claims he reset IE and that fixed it.
It's worth mentioning that this shop owner doesn't understand exactly how 10.1.1.x and 192.168.1.x differ. He's a legend in his own mind, willing to rip people off in the name of his religion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:53AM
...I got distracted halfway through my writings, and forgot to mention that it's most likely he reset the TCP stack for Windows.
The guy is currently battling me over an aftermarket heatsink, telling me the graphics subsystem on my old mainboard was damaged by the aftermarket heatsink I installed when my i7 reached 98 degrees celsius. You see, the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, according to this guy, "modifies the ZIF socket" and the moment I installed it I baked the system, even though I ran it for 18 months without a problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @09:59PM
you've rewarded them with your money for previous versions, now it's time to take it up the ass.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:18PM
If you add...
"oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
pre.footprintpredict.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com"
to the routers website filter and choose "deny access to these websites" will that work?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:49PM
I tested that, then tried to ping the address. It won't ping, but don't know if that router setting is for both inbound and outbound. If it's only inbound then it's still sending the info but not getting a response back.
(Score: 1) by massa on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:13PM
I think you should resolve the names and block the addresses on the firewall, too.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:21AM
I think you should resolve the names and block the addresses on the firewall, too.
If you keep Windows Update enabled, it can change those addresses. Are you going to reverse engineer every DLL in Windows after every update? Who has time for that? Worse still, even if educated users do so, the majority will not. They will be playing with their flashy gadgets and point fingers at us, new luddites, because we only use computers that we personally built and programmed. Until that is made illegal or impossible, of course - like if every ISP requires crypto authentication of the endpoint, and only MS has the key. You don't think that it's likely?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:25PM
Color me skeptical, because hasn't every tech news outlet been running wireshark since the beta period looking for a story like this? If Win10 was sending every keystroke to MS ... or even anything like it ... wouldn't someone in the clickbait world have reported on this already?
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:31PM
Yes, it's been four hours since this story was posted which means that Windows has phoned home eight times: where are the people who have verified this? I don't have Windows 10 so I can't do it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:35PM
They have [duckduckgo.com]
(Score: 2) by tibman on Sunday August 23 2015, @01:47AM
My work machine is win10 now, i'll see what it's up to.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 4, Informative) by tibman on Sunday August 23 2015, @02:50AM
Bleh, network stuff. I let the machine settle for 10 min before looking at any traffic.
So far i had a random communication with watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net. My machine started the talk then negotiated a TLS connection and sent a few KB of whatever. Google says watson is used to report crashes. Well.. that machine has just been sitting there watching me lurk and drink beer.
I opened the start menu and it resolved store-images.microsoft.com. Looking closer now. I suck at this stuff and may go drink instead, we'll see.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 4, Informative) by tibman on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:30AM
SearchUI.exe contacts 23.204.0.42 and gets some details about omniroot.com and public-trust.com. Certificate stuff i guess. Because a TLS connection starts and they talk for a bit.
Something similar happens with vortex-hk2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net. A request is made from my computer. Some cert stuff comes over then a TLS connection starts.
Ditto with onesettings-cy2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net. This one goes off pretty often: 10:07p, 10:22p, 10:37p, 10:52p, 11:07p.
weather.microsoft.com, finally something i can read! An http request for apex/DesktopTile/PreInstallLiveTile. It does look like i have some weather thing in the start menu too. Er, had.
My verdict is who the hell knows what win10 is sending to microsoft. Connections are made every 10 minutes or so to send encrypted data. Maybe someone who actually knows what they are doing can make better sense of it.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:39AM
Interesting. You can be almost certain that you're not allowed to look at what's being sent, even if it is your own data.
(Score: 2) by gman003 on Sunday August 23 2015, @11:47PM
Have you disabled all of the relevant telemetry options? They have a setting for "Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future", which seems like it could send exactly what is being described as being sent if not disabled. It's still kind of a suspicious move but if you can disable it trivially through settings (IIRC you're even prompted during installation), it's clearly a different matter than it's being described as.
I'd check myself to confirm but I honestly wouldn't know what I was doing with Wireshark.
(Score: 3, Informative) by tibman on Monday August 24 2015, @01:52AM
I do remember opting out during the "upgrade" but other than that it is fairly stock. I just checked and the "Send your device data to microsoft" option is set to Enhanced. Apparently that is less than Full(Recommended). The lowest option is basic... there is no off! The only thing installed on there is visual studio 2015 (and all the baggage required to do MVC5) and steam.
I recommend against using any network traffic tool. It'll blow your foil hat right off and darken the mood.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ayn Anonymous on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:20PM
Who want bet how long it takes until someone is successful in a DNS attack of the MS data collecting server ?
[ ] 1-4 weeks
[ ] 1-3 month
[ ] 3-6 month
[ ] 6-12 month
[ ] 12+ month
This is the holy grail in computer hacking !
Imagine the reward if you are successful: Millions of fullz (google it). $$$$$$$
MS of course ignore the latest research in DNS bit squatting. http://dinaburg.org/bitsquatting.html [dinaburg.org]
Get the Bitsquat Domain NOW ! Collect the world wide Windows 10 keyboard traffic RIGHT NOW.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:12PM
What would make you think the NSA hasn't already done so? I mean why guess solely in the future with no evidence it hasn't already happened?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:48PM
Im sure soon. When?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:54PM
I'm just wondering if windows 10 is looking around on other LAN computers and digging for gold on them too. I have a shared folder on my Linux box that is none of M$ business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:10AM
Ubuntu has had similar spyware (although no keylogging) since before M$ believed it to be cool.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:47AM
That can be removed or disabled with a little work, which is what I do as soon as installing Ubuntu.
(Score: 2) by wantkitteh on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:54AM
The definition of spyware is highly dependent on who's computer you're talking about. Ubuntu's privacy issues aren't in the same league as this - hell, they aren't even the same game, Microsoft has practically invented a brand new game just to have a league of it's own with this crap.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by https on Saturday August 22 2015, @11:51PM
I just had a thought on why the MS Office ribbon is so useless - they collected telemetry from people so dumb they didn't uncheck the "monitor me" box.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by acharax on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:30AM
It's not just the ribbon, their telemetry nonsense is also behind the removal of the start menu.
Other companies such as Google and Mozilla are using similar statistics to justify axing features they don't want to maintain any longer. It's really a self-fulfilling prophecy, rely on a feature only a computer illiterate user will leave enabled and you have free reign to remove everything you don't want to maintain from the code base (with the excuse that nobody is using it - because none of the people you monitor do). In Google's case they removed a tool that they first burried under a submenu (where nobody that didn't already know it existed would look for it) and surprise surprise a few month after moving it to the submenu they remove it completely because "nobody was using it" (I'm talking about the ability to download full cached copies of PDF files if anyone wonders).
In Microsoft's case they employed this with the start menu to justify removing it entirely, they made it more and more convoluted since 9X - in XP you had the option to change it back to classic mode and disable all of the "smart" features, in 7 people just pinned the couple or so programs they frequently use to the top of the menu so the remainder of the menu fell into disuse where average users were concerned - when they later decided to shove their tablet interface down everyones' collective throat these usage statistics doubtlessly came in very handy.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:14AM
They need to take everyone doing research right now and have them write "Just because the null hypothesis is false does not mean my preferred explanation is correct." 100k times. Give them a year, its only ~300 a day. Shut down all government funding of research by people who have not done that and require that as homework before getting any grant. The same money can be used as a stipend for that year.
(Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Sunday August 23 2015, @05:25PM
100000aJust because the null hypothesis is false does not mean my preferred explanation is correct.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @08:15PM
Um... the entire windows 8 gui was described as being based on the telemetry data from users that were too dumb to disable the feedback.
Most of the great ideas going into MS products were based on the fact that the people that had a clue disabled the reporting, and the people that didn't... had backgrounds of icons in the shape of a penis. www.thewebsiteisdown.com explains this very well, and is from long before windows 8.
I think the discovery that the ribbon made it hard to disable feedback is a few years too late.
What I want to know is how in my task scheduler, all sorts of client experience feedback stuff that I never opted into was enabled and reporting daily. I can assure you, the ribbon did not prevent me from saying no. The problem is that I do not recall being asked if I'd like to report my activities on a daily basis.
(Score: 3, Informative) by chewbacon on Sunday August 23 2015, @01:40AM
Upon installing Windows, the user is asked about such options. They can let Microsoft enable everything or click the option in the fine print to configure themselves. There is an option to send stylus and key strokes to Microsoft to "improve the user experience." I turned it off.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:31AM
Is it really off? Something worth checking.
(Score: 3, Informative) by physicsmajor on Sunday August 23 2015, @04:02PM
It is NOT off. You can disable some, but not all of this behavior. This is clear not only by investigations done by various parties, but also in their own freaking EULA they tell you if you don't want these "features" your only recourse is to scour the OS completely off your box.
(Score: 1) by vali.magni on Sunday August 23 2015, @04:23AM
Going by microsoft's long and colorful history, I would treat windows 10 as spyware until unless proven otherwise. With their new approach to black box updates, god knows what's inside them and what data they are scraping from your machines to siphon back to the mothership.
Try to find their privacy contact email address - good luck to you - this is a clear indication of their attitude to privacy ("the user can suck it, ha ha").
Vote with your wallets, stop supporting these companies who build their business through violating your privacy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @05:03AM
i dunno but only nerds are paranoid.
your regular person showers, brushes their teeth,, dresses in nice fresh clothes and speaks and acts with good manners.
this new windows 10 should be viewed as a new global interface for "audition to fame".
the smart camera w/ assistant that monitors your behavior (see above) and will dispense "stars" to smart, polite and beautiful people.
this is your chance! you will go far! don't fight the system (that owns all the 99% money), embrace it!!!
not smart? nevermind! you can still be pretty! there's always need to put that bikini on something on that yacht ^_^.
maybe banks can make a special investment offers (w/ windows 10 data) for the above cases where IQ doesn't keep up with looks.
i reckon there will be a slew of new-wealthy clients to come ...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @05:15AM
idiot!
everybody knows that nerds buy TWO windows 10 licenses.
the first win 10 is configured as a proxy.
the second one uses the first one as a proxy, this way the encryption data from the first one goes to the second one-is-proxy which then encrypt-it again, thus sending doubely encrypted data, which de-crypted on the other end will only yield encrypted data from the first (too which the decryption key is missing), thus filling up their telemetry data base with useless encrypted data from the first.
^_^
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @07:00AM
Perhaps it would be worthwhile, determining the encryption methods and so forth, and just load them up with masses of data (Project Gutenberg texts, random numbers and letters).
Let 'er rip, lads and ladies!
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 23 2015, @06:01AM
So why is it newsworthy NOW and it wasn't then?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 4, Touché) by janrinok on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:31AM
Hairyfeet, if you don't read the stories that we publish, especially when you submitted it, then you really shouldn't complain that you missed the earlier story. :)
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday August 23 2015, @09:44AM
And it appeared here after the merge.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @08:17PM
We at least are bringing the concerns back to the surface. It seems that the mainstream press, both IT and otherwise -- gloss over these things.
Soon, anyone not using Google/Apple/Microsoft for an OS will be IT terrorists because they will have "gone dark". And if they don't have a facebook account, heaven forbid they get pulled over for a speeding ticket without having a social media account up to date... because that will end up all over the news that the latest cop mortality statistic was mentally ill and probably shouldn't have been allowed outside without medication.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 23 2015, @11:48PM
After it had already left the front page so not two shits would be given and nobody would see it...why even bother?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday August 24 2015, @07:48AM
Sorry Hairyfeet, I don't suppose anyone here meant to post a Dupe.
You submitted your story at the same time as 2 others made their contributions on the same subject; it is normal for us to merge stories in this way and you were given full attribution for your submission, it is indicated as accepted in your submission list, and you were awarded the karma.
Unless an every editor can be on here 7 days a week then it is just as difficult for us to know which stories have been posted and which have not yet been covered. We have the same tools available to us ('search' from the menu) as you have. Unless we use precisely the same keywords the search engine often does not locate similar stories. Furthermore, as we read both accepted and rejected submissions, we can have problems remembering whether a new submission is a dupe of a story that was previously declined and therefore worth consideration in its own right. I can only apologise for the Dupe, but it seems to have gathered enough comments to justify it anyway.
My previous post was said with a grin - obviously that got lost in the translation, so to speak. There was no intended criticism of any of your submissions or comments. JR.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday August 24 2015, @12:01PM
A word of advice...if its off the front page? Please don't even bother, time was wasted for ZERO gain. Once it is gone from the front page it might as well not exist so there really is no point in bothering at that point, it servers no purpose whatsoever. As for dupes...does this site not have a functional search? Surely one could simply type "Windows 10" and found out if the same article had been posted before, hell one could probably write a script that looks at the links and see if those links have already been posted previously.
Its a computer friend, let the computer do the work and find the dupes FOR you instead of doing it yourself.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 26 2015, @03:24AM
Well, here's one anecdote that says you're wrong, Hairy. I regularly read back beyond the front page, as I don't always visit SN daily.
Not that you'll see this, only browsing at +2...
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday August 23 2015, @11:39PM
So you published a dupe AFTER the main one had already used up the comments....DAFuq? I thought we were trying to get AWAY from the /. dupe-o-rama?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday August 24 2015, @07:50AM
(Score: 2, Insightful) by SDRefugee on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:27PM
That Windows 10 also collects video from any connected webcam and audio from any connected microphone and ships it off to Microsoft.. If that isn't the DEFINITION of spyware, I don't know what IS.. I'm soooo glad I moved all of my home systems over to Linux back around 2011. I'm sort of the neighborhood "tech support", and I've already had several neighbors ask me what I think of Windows 10 and I tell them to stay with Windows 8.1 or 7, whichever you have, unless you want *your* business to become MS's "business"... I hope the corporations slap MS silly over this crap, but I suspect it won't happen as I'm betting the "enterprise" version of Windows 10 doesn't have this crap in it, only the home and pro, which you and I, the unwashed multitudes CANNOT get.... I'll go on record here with this... FUCK YOU MICROSOFT...
America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..